Liking A Person Who Many Loathe

mars comicHave you ever liked someone who most people really don’t like? I am in this situation now.

I don’t have a lot of experience with it, because I tend to like charismatic people, who are funny and social. This man is like that, but this is different. People do not like him! I keep finding this out, over and over. I’m stupefied, because I think he’s great – really great!

It’s not that I can’t see why they have a complaint about him, but the charges seem so MINOR. The positive about him so overwhelms whatever irks them, I just can’t understand why they want to constantly oppose him.

I believe most his offenses occur because he’s from another culture.  When the man says, “toon fine” when he means “fine tune”, this is a reminder, right? Is that not charming?

I just laugh and laugh, but I see others seethe and seethe.

What is it about some of us who just PISS PEOPLE OFF?  I know I do this too. It’s not intentional!

Years ago a very smart astrologer, “Claire-France Perez,” told me that anyone with Mars conjunct Mercury in their chart was going to draw fire.  That’s gotta be it, right?

This guy is trying to go from A to B in a way that seems normal to me, but he just can’t seem do it without stepping on all kinds of feet.  It’s so funny. Picture it! Picture someone trying to walk down a hall and everyone has their foot sitting there to be stepped on.

Why don’t they pull their feet in?  Does anyone know?

I gotta tell you, I love this guy. I think he’s the bombdiggety. But boy does he get shot at. I wonder how many times a day, people tell him he sucks.

Last night, he said it was okay. There were thirty people or so. “But when there is 1000 of you, I’m afraid,” he added.

I was the only one in the group who laughed and laughed and laughed at that. I don’t even know it it was a joke. It may have been a statement of fact. But it was a joke to me, because the people don’t realize how scary they are. But they are scary.  When you get all up in a tree, over just about anything – that’s scary!

This has been interesting for me.  The guy can’t do anything right, even when he’s doing nothing wrong.   Everyone seems to BADLY want to him to go to hell.  This is pretty funny, seeing as he’s a priest! Ha. Ha. Ha.

So what is it about people like him or people like them, that sets up this kind of friction?  People want to like you, but they JUST. CAN’T. DO. IT. It’s like no, no, no and no – you are not going to be liked, because you’re a bastard or a bitch, or whatever it is you are, when in reality, you’re just…nothing.  You’re just living, and doing what you are called to do.

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Liking A Person Who Many Loathe — 79 Comments

  1. I posted this and realized if someone read it, they would come try to tell why this guy is horrible. It’s happened already many times. They would try to explain it to me…and I would stand there, with my poker-face, feeling incredulous, but smiling and nodding. I’d be wondering if they could even hear themselves.

    I’m telling you, there are some of us out there and we trigger people this way. They act like a dog with a bone. I have had long discussions about this with people and guess how they end?

    “I can see your point, Elsa. I agree with everything you said…BUT HE’S STILL A blah, blah, blah.

    It’s like they are possessed or something. A dog chasing it’s tail as if it were a bone.

    I feel sorry for the priest, but hey! Tough luck, buddy. I’ve got it bad too!

    But I will do this for ya. I’ll be seen laughing at your jokes and otherwise, openly showing my appreciation for you. Not sure it will sway anyone, but since you can’t leave or anything, at least you’ll know you have some allies.

    But turning these people around? Good luck! For that to happen, they’d have to be wrong and what are the odds of *that*?

    ::laughs::

  2. So interesting and true! There’s a mob mentality, too. You think it only happens in middle school, but I’ve seen this all the time at work. You don’t want to be the one being chased, so you join in with everyone else to crush the other person with the ‘weakness’. The focus is off of you, then.

    Interesting with Mars mashed with Mercury. I also wonder if a Scorpio moon could contribute. I have this, and it doesn’t happen all the time, but I can be a lightning rod for other people’s crap, scapegoating, etc. I’ve been addressing this lately in depth. It’s good to stand up to the first whiff of being chased, or the mob rushes in!

  3. Well here is the thing. The person(s) will be caught on some item(s). The item(s) are variable, but the pattern is not.

    For example, someone thinks that this priest should have done, A, B and C. What he did was C, B and A. And that he did the stuff out of order, ultimately had no affect. But the person wants that A,B, and C….and Ill tell you what. They may even be right. A, B and C, WOULD have been smarter, better or whatever. But was the man malicious? No. Was he reckless? No. All he did is act outside how they thought he would, or thought he should.

    Now he can hear about the upset and he can apologize for it. He can explain his intention but the fact remains – HE DID NOT DO WHAT WAS EXPECTED. And that’s where they get caught.

