The Crisis, Reality, Love post was meant to introduce a series of posts on this freakishly interesting theme that is about to become relevant for everyone when Saturn hit Libra in hard aspect to Pluto. I have a lot of ideas to cover and if I want to manage I am going to have to forgo trying to write for babies!
By that I mean you are just going to have to be smart enough to know I am not judging people here but reporting on sensitive subjects so we can turn this stuff up. Also, I want people to be able to make remarks that might draw fire or judgment on other forums because they represent thing (thoughts or feelings) that could be considered “taboo”.
Now I was in a relationship once and the guy just could not understand, Christopher Reeve’s wife. “What is she doing for dick?” he asked. “Why doesn’t she leave him?”
He acknowledged that clearly there was a reason, this… ah, this love thing, however he did not have it. He just did not have the quality of love that would have him stay in a relationship with someone who had suffered a crippling accident, nor would he expect anyone to stay with him. Disfigurement? Same thing.
Now I was felt otherwise and said so. I had no problem understanding, Dana Reeve and we had several very deep conversations about this. if he sounds simple-minded or coarse, he was neither. He just simply would not continue a relationship with a one-legged woman, there was a limit to his love or his ability to transcend or whatever you want to call it and I quite respected his willingness to say so.
Now I am with the soldier and he is like me. He will never leave me. If I lose all my hair and arms and legs and act bitchy, he will still be here and not only that, he will still love me. If I gain 500 pounds and have to be buried in a piano box… he is going to be my husband and I feel the same way about him.
It happens we both have Venus mashed with Neptune so we can transcend anything. Our love goes on and on and on and on and you can see how this ties to the other post and it leaves a lot of questions. For example do you think one type person belongs with the other?
The other day I was talking to satori and she said she did not think it was “real” unless both people were equally committed and that made a lot of sense. Here are some questions…
Does your love have limits?
What are they?
How do you feel about unequal devotion?
I also have venus neptune. If I love truly, some accident or deformity or other loss aint gonna scare me off. Lose out on a real love (I also have venus saturn)? No way–
I can’t do the unrequited love thing anymore by the way. I have venus in leo and need to be appreciated.
So my love does have limits: it needs to be reciprocal and understood.
I have Venus-Uranus in Sagittarius, and tons of Libra. I’ll transcend happily, but with someone with an equally strong personality.
My mom has a tight Venus-Neptune conj and she’ll nurse any love through tough times… sadly, she’s wasted it on people who don’t deserve her efforts.
I wouldn’t stay with someone that didn’t love or treat me well. So if I’m with you, I’m with you. I wouldn’t leave you because you became sick or disabled.
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I love this thread. I think I have a reasonably high ability to transcend. I know my husband does.
If I loved somebody and they loved me I would like to think that I would stick around. The other blog post refers to someone who isn’t being treated very well by the sick party … and I would not stay for that.
I think I have too much Saturn to not be bound to do the “right” thing.
It depends. I had a schizophrenic boyfriend when I was 19 – I had to have him committed. I visited him a few times, but decided (and told him honestly) it was too much for me to deal with. There weren’t any hard feelings between us. I resented his mom for a while, for letting me struggle through the whole process on my own when I was so clueless. Now I understand she’d been the one to do it so many times herself, she was probably tired. But I was green as the Spring grass and it was a Hell of a ride for me.
My husband, I have no question of this. We’re here, period.
Having venus conj saturn in cap, it won’t be possible for me to be unloyal. But only if the love I have is totally reciprocated, and i’m sure that person would do the same for me. If not I live quickly with or without accident. I never stood with unreciprocated love! I cannot, would denie my whole self. Dignity and self-esteem, self-love counts much more because if I loose that I loose everything.
I have also Venus quintile neptune.
Elsa, it’s strange, I was also imagining such scenarios for that F**king saturn square pluto. I’m a bit affraid it’s gonna hit hard.
In my next sr, saturn is smack on my sr asc at 2 libra square pluto smack on the 4 cusp ! but they don’t touch any natal planets 🙂 Sr venus(ruler of saturn) is unaspected at 29 scorpio BUT square natal chiron (it’s my chiron return)…and natal uranus ! Scary movie… I’m gonna wear all my grigris…:)
my comment was eaten…..
Sorry. It will probably show up but nothing there yet. They come in batches every 10 min or so (I think).
Thanks for this insightful post. I would like to put myself in the camp of I don’t know how I would respond. Of course, I (and my venus in pisces self) would like to be the til death do us part person, but I have to be honest and also know that there are a complex set of circumstances that surround the decision of “should i stay or should i go”.
One situation that is similar is when one partner has Alzheimers. Sandra Day O’Conner is an example of a wife whose husband has Alzheimers and her husband is in love with another woman at his nursing home, and she has made peace with his new relationship. I have a friend who is in a relationship with a man whose wife has Alzheimers and, while he makes sure his wife is well cared for, he is in another love relationship with my friend. Not so cut and dry.
I am Aries sun/Cap rising and would love your brief insight to impending transit of Saturn in Libra in the 7th and 9th houses.
Thanks so much!
Hell no I wouldn’t leave if you had a physical disability!
Venus in Scorpio. Us Scorpios are committed, TILL DEATH. Ha ha.
I would stay too I have Venus in Cancer trin Neptune in Scorp. This used to be on my mind a lot when I was in my twenties. I dated a guy who was always on and on about my body and how I shoud dress etc. Back then it was Nirvana grunge and I wore bigger clothes even now I am overly modest, anyways I was always thinking this motherf*cker would be gone in a shot if I was in a horrible accident and disfigured. Needless to say that ended, but it is something I ask myself when I was dating.
