Men Avoiding Women At Work – Sex – Pluto In Capricorn

Pluto roman godWith Pluto in Capricorn, most people realize they can lose their job, their status and their security, in a blink. The average man is more careful about how he interacts with a woman in the workplace.

It’s hard to say if this is good or bad. On one hand, I sued my boss for sexual harassment when I was seventeen years old, back before it was even a thing. I’m talkin’ pre-Anita Hill. So I’m clearly not for it. But I do have Libra and I can see the other side of this. Sides, I should say.

There are bound to be people who avoid hiring women, when possible, to reduce their risk of exposure to these types of charges. I know it this to be true because my own husband told me he avoided talking to women at work, as much as he could, for the trouble it might cause. This was back in 2011, long before #metoo

Men Avoid Talking To Woman To Avoid Trouble

He was talking about this in 2011 but his decision was made at least ten years prior to that. I guess he figured he’s at work to make money – period.

I wonder how women feel about this, particularly women who work with men.  Have you noticed any changes in how men interact with you?

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Men Avoiding Women At Work – Sex – Pluto In Capricorn — 49 Comments

  1. My husband says the same thing, that he would be hesitant to hire a woman at all if we were still in business. We had 100+ employees at one time. Once we were sued because a woman employee claimed sexual harassment. Turns out the guy was rubbing his tummy and saying he was hungry in Spanish. Or at least that’s what he claimed. She didn’t win the suit, but we still had to pay the lawyer. Another woman tried extortion with a sex tape. Come to think of it, I’m glad to not have employees in general!

  2. Pluto chart ruler and Mars-Pluto conjunction. I feel I am a walking target, thanks to all that Scorpio. Fortunately I am now aware of the sexual charge that Pluto can send out, often unintentionally, so the responsibility is on me to protect myself – in other words, how do I avoid?!

    It can be a double edged sword in that there were times it was clear I was hired because of my Pluto vibe, and other times I did not get a job because of it, as some man once said to me “I would love to hire you, but you’re a dangerous woman to have in this testosterone fueled environment; I like you barefoot and pregnant in my kitchen”!

    The thing is, when you strip this modern lifestyle we’ve adopted, we’re still animals and the urge to procreate is primal. Also we spend ~40 hours a week confined in buildings or in close proximity with the opposite sex and this innate primal tension is bound to arise. Perhaps this partly explains why ~15% of couples meet in the workplace. The workplace has become an increasingly complex place for human interaction – consider also gender fluidity and how we think of and define harassment.

    Please note I am NOT CONDONING any form of harassment to any person; female, male, gender fluid or otherwise!

    • I think that’s pretty bad. While to take down my mask a bit I am unsure about the specificities of the expressions of carnal affections i.e. is there a level where that was appropriate in showing positive attention to attractiveness, I have often reflected when I was young (emphasis on my movie star looking self in 20’s not now) about being treated differently from looking good and I feel I should make sure not to treat attractive women differently as well.

      There are psychological things I perceive in some attractive women, deeper/ intelligent attractive women that I don’t often perceive otherwise.

      Seriously, if the ‘testosterone fuelled environment’ can’t control itself it needs to take a hike. Same with the estrogen filled one and the bitchiness.

      • Hmmmmm you’ve raised another angle, the possible “misuse of power”. I think that’s very much Pluto in Cap territory.

    • Pluto is also my chart ruler, in Libra, in my 12th no less, and in my twenties every male I worked with or even met through work (be it at a client’s place, minding my own business and having lunch or even the GP I saw during work hours when I had the flu!) wanted to sleep with me. It was a literal job hazard. Not only that, at the time I had Tr NN on Mars.

      My husband is now my employer so you could say I’m still sleeping with the boss. 😛

  3. I think this definitely happens. About a year ago I did quite a few job interviews and one place I interviewed with, which had a quite incredible interview process (it was a company linked with security), when I took a tour of the place, out of about four rooms of 20 people, I did not notice one attractive woman. Not one. It was definitely the kind of job you would often see women doing. Call centre/ customer service but not sales based.

    I could imagine that company, where I felt quite closely monitored at interview, would carefully sort attractive woman away from the business.