    That the man is doing good and doing right is irrelevant. It’s not enough for this kind of person or personality. Doing your best, doing good, doing right, is not enough for them to let go of the A, B, C thing.

    So conversation goes like this:

    “I don’t think he meant to offend you. He probably doesn’t know – he probably had no idea. It didn’t occur him.”
    “Well it should have occurred to him.”
    “Yeah, that would have been better…”

    So we go on like that and they agree and I agree, but at the end of the conversation, I think the guy is okay and they think he is a bastard because he didn’t do A. B. C.

    Now if you tell him, he did not do A, B, C, he’ll be surprised that anyone ever thought of that order. H will explain his thinking…which will make total sense, but it will not be accepted.

    It’s like the person’s religion is to oppose this one individual…with a FERVOR. So much so, they lose themselves in the process.

    Now after you’ve been bitched up and down (I speak from experience) by people who seem off the chain to you, you will WISH you’d have done A, B, C in the way they wanted. But not only will it be too late for that – you have no way of knowing where the next trip wire is, because the one you hit makes no sense to you. Your way is what makes sense to you, and it makes sense in general…it is understandable to anyone who would want to understand you, but that’s not what they want. The want to be PISSED. And they want to incite others to outrage as well.

    So in this situation, forever and always this priest is tainted by the fact he did not do A, B, C, in the order someone feels is best and because of this – EVERYTHING else is null and void. He’s got to be hated into eternity, or at least until he is no longer available to hate on, and the whole thing is an illusion.

    Now I’m sorry, but this is a very curious phenomena.

    There are several episodes I have seen with this priest but to the upset I witnessed last night, my simple question to this gal would be, “I agree. He should have called you. But he didn’t. And everything is working about anyway, so can you just forget about it?”

    Maybe that’s it. People cannot forget about things, but why not?

    I just think this phone call that was not made is tiny, tiny, tiny. But the gal (who I also like, tremendously) is caught on it and telling others how awful he is for not making the call…how unfathomable it is, how stupid he is, and on and on.

    It’s like a normally great person hits the skids, just by looking a figure with this kind of energy…energy that so obviously disrupts the energy of other people.

    And when this happens to you a million times…it happens on a daily basis, then you know that it is YOU. It is your energy causing the problem, but your energy is something you are stuck with. It was given to you and so this is just who you are and what it is. 🙂

    • Hi Elsa,
      this is very interesting indeed and the answer lies in this person himself of becoming aware of the way he behaves.

      It is a lesson he must learn in this life. The other people who are so upset with him are placed in his life to act as his teachers.

      Most important however is first to become CONCIOUS of this behaviour because only if you become CONCIOUS you can change your behaviour.

      Also the other way around – he becomes a teacher for the other persons who will not take their feet away when he stumbles over them.

      nana

  4. My scorpio moon always gets itchy when I know someone is instigating others, to turn against whomever is in their crosshairs. Lots of people do that. Sometimes I do it, but I tell you I’m on to myself with that tactic. Anyway—I think appreciating an outcast’s humor is one of the most beautiful thiings in the world. I love that you laughed Elsa. It was funny :))

  5. It is a curious phenomenon. ‘It is your energy causing the problem, but your energy is something you are stuck with. It was given to you and so this is just who you are and what it is. :)” This is profound, too. You can’t change your energy in this way, and you can’t change the other people opposing in a furor. Detachment and perseverance would be good traits to have here. I think people also forget once another crisis comes along. And boy, if a priest is catching this, too, it is a thing of human nature.

  6. I wonder if any of these people have actually talked with the priest to try and create some sort of understanding as to why they each do the things they do. That grumbling in the background can really turn ugly if it begins to snowball.
    I think I have a bit of this energy in myself. Sometimes I’m just going along doing things normally, not thinking I’m offending anyone or doing anything unusual, and then I find out people have been judging/condemning me for my innocuous ways which, by the way, have nothing to do with them and/or have no effect on them or their lives. This used to make me feel like I was in some kind of game where all the other players had the rule book, except for me. I wasted a lot of energy worrying about such things. Now I use the energy to just try to do the best I can, for myself and others, and not worry so much about how it plays out in people’s minds.
    But honestly, a lot of these problems could have been solved if someone had just come up and asked “why did you do that in that way?” We could have discussed it and maybe both of us could have left the discussion with a better understanding of each other.

    • “I wonder if any of these people have actually talked with the priest to try and create some sort of understanding as to why they each do the things they do. That grumbling in the background can really turn ugly if it begins to snowball.”

