Pluto In Capricorn: Family Destroyed

I wrote this in 2009 for Pluto in Capricorn.  Eight years have passed. What do you think?

I know a family that was strong at one time.  This family stood for something, but today there’s little left of it. It’s been almost completely decimated.

You see this sometimes when the patriarch or the matriarch dies or is weakened due to tragedy of some type. Maybe it’s a devastating illness or perhaps they lose a child and can’t recover. Everything can all be traced to the one event. You can look back and see that this one person or maybe two people were holding the thing together, carrying on traditions and values maintained for generations. When they dropped off, that was it. The family fell apart.

This led me to wonder if a family ever comes together when someone dies. Some parents drive wedges between their children, be it deliberate or subconscious. In a case like that, I wonder if the family might come together when the offending parent dies. I don’t think this likely and I can’t say that I’ve ever seen it happen.

It’s seems if a family goes down, this is how it happens and once down, it stays down. Someone in that line has to come up with a concept of family, start from scratch and build anew.

The thing is people from weak families, or people who have no concept of being part of a family, family loyalty, etc. are not likely to do this. It leads me to think there is probably some dark time before something or someone springs up organically to rebuild.  In other words, it’s a Plutonian process.

I don’t think the one family I am referring to is unique. I think “family” is dying in general and it scares me.

I asked my friend, Ben about things around this, he’s worked with middle school age kids for going on 30 years. He reports that the kids all have contempt for their parents which is no surprise. I don’t see this turning around anytime soon.

Thoughts? What is the state of your family? Does it matter?

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Pluto In Capricorn: Family Destroyed — 99 Comments

  1. Hmm. When my mother died, the family fell apart. It didn’t fall apart when father died — but when she died, it did. She kept it together… holidays, cards, I don’t know, she was the glue. Not being very articulate here…. I tried to keep it together after her, made attempts, but could not — it could not recover. We are all older now and I don’t try like I used to– Gosh this sounds depressing. But the state of family feels estranged. It does matter, a lot but I’ve accepted how it is…. One sibling is here. One sibling is there. One grandparent left, in a nursing home, an uncle, some cousins…. I’m closest to a second cousin who lives in my city. Yeah, estrangement, always kinda experienced a chill in my family. I am the only cardinal in immediate family, in a family of fixed (father, taurus, mother scorpio, brother aqua, sister leo).I sometimes wonder if I’ll ever make my own family or always be a satellite or with “friend” famlies (strong 11th house). I am trying to accept….what is.

    • My family fell apart with the death of a sibling, then came together again when the matriarch died. So it is possible for a family to come together stronger than ever.

  2. My family got apart 10 years ago.
    It has been painfull for too many years
    Now I’m getting over it.
    I have friends, and life projects 🙂

  3. My family fell apart about 10 years ago too.
    Everyone is living in its own little bubble, not even trying to hold onto the traditions anymore.
    It used to upset me but now I’m just jaded about it.

  4. My family is tight – I have no idea how it happened, with parents who were completely insane, but we are. When my parents died, it almost killed some of our relationships, because their dying was as equally insane as their living. The stress was indescribable – crazy people do not go quietly into the night. At least my mother did not – after she died, my father did just give up and he quietly followed her, as he spent his life, just following her, whatever she wanted. But my sisters and our families, we spend birthdays, holidays, kids graduations, concerts, just hanging out, we are together. I am closest to my younger sister, but we are all a family, and I am very grateful for that.

  5. I consider myself very lucky when it comes to my immediate family, I think we are quite unusual in that sense. (not to sound like Im bragging, but I guess not a lot of families are.) I wouldn’t say we get along superficially (me and my sister fight like cat and dog) but we all know the importance of family, and to me it doesn’t feel like a duty or an obligation, but an essential part of my life. I know they feel the same way

    We all have significant Capricorn energy on our charts. (except for my Mum, who has a lot of Gemini/Virgo energy, which I’m glad we have…. balances out all the seriousness and intensity! =D ) Dad and me are Cap rising- he also has a Grand Earth Trine- and I have Uranus and Neptune sandwiching my Ascendent with my Sun and Moon squaring it. Sister has a Cap Sun, Neptune and Mercury in the 4th house, finally brother has a Cap stellium in the 11th (Moon, Uranus, Neptune)

    I think because the earth energy is so prominent, this is why we’ve always stuck together. So the upcoming pluto through Cap transit worries me a fair bit, since we’re all going to be affected BIG TIME. Should be interesting, to say the least!

    • I think too having a lot of earth, the desire for stability or being stable despite hardships growing up, just makes me want to hold on no matter what. my Capricorn grandmother really held the family together, and I see it too with my Capricorn mother in law – shes the only one who makes the glue stick. I saw it with my husband’s grandma too, having Pisces sun/aqua venus/Capricorn mars/Cancer moon. she has that cancer/cap axis. I see it with my own mother who has Capricorn moon, and people can always see the “control” but it’s a natural process, to hold on tightly – ride and die kind of energy.

  6. My family has been dysfunctional from day one. Raised by a step dad and (my mom)with the step siblings that never accepted me or my brother or my mom from day one, and still to this day. I have chosen not to have them (the step siblings)in my life, and have created the kind of family I have always wanted with my kids, a loving, respectful always their for each other for the long haul family. I love it!

  7. This is a pretty synchronous post for me right now.

    A couple of weeks ago, my man and I were talking family and we had to agree upon our differences. I said that a family is bonded by blood, and the love between them is inherent. I grew up in a tight family that supported each other as best as we all could and told each other how much we loved one another daily. Whereas he grew up being told he wasn’t good enough (he shouldn’t have been born) and so his idea of family is not based on inherent love, but rather earned love since he had to grow, mature, prove himself to gain the love of his mother.