  4. I work out in the field as a home care aide. Can’t imagine how weird office life in America must be now. So far I’ve noticed no difference. I pretty much keep to myself anyway.

    With that being said, if this weirdness between men and women keeps up, I think we may see a return to the days when men worked at the office and women tended the home. Basically a dismantling of feminism. Maybe that works better?

    • Or a reversal of roles?

      Regulus shifted from Leo to Virgo, from Lion to Lioness, from King to Queen, from God to Goddess…

      • Interesting, I never thought of that! It does seem like there’s an increased focus on women these days. I thought it was just due to the North Node in Cancer.

    • Maybe there will be more roles where people can work remotely so they don’t have to go into the office as much. Or maybe employers will look to hiring women of a certain age, women they once passed over due to – ironically – age or family responsibilities. Maybe the workplace will be more friendly towards mothers – people too busy juggling to be hypersensitive to comments or office politics. At the very least, the best practice will be to hire no one with a profile filled with holidaying and bikini shots. Forget labelling 26 year olds “wise beyond their years”. I’ve seen that and it is offensive to all of mankind, not just womankind because it implies the average old person is just a sagging bag of bones. Call me conservative but professionalism extends beyond the appropriate attire one is wearing around the office to all aspects of a person’s public profile.

  5. It’s not just sexual harrassment complaints. If a wrong word towards a hyper offended individual becomes office gossip then all sorts of problems can come about. At that point it is not the individual per sey but the group that is also the problem. It could conceivably happen that the original person who got ‘offended’ decides to look at the situation in a kinder light and third parties continue to cause problems.

    I was going for an office job recently and thinking ahead I wondered if I just avoid all social events full stop with work colleagues. There are people that do that comfortably in an office environment.

    • Exactly. That’s the interesting thing – that when in a group dynamic, humans can display rather odd and irrational behavior. I think when you’re the new person in a company, you’re the outsider and everyone around you is trying to assess whether you’re a friend or foe; particularly, the alpha male or the queen bee. Much like in high school! As annoying as it may be, you’re probably better off trying to fit-in; by attending a few strategic social events, charming the alpha male and feeding the queen bee some honey so that you don’t get labeled “a cultural misfit” or worse “not a team player”.

      I think work environments today are a lot like the TV Show “Survivor” and can be as bad as in the book “Lord of the Flies”. Maybe at the end of the day we should just be ourselves and everything else will take care of it’s self. I have Leo MC, so even if I tried to be inconspicuous, I always find myself front and center.

      • I know how to play the game OW, you should have seen the icey charm of my email informing that business I couldn’t attend the recruitment day. Honest but giving my due to corporate claptrap and saying all the necessary negative things while wording was short and apparently positive.

        I feel my intelligence is wasted in such endeavors.

        May still go for another office job I have had intuitions around a certain place I interviewed with before. I liked this post though, ‘Survivor’ and ‘Lord of the Flies’? I rather like the symbology of the joker in the Dark Knight though. ‘Their morals are a bad joke, easily dropped at the first sign of trouble’.

        The real secret I think is to have a life outside work. Especially with girls. You say when asked that you are single but there are ‘always girls around’ and you go dancing and socialise a lot etc. you get no trouble or projection.

  6. I think it’s progress. There will be hiccups on the road but I think (I hope) we won’t go back! More equality for all. This doesn’t imply men and women are the same, but there’s been a culture of ignoring bad behavior that is now changing.

  7. About a year ago I was excited to rent an office I had been on a waiting list to get. I went in to sign the paperwork, and the property manager brought up politics. I tried to duck it but he was pretty pushy. He asked me if I would be having business meetings in my office. It felt over-stepping but I bit my tongue and said of course. He asked me my thoughts about the Vice President and his wife attending certain meetings with him to ensure women can’t later malign the Vice President. I could feel it… this guy was winding me up. I took the bait and although I rarely do it – I let him have it. I make a living doing work that I absolutely love, that is traditionally considered a very male sport. I am a good player. I am skilled. I am ethical and don’t take short cuts. I play as well or better than any boy. And to do so, I have to work with men and work even harder at being read as professional. I have to work at being not too hard, still likable — all the woman crap men don’t have to think about. It takes a ton of work, and we are all tired of hearing about that part of it.