      They do talk to him! I saw a women bitch this priest out for 45 minutes last night! With 30 people watching her, a second priest and a deacon among them.

      “WHY DIDN’T YOU CALL ME? YOU SHOULD HAVE CALLED ME! IF YOU’D HAVE CALLED ME, WE WOULDN’T BE HAVING THIS PROBLEM”

      In reality, we did have a problem but it as 2% of the problem she gave us. The priest was extremely tolerant, but he does smile and say “toon fine” – and I think this is irritating too. Of course it is. He has a naturally smiling face, and light all around him.

      I thought he was just fine – of course I always do.

      There are just people out there who make others crazy and he’s definitely one of them.

      He always asks people to pray for him and I do! That’s what I wind up telling these people… “Maybe we should pray for him, that he figure it out.”

      Because what “IT” is, is pretty hard to figure out, truth be told.

  7. I experience this all the time – liking someone everyone else hates. I get along with almost everyone which is probably why it happens so much! I try to explain how what the hated person is doing is okay, like you do Elsa, but everyone just tells me I’m “too nice.” They never listen to reason. I wonder if maybe they do it because they’re bored? Its really entertaining to hate someone. Gossip and bitching are tons of fun. Another reason for hate is if people are new. I love new people and try to be really welcoming and hospitable to them, but I know a lot of people who HATE new people. It takes them MONTHS sometimes to warm up to them. Everything they do is wrong, its really sad. And half the things they do “wrong” they do exactly the same as everyone else! Then again this only applies to some new people, not all of them, and most new people who are hated in the beginning are pretty much hated until they quit.

  8. I have really never seen (or been sophisticated enough to see) such a profound example of this.

    I was sitting in front of a man during mass the other day, spitting about how the priest was an asshole (he used that word) and “looked stupid up there”?

    Excuse me, but whaaaaaaaaaaat?

    And then I turned around with the sign of peace and he was totally warm and friendly.

    I think they think everyone agrees with them, I guess. I really don’t know. But this guy catches so much hell, it’s unbelievable.

    I have had two women who I like and respect to the bone, go nuts over him and I’m sorry, but it makes no logical sense.

    With one, the priest should have called her. I do think it would have been a good idea, but what priest is thinking they should call a parishioner when there are 10,000 of us? Is this not forgivable?

    The other gal thinks he should address the congregation is a certain way…better or different than the way he has.

    I see her point as well. But he is not doing anything wrong. NOTHING WRONG.

    He says we are going to have real flowers, not fake ones and people go insane over this. Why? He is a bastard and I can’t tell why. I just can’t discern this, other than they didn’t think of it? Are they mad because they are not a priest? What is it?

    So now we have fresh flowers…and people spitting nails over it. I’m sorry but because he brought fresh flowers into the church does not mean he’s an arrogant prick. Sorry, but I don’t think he did that for himself.

    He’s trying to bring our church UP to Catholic norms and while people will acknowledge this is true, if you press them – they still hate him, because of HOW he doing it.

    It’s like having a dirty car! The guy goes to wash it, the car is getting cleaned, which it needs, but it’s the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay he cleans the car that irritates them. And what’s nuts is the way he cleans the car is not at all unconventional. It’s just not how THEY would clean a car.

    Well who the hell are they? Are they a better priest, then the priest?

    How long have they been a priest again? Never?

    Okay then.

    So you wind up with a clean car and people fuming. If this happens to you, you will not be able to turn those people – again, I speak from experience.

    • I wonder if they find his manner arrogant? The Mormon bishop I work with seems to hold a condescending mannerism and even if he’s being politely helping them he bothers them.

      • They do. They say that about him.
        He’s a Spanish man so just think of some Spanish men you’ve seen. Antonio Banderas.
        This is why I think it’s partly cultural.

        • That’s actually a good analogy. I think, Antonio is warm and lively. But I can see that he would be off-putting to some.

          “Bastard, tone it down!”
          But he can’t!

    • They are upset because the priest prefers real flowers to fake flowers? Uh, the priest has better taste than they have. Who wants dusty, stiff flowers? I wish I knew the priest. I’m one of those who usually “gets” the person that others don’t like and I enjoy an offbeat personality. And wow, someone sitting in church calling the priest an asshole within earshot of others? Wow. Something wrong there. We once had a new preacher that I just KNEW was a great big fake and I didn’t like him. Turns out my intuition was right. He was a drunk and a womanizer and he’d get up in front of 3,000 people every Sunday and be our so-called moral leader. I left that church. Not sure what connection I can make to astrology but sometime I just feel a vibe off of someone and I have learned to trust those instincts.

