Rejected In Love For Being Irresponsible With Money

love and money

This is a taboo topic but I have more than one client who has been crushed in relationship because of money.

A person overspends. Because of this, the lover does not want to marry them. They’re afraid (Saturn) to marry due to the spending or the debt a person is carrying.

With Saturn in Libra or Venus in Capricorn, a person’s ability to be responsible with money is tied to the level of their attractiveness. If you can pay your fair share (Libra) of the bills (share the burden), this is attractive. But it you want to stick the other with your bills, particularly if they were incurred while you ran around spending money irresponsibly, you are apt to be rejected.

Pulling your own weight is in vogue. It’s easy to say that you want to support other people, but when a person realizes that paying the other person’s bills is going to leave them penniless, that’s when they balk.

Saturn was in Libra when I wrote this.  Currently, Venus is Capricorn conjunct Saturn.  This stuff is real

Your thoughts?

 

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Rejected In Love For Being Irresponsible With Money — 38 Comments

  1. I do! ::raises hand::
    And I keep getting further into debt with student loans, too…
    I’ve thought about quitting to just work and pay it off but if I didn’t finish my education I don’t think I’d forgive myself.

    I sure felt like a loser sometimes.

    If I could paraphrase what you said to me in consultation, Elsa:

    Me: Well I’m going to be a liability to anyone!
    You: Not if you’re with someone who has money values in tune with yours.

    I have that now, with the person I’m dating. It’s very strange after all those years of austere-living boyfriends to have one that isn’t. I mean, he LIVES austerely but likes to spend $ on food, as do I.

    Anyway…I benefitted greatly from your thoughts on this, both during the consultation and now. Because it can be very, very embarrassing to talk about money for some people.

  2. People are going to talk about it though, kash. Saturn does not transit a sign without the things it rules coming to front. The conversation with the Ranger yesterday was textbook.

  3. Oh and a word in favour of the Capricorn men I dated before: they both taught me A LOT. They really did.
    I really did respect that they had a system that worked for them, especially my recent ex, who now has a disability that prevents him from earning as much money as he used to.

    If he didn’t have the values he has, he probably wouldn’t have survived. He learned the very, very, very , very hard way about people who steal and fuck with your money.

  4. Ha ha I know…I did a post on it and all I heard back was resounding SILENCE. LOL

    I did take what you said to heart though, you helped me SO MUCH!

  5. Yes, kash, that is the point. The women want to be married but the men are balking at taking on their debt.

    I also know of women who are or have been supporting men and these situations are getting stressed as well.

  6. I went to school with someone who blatantly admitted to scoping out the class rankings, in order to marry someone who could best pay off her student loans.

    She sounded like such an ugly person.

  7. This ran in my ex’s family. Nobody, but nobody, had any idea of how to manage money. My ex would blow his entire paycheck within 12 hours of getting it. I’m a shopaholic, but COME ON. He told me a story about how his father got dumped by a woman who hit the end of her rope at how his dad couldn’t handle money, and I knew then the same thing would be happening with us.

    It’s kind of unfortunate that my ex was born a man with all the expectations of “go out and get a job.” Really, he should have been born a 1950’s woman so he could stay at home, never have to work, and spend the husband’s money without anyone expecting him to contribute financially. I kind of wanted to be “the man” in a relationship because I am terrible at being the woman, but I do feel that someone should be able to take care of him/herself if I am not there to do it, so that didn’t work out.

  8. Thanks, Elsa, for bringing this up.. it is an interesting issue.

    I was in debt when I first met my husband. He was debt-free. I refused to get married until I was out of debt. It was MY thing, not his resistance.

    I think the very crucial part is that I did it 100% for me, and not as a way to be more attractive to him. I also felt it was simply fair to not bring debt into the relationship.

    He was a great example though. He didn’t do a single thing to help me (we even split things 50/50), but we made a game of being frugal. He even said I inspired him to save more b/c I got so into it. We had fun.

    I think the underlying values are the most important part. We still have fun being frugal (and remain debt-free). Neither of us feels deprived:)

    I think women should be financially responsible for their own sake, not to become attractive for a man or anyone else.