    My man’s mother has been really sick for the last two years and probably going to die in the next two weeks or so. I am watching his (weak structured) family cope with this every day. I don’t yet know the outcome, and I’m not sure that his family will be rebuilt. His step-father has been distant and unsupportive during his mother’s illness. His older sister is trying, but my man and her have never been close, so I don’t see much of a continued relationship after the mother’s death, and she is the matriarch I might add–the glue that holds that family together.

    This process is long and intense, and I don’t think their family will rebuild. However, I think that it will change my man’s idea of family in general and it might force him to look at what he wants to create for a family. Does he want to continue the legacy of the negative family head? Or will he be the supportive patriarch to our future children?

    I don’t know yet, so I can’t answer your question…but I’ll let you know as time passes I guess.

    That’s Pluto for you…currently opposing my man’s natal moon. *sigh*

  8. I think you’re right in that with many families, there’s one person that brings and holds them together as a family, in mine it was my grandma and when she died, the family went up like a bunch of matchsticks. I think it’s like a forest burning though — it may look like it’s razed to the ground, but eventually there’s an offshoot here, a new growth there, and a loooooong time later, a new “family” concept is there. It’s never the same family, never the same type of feeling among those who come back, but there can be healing and growth. I don’t think that the concept of family is dying, but it certainly isn’t the same “family” as 50 or 100 years ago. It’s a new growth, and it’s hard to see if we keep comparing it to what we knew in the past.

  9. My family is permanently fractured and far apart, or dead in the case of my elderly dad’s family. It’s the single biggest factor in not having a family of my own. It used to affect me in a very bad way but I’ve had therapy and now it just comes and goes in waves. I ride them out.

    I’ve long thought that when I have the resources, I’d like to be a foster parent. I have planets in the 5th squaring 8th House Saturn, as well as Cappy Moon square Pluto. I’m confident I’d be a good one.

  10. Oh I’m feeling this. I was on vacation and I said to my partner “I don’t feel like I belong to my family.” Things have been falling off the past several years – one of the biggest blows was when my parents gave my sister their power of attorney and replaced me as executor of their wills with her a couple years ago. Do I think it was a good choice? Yes, since she lives next door to them. Would I have liked to been consulted rather than presented with it as fait accompli? Indeed I would have.

    So yeah, it’s almost unbearably painful to me, but it’s increasingly clear that I don’t belong with or to my family, and that I don’t merit the same amount of consideration or care that anyone else does. But on the flip of that, part of the reason I don’t get attention is that I moved 2500 miles away. And I don’t belong where they are any more than they would belong here. So in fairness, I’m not sitting here going “they fucked up” because I can see the consequence of my own choices. But that doesn’t mean those consequences hurt less.

    And, to quote Forrest Gump, that’s all I’m going to say about that.

    • Your family sounds like they’re envious of your individuality. I don’t know, that’s just the feeling I get reading this.

  11. p.s. to a comment that will probably show up shortly: Pluto now is transiting my 8th house and consequently touching off a natal T square between Mars/Venus in Cancer, Uranus in Libra, and Jupiter in Cap. These are all early to mid degrees of cardinal signs, so I’m making friends with that crush.

  12. I guess that’s it’s quite telling that when I speak about my family, I’m really meaning my father’s family, which is close knitted by Western standards. My very Libran paternal grandmother is still alive, and yes, I think she really has been the one to clue the family together. She probably got it from her family, she still is in close contact with her living siblings and her nieces and nephews too. The good thing is that she has definitely passed it to her children too. My three Pisces aunts have built a holiday home together to replace an old one where my cousins, my brothers and I used to spend all our childhood summers. We’ll definitely continue going there and spending time together even when my grandmother won’t be around, since we genuinly like each other.

    My mother’s family, on the other hand, really shattered the moment my grandmother, a dutiful Virgo, gave up. It was disfunctional to begin with – my grandfather probably wasn’t the easiest person to get along to begin with, and was completely shattered by the war. My grandmother constantly had to act as a negotiator between her family members. When she didn’t have any force to do so anymore, the family disintegrated.

  13. I see the United States of America as a family and to me it appears that the glue – the values and standards holding us all together – is coming undone.

  14. I would say parts of my family are breaking off, but the overall extended family is as close and as crazy as they’ve always been. I think, and here is the scary part, they’re starting to wake up and deal with some dysfunction in parts of the family that has been swept under the rug for so many years. One aunt destitute, another alcoholic, another leaving an abusive relationship and I see them pulling together. Trying to be supportive. I see this DESPITE the extreme lack of energy to do so because their lives are busy and stressful (jobs lost, babies born to those unable to support, etc.) yet even those with little to give are giving of time and energy. I see it as hopeful. I also see it as not the norm amongst families around me (friends).

    My SO’s family is good, small and tightknit but this pluto is going to run opposite his moon so I wonder if his parents (aging but healthy) might not be in for some trouble.

    (((Shannon))) you’re right, not the way to find out btw. A bit of a “here is what we’re thinking of and why” would have made it nice and easy.

  15. Thanks 🙂 I don’t do nice and easy well, even when I try. As I said, things are rarely one sided and I have played my own part in the story.

    The upside to all of it is I built my own family – the Tribe I’ve spoken of – and they are rock solid and support me as well I support them. I think this is a win.