      • ” And wow, someone sitting in church calling the priest an asshole within earshot of others? Wow.”

        Yeah, it was incredible. This was daily mass. Weekday mass. And the man was sitting with two others and kept up a dialogue the whole time. I was sitting in the pew in front of him. Directly in front!

        This was the first daily mass of the new norms (which are actually to normal norms), and there were three priests and a deacon there.

        At first, he was saying how stupid the priest looked and I didn’t know who he was talking about. He was old – daily mass, right? So I thought he might be talking about this priest:

        http://www.elsaelsa.com/forum/astrology/wow-1/

        That priest is 26 years old (called to be a priest @ 17 years old, so I thought this old man might think he was too young or something. But then it became clear.

        The Spanish priest took the hand sanitizer off the altar. He said it was not a liturgical object. He said it in a funny (to me) way.

        “People come in and what do they see? They see, Jesus. They see a beautiful statue of Mary and what’s this? Hand sanitizer! What is that? Is that a new saint?! he asked.

        I roared, of course. That;s hysterical – especially said with a Spanish accent. But people think he’s beating them or something. Can you see the weirdness here?

        All he is doing is taking the things that don’t belong on the altar, off the altar…and he’s doing it with humor…I am sorry, but Jeez Louise.

        I really think he’s a Virgo. He’s trying to fix things, okay. FIX!

        Anyway, we got these two new priest (read about the German) and I have to tell you, I think this is one of the best things that has ever happened in my life, so you know I won’t be changing my mind about this.

        • PS, I wish I knew him too.
          I am as weird as he is. Namely, because I’m Italian, I look Italian, I look like a cradle Catholic, but in reality, I went to RCIA about 4 years ago and got confirmed just a year ago, so really, I’m a dumb ass.

          On top of that, I have a bad memory and may not be able to reliably remember words for another decade or so.

          I literally open my mouth, hoping I don’t mess up, “Our Father…”

          So you can see, I am also an accident waiting to happen.

          I am so intimidated (in reality), I have to go to broke halo.com and print a cheat sheet to go to confession….and remember what I am there to confess on top of that (I write it down!)

          So that is a lot to conceal, when you look like you’ve been going to mass for decades and decades.

          I am afraid they are going to put me in charge (of something). I’m not kidding – I am afraid of this.

          Like the Woman’s Club did. I am incompetent, but apparently don’t look like I am. “We want her for Pres!”

          They asked me to be the President of “Republican Women” club here and I am not even a Republican!

          So when I do show up, I try very hard to say nothing, though I do laugh heartily, all the time! 🙂

      • I’m with you, Cameo. These people sound vicious. It’s hard to believe the person who called him an asshole one minute was smiling and offering a warm and peaceful hand-shake the next minute.

        It would be different if they were upset about him spending too much on the flowers and they preferred being conservative with keeping the fake ones, but to say he’s an asshole is pretty extreme.

  9. “Why don’t they pull their feet in?”

    I think they do–their version of pulling their feet in is expressing their disapproval. YMMV.

  10. Back in college, I was part of a large Christian group. This guy came to preach one night and boyyyyy, a lot of people in the audience did NOT like him. He stepped on toes left and right and took a hard line with us. “If you can’t give your life to Christ, after ALL HE DID FOR YOU….I have no sympathy for you.”
    Yeahhhh, people were pissed, but I drank it up! LOL
    Keith Green was a Christian music artist who walked a hard line and expected other Christians to do the same. No compromise. No taking the easy road in following Him. he had Saturn conjunct Sun in Libra, as well as Pluto square Mercury (cutting words!). Jupiter in Gemini–preaching his truth. (His was on my DSC, which may explain why I found his outspokenness so refreshing.

  11. One of my officemates has the same kind of affect on most people. I haven’t looked at his astrological chart but he’s a 270 pound Libra around 60. He has such ingrained frictional communication habits there must be some dynamic between his Mars, Mercury, and Saturn where this is reflected. He speaks to people in a gruff and condescending tone of voice, and constantly acts out to get attention in a disruptive way, while also projecting an air of authority although he’s not an expert in our department. He’s a Mormon bishop and holds black belt in karate. One of the most annoying things he does is open the office door and yell out something rhetorical to everyone such as, “Than goodness it’s Friday!” and then slam the door shut. He comes across as being rude fairly often because he’ll speak in a passive aggressive way in group settings and sometimes uses a group setting as an opportunity to say something insulting that I can only guess he believes is righteous. (?) For example one morning in our group meeting our manager asked him about an issue and along with his response he added, “I COULD apologize. But I won’t.” These kinds of statements consistently result in everyone looking at one another as if to say, “What does THAT mean??” Then we dismiss it from our thoughts and move on.