When I was preg with my daughter I got bells palsey and the right side of my face was paralyzed like something went wrong at the dentist, and people would ask me if I had just come from there. I is something relatively minor I still have residual from it but a lot of people don’t notice it. Thank God for the Venus Neptune thing.
I don’t think I will leave. The more I’m needed, the more it sustains me. So I guess, in the love business, you stay in a situation if it makes you alive for better or for worse.
With my Venus conj Saturn in Cancer and other not so good aspects, lack of reciprocity, one-sided, unrequited love had been the norm for me until I changed my perspective. When I stopped expecting from the other person, then the joy of giving kicked in. I give love because I have to, because it makes me feel alive inside. I stopped making it my problem if the other person loves me back or not or even be at least grateful about it. I’m not being heroic or stupid about this thing. But as it goes, my need to love is akin to my need to survive.
I could say that in this case, I have worked with astrology and befriended with its supposedly nasty effects on me rather than fight with it.
(Thank you for these posts, Elsa. I don’t have any answers, but I’m thinking.)
“So my love does have limits: it needs to be reciprocal and understood.” WERD.
I accept too little, honestly. As long as I’m shown that I’m appreciated at least weekly, I’ll put up with a hell of a lot, including things I probably shouldn’t. *shrugs*
I would stay. I would hope my partner would stay, but I would eventually understand if he didn’t. And I am almost certainly going to find out.
got you SaDiablo
i’m not willing to sell myself short. that’s the only significant limit i can think of, but it’s significant.
unequal devotion… sucks. on both sides, if you care about the other person.
dana reeve makes sense to me. i wouldn’t consider marrying someone who i didn’t think mattered to me that much.
I had a catastrophic accident myself and was the one who left – just on time. Emotional disability can hit harder than any accident. I recovered pretty well since my departure.
My husband and I had this conversation years ago. I told him no matter what happened physically I would always be there, but I could not deal with a severe brain injury/illness. If he wasn’t in there, and couldn’t converse with me or know who I was, I know that I couldn’t deal with that kind of situation.
The mind and emotions is the connection to me. That is the person I fell in love with. The body and physicality was just a bonus.
WOW I love these post and Im looking forward to more of these. I believe I can easily transcend and commit in a situation like this I have an exact Pluto Venus conjunction which is pulled in with saturn and trines neptune. I have thought about this lot but from a different perspective. I myself have a rare heart condition and have already had more than one surgery so far in my life and will need surgery in the future. Im very happy and healthy as I can be and at the moment young & single but I know there are conversations I will have to have in the future with a partner if things get serious and I begin a family. I know I can stay with someone who is sick and I love but also myself being in a position of being the sick one in the scenario I would be hate to have someone I love feel like they would have to stay out of responsibility or obligation. I think that would cut me more.
Hope that makes sense. At the end of the day I suppose it all depends on the two people involved and the actual situation. Great discussion from everyone 🙂
I would like to believe my love transcends
however, I did walk away from my partner with MS.
The turning point for me was uncertainty of his love…when I discovered he was still in frequent almost daily phone contact with his X. She had lost her husband from cancer and my partner had been the nurse at the time. When she learned of the MS…she couldn’t handle it, having lost the first husband. So it was quite a complex scenario. My feeling was he still wanted her but needed me….& do you make exceptions when someone is ill?
Venus in Aries, square Saturn and Jupiter…trine Pluto and Uranus. At this point, I think I can give more as a friend …(Uranus) at least, keep my balance. My love is deep but if the load is heavy, and it most often is (saturn) my venus kicks in and I escape. Nothing I’m proud of….no “A’s” showing up on my report card. Unfinished business… & still working on it.
Thanks for posting, Elsa. So valuable to hear other people’s thoughts on all of this. I was pretty much alone with it for the last few years.
Venus in Pisces in 7th house….sacrifice myself for loved one…you bet!
“For better or worse,
for richer for poorer,
in sickness and in health,
to love and to cherish,
til death do us part.”
I may be old-fashioned, but these words are everything to me….
Wow this is a very deep topic of conversation. Something I have not yet thought about.
I have a 12th house sun and a saturn/neptune signature and a moon in Cancer. It seems like I am very capable of transcendence. I am a very sensitive person, so it is natural for me to love and care for a person regardless what happens to him/her.
My relationship limitation is the lack of reciprocation and the feeling of being “imprisoned” somehow. There were a few instances that men I dated would have me as a committed relationship but still be “looking” for “the one.” I need affection a lot and it’s either you’re in or you’re out. With regards to “imprisonment” – I had to leave an ex because of that feeling. The way he is and his family values are very rigid for me. I could not quite be myself in it so I had to leave, even though he was a good guy. It is one thing to sacrifice a lot for a person when this person appreciates and loves you back, but it is another altogether when your whole being is just drained.
I can’t deal with self-sacrifice worth a damn. My mother is Virgo asc./Pisces moon and adores doing it, and I just don’t understand how it was so pleasurable for her to give up everything to take care of my dad for 10 years. I feel trapped and resentful when forced to be a caregiver, and I start hating the person for being ill (even though they can’t help it, as my mother reminded me a billion times a day). It feels like I am being killed myself, slowly and by inches, to be a caregiver. Odds are high I’ll get punished in future lives big time for this, won’t I?
So realistically speaking, I’d probably be the asshole that leaves, either that or I’m the guilty asshole who stays and hates you for making me stay and die in order to be with you. Great choices, eh? My ex-fiance was likely to be sickly at an early age–he was somewhat sickly when I knew him– and every time I told him I was afraid of what I’d do, he’d blow me off and say everything would be fine. Yeah, probably not.
I am ashamed of this, but I don’t know how not to be angry at being forced to die along with the sick person, either.