  16. Hmmm…this IS an intereating post. Had a lot of family ‘stuff’ in the forefront lately. My family is fairly tight-knit but I am not sure what would happen were we to lose my Mother or Father anytime soon. We all have very different personalities as well and that makes our relationships strained at times. As my Father said “I couldn’t have had 4 children with more differences if I’d tried”. It’s like we were raised by 4 different families. There are some similarities in there, don’t get me wrong, but we are all quite involved in our own lives apart from the family.

    My fiance’s family is a different story. His Father passed earlier this year and his immediate family has pretty much fallen apart since then. That should change again soon though as his Mother is moving back into our area. Once she is gone though? I don’t see he and his brother (who lives on the opposite Coast) continuing a very close relationship.

  17. for family, I’ve got next to nothing, and yes I do think it matters. i had to let go of nearly everyone, and there wasn’t much to begin with. I have a few close friends scattered around the earth, but I haven’t lived anywhere long enough to have supper tight people around. I’m beginning to feel close to a few people here, and this is not where I want to live at all. Sigh…

    yes I think families are changing, have changed, and i hope it gets better.

  18. I watched this movie today called The Living and The Dead that you must see because it speaks to this exact theme. It’s about this last generation of an English aristocrat family that’s clearly about to die. The family dynamic in this story is one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen in a film.

    Fortunately, my family is not like the one in the film. However, I am somewhat intimidated by the prospect of us “dying out.” My father’s parents were concentration camp survivors, and they each had only one surviving sibling. My father has one childless sister. My mother’s family was blended (her father had been married and had three children prior to marrying my grandmother, who was twenty years younger than he was), so there are huge age gaps on her side of the family. My oldest aunt is almost 80; the oldest cousin is almost 50 and the youngest just turned 5. (I’m 25, almost 26.) I don’t know how my sister feels about it, but I personally feel like I have somewhat of an imperative to have children, because if neither of us do, my mother’s line will shrink significantly and my father’s will be gone.

    Pretty scary, especially right before bed. I think I’m going to watch some Muppets.

  19. I will not weep for the death of The Family. I hear you, Shannon. My entire life I have been told that Family Is EVERYTHING, it is your ONLY source of happiness in life, and yet in my case, no, it is not. It is a fat lie. You could claim that my dad’s death had somewhat of that kind of effect, but it was more like, now that her brother isn’t here, my aunt (and everyone else follows her) doesn’t feel like she has to tolerate me or my mother any more. Good riddance though. I didn’t come out of either aunt’s womb and they don’t care overmuch about me because of that, I’m not family ENOUGH. Just because you’re blood doesn’t mean anything beyond medical issues.

    As for the US, let’s face it: half the family is drastically different in personality from the other half, to the point of being unable to deal with differences or compromise. Much like my own relatives, there’s really no way to get the two together.

  20. My “family” was never tight. Brothers were 9 and 12 years older than me, and I was raised almost entirely by my mom, grandmother and aunt. When I was young it was good; the three of them fought like cats and dogs sometimes, but it was family and it worked.

    I had great fear of my eldest brother, due to his massive drug use in the late sixties when I was young. He and I passed that and I love him dearly, but rarely talk to him. His wife keeps us in touch to some extent, but he is so morose and such a “The End Is Near” kind of guy that he depresses the hell out of me.

    Middle brother and I…not so much. I know where he is, but the only communication is him sending me a Christmas card every year. When Mom died, he stood twenty feet from where they were putting her in the ground, counting money her co-workers had collected to help me pay the bills those last months of 24/7 caring for her. HE decided we should invite all those assholes that showed up for the funeral that never even called to ask about her the last year of her life to the house. Washed my hands of him after I told him off the next day. DONE.

    I think that’s why I stayed in my marriage so long. It was the only “family” I had at that point. I still have them in my life – including the ex, because we are being so grown up about this whole thing – but I also have an extended family I can’t believe exists. Lee’s family has embraced me and my daughter as their own, and once they get to know my boy, I know they will bring him into that circle as well.

    Family is blood, yes. I still refer to the counting cash brother as my brother, but I have no use for him after that. For me, family is made up of those who love us despite our failings and weaknesses. The ones who hold our hand while we are sick or pass the kleenex when we cry and share the day to day living and laughter as well.

    • “For me, family is made up of those who love us despite our failings and weaknesses.” Amen! We are all a human family and if your own blood doesnt work for you there are many many options.

  21. My family is tight. Hubs’ isn’t. His parents are the only glue holding the family together. After they pass on, no one will speak to each other any longer. This has been brewing for years, even before I married into the family.

    Hubs’ sister is a toxic, neurotic, dysfunctional mess who will completely go to pieces when my MIL passes on. His brother married another mess who turned out to be a money grubbing POS with plenty of FOO issues that managed to find their way into hubs’ family. Ack. She wants nothing to do with my ILs, but was all too happy to use the family business to pay her bills.

    Naturally, these two toxic divas have been at each other’s throats for years. They tried, somewhat successfully, to throw me in the middle of their mess. They’ve resented me ever since I came into the family, but I don’t take it personally. They would have done it no matter who hubs wound up with.

    As for the next generation, I predict that BIL’s kids and my kids will stay in touch, but not the neurotic SIL’s kids. She’s raised them to resent their cousins for taking Grandma’s attention away from them…just as she resented her siblings, especially her brothers, taking attention away from her. This is really sick, and while I don’t like the kids’ attitudes at all, they wouldn’t have turned out so bad if that wacko wasn’t raising them. Sad, really.

    Because my family is close, and so were my friends’ families, I never experienced anything like this until I got married. My family loves each other despite all our faults (my brother is a recovering addict). Hubs’ family, or specifically, the two wenches, live for picking apart people’s faults and rejecting them. It’s just horrible how a couple of people with issues can ruin a family, which seems to be a recurring theme in these posts.