    When my young nieces grow up my wish is they will ask me about the past, and say are you serious? This stuff was a thing? Men got paid more than you because… they were men and you were a woman? Men got to refuse to let you sit in a room with them to discuss business, because their wife wasn’t chaperoning? Wouldn’t it have been weird to bring your boyfriend who knows nothing about your business to chaperone a meeting? Yeah, darling niece. It would have been weird. It is weird.

    It’s better than it was in my grandmother’s life. Better than in my mom’s and it get’s better in this one too every day, but not for not doing hard work on both sides. That’s a Cap thing right? Boundaries are serious business. I have traveled a lot with men for business and I am super careful about clear messages and being rock solid about boundaries. Because to not travel with men for business or attend meetings or business meals, literally and figuratively keeps me from the table. And to play I have to be at the table. To fight for it, I have to be super on top of how I present. So the fact that some men feel really pressured about how they present doesn’t surprise me at all. And no longer concerns me either. I’ve noticed it’s begun to be casually mentioned too often by men lately. I get it, but I’m working my butt off over here too. So let’s get on with it, and move on. I have not ever had an issue. Issues I have had? Men who tell me they are afraid to talk to women because women have the power to ruin their lives if they don’t like what we say or do. Well, being harassed is pretty rough too and I wish I had been as solid as Elsa was at 17 and recognized that no one is helped when bad behavior is not called out. The world is filled with people with experiences and perspectives not our own. Good thing! and I’m calling that out. But being sensitive is professional, powerful and empowering. Some men refusing to talk to women because we will wreck them is just as offensive as some women being less than impeccable with the facts of an incident. Am sure not every man intends this. But it’s a risk for women every day too. Sure some women could do better. We can all do better. But I am not going to stop trying to compete and sit at the table because men are scared to be around women. I’m uncomfortable with some of them too. But in the past 20 years or banging my head against the wall — it’s getting better. I’m getting better, so are men. P.S. It sure was a great office. Someone else rents it now I’m sure. I found a better one. 😊

  8. I think Pluto in Cap is concerned about its own power. And most of all in keeping that power to itself without sharing it.

    And one of the ways this manifests is by being either an a-hole towards women (as a way of keeping them down to not step over you and gain power or file a sexual haressment) – or it could be like talking down to women or just not talking to women at all.

    I have experienced managers who were so concerned about their own business power they maltreated me, and companies being so controlling on their employees that I had to quit. I have also seen men who have been smart enough to fight for women’s causes. One of them is my BF.
    My ex was a cap moon and he could not stand critique from ANY woman.

    This week my boss’ boss tried to verbally undermine her in front of two other visitors. He is from Romania and is not great with a more modern or inclusive approach. Only when OTHERS (read: other men) tells him he is wrong, will he listen.

    I am applying for another job by the way……..

  9. I work in a large firm in a department that’s all men. Two are gay-so there’s the assumption they won’t harass you- but I take it in stride when one sent me a racy cartoon-I will leave the rest to your imagination-but I am an older woman and so between them being gay and myself being almost a Senior, I didn’t take it offensively, though it’s not my thing. The other guys are very matter of fact, but we can talk and joke around too. Though just the other day a younger man noticed my pedicure and how it matched my outfit. Again, I could be his mother so I just told thank you and said to him I was tired off feeling dull and even got glitter on my nails, that sometimes it’s just fun to feel like a woman for a change instead of one of the guys…we laughed and he understood. We were in the elevator. I did not feel threatened in the least but since we handle Employee cases of all kinds, I was kinda surprised. But he’s a nice guy and I can tell the difference. I have been harassed plenty of times in other places and there is a difference between friendly banter and harassment. So no, men not have ceased speaking with me or my female co workers either. We feel pretty secure.

  10. This makes me glad to be 60 something. I am the oldest person at my workplace. I am grandma. But yes, I have heard that companies are avoiding hiring young women with all the ‘he looked at me wrong’ extremes. I don’t deny that sexual harassment still goes on. And I definitely know that age discrimination goes on. There really are no common sense rules about what is sexual harassment. It seems to be the judgement of the accuser.