      • He succeeds in contributing an obnoxious element to the group communication, however a few of us constantly ask ourselves and one another, “What is going on with THAT??” Some of the behavior and statements really drive us nuts and contradict the values he represents, but we deal with him by being polite and it’s not that we couldn’t address it but that it seems so subconscious it would become far too entangling psychologically and inappropriate for the environment to communicate with him on that level, and he’s worked there for 35 years and is set in his ways, so we just come back around to, “It is what it is.”

  12. I think it’s possible that he’s pissing people off because he’s RAISING THE BAR. Any time someone comes along, challanges the status quo, and shows those around them a higher standard, it can be upsetting. People can get lazy, complacent and set in their ways–and do not like someone who comes along and exposes this to them!
    It’s nothing he’s doing wrong–it’s just that people don’t like having the curtains thrown open and their dust bunnies brought to light.

    • Yes, they may feel loyalty to the priest who left. I am sure this is the case for some people.

      I remember having to follow a really popular guy on a route at Frito Lay. People loved the guy, so of course they HATED me…at first anyway.

      Let’s just say his name was “Tom Franklin.” He was called by both his names, by the way, as some people are.

      So I got so tired of walking in and hearing,. ‘Where is Tom Franklin, we want, Tom Franklin,” I started to claim that I was, “Tom Franklin.”

      Seriously,

      I’d walk into an account and say, “Hi, I’m Tom Franklin.”
      “No you’re not.”
      “Yes, I am….”

      And then I would explain how I knew everyone loved, Tom Franklin, and I was going to try my best to be as good as he was…”

      This worked for most. 🙂

  13. One thing I am yet to find out, is what happens next. The phone call lady, I still like. If I ever like a person, I tend to continue to like them, into eternity, even if they come to not like me. I don’t think she will come to not like me, because we don’t have a lot of interaction. But if we did and if she kept going on about this, I think I would eventually say something that would piss her off.

    So that is speculation. But the other gal, I know a lot better and we do converse. We LOVES talking about this kind of thing, but I fear our conversations will degrade into, “Well I like him.” / “Well I don’t!” So he’d be polarizing, but not for anything he did. He’s done gone on with his day, right?

    But this seems to be another feature of this type of personality. If you don’t adopt their opinion, they eventually turn on you as well.

    So I wonder if a friendship could end, all because a Spanish priest brought flowers into a church without following some bizarre protocol, which no one advised him of. And if I can’t see how heinous he is doing this…then obviously I am also of low quality.

    Hmm. I wonder if at the root of this, is intolerance. But I don’t know. Because the hallmark here is that 98% can be ignored so that the 2% can become a deal-breaker.

    I wonder if people like this know any math. Seriously. Get up a tree, because someone farted. You’ve got to admit it’s weird.

    • “But this seems to be another feature of this type of personality. If you don’t adopt their opinion, they eventually turn on you as well.”
      Yes.

      haha that hand sanitizer LOL….

  14. This is interesting Elsa. I’m trying to relate it to a situation in my own world – I can’t immediately think of anyone like this. I’ve noticed how fervently people just resent change and anyone who brings it, particularly if the proposed change threatens something dear to them – which of course a style of worship & way of running the church would be. I work with a bunch of people who seem to think they’re paid to complain all day long; that this behaviour is actually relevent and interesting to others. Trying to teach anyone anything new or critique anything sets of a storm of resentment, complaint, bitching, more resentment, tedious anecdotes about everything they’ve found difficult in the last 20 years, related or not, how unfair life is, how hard it is, etc etc. I’m really bored with this behaviour and how easily people take offence.
    I love it too that you laugh and show you’re an ally. Do you think this man would be found less annoying if he wasn’t making these changes to people’s beloved institution? I mean do you think the personality friction is bound up with his role and drive to change things? When people stick their heads above the parapet in some way; when they’re leaders, some seem to take that as some kind of personal affront. Subtle power wrangles.

    • “When people stick their heads above the parapet in some way; when they’re leaders, some seem to take that as some kind of personal affront. Subtle power wrangles…”

      This is what it seems to me. In most cases I know of…which are quite a few cases!