  22. i was blessed to have a strong extended family that i was born into.
    i used to think it was grandma. it used to all center around her house. but i’ve started to realize, as the cousins all get older, it’s what every single one of us does, to stay connected and support each other.

    the way i see it, family is the core component of tribe (and we are neurologically designed to be a tribal species) and we cannot have community without first building familial bonds.
    of some sort. i’ve seen a great deal of “families by choice” rather than blood…

    i think maybe we’ve leached a lot of the potential power family can hold. as if we’re afraid to give family power. and i can see reasons why, but i think it leaves us a bit hamstrung as human beings and strongly social creatures prone to developing significant bonds with others in order to maintain positive community.

  23. This is what happend Elsa, when my dear nephew died ten days ago. Our family is so divided. He was the last thread. I know I probably never see them again. This is on my fathers side. On my mothers side this situation is going on for a much longer time.
    I thank God I have some loving friends around me and I am not scared to be alone. But I feel deep sorrow about my nephew, he was hansome and kind, and intelligent as well.
    His sun was in cancer. And indeed Pluto is in Capricorn. I know Saturn was in his house 11 on his birth chart.

  24. When the center is too egotistical, that can be a problem too. People start rebelling, or leaving, or both.

    That’s what happened with one of my friend’s family. Their selfish parents just got a bit power hungry. Sometimes flexibility is needed for leadership, not always hardness!

  25. Some of us I think come in to break free of family enmeshment. Dramas that have played out over lifetimes of taking on different roles. It can be hard, but ultimately liberating.

  26. Elsa, that is one of the most astonishingly precise things I’ve ever read, astrologically. My birth family, which is incredibly dysfunctional (alcoholic father never protected us from incredibly abusive mother who did everything in her power to turn her 3 daughters against each other. They NEVER said “I love you”, they said…to all 3 of us,”you’re so goddamned STUPID”, daily.) The whole family has fallen apart, and although my parents are still alive none of us go see them. It’s all been falling apart since 2010. When they die soon, that’s it…no reason for the 3 of us to ever speak to or see each other again. No one is speaking to anyone else now anyway. GREAT POST ELSA! I’m sorry for the pain people are going through, but also really glad it’s not just my family. My kids are doing great though, ironically. Their families get stronger by the day.

  27. Some of us, despite coming from truly disturbed families, did all we could to keep that family together but had no choice to walk once it became crystal clear they only valued us for how they could use us.

  28. If loyalty is rewarded with delight because it means you’re easier to abuse, I think the person you owe the most loyalty to is yourself- a family of one.

    • That is disturbingly psychotic and dark, Scot. I’d say borderline evil. Geezus! I hope you have friends in real life who you can rely on, it’s kind of a way of giving some of your family members the finger.

    • SFS, I totally agree! I don’t bother with people who don’t love and like me for who I am anymore. I’m not a psychological punching bag. Well said~~”I think the person you owe the most loyalty to is yourself – a family of one.” That was spot on. It’s healthy, and opens us up to good, strong, equal and empowering loving relationships.

  29. Interesting take on Pluto in Capricorn…. were you thinking effects in home (Cancer) would partly be the spur for the experience of a stripped down, wintery 10th house world? I’ll have to think about that. My son — 8th house 1st decan cancer sun conjunct mercury and oppose Neptune in Capricorn (age soon-to-be 30) & late mutable t-square to virgo moon was under a long series of transits with the Uranus/Pluto square in 2012-2015 in his mid-twenties. My second wife/his step-mother and I were just about his only family — I am one of five siblings, but none of bros & sistrs got to know Sam and we barely talk (our parent’s ashes are in people’s basements because we can’t figure a time to all get together). His birth-mom is much out of the picture and also comes from broken family with lots of mental illness. In 2011, my now-ex basically ghosted me & since then he has basically had no family. We had a fairly heart-breaking (for me) conversation last year — he said families build wealth across generations, that there is a sequence, and he is in one of the start-over generations who have to make money etc for future. So I think there might be something to your question. Makes me sad, o’ course. But also makes me think about the way this might work in other pluto transits (death/crisis of with respect to qualities of opposite sign)…

    • Hi, David. I don’t think a planet can transit Capricorn and not impact Cancer. It’s the parental axis. The government is the father for many families. I wrote about this quite a bit, years ago. People didn’t find it that interesting, I guess. But the rot is obvious and I think we’re still going down..it will get worse before it gets better, unfortunately.

  30. My family of 4 of sisters and 2 brothers were always close. We had to look out for each other as kids. Mom was busy running the household, Dad worked at nights.
    We really got closer when she got breast cancer & then Alzheimer’s. As time went on (7 years) and she needed more care we made out a schedule & one of us would go after work for a few hours & on weekends to help Dad. When she had to into a nursing home after he had health issues he was hiding, we placed her in a nursing home the last 7 years of her life. We continued the same schedule. She’s Mom, how could we not? God knows I’m sure she just wanted to run away at times & get away from it all. Who wouldn’t with seven kids, a husband who drank & her Mother living with them! Dad lived another 13 years & his last year was intense to say the least. He was not a flexible man to be sure. But, we didn’t abandon him. One of my grandmother’s (Dad’s mother) sayings was “honor thy mother and father”…which I personally felt was pure manipulation with her own kids. And it certainly affected our brood of 7. But, it could have gone the other way! I think it was the karma between all of us. We now keep in touch by phone, or visit if in the area. But we all have our own lives/families.
    I’m not saying how anyone should handle things. Its just that we did it that way. I don’t think it occurred to us to do differently. It took its toll on us & impacted us in many ways and not all of them healthy to be sure. And hey if your family is toxic, take care of you for God’s sake. I guess after this long family saga..family is important, but you also need to take care of you. It was a real 3 ring circus with my father as the ringmaster! Sometimes I think we were just plain nuts! There’s more to the family saga of course with that many of us. We let each other live their lives…but if one of us needs help, we’re at the ready. We are not a model family by any means. But we do put the fun in dysfunctional!