    I Bidened a young woman on the arm at work about a year ago and it was a major uproar. I was shocked coming from the peace love groovy generation. I did not even remember doing it. Those of us who touch each other on the arm or on the hand spent months doing the ‘omg I touched your arm, or whatever, I’m so sorry’ and ‘no problem I am not like that’ until we weaned ourselves from touching altogether. This young woman said she doesn’t even let her husband hug her or touch her. Say what? The funeral of a co-worker was in the church and you know that part where you shake hands in peace, well when I turned around to the people behind me, another young woman said don’t shake my hand, I don’t like to be touched. Say what? The human resource person is another young woman who does not like to be touched so she is all about this. I think they must have been lepers in a past life.

    • I think the younger generation may have differnt DNA with all the bringing up in technology. There is a young man in my bus line that I was going to let go ahead of me (I forget why) and I just started out to say “please go ahead…” and he turned around and said “I do NOT owe you a conversation”. Say what indeed!He does not like to be spoken to or near anyone. He’ll stand behind us all texting on is phone until we are all on the bus. Apparently he is also is very hostile per his office mates and what they have told me. I find it very sad.

    • Lol. The irony is these young women probably have instas filled them in micro shorts (with baby in winter no less) and bikinis. And if you question them about how appropriate it is applying for a professional job when they have their bits on display for the world to see, they will say you have a “negative attitude towards other women.” The world is a strange place nowadays.

      • I thought about this some and all that came up is something that I read somewhere that said, After 55 you are a minority. And I wouldn’t go back for the world. It often feels as if I am hiding in plain sight.

  11. The whole topic feels super weird to me, Pluto or not. Are we sure we live in the same world? I am frequently the only woman in a meeting full of men of all age groups. It has been so for the 14 years that I have been part of the corporate workforce on 3 continents. I travel, eat, work in close proximity to men ALL THE TIME, sometimes with just one or two colleagues too. It would be hilarious if our respective partners acted jealous/chaperoned us. I was/am still considered reasonably attractive. It has not been a problem even once!!

    Most days, I would consider myself and other people gender neutral at workplace. When we work, we are just employees. With the new generation (10+ years younger than me), I even see barriers of age coming down. One of my close female friends (6+ years younger than me) just got a top job. She will manage 15 or so 50 year old men.
    I think the older generation, men and women included, should leave sexual politics at home. Younger employees literally don’t care about your gender, attractiveness, marital status or age. We need to collectively get over these hangups, if they still bother us.

    • You make excellent points. Thank you.

      I can tell you from moving ‘cross country (US), my new town has very little in common with my old city.
      Many years ago, well 12 years ago or so, my husband predicted that our country (US) would become factionalized, which it has.

      I don’t think you’re right about “young people”. Young people in your milieu, sure. But if your exited your milieu, I think you’d find that the solidarity of your (or any) generation is a myth.

      I’m pretty sure I am right, because I work with everyone. Bridge people like me are important; acting as conduits between factions.

      • I think you are right in saying that solidarity of any generation is a myth, Elsa. Of course, your work with the cross section of humanity is priceless in terms of a realistic sample size of predicting human behaviour. I realize that this is the same world as ‘metoo’ and terrible sexual abuses women endure every day. So perhaps, middle managers or top bosses in America are not hiring attractive young women anymore. Well, it’s their loss really.

        My point was that younger generation is less likely to alter their behaviour on the basis of people’s gender and age…especially not talk to women for fear of being accused of sexual misdemeanour. It would be considered very odd/potentially career destroying in nearly all corporate circles, America included. How can you not talk to key contributors of your team! And I just don’t mean “talk” about work. When people work in close proximity as teams, even if you have a bias in your personal life, at work it dissolves because this person is literally an extention of your own brain…pointing their life energy in the same direction as the goals you have set for yourself. Not relating or talking is a virtual impossibility. Just my personal observations though, in a white collar super organized mega corporate culture. Maybe in some industries it doesn’t work that way.

        • Perhaps change will happen more swiftly when the young people or more Millenlials or more women have decision making corporate roles. We can’t ignore the stark fact that this is the Pluto in Scorpio generation. Pluto in his home base is a powerful engine of transformation – look at how many industries this generation alone has transformed by debunking the status quo.

