People, especially, Scorpios hate ultimatums. If you give a Scorpio an ultimatum, you can pretty much kiss them goodbye. I wonder if it might worthwhile to rethink this.
I had a client whose girlfriend told him that she intends to have children and that if he does not, this is the end of the line for her.
This young woman is smart. I also think she did the young man (in his 20’s) a favor. Her hard line has prompted him to take a serious look at what he wants his future life to look like. He’s headed for his Saturn return, so it’s appropriate. But here is the funny part…
Transiting Saturn was aspecting his Mars. “What do you want to do with your sperm?” I asked. Because that’s the true question.
The astrology is crystalline. He can commit to procreate under this transit… but he could also decide to get a vasectomy!
I don’t think it’s good for people to never be caught in a corner.
It’s good to know, on a deep level, what you do and do not want to do with your energy.
How do you feel about being given an ultimatum?
In this case, I think it was definitely good. Her pressure it making him dig down and discover what he really wants…which will allow him to act with deliberation. It’s not a question he’s asked himself, before. And the timing is definitely, on.
He can also postpone his decision, but it’s advantageous for him to look at this today, because (as I told him), starting a family in your 20’s is different from starting a family in your 30’s. Once you’re in your 30’s, you’re not going back, so you want to make these decisions, consciously, if you’re given the chance. He’s being given the chance.
I dunno. I see this as a total gift from Saturn.
Ya know, I really don’t like ultimatums at all (scorp stellium)….but I can see how sometimes it might be good to be forced to make a choice. ahem…says libra rising.
(before we were married) My husband issued up an ultimatum once. He said we would get married or else. Scorpio Stellium took the or else. I refused to be cornered like that.
We didn’t see each other for 3 months. When I look back at it now I see that even through I missed him we were all the better for it.
It gave me time to really figure out what I wanted and it gave him time to slow down as he was in such a hurry and pressing/rushing me.
We’ve been married 16 years and have been together 20 in April. Guess he knew something I didn’t. I am glad he hung in there but when issued an ultimatum I will run in the other direction even if its good for me.
I have no Scorpio in my chart at all. However, I have a strong independent, rebellious streak (Aquarius rising, plus the placement of Uranus). I balk at any ultimatum &/or effort someone makes to tell me what to do. Even though I do have Libra (Moon), I know almost instantly what I want, when I want it & what I am willing to do to get it. (Mars in Gemini) If the ultimatum doesn’t mesh, I’m fine with walking away.
I’ve trained myself not to react to ultimatums. I figure that you mean what you say. I’m either able to accept your terms, or I am not. If we’re going to part ways, I’d just as soon the reason be on the table, known to all.
I like the sound of that. I’m driven by Scorpio and Saturn, it’s natal. But, aging and the accumulation of experiences, losses, and lessons helps with the training. Can you ‘train’ a Scorpio with Lizard Instincts? Perhaps. It’s a special school … with many windows and doors.
Yep. But if you’re at ultimatum point, I’m probably gone.
That’s how I feel about it as well. I don’t always view my ultimatums as that, but as clearly letting you know where I stand. Either this happens or changes or I will do x. But I try my best not to issue anything like that in the heat of the moment. That has been learned with age, I shot myself in the foot many times when I was younger, both by issuing and reacting to ultimatums. Good post 🙂
I can relate to this entirely.
I feel the Saturn transit on my Scorpio Stellium had the same ultimatum ordeal. It was definitely a blessing.
My posts are not showing up? My browser or am I going into the trash-bin?
Sorry! Spam filter acting up!
Mercury is active. Thanks for clearing that up:)
Ultimatums? No. Look at my name! Plus I have Aquarius rising. However, when that Taurus moon has had Enough I can issue them and walk away…
I don’t have much in the way of Scorp Energy. Scorp in Pluto in the 5H 7 degrees opp. It does trine my Cancer ASC/Mars, though. In the love department? I am fixed, fixed, fixed!