  9. I completly agree. I am a woman with no debt and I am not willing to be with a man who has prior obligations. When your single and have no children and support yourself men see you as a supplemental child support/babsitter extra check.
    (I already did the help me pay my childsupport check thing and babysit my kids while I fish and hunt)not doing it again….Long ago past…
    Life lessons..

    I have been in a relationship with a man for 3 1/2 years. We have the same situation no debt, no children. This is working quite well because no one resents the other person for having to take on prior spending/debt.

    Bottom line the lack of talking about the debt can bring problems..resentment and that leads to huge communication barriers and mass confusion for the man and woman

  10. I know we’re talking about men marrying women who have money problems… but, speaking from the opposite viewpoint, I think it’s largely the same. I worked really hard and did without a LOT to get rid of all my debt — student loans, consumer debt, etc. — and build up a healthy savings and retirement account. Some of it was lucky breaks, most of it was just sweat equity to overcome foolishness.

    I would be really hesitant to get involved with someone who was a financial wreck. In fact, I think it would be a dealbreaker. I just cannot face life with that kind of tension. Did it for 33 years, been there, got the T-shirt. Not going to volunteer for it.

  11. I have never been in so much debt before. Every time I turn around there is somebody else asking for money. First my car needed major repairs so it has been sitting outside my house for the last 11 months. Then the “Working For Families” allowance that low income earners with children under 18 get here decided they over paid me by $3500 last year and I had no idea! Now they want it back. Just went I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel I needed to go to the dentist. I am already working extra hours to cover any sick days off that I might need in the next couple of months so can’t work much more. I hate being in debt but have to just plod my way through it. I have been thinking lately that my debt needs to be paid off before I could function properly in a relationship.

  12. Oh how I love money and personal finance subjects!!

    (2nd house: Scorp Sun & Libra Venus. I should really be a financial advisor :))

    I always wonder why anyone would take on a person who is seriously in financial trouble. Not a fair thing to expect someone else to get you out of.

  13. Very timely post Elsa. My man & I plan to get married, and I am going to initiate a talk about our finances, how we are going to pay for things, etc. Luckily he has the same spending style as I do, and the same goals. Plus he is a Cap with sun conjunct saturn – very responsible.

  14. In a way, yes. I’ve got 2nd house Mercury (and Sun/Pluto) in Virgo, trining Moon, MC and Moon ruling my chart. It has always been very important for me to stay out of debt and be independent financially. Earning money in my chosen field hasn’t always been that easy, though. And that has lead me feel somewhat insecure in my current relationship, since my SO has (deservingly) been earning a lot more than me. Although I’d definitely manage financially, I couldn’t maintain the standard of life we have alone.

    We did, however, talk this through some month ago (yes, when Saturn passed to Libra), and he pretty much let me know I didn’t have any reason to feel inadequate.

  15. “I always wonder why anyone would take on a person who is seriously in financial trouble. Not a fair thing to expect someone else to get you out of”

    I wonder how many people have that expectation though…I sure didn’t. I entered my relationship debt-free. I will certainly endeavour for the same again, one day.

  16. What a timely topic! I, too, feel I can’t function properly in a relationship unless I’m debt free. To that end, I hope to have my credit card paid off by March 2010. After that I plan to chisel chunks off my student loans. My current boyfriend has no debt but doesn’t make a lot of money either. Some months he doesn’t make enough to cover his basic living expenses. He’s going through his Saturn returns in Libra right now and lives in a different state than me. He’s planning to move here early next year – here’s to getting our financial shite straightened out!

  17. You’re absolutely right. The world isn’t absent of jobs. We all have to do what we can to survive.

    To bring another perspective into this, women, especially, need to start taking heed of this article and not just saying to themselves that they’re looking to become empowered. We’re all already empowered!

    I love when Suze Orman says that “women don’t leave awful relationships because they don’t have the money to do so”. That statement, although blunt, couldn’t be more true!

  18. Sorry. Meant to add that I know that the market is tough but there are folks out there working two part-time jobs plus running gigs on the weekends to make do.