  31. Pluto in Capricorn is opposing Cancer=family, and the US is a Cancer nation.
    I am a cancer (16 degrees) with Pluto opposing my Sun, one more pass in the fall, TG only one more.
    My family fell apart a few years after my Mother died in 1998. We got together for holidays for a few years.
    With Pluto opp my Sun, it just occurred to me, this is probably it. I hope its not it for me personally, but from my perspective there is no way the family will be put back together again. Not my choice-no interest on the others part.
    My husband died when Saturn went through Cancer and Pluto opposed my venus, along with a lot of friends.
    I have to make my own family now. It does get scarey.

  32. Yes I always thought that family would always be there. Now I am recognizing that it is not true. I am single but truly feel that I belong with a family. My siblings still want to connect but I cannot say the same about the nephews. Some of them are drifting away. They say sibling relationships are important as we get older…we shall see how that works out.

  33. My husband was diagnosed with advanced terminal cancer in 2008. He passed 9 days into 2009. Everyone in my family adored him. My father counted him as a son. When he was gone no one came to visit me and our child anymore. (We live in another state)
    All our friends who were our surrogate family, moved away or no longer include us in gatherings. In fact, no one has stayed in our life since then. My boyfriend and I recently broke up because he and his family kept us on the fringes and never fully embraced us.
    This transit has been the most liberating and at the same time destructive of my life. I have a stellium in Cancer and our daughter is Cap. I do wonder if it will always be like this.

  34. If anyone has Netflix I suggest watching Bloodline…the entire show gives a pretty clear picture of how one event took down an entire family! It is really a great show and no I don’t work for Netflix…haha!

  35. My ex husband who I never stopped loving and was married to for a very very long time recently passed away. It has been devastating for me and I am so sad. The only good thing to come out of his death is that it brought me and my adult step son back together again. For the record he died when transiting Saturn was exactly opposite to my Natal Venus. Also Pluto has been opposite my Sun and conjunct my Ascendent. I have had 3 important special people in my life die within this past 9 month period. But the recent death of my ex was by far the most difficult event I have ever endured.

  36. So much of this resonates for me too. It’s healing to discuss and accept what is sometimes a taboo subject. I’ve had people try to shame me for not trying harder to reconcile with family when I know it is impossible. Interestingly I just had a deep conversation today with someone I’d just met applying for community work that covered so many of these concerns. And close echoes of what we said to each other in this thread. I wonder what might be going on astrologically now that would bring this to light today on so many levels.

  37. I felt really sad reading all these comments.
    (((Everyone)))

    The state of my family is very different than most people. We are a very close family. This includes extended family- Aunts, uncles, cousins. Most people would probably hate to be around family so much but we love it. It’s a great support system. I hope we continue like this for generations. My family is solid and for that I feel very blessed. ❤️ (Please forgive me if I sound like I’m bragging. I’m not. 🙁)

  38. What I don’t understand is how family members are so destructive to each other. My grandparents were all immigrants and they helped and supported each other in crucial ways. They didn’t all like each other, and some of them were foolish or made big mistakes. But there was a sense they were part of the same team and it was good to help the others progress and do well. In contrast I’ve observed in my own family levels of destructiveness toward other members that is ruthless and unchecked. I’m glad I grew up in an extended family atmosphere where there were so many connections. My siblings’ children never see each other because of their parents’ enmity. It seems so self-defeating but it just gets worse as time passes.

  39. My family dies and this is good. If you want your family to continue, then don’t mistreat your children! I can relate with all kids, who have contempt for their parents. I don’t see anything scaring here. Children are at the mercy of their parents and that’s the real problem! The extended family could prevent any abuse or maltreatment, but does usually fail in this. So ScottishFoldSoul’s ‘family of one’ remains as a solution. But this is also no perfect solution because children can’t care for themselves and humans aren’t made for living alone.

    I’d be willing to live in a community with only people around me, who have very great synastries with me. But as long as I’m the only one, who thinks this way…

    • Some parents take out their anger and baggage onto their children, half of the time it’s subconscious. The other half, it’s blatant and overt.

      I can forgive a mentally ill parent, even if they got physical with me. I can forgive a snarky, even venomous, remark. I can forgive alcoholism and/or addiction like alcoholism and gambling. But psychopathy and/or narcissism?? No.

        • Dorien,

          I also learned that people have different likes and dislikes. Just because I don’t like my mother, doesn’t mean another person won’t like her.

          • This sounds like you understand the importance of synastry. But I’m still the only one, who thinks it should be used to avoid unnecessary pain?
            .
            If I could only find people with extremely good synastry with me for living together, perhaps sharing a house or so. But it seems like people aren’t interested in avoiding pain.

      • Feel the same way, anon. And parents who are contemptuous of their children because they don’t sufficiently enhance the parents’ self-image to outsiders shouldn’t be surprised when their children grow up to be contemptuous of them.

  40. My husband left (and then divorced) his first wife in 2010. He had been estranged from his brother for years. The divorce was brutal, but the first family member to step forward and offer support was his estranged brother. I have watched their friendship go from strength to strength ever since. My husband’s first wife hated his brother, and I think influenced my husband against him. So, now that she is gone, it had brought these two brothers back together again. What Pluto rips asunder, Pluto remakes with something new and wonderful. (says Pollyanna … 🙂 )

  41. I think most teens have had contempt for their parents since the dawn of time. It’s nothing new. I hope the concept of family isnt dying. Family is everything. It can sure feel as though its a rare thing when youre without family though, whether by choice or otherwise. The world can feel very lonely without family. Unless youre lucky and have several true friends who are like family.