Ultimatums are a pretty much surefire way to get rid of me. I don’t try to change people, and I don’t want them to change me. We’re either compatible, or we’re not. We either work through everything as a team, or we don’t. If we’re not and we don’t… then on to the next.
@orchidchild, that’s awesome! i love that confidence. “we’re either compatible or not!” yup. dont change people, let them do things on their own. Freedom of choice.
You say you don’t want ultimatum’s however your preference for someone either liking you or not is exactly that.
“I don’t think it’s good for people to never be caught in a corner. I do think it’s good to know, on a deep level, what you do and do not want to do with your energy.”
Ultimatum situations place enormous stress on me, but I’ve found them not so bad, even useful, at least in hindsight. I tend toward waiting and long contemplation before making decisions (Libra Mars and Mercury), and ultimatums can simplify that process by forcing a decision.
Like the Peter Tosh song, “Stop that train, I’m leaving. It won’t be too long, whether I’m right or wrong.”
At least it helps a person see where the other stands but I have trouble seeing it as a go/no-go opportunity. I definitely don’t like being pushed, even if it is truly for my own good. Maybe I’d be better off if I got past that. I can see where it might be an advantage to use the energy to point myself in a positive direction. If someone just wants to bend me to their will though, forget it. They are toast.
Scorpio stellium and I don’t dislike ultimatums I just find them hard to take. To me it always come back to the self. What do I want to do? Do I want to live their life with them and compromise or do I want my own and build my own? And depending upon the situation I chose either, myself or them.
Sometimes in life you have to give people ultimatums because otherwise they won’t know what you hope or where you stand. It’s all about clarity.
Yes, I agree it can be about clarity. In that vein, I could take it.
I don’t even know if I see them as ultimatums. They are requests or have to haves and if I can’t meet it, I can’t meet it.
The young woman is smart. I mean it’s her life course. Better than the woman who skips out on the birth control and then tells the man she got pregnant because he is oh so fertile. That guy needs to understand how it works. Like you do the birth control and the egg doesn’t even drop. Doi yoi yoi!
I saw a program about a dating website for people who want to mate and have a family. Really smart. Like the clients said, why waste months and months dating only to find out the other doesn’t want the same thing. It’s that taboo subject but for people for whom that is the goal, get it out there and find someone to do it with. Children are the best reason to mate to my mind.
on further thought, the ultimatum I do not do not do not like is do what I say or I will hurt you and/or your loved ones. Stay away from those people at all costs. It’s why I had to write my bio brother off. 😛 That’s a tongue with a capital P.
Oh dear the moticon came off like a big ol smile. NOT!!!!
I can see how she did him a favor in this case. She was protecting herself and him too. If he didn’t want kids with her he was free to go. Better than coraling him into marriage and then find out later he did not want kids.
I find it’s not just Scorpios who do this type of stuff. Water signs do it in general. It can be seen as a manipulation too. I make you feel guilty for being weak and then you do what I want. My Pisces Dad has done this to me, and actually Earth sign friends (men) with heavy water influence (mostly Cancer). I find it exhausting and I am a Solar and Asc Scorpio.
i dont like ultimatums either. if i love the guy as an example then i will give him all. but if i dont. then i can’t give him what he wants. no matter how hard a guy tries to give ultimatums. I had a water moon guy do this to me (Scorpio moon) in a manipulative way in the past and i said no, i will NOT be pressured. And he left. Sadly i was not into him that way but he was. I saw what he was doing and yes it was making me feel sooo bad. (yes it’s terrible, you feel all kinds of terribleness inside cause thats what that energy is so excellent of) but i cannot give in; i can’t compromise what i really want and that was not him.
What a great retro post for this time, in my life. My Scorpness was given an unexpected ultimatum: I didn’t like the form it showed up in(wild slash burns forcing us to move)! Hard lesson but ultimately the best form of getting out of a very depressing environment with passively agressive people . We are lightened of a very heavy past and the antidote? To be with children and bunnies @ Camp.
Passive aggressive people. Hee. I had a ton of those in my old town!