      This has been coming to my attention again and again, which is odd, since I don’t know anyone as a friend who even goes to the church. The friend I have that I mentioned talking to above, goes to a different church. She left mine, because she did not like the old priest.

      Ha ha ha

      Some thing they give a lot of money or something so they should be able to have a say in things, but that’s just not how it works. It’s not even close to how it works.

      You are giving money, not buying clout, right?

      • My experience in the new milennium is that money doesn’t get a person ‘say’. They don’t have to say, they get what they want and how they want it. Plain and simple. That might be crackin apart now too, but it’s still pretty much the way I see it workin yet.

  15. The woman thought that the fact the priest did not call her, meant that he did not care about her. She specifically told me that.

    I think it’s more likely, he didn’t know she existed. He sure as hell knows her now!

    But I wonder if she will allow him to make it up to her. I hope so! This woman is fantastic, but the way she was yelling, she may as well have been telling him to shove something up his ass.

    See why I like her?

    I thought you would. 🙂

  16. Hahaha, I’ve got mercury square mars, I’ve learnt over the years to be less uh enthusiastic with people in conversation unless I know them well, when I was younger I’d go off in to into deep conversations (Merc in Scorpio, I really had to work on small talk and still find it boring as hell) and people would sort of back up and react, usually badly. It used to upset me(Moon conjunct merc/mars midpoint) but I’ve calmed my conversation down a bit and realize some people are never going to get me.

  17. Maybe the people sense this priest really IS a fake, or they believe he is because they have become embittered by past disappointments. I hope it comes to light if he’s for real.

    • No, that’s not their complaint.

      They think he is too strict and such. He wants them to visit outside the church (in the gathering space) rather than in the middle of mass, during the Lamb of God.

      I laugh just writing that. But yes, this is what he wants. He wants people to stop chatting about their plans for the Bronco’s Game during mass, because it is distracting!

      So then I hear they don’t feel comfortable to talk in the parking lot…

      WHAT?

      Where does this come from?

      But that is what happens with this man. He requests that the Eucharistic Ministers (who should be setting an example) not offer the sign of peace on their way up to the alter, during the Lamb of God. He wants them to not chat up there…and this gets blown into “you can’t talk in the parking lot”.

      Sorry. To me, that’s insane.

      And this poor priest. He got us gold chalices. He’s really made mass very special..but this did not stop the cantor from chugging a bottle of water on altar during mass. Just MINDLESS, see? The guy looked like he was at a Grateful Dead concert! I’m serious!

      Thankfully, he didn’t see that. I think he’d have had a vein pop, yanno?

      Also funny to me, by the way.

      He’s just a stranger in this land. He’s actually Catholic, lol. Maybe that’s the problem. ::laughs::

  18. I guess I really don’t understand this with a priest. While I don’t think people should “blindly” follow any man… Disrespect to a priest is unfathomable to me, but then I have saturn conjunct ASC and Jupiter in cap.

    • The thing is, he is not doing anything wrong. He has stopped them from singing the Gloria they made up, and we now sing the Gloria the same way as every other Catholic in the world.

      Some people are relieved, I’m sure. They’re just not the ones bitching.

      And he is very fiery too. And he does talk too long, so I am not saying he’s perfect. But he is perfectly Catholic, that’s for sure. And I would take his passion over many other things I can think of, any day.

      Someone asked me why I thought the Archdiocese would send someone so different to a parish. It was hard for me not to laugh. He was sent to clean the place up, obviously!

      Anyway, I feel sorry for him. I read his last writing at the church he left to come to ours and he did not want to come. He’s quite frank. He said he ASKED not to come, but was being sent.

      So I just think life is hard for the man, but he’s not bringing it upon himself.

      Just that right there, might have done him in. He said his true feelings!!

      I think a person who is honest…well I love that. I want a priest, not a politician!

      So here is the other painful thing.

      I was told his old parish was glad he was gone. They talk in the parking lot now, lol.

      But really, I think it’s just a chorus of malcontents. “Rabble” as my husband would say. He is a total man of God. It’s obvious. His ideas are good, his judgement is good and it’s fair. He is also extremely warm (outside of mass), and he’s funny.

      On top of that, he’s a work-a-holic. He has added 5 new masses, daily adoration @ 7 am, ahead of mass @ 8 am. Daily confession time available (instead of 2X a week).

      He is doing more masses at nursing homes. He has established 24 hour adoration, one night a week (instead of closing at 10 pm) and just on and on and on.

      You see what I mean. ALL of this is for the community. I mean, come on!