          As the Millenials come through their 1st Saturn Return (in Capricorn), I suspect we’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg. There is already movement turning to authority, out dated structures, governments, those who have fathered the current environment we live in. Jan 2020’s Saturn-Pluto conjunction in Capricorn, may not only be the dawn of a new decade, but also that of transforming the old guards (Capricorn).

          Everyone can feel the change coming, just reading through the topic “Effects of the Saturn-Pluto Conjunction by House” you can hear the fear. It’s unsettling because this big change might not yet have a visible outward face yet (T.Neptune in Rx). But that’s how Pluto works sometimes, from the depths and behind the scenes. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a feminine face, after all Regulus is now in Virgo.

          It may have taken a few centuries, but it’s about time!

          • That’s an interesting perspective, Osiris Wife! I hadn’t connected it to Saturn Return of Pluto in Scorpio generation (I am one). I for one, am all for more inclusive work places. Let it be safe for all, everywhere, so we can fulfill our personal destiny.

      • Perhaps they had good reason to? I don’t know your story but going to human resources with a complaint (genuine or not) is about as fun as getting your teeth pulled without anaesthetics. Someone has to be really pissed and must have found the situation unbearable, when they pulled you there.

  12. We should understand experiencing these issues IS subjective- but there are Scientific studies going on finding differences in people born in a certain group, that denotes there is a difference. It could be hyperbole B.S. I think this “bashing” is not right to do to any one group and I only speak subjectively with how I have been treated and in context of this blog post. I offer examples but they are not proof of anything either. One thing is for sure, we are definitely fractionalized as a Nation. I’m Sue if you’ve been on here long enough you can see the Astrology or have read here how and why Astrologically.

    And not to sound patronizing, though it could be taken that way, I love many young people in my office and truly enjoy our “Water Cooler” chats. I don’t have kids so I like being around them. They are mostly fun and bright-as well as very sweet.

    • I had to focus my brain to follow what you said, and that exercise was a treat. Thanks, Sag Mercury Dawn. 🙂 I have Aries Mercury, opposed by Scorpio Neptune, by the by.

      • Thanks Poppy! Sometimes though, I don’t even make sense to myself!…lol I’m glad though it gave your brain a boost! Thank s always a good thing😌

  13. I think the reason so many men fear their interactions with women is because they know that they have, at some point, been inappropriate or made a woman uncomfortable (or worse). Why fear punishment or exposure or accusations for something you’ve never done?

    I work in a male dominated industry and I haven’t noticed any change in the behavior of the men I work with, or their treatment of me. I am not easily offended, and I know the difference between jokes and true insult or shitty behavior. I am also an aggressive/assertive type. Most men do not see me as a target, if they DID have plans to harass. The ones who do learn very quickly that they’ve chosen poorly.

    • I honestly cannot like this comment more, if I pressed a hypothetical ‘LOVE THIS!!!’ button a million times! Men are not imbecile, good natured idiots we make them to be. They know exactly what they are doing and the effect it has on other people. If you have been shitty to women in the past and have directly/indirectly paid for it or fear that you would, you would do well to stay out of trouble.
      Conversely, men who have gotten away with shitty behaviour in the past get more and more emboldened till someone calls them out on it or stands up to them. Also, women KNOW the difference between an honest compliment and lecherous behaviour as clear as night and day. When I did face harassment a few times in my life (not from direct teammates or bosses, but known assholes in the workplace), I froze, but knew immediately that it wasn’t honest fun banter but harrassment.
      I say, more power to young women in workplaces in all types of industries! They will bring more prudent energy and weed out toxic masculinity, making workplaces safer for all.

  14. my male family members have told me if there is a very attractive woman at their workplace, she is always having a sour face on her look, like stay the hell away from me. LOL but they tell me she wears really nice clothing that accentuates her nice model-like figure, and her face is a beauty but when you look at her, it looks like she has been harassed by men alot to give that look of you better get the hell away from me buddy or i’ll call the cops on you. LOL but she still enjoys wearing and dressing nicely so that’s good. Maybe it’s the “looks” that men give her. Men can’t help it, but be appreciative of beauty …i mean they have lots of instagram models these days and plenty of beauty magazines to make a woman look lovely and we all want some kind of attention, but don’t make inappropriateness. Just admire from far away LOL

  15. Honestly. I dont think its a good idea for men and women to work together.

    How the Native Americans lived (in regards to the genders) is more authentic to who we are as spiritual beings. Each sex having their own spiritual domain within life.