  42. Goodness, this made me think & relive some thoughts. 2009 was when my mother-in-law passed & I watched my now ex-husband’s family tear into each other over money. They were always driven by the dollar; greed is too kind a word, as well as jealous as hell of each other. (It was a highly dysfunctional family where the m-i-l was the expert at manipulation & this lot learnt from the best!) The 4 siblings were disgraceful & were not afraid to rip each other off. The problem for me was that blame was always projected away from the doer to the unfortunate partner. I got it as did my sister-in-laws/brother-in-law & our guilt was for the fact of standing by our partner! For me, I also wore in quite a few different ways, the folly of my ex-husband’s mid-life crisis. Reponsibility is simply a foreign concept to him or his siblings.
    Once that family home had been sold & the father-in-law moved into a nursing home, my ex abruptly walked out the door then proceeded, along with his siblings & their partners to blame me for anything & everything they possibly could. Within months they were tearing into my family & destroying it too. My ex bankrupted me, abused in as many different formats he could & created/caused so much destruction. I got absolutely nothing going through Family Court. 23 years of everything I ever worked for just taken; a reason why I will never trust the judiciary (not for the first time have I seen their direct effect in my life).
    I have not seen my youngest son since he was 16; they’ve poisoned his mind. I drew a line in the sand under my own mother/brother when they took sides then tried to turn my other 2 against me with devious underhanded tactics. My ex & youngest went over to Queensland to see mother during this. She is 92 yrs this year but age is no excuse for her behaviour in my book; she does have all her faculties about her & knew full well what she was doing.
    Hard times would be an understatement. Feeling broken-hearted at the world & life in general was a theme for a few years but now I realise there are some things that need to have the door locked closed, never to be reopened or you will not survive. With the 2 who have stood by me & watched all this play out as they grew from teenagers into young adults, I can only say I am so proud the way they have turned into responsible, caring, well-adjusted people.

  43. When my father suddenly passed away, 5 years ago, the family broke. My older sister already had strained relationships with mom and dad.
    I had been the only point of connection between my sister and our parents. When dad died I was left dealing with a grieving and, in her own way, very selfish mom and a very selfish sister. My expectation was that my sister provided some sort of mature, experienced help in those hard times. It didn’t happen so I chose to cut all ties with her, I couldn’t deal with everything else and her. Once I broke the connection she flew free and away from me and mom, never looking back, probably grateful that I did it.
    The truth is that her and mom deserve each other, they are both just as selfish, I don’t get why I am in this hurtful game. Since dad died I did not shed one tear, because I had no time and I am afraid that if I crash I won’t get up.

  44. This Pluto in Capricorn transit is literally hitting home for me (transiting my 4H). I am also a Cancer Sun, Venus and Mars squaring my Saturn in Aries (Uranus transiting my 7H). I have had no permanent home since 2010. My family has been nonsupport ice, nonexistent and severely abusive basically my whole adult life. Once the matriarch of the family, my grandmother (a Taurus Sun), who raised me from the moment my mother dumped me on her lap and left me across the globe to fly back home on her own, died, my idea of having a family is gone forever. I sadly remain single, by repeated betrayal backstabbing blow after another by the last two boyfriends/partners I’ve had since 2001. I am now almost 49 and it feels like I will never achieve that emotionally satisfying level of mutual love and family. This has been an excruciating long and painful Cardinal T-square for me since 2008. I feel dead inside. I have literally had my soul crushed by life circumstances in every possible scope. Only till death will I be free and finally at peace.

  45. Miss my Mama,Dad loved us but was a tiger hurt all 9 of us opened the door to pretend to be tough and it doesn’t hurt,still does hurt, though I try to accept things in this world unfair…I am my knight in shining armor, and I have no time to be anything but loving me and having
    To bury my fears or be late for work
    Kisses to all

  46. All of the things my siblings and I went thru with taking care of our parents did wound us in ways, but it also made us stronger. You can only do what you know at that particular time in your life.
    And importantly, learn from it and move on. Look to your future and say what are the lessons I have learned from these experiences. What do I choose to leave behind and what are the gems of wisdom do I choose to carry forward? Now this is a process to be sure, but it beats the hell out of anger, blame, guilt, etc. True, those things have to be worked thru, but you get my drift.

  47. This is what happened to me. Beginning in 2008, the veil lifted for me and I began to people for who they were. Pluto entered my sun, moon mercury sign, cap 12th house. My father died although he was removed from the family it brought my siblings back into my life as well as my mother. Within the last 9 years, they’ve all left again and my own little family fell apart too. We are rebuilding ourselves without the outside influence of the people I came into this world with. It’s the only way to move forward. The only way to heal generations moving forward.

  48. On December 23, 2008, Tr Pluto was in Capricorn at 0 degrees 58 minutes. That was the day my marriage ended and our family unit imploded. Yes, Pluto does destroy organized structures.

    • I expected it to destroy states, not families. Obviously families are a much more artificial concept than I thought.

  49. I don’t think the one family I am referring to is unique. I think “family” is dying in general and it scares me

    I agree with this. Its not just one family. I see it all around me. My husband and his mother mutually decided to stop speaking to each other in 08?? Not a word. No one calls the other one.