  19. it all sounds like the perfect outcast/scapegoat…something I know very well from experience, used to relate it to chiron-sun + other barriers, somehow I seem to draw any repressed feeling from people.male friends who could never shout at their wives, feeling provoked by me and yelling out of control(and no apologies afterwhile).maybe the community is acting out some dark side of the priest(whom I like from your description, btw!).
    what I find scariest? echoes of records(papers,books) of the time italians emigrated, collected in a very interesting book(“l’orda”, by G.A. Stella e G,Rizzo,should anyone want to know).especially trial records, where decisive evidence to sentence someone to jail was based on racial prejudices we’d never imagine today.just a renewed form of witch hunt.
    I’m italian but the same could be told for any minority group entering a larger one and introducing something unknown…triggering any sort of fear.
    i definitively stand for the stubborn priest, as long as he can bear emotional price of it all!

  20. Very interesting.
    It seems to me the man is playing a pretty important part or role in the development of this church, setting boundaries that are actually serving everyone, and investing in what’s worthwhile; showing something new to the community that is opposing him (wow, tough job). I’m also pretty sure he’s got some Venus-Saturn action in his chart: bringing real flowers into the church. That’s also like bringing more life into the church.

  21. My favorite celebrity is someone that a lot of people loathe. I can’t say I’ve dealt with this IRL,with them, sadly and obviously. And I cannot say that the person hasn’t done some dumb shit in the past–though they have reformed. But I frequently just want to say, “they’re not THAT BAD!” Really, they’re not. And of course people think I’m horrible for liking them, which is why I’m not mentioning who they are even though they have come up on the forums before. In my opinion, the person has been a doofus on occasion, but their intentions are good and I haven’t heard a whole lot of “so-and-so was a jerk to me” stuff–it’s just that they see or hear them and people start growling. I think it’s sad.

  22. Sounds like he has narcissistic personality disorder. You’re firing his bullets Elsa. The point to him IS to cause pain and upset. They are very charming by nature and they CAN’T do empathy. He wants the attention it’s called narcissistic feed and you are part of the supply. Hope this helps you can look up other symptoms and effects. X

  23. Wow. That is crazy. My ears are pricked because we have a parallel situation going down at my company.
    A man that I’ve liked and backed for years was just appointed Head of Everything. Which is a testament in and of itself because as he’s climbed the jagged face of the corporate mountain through various departments and divisions there’s really not one group of stakeholders that he hasn’t managed to piss off and alienate. And I think it really does boil down to that “OMG–he did C, A, B instead of A,B,C” issue plus the fact that is lost on most of them that this man could ultimately give a fat rat’s ass who you are and how *you* have decided things are done. He wants excellence and integrity and to make the company a butt load of money and customer loyalty while we’re at it. So if you aren’t walking the talk you are either an impediment or an idiot…or both.
    I frankly adore him. He is scary as hell and funny as shit and we clicked way back when as two misfits on a mission. But whoo-boy I was a stranger in a strange land when I opened my mouth during a team meeting where everyone–everyone was vilifying the fuck out of the guy.
    I am going to just keep on trusting and liking the hell out of Big Dog. And tempering the vitriol and knee jerk spite where I can I guess. And giving him the benefit of my best efforts and counsel when called on to do so. Not that he needs me to have his back–but he does anyway–I just can’t help it. He makes me laugh. He makes me think and he makes me try my hardest.

  24. People have a problem with people that has power..”light” power.
    People are shitscared of the light. So how can that be..-)

  25. Have witnessed something like this before, and I think people with big mouth and opinion about what other people should do should be given a chance to take the role of that person for a while and see how they can do better.
    People want power but no responsibility. So they try to bend those who are in authority to fulfill their will. They like to act like puppet masters, and get furious when a person is not into their game. When someone has free will and tries to make changes.

  26. Brilliant, brilliant post, Elsa. You are astoundingly good at describing and diagnosing this sort of syndrome. I have little to add except that this sounds to me like “negative bonding”. I’ve noticed that groups of people will always try and find something that will bring them together, and if it’s not “for” someone or something, it will be “against” someone or something. There’s a pay-off in both cases. Unfortunately, if the motivation is “negative”, when the group gets its way, they’ll all fall apart and start fighting amongst each other, unless they can find another person or thing to be against. Nothing ever comes of this sort of bonding. It’s a substitute for the real deal.

    • “I have little to add except that this sounds to me like “negative bonding”.
      (snip)
      “Nothing ever comes of this sort of bonding. It’s a substitute for the real deal.”