  19. This is a terrific post and really timely (again!)

    One of the main reasons I dumped my ex a couple of years ago was money issues – that is, his irresponsible attitude to the earning of it and spending of it. In his case it was not earning enough (and I mean not enough to even cover the absolute basics) and being incredibly mean and controlling with what he did have. While being quite happy to take anything I had. And I was at home with a baby, not working.

    I think you can tell so much about a person by their attitude to money and I sure as hell won’t ever get involved with anyone again who thinks that money isn’t important or that they are so spiritual it doesn’t matter. There are a lot of men out there who expect someone else to take care of them financially, they just find more ‘serious’ justifications for it than women do. (Women I think are more honest about it).

    I’ve been thinking a lot about this recently, having been so badly burned by it. It seems that my 2nd house moon needs financial security for its wellbeing and this is going to be a deciding factor for me in any future relationship. Not callous or opportunistic, just realistic.

    I love Saturn in Libra. It’s cleaning out all those fantastic neptunian cobwebs and letting the bright light of reality in. Self-respect, baybeee!

  20. My husband and I are working on a two year plan to get out of debt. I want to start doing the financial future thing and now we have a godson and I want to be able to help out there when/if needed. It is extremely SLOW. I often get discouraged, but when I pay something off for good it feels really great. The worst is this month because it’s my birthday and everything I think of doing costs money. Back to basics, just cake, ice cream and happiness for another year with friends. 😉
    BTW about getting into a relationship with concerns of debt. My husband and I split everything 50/50. It’s changing now because we want to have a house, newer car and insurances, etc. He wouldn’t have married me if he was concerned about debt as I had school loans and he did not because he didn’t go. I think it depends how bad the debt is and how you really feel about someone. I wouldn’t abandon my husband if he suddenly went bonkers with spending. You can always communicate or call on a third party (like a counslor). “Forever in blue jeans.” 😉

  21. To the other Jennifer re your ex wanting to be a 1950s housewife: SCARY! My current just might be like your ex…I’m still sussing him out…

  22. I have Rx Jupiter in the 2nd house at 29 Virgo and I have never been in debt. My sister has Rx Saturn in the 2nd house at 11 Leo and has never been out of debt. She wraps men around her finger, bleeds them dry, then moves on to the next victim. Men look right through me to the nearest blonde. But at least they aren’t bleeding me dry. You can’t drain something if you don’t touch it.

  23. sheez guys, you all sound so on top of things – ordered relationships and finances. I mean, obviously this is good!!! But what about the chaos of the now, and unexpected occurrences and compassion amoung friends e.g. sometimes I am styling and sometimes I am skint – Jupiter conjunct Uranus in the 2nd. I had a 6 month relationship which ended this past new moon. He came to visit. My plumbing was broken and I was at a very difficult time (financially)in the month. Rather than help me fix things, he left the broken pipes and me and went to complete his stay in a hotel. I can see the point of all the above writings, but guys, where is the heart? Where is the love?

  24. my so and i have different spending habits. we probably need to talk about it more than we have. but he owns a house and i rent and i have waaaay more debt than he does so i guess he’s doing better than me in a number of ways even if he buys stuff i wouldn’t.

  25. distella, I relate insofar as my previous relationship was about different approaches to $$$$.

    Where is the love?

    We had it, in spades. But ~for me~ it came down to this person thinks it’s important to spend money on THIS and this person thinks it’s important to spend money on THIS…

    Where is your Venus? Where is his Venus? How do they aspect? Check it out from an astro perspective…you might come up with something you’ve never thought of before

  26. Yeah. I know this one. I’m not super cautious with money but I make sure my priorities are taken care of above all else.

    There have been some serious situations in my own relationships that have given me heart burn and made my blood pressure skyrocket in regard to mutual weight carrying.

    I don’t give a flying fuck WHAT you do with your money, so long as our mutual responsiblities are handled in full and on time and you don’t have to attempt to make me a crutch for your own monetary obligations.

  27. Diastella, I have a heart as big as a bucket, and am endlessly generous with those I love (and everyone else, I might add). Problem is, parasites and leeches see me coming. So I have learned some very hard lessons over the last few years, and had to get realistic about setting boundaries for my own survival.