    I have asked him time and again….how can you not miss your mother? He says it never crosses his mind to call his parents. He says dealing with his mother is so hard emotionally that its too much drama to deal with daily/weekly and he wouldn’t be able to function properly had he allowed it to continue. (he has a Cap moon and I have always heard they have problems with mom? Not sure if this is true)

    I have also asked why he wont at least discuss this with her. Work it out. Once they are dead and gone that is it. But, he wont budge and I don’t want to be in a knock down drag out fight with him over it.

    This does cross my mind though. If he could easily walk away from his mother, father and brother (brother and father did nothing to him) what makes me special? I have always thought it good to watch how a man treats his mother.

    I love my husband but I can see the way some things are completely lost on him – for example my unconditional willingness to keep going back in the ring for my kids, my grandgals and my mother. He has asked more than once, why do you keep going in after them all? And I say…its simple. LOVE. LOVE. LOVE. I made a commitment to my children when I signed on to bring them into the world and ….I love them. I don’t want to be without them. I don’t want them to go off without a mother. I don’t care how old they are. I don’t give a shit how mad they get or how much they want to argue. I am in it.

    Their father left. I am not about to do the same. And please believe me when I tell you they are as difficult as you can imagine. Try to imagine a Scorpio stellium trying to get along with a Gemini Stellium. These are people that are talking two completely different languages. I am just glad I realize it and know to find a way to work around it.

    If not for love I would have stopped talking to him (well I never actually get a word in sideways) when he became an adult. Nothing about him has been easy from his birth forward. But, do something to him….deal with the wrath, cos I love my boy. And, as trying as it has been, my children love me too. And they know what I have done for them.

    When my father’s mother passed I knew it was my one way ticket out of that side of the family. No one tried to contact me or invite me to anything, but expected me to be present when there was a funeral. Yeah, forget that. It’s not good when you are only invited to funerals 🙁 and my father dumped me at 8 months old. Why would I talk to him or take care of him now? He is 80. He needs to find one of those good ol’ boys that were more important than his child to do the end stage dirty work. I really don’t even know him. And, this was not my fault.

    When my other grandmother (maternal) (the one that raised me) was alive we always stayed in touch with our Tennessee family. We were all really close. I have swam in more creeks in Tennessee than I can count. But, when she passed, it was over. Never once was it ever the same. No one stayed in contact. In fact, the loss of those women shattered and splintered both sides of the family. What I knew in childhood was immediately gone. Gone on both sides of the family.

    You’ll be hard pressed to find a bigger pain in the ass than my Cancer sun, Aqua moon and asc mother. Good lord. She is probably throwing back shots of whiskey right now and chain smoking with her girlfriends haha…. open heart surgery with quadruple bypass and a pacemaker….. I guarantee she is not home right now….she is out running the streets with her gal pals smoking, drinking, playing loud music (pushing 80 years old haha) she worries me, she annoys me, she makes me furious ….but I love that hard headed (has both a Cancer and a Taurus stellium) old crazy woman. I cant help it. I just do. If she calls my butt is headed her way. If she needs me I am going to be there. But, my sisters wont. Not one of them. There are 4 and not one of them. 3 of them haven’t spoken to her in years. And one only does when she is in a money bind. I don’t get it….but, its true.

    I think the idea of family or what family really is or means is almost dead to most people and that is sad….Family is the backbone of any society.

    • “This does cross my mind though. If he could easily walk away from his mother, father and brother (brother and father did nothing to him) what makes me special?”

      You don’t know the whole story with his mother. Maybe she’s constantly passive aggressively controlling. Maybe she’s continually snarky and puts him down…..when you’re not around. Maybe she’s manipulative with his money. Maybe she’s cold and indifferent towards him. Could be she’s just plainly a mean person. It could be he doesn’t tell you everything. It’s highly possible he’s put up with her for years, perhaps even decades! And his mind, and heart, can’t take it anymore.

      I do hope that family isn’t a thing of the past though.

  50. I don’t think families loved or respected each other any more centuries ago, they just needed each other for survival so they were more willing to make certain compromises while continuing to hate each other’s guts. Not all, but many.

  51. Wow this topic has obviously hit a sensitive spot in us all.

    When my dad died we all became closer/better. His passing was like a black cloud lifted and we could all breathe again. Things have got better and better ever since.

    My dad is the Pluto conjunct my MC – a pedophile that affected all of us in some way. His abuse was subtle but pervasive and in the long term – extremely crazy making – our alcoholic mom was not a lot better. She stopped drinking many years ago – and there was still a lot of good – we are all close -though dysfunctional as one would expect. As for my dad – He had his good side – he did support us all and was a mentor for me in many ways.

    I just returned from a family visit (I live on other side of the country) and my mom was in hospital for a bit – and it was a reminder that shes next. I can see old wounds surfacing and things get a bit touchy.

    I have heard it said that with the sign of Cancer opposite Pluto in Capricorn – we all need to process and heal our childhood /inner child (Cancer)- so we can move through this breakdown of the old order (family/government/religion/ patriarchy etc) and turn it into a Break-through. Time for a new sense of family that includes the whole human race.

  52. I just recalled something I read a few years ago in a bio of Vivian Vance (Ethel in I Love Lucy). She had a nervous breakdown and was hospitalized a few years before she was hired for Lucy. Her mother was abusive and negating to her and she struggled with that wounding all her life. After she became successful she was very devoted to helping the mentally ill and visited patients in sanitariums to talk to them. The anecdote in the book relates that often people would tell her how their families put them away because they thought they were defective or crazy. And Viv would say, “Tell them to go f*** themselves!” Which seemed to shock the patients but also often helped them come out of deep depression. She was earthy but she seemed to have a real healing presence that helped people.