    My natural role, meaning where my happiness resides, is as a nurturer and holder of sacred space. Im not a hunter.

    Nowadays theres none of that. Everyone is a worker bee, a cog in the machine, disconnected from who they are and being fed propaganda. They will tell you that what Im saying is sexist, but that couldnt be further from the truth. Its about honoring our place in the Universe.

    • I live in Scandinavia, where in modern societies, men are the nurturers – doing almost all of cooking and a LOT of childcare. Women typically take care of cleaning and almost always work full time too. For a society that was first Viking and then hunter/gatherer and later farming focussed, they have made a smooth transition to a more equal society without hiding behind ‘natural roles of men and women’. Why can’t rest of the world too?!

  16. I work in all male environments. Frequently I am the only woman in a meeting, or there may be one other. I live in the north east. Had a long talk with a woman who is 25 years my senior, and I told her flirtation is out of the picture when working with men. You don’t even go there. When working with a group of guys, if you loose their respect you are toast. So we never comment on appearance, and I try to keep my personal life out of my business life, but I am honorable and for the most part this works well for us. I studied engineering,and that was all male as well. My graduate degree was 50 percent female 50 percent male. But I town down my looks at work – I always wear a suit jacket – I look nice – but very 10th house sun. So I am very cut and dried. The woman who was 25 years my senior (I am in my 50’s) said taking the flirtation out is like taking the mystery out of life. I told her you keep it out of the work environment. I was fortunate in my generation and the companies I have worked for, they nip trouble in the bud. Lots and lots of training on sexual harrasment and power imbalances. (IE – I cannot go there with the men I work with as I am senior to many of them so I don’t) I don’t think your husband’s strategy of not borrowing trouble was a bad one. I never date men I work with – as it causes trouble if you do. This is about team building and respect…but we don’t always get it right even if our heart is in the right place. I think this is a regional thing – different areas have a different way of dealing with things. I have had some trouble in the past and have had to deal with it. One Fed kept asking me out – (contracturally he cannot do that) but I told the Contracting Officer – and this stopped. Rules you know.

  17. Seems like it’s mostly women here, but for what it’s worth… I’m a Cap rising man with an 8th house Leo stellium of Mars, Venus, Merc, and the sun. I love sex. So much. Shocker, I know. But at work, it feels like the drive gets blocked, and I still can’t explain it. Evolutionary protective impulse maybe. But I can’t say it’s the fear of getting sued for me. I know there’s a way to go about things where if sex were to happen you’d make sure both parties are interested in sex via subtle and open cues and let thing build organically. And where it would start off as a sexy friendship that could possibly build into more. I know a lot of women respect that process with men at work their attracted to and won’t just sue without cause. And I’ve had a bunch of female coworkers seem to show interest in being friends and getting to know me more at least on that level. And some of them are really intriguing and I’d like to get to know them more too. But there’s a block, and something deep in me frequently doesn’t even allow that. I feel bad when I’m the reason a possible connection, even if it doesn’t go beyond friendship, is delayed or discontinued, but there’s something about work that derails the vibe that would otherwise bring men and women together even in just meaningful friendships. I can’t say it’s a logical on my end, it just seems like there’s a deeper emotional block or incongruence between me and the women, and that sense of limitation seems to kills whatever would be there, and it seems it’s disappointing to the women, and I feel bad about it too. Not sure if this is common to all men – I am a cap rising, so maybe it’s just me.

    • This is very interesting!

      I suspect another contributing factor might come from the fact that the work place has become the modern day battlefield, where men hunt. Consider the Caveman Theory, so perhaps the biological instinct to protect might be switched off when you’re hunting. Another view is on compartmentalizing – apparently this is how the majority of male brains function ie work is work.

      That all said, the astrology is fascinating to me, so I also wondered if you have Moon aspecting your Saturn?