Funny how I’ve read comments where people say that they don’t like ultimatum’s yet give clauses like, “either we get along or don’t”.
Ultimatum’s, or Absolutes for a different term, exist in numerous ways: traffic, restaurants, etc. However most complicated issues aren’t black or white.
With Pluto, Mars and Saturn in Scorpio, I would fight decisions forced upon me. Now that I’m 34, I see value in this. It means I haven’t done my work and now it’s reared itself again.
I think I would see it as someone just establishing their boundaries and/or desires. Telling me something about themselves, rather than offering an ultimatum. Then its my job to think about my boundaries and desires and if they dont match up, well thats good to know right? It doesnt have to be a power play. Four planets in Scorpio.
Your post got me to thinking about what was going on in my ex-husband’s chart when we decided he should get a vasectomy. His Tr Mars in his Libra 2H was quintiling his natal Saturn/Tr Pluto conjunction in his Sag 4H. According to Cafeastrology, quintiles “… They point to awareness of conflicts or problems and finding solutions for them.” What perfect timing for this medical procedure and our family planning issue!
Your post made me think of my recent relationship in another way. In August, at the Eclipse in Leo, my now ex asked me to give up my plan about an apartment and a cat and tell him if I wanted kids with him, because he wanted a future with me.
I almost bolted. More than that, he just shrugged off my own wish for marriage. Marriage is a biggie for me. If you are going to have kids, this involves marriage, no beating around the bush. But at the time I was overwhelmed from everything and the eclipse hit my Venus-Jupiter-Sun conjunction in Scorpio. I wasn’t aware of how much the marriage part meant to me, what I really wanted 200% and I didn’t say anything out loud about it to him, of how he had crushed my dreams with a casual shrug.
6 months later, this February, he ended it due to thinking I was not ready for committing. He was wrong. He stepped on MY dream so how could I really commit? (Moon in Libra 9th House and Aqua ascendant). I hadn’t really thought about the unequal part of it as an ultimatum, and I have to say, that it opened my eyes to why I was so hesitant, on a deeper level. It is more clear to me now why I was reacting this way. But this cleared some of the haze actually, because I think of the relationship actually was ending that day, and not our ending 6 months later.
I don’t think an ultimatum means
You love someone, I think it means
This is a game I intend to win:(
It would get no response from me
And a whole bunch of deep thought
Really? I can see those centaurs/Sagittarians running for the hills if you give them an ultimatum more than a Scorpio!
Being served an ultimatum means the power has shifted and we all know how Scorpios like to be in control / have the upper hand.
I ignore it. I just walk away and keep on going. Not worth my time, thought or energy. But honestly I have to say that very very few people have ever given me an ultimatum and I never give it to others. Just not in my sphere or aura.
I wonder what he ended up doing…
Hmm. Scorpio sun here. Maybe true. I recently was given an ultimatum by a Scorpio rising/Cancer sun “friend” or should say former friend: either I apologize to her in writing or we were done. Well, she knew I couldn’t see anything to apologize for. My crime according to her? A “mean tone” when we disagreed over the universality of music. Plus my dismissal/rebuttal to her condescending comments and useless and unsolicited dating “advice” on a funny meme I shared on fcbk. She texted me that she was angry that I didn’t respond positively to her facebook comments. Then she demanded the apology by text. I called her over the phone to clear up the apparent misunderstanding, but she ended it by hanging up on me in my startled silence. Yeah, this lunacy was a definite “kiss goodbye.”
I am a double Scorpio but a late 12th House Sun. I have NEVER given anyone an ultimatum, not even my husband re anything. But I do agree with the young woman that she has a right to live her life as her heart dictates and if the includes children and he decides he doesn’t want them, that’s should not drag on. I wish I had the strength and nerve to give ultimatums. I have been given a few by my husband but he doesn’t ever follow up. I take it seriously but don’t always make the mark.
Me Scorpio , SEX is The if not Most but Very important for My Existence ,.
Yes,. times,. Very Hard for Me without ,
Trying to cope
Me lonely and very Hard ,
But working according to plan