    I think if family is loving and supportive that’s a gift in life. But if your family is toxic and tries to keep you down, or torments or drains you, they should be shunned. It doesn’t help to keep going to a dry well or stay loyal to people who treat you badly. Things became clearer for me when I realized most of my family members are enemies of my soul and spiritual progress in life. Anyone who tries to disempower or hurt you should go f*** themselves, even if they’re family.

    • So beautifully put, Rennie. I don’t believe we’re put on this Earth to allow others to harm us. Sometimes amputation is the only effective method of self-preservation from people related to you who want you hurt.

      Blood is thicker than water,sure. I’ve noticed this most acutely when relatives have tried to spill or drain some of mine.

  53. Maybe what Pluto in Capricorn is destroying is a false and twisted expression of family- abuse, malice, hate- and replacing it with its true one, which is often found in those outside a person’s bloodline. I love the saying “Friends are God’s apology for your family.”

  54. My hubby’s mom ( Capricorn) passed away in late April. She was the glue. I can see us staying in touch with his sister, as they are close. There’s been a fracture between the brothers ( both Scorpios) for a long time & they’ve really tried to hold it together for their Mom’s sake. We are all working together to take apart her condo & it’s been outwardly peaceful & inwardly seething. I suspect that a split is coming, & for me, I will welcome it. As a Pisces, I feel all that unexpressed stuff & it drives me nuts to be near it. I’ve tried to help by doing solitary tasks ( thank you notes, going through old pictures, sorting out paperwork… while the others do tasks more in their wheelhouse)

    Then there’s my family of origin. Like some above: crazy mom/ quiet dad. Mom did her best to divide & conquer all of us…I rarely see my brothers, tho we did come together for my dads birthday (93!) and circled around each other rather uncomfortably. No fights, just no connection….

    And the family my hubby & I created….only one lives nearby, but the youngest is making a move back towards home within the year—& our middle one is trying to talk his wife into moving back also. I am the glue for our family, I love having my boys around–& their wives!

  55. Way Bandy, a top celebrity, fashion, and movie makeup artist (and author of two beauty books) in the 1970s and 1980s, said that he’d had a difficult childhood in Alabama, before coming to NYC and reinventing himself. He worked for top magazines and photographers, and did the makeup for everyone from Catherine Deneuve to Barbra Streisand, and said he learned about makeup by painting portraits in his youth. Anyway…..

    He is said to have said once, “I think that family may just be the conduit to the rest of your life.”

    That always stuck with me; and for many, I think it can be true. If you read historical biography, schisms in families, from royals to everyday people, have occurred for hundreds of years.

    BTW, Way Bandy was born Aug 9, 1941 in Birmingham, Alabama, but always his his birth date.

  56. Thanks to all who have spoken so frankly about family dynamics. ScottishFoldSoul expressed the thought that it is a healthy action to have the courage to amputate (Pluto) toxic family situations and create a new family of your choosing. Think of the phoenix–after the fire you get new feathers. Hope they are bright feathers!

    Much to my chagrin I am not a destination relative. People fly through this city on their way elsewhere but innumerable times have opted not to stop even though my city is full of attractions. I have extended invitations. Oh well, when I said I would fly to attend my mom’s brother’s funeral, saying thoughtfully I would stay at a nearby hotel so as not to impose on my aunt (my mom and one of my sisters were already booked to stay with aunt), my mom told me not to come. I was flabbergasted. I’m good at sending gifts and cards and writing. On the positive side, my Dad’s relatives and in-laws were better at reaching out and I treasure letters from his sisters-in-law, my aunts. I carried on a one-sided correspondence with uncle’s Down syndrome son. Of course he loved getting the cards. So I did what I could. My Mom has better synastry with the sister she had go with her. So I would like closeness and participation but I understand when a new course of action is advisable. My friends are original and smart and I am grateful for their love.

    • Thanks for mentioning your sisters better synastry with your mother. Good synastry leads to good relationships. Bad synastry leads to bad relationships. Why does hardly anybody understand this, even among those, who know astrology?

  57. I have Uranus in the 4th. My family of origin has never been close. It’s always been dysfunctional and chaotic and the dynamics are often too difficult to explain to outsiders. My mother just moved in with us but I’m not close to her either. (Saturn square Moon)

    However, I saw my SO’s family destroyed after his paternal grandparents died right around the time Pluto entered Capricorn. They were the glue that held his family together. The family hasn’t been the same since. After the passive-aggressive bloodletting over division of estate, and the occasional wedding and funeral, we hardly ever see them. Nor do we want to. I do miss his grandparents something terrible though. They were wonderful welcoming people who made the rest of the family bearable. That’s probably why they avoid each other now 😜

  58. Wow, I followed the link for the Neptune retrograde and saw the teaser – Pluto in Capricorn, Family Destroyer. I can fully relate to that. Father passed suddenly in my childhood and siblings left with an abusive mother who demanded family loyalty on every level. She devoted her time and energy to the eldest – a son, who in turn took on her personality anomalies. I put up with this nonsense for years, but eventually realized my family was a dead end. My mother passed in 201l, and I haven’t looked back. During my adult years, I was determined not to be like her – judgemental, nasty, opinionated and distanced myself. Now I have no contact with my older sibling, and the same is coming true for the youngest. He has become a chronic, abusive alcoholic. My experience working with astrology has been very beneficial in pointing out to me that everything happens for a reason. My family, for better or worse, has been a teaching tool. But I no longer want an association with them. In the end, I am much happier without them

  59. Thanks for noticing, Falkor. Nothing beats good synastry. One can still perceive that another has value but know that one’s own qualities do not attract the other.

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