  28. i dont know about being rejected in love; i’ve known people who receive alot of love and people give it to them and these people were really irresponsible. I think the problem may lie in the other person who was irresponsible to feel disgusted by that person always giving and giving, (because they are super responsible types) and the irresponsible types ;they feel gross after awhile. That, hey i need to be like that responsible person, and they are enabling me, and now i’m disgusted with myself for being enabled constantly. that’s another perspective. Becuase from what i’ve seen in life, there are people who LOVE giving and give and dont care until that irresponsible person leaves the responsible one.

  29. I was raised on financial irresponsibility and instability. Mercury, Venus and Mars have all progressed into Capricorn. I read Elsa’s comment that having heart does not have to equate with financial ruin (paraphrase)… and I take a reality gulp.

    I’ve been an anti- corporate activist, with a desire to honour the environment and our human need to bind intimately with the Earth. I’m hopeful Uranus in Taurus lights up that awareness in our world.

    It is confusing to tow the status quo line of jobs and work ethic … when pursuit of ‘happiness’ threatens our existence.

    Meanwhile I do want to clean up my personal economics which have played into my being *dumped*. I do consider however that my history as a single mother with depression raising her child left me more vulnerable than his as a single man with high anxiety, who did not raise his children.

  30. I understand this now. I’ve been dealing with guilt of not contributing to my family’s expenses, and not wanting to be a teacher after receiving the training for it. My mom said it’s unnecessary to feel pressured to do something I don’t want to do. And that we are doing good financially. We keep it from my dad who has a bad temper.

    My boyfriend at the time, made comments on how I should try to be a teacher anyway for a few years, which contributed to existing feelings like I was only valued if I had a career. He didn’t consider the assistant job I had a career, even though it covered for my expenses. I had been depressed and I knew I couldn’t handle the pressures as a teacher at this time. It takes heart and I just didn’t have it anymore. We were on the verge of getting engaged. He kept hinting that it would happen in a year. Then a year and a month. I felt uncomfortable… I put us on a limited break. Then after months after waiting around, I decided to send his things back and set him free. He wanted a “career woman” and I was not this. I was unhappy with my planned future.

    My goal path was to get done with the school program and get married, but then I realized that I hated how he talked to me. And I hated being in charge as a teacher in a school district. I don’t know what to do now. My goal paths are destroyed.

    I’ve been heartbroken for months. It’s hard as a Capricorn moon. That’s all. I still work through, even though my heart is barely hanging in there.

    Saturn. I’m feeling you.

  31. Go read the comments under any Dave Ramsey video, especially ones addressing marriage and money. Guys are always on there, warning other guys about getting married because a woman will lure you to the altar then divorce you and clean you out in court. A woman in debt is definitely unattractive to men these days—they don’t want to take on your debt, ladies! I don’t plan to ever marry again so I’m just focused on securing my own future—not sweating the debt too much but can’t wait for it to be gone. It does weigh on me.

  32. Interesting timing. This has been crossing my mind the last couple days. My SO and I are both self employed. Tax season has us crunching the numbers. We both have the same tax lady now so she got us on track with paying 1/4ly taxes. He is great at attracting $. I am great at saving for a rainy day. We have both been fully supported by others in the past. And we have both fully supported others. My big curiosity lately is: How can I start attracting like he does? Where is my resistance to it consistently flowing in? He claims “I don’t care about $.” Maybe that’s the trick????? Poverty is a mental illness-Happy Pocket full of $ taught me that. I do my best to spend wisely. Being a minimalist helps. It’s “Your $ or Your Life.” Another great Book! He has a Taurus Mars, 12thH, crossing his South Node soon. Should be interesting. In the meantime, I’m minding MOB and letting him do the same. When we point fingers there are 3 pointing back at us.

  33. An older sister tattooed on my thinking long ago: not what you make not what you save it’s what you don’t spend that matters
    If you marry this to the sugar(addictions, yadayada)
    Article of racing to the after thought
    To fix and cure ,your quill ,(these 2 posts,)
    Dipped in a Golden new start
    1 cure if it’s just one skinny pocket
    Amazing what you skip
    Hope the sweetness comes in sky
    Colors

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