      • Yeah, my moon in gem and just about exactly opposite my Saturn in sag. So compartmentalization makes sense. And the hunter view makes sense when focused through the light of compartmentalization. My question would then be if men (or just me perhaps) are operating out of primitive psychological impulse in avoiding women at work, do women have a different impulse orientation based on divergent evolutionary circumstances? And also, is it a big problem if men like me do end up avoiding the women, either intentionally or unintentionally? I know I’ve been avoided by women at times, it’s just a part of life for men, even the “alphas.” I’ve heard some women say they are afraid of being left out and working in a place that turns into a boys club, which is understandable. From a man’s point of view, the boys club itself is not ideal. I think of the hunt: it’s nice to have companionship but the more men you bring along the more time you have to spend coordinating roles, making plans, and navigating hierarchies, and you also have to give up more of the kill to share with the rest of the hunting party, so less food for you. I think for that reason a lot of men form small cliques naturally but usually there is usually one well defined person running the clique with a couple of lackeys under him. And for my part, I’ve never been really interested in being dominant over lackeys but I also don’t want to be one, so staying in my own lane or going it alone seems to be the best choice from that perspective. That being said, I don’t mind having friendships with men that are more or less on equal footing in the power dynamics, and I wouldn’t mind having more or better friendships with the women on similar terms, but it seems like the basis of the connection would be eternally unclear, E.g., are we able to be friends if we’re both trying to advance in a competitive environment with limited resources? And barring any competitive factors, how would the power dynamics come in to play? I know a lot of women would like a larger stake in power in the workplace, and at times as a man who’s wanted to enable them in that endeavor, sometimes it leaves you feeling like a just a resource for them or even a useful idiot. If I hear correctly women’s complaints about their treatment through the centuries, I’d say I agree that’s not a position anyone would want to be put in. Men in power sometimes even treat other men like that. It’s just one of the problems of power. And it makes me wonder why do people need so much to attach to groups and situations that unavoidably create power dynamics. I’m totally fine with women in the workplace with men – saw in an earlier post someone proposing segregation as a better alternative, but I’m not sure that would fix our underlying power problems. That being said, if we are working together, unfortunately I’ve come to feel it’s best to stay in our own lanes and keep our friendships and romances out of the office. I get that we have to work together for 8 hours a day, etc. But it’s the hunt now for women too, so you have to decide if you want to be the leader of the pack with all the problems that brings. Or if you want to be a follower with all of its own problems. Or if you’d like to be independent, which is my preference. And once you adjust to needing less contact and handling and validation from other individuals or the group structure, it’s not that bad I think. I do have my core romantic and friendship situations in place outside of work and am confident if those fail the universe will provide other reasonable alternatives. And speaking of independence, it just occurred to me when you see mountain goats climbing mountains, you typically see them alone or in small numbers but separated. I guess getting to that summit in life is a truly personal and individual thing. I feel that way about work at least.

    • that’s good u have the “fear” of getting sued. this is where the “law” of men, works for a society to keep in ‘order” 😀 I mean, honestly, look at the caveman days (the image of Neanderthal men hitting a woman over the head and dragging her to his cave) ok that’s not pleasant, and they had to keep “territorial” of their women as property, so modern days it’s more like, the social order of human law that will work. Or religious too, (God’s law, because of karma action)

      but your comment sounds like you just love women in general. ^^
      I’ve had guys talk me up and I had to “cock block” them and tell them they are friendzoned. lol a lot of men with big egos don’t like that xDD when I tell guys in the past they are friendzoned many leave for good and never to be seen again. sigh.

      • Elisa, you are right – I do love women. Women are inspiring, and I enjoy female energy. I’m glad we’re out of the last Pluto-Saturn cycle that has seemed to put the genders at odds so often when we really don’t need to be. I believe there’s enough space in this world for everyone to carve out a niche, and in this new Pluto-Saturn cycle, I’m hoping some long term planning (Saturn in Cap) and willingness to get real about our deepest needs (Pluto in Cap) will push the motivated folks of the world to strive for that ideal while giving everyone around them their due space.

        And as far as ego goes, I have a massive one, but it’s good for survival and I try not to let it become a burden or annoyance to others. Everyone is entitled to be the center of their own universe as long as they don’t infringe on others being the centers of their own universes lol. Might seem like a chaotic ideal, but a little chaos is fun, and as a Leo I appreciate other people’s egos just as much as my own. Love the cocky ones as long as they’re not rude or annoying.

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