      Thanks for articulating this. This would be my guess as well, but I really don’t know.

  27. All, what you wrote, hints on his Venus (sociality). And this is a topic of 12th house (priest) and symbolic exalt Venus in it.

    • He’s not lying. He says he is adding masses for X reason. He is adding confession times for X reason. He is buying gold chalices for X reason. He is replacing plastic flowers with fresh for X reason…etc.

      All of his reasons are utterly sensible.

      I mean you add a mass to people can go to it. Etc.

  28. When you wrote this post, you wrote about his clumsiness in sociality, I understood so. And now you’re writing about utterly sensible. Each person has own reality (Neptune) and see world, people. And this reality can be so true for this person. But other people have their reality, so they have and own view about other persons. If most of them don’t like one person, can be 3 ways: 1. He has so clear reality and so kind, that social patterns are under danger and sociality don’t want to part with them. In this way, he is prophet. But!!! If his view is clear, without lie not even for others, but for himself, people don’t hate his traits, because they feel truth in that. And some of people will go with him, if he is real prophet. And real prophet doesn’t fight with social patterns. He calmly lives and says his world to people without worry. Because if he worries about “injustice” (Jupiter) or his offense (Venus), he hasn’t clear of social patterns reality. 2. He thinks, that he helps to others, but he lies for himself. He has truth in his words, but lie too. So, some people see kindness in him, that he really want to help, but others see lie in him, that he lies first of all for himself, and avoid him or another. 3. Mixed variant with more proportions of…
    I don’t write, what the best way for you in behavior with him, because you can to write, that you don’t need to be psychoanalyzed.)
    P.S.: I don’t want to seem more smart then someone else and sorry if I seemed. I have to work with my traits, horoscope and Jupiter.

    • For the record, I have virtually no contact with him. I go to mass, maybe 7 times a month, but we have 4 priests and others who visit, so I may see him 1-2 times a month. I do like his homilies, and that’s about it.

      Outside of that, I visit the hospital. This requires no interaction with a priest, but he wants to expand this ministry (visiting more nursing homes, etc.) so this is what the meeting was about.

      He is not going to be in charge of us. The Vietnamese priest is the one taking over. He worked in a hospital for 3 years, so he’s very experienced in this area. The Spanish priest attended this meeting to support it, as did a deacon who is going to be more involved with nursing homes and housebound.

      I hear about him, because my one friend is quite powerful in the city. I’ve written about her in my newsletter (“first lady of my city”). She’s Catholic, highly involved, and her family has a lot of $ power and power in general.

      As I said, she likes to talk about this (so do I – mars Mercury in 9th, so does my son, Mercury conjunct Jupiter), so we do. She knows a lot of people from many parishes….has been around here a long time so that’s where most the info comes from.

      Then I sit in front of the rude guy at mass, randomly.

      And the other complaints from the yelling lady – well she does the hospital schedule. She changed it (accidentally) and a problem resulted. I like her, but we also have no contact. We did at this time, because of this schedule thing. No big deal. The schedule and the meeting coincided.

      I also see the faces in mass of course…but maybe this will clear things up a bit.

      I feel as if the hate for this priest is being shown to me. I mean, how many people have been to mass and heard the priest denigrated in between the Amens and the “Lord have mercy’s?”

      And that’s why I wrote this. It’s what I do. I write about what I see in life, nothing more and nothing less.

      • Oh!
        The meeting is a good example.
        Because he attended…he’s a control freak, who has to oversee the other priest.
        But had he not attended, it would have been, a claim that the least he could have done is attend.

        I’m telling you, he can’t win…with a certain segment of people, anyway.

        Everything he does is analyzed and spun in a negative way, based on no evidence of any kind!

        • Maybe, you like him, because he is strange and a little (or more) sincere? He has ideas and this is respect for him.))) We like extraordinary. But it should be “earthing”.)

          • I like him for the same reason I like everyone else I like. He’s funny, and charismatic as I mentioned in the original post.
            It’s just this (RARE) case, other people don’t agree.

            That’s my whole point. It’s very unusual for me to like someone that other people find unlikable.

            I can’t even say it’s ever happened before.

  29. Its very interesting. I’ve noticed social patterns in me today and how hard really be over them. And how this is good and charming. Ohhhh!

  30. After a beautiful late afternoon with my husband’s family who I have spent the last 21 years with I had the chance to hear them speak about me frankly. They tore me down every way they could. 1st my happy giving loving attitude-I’m weird, my marriage(what a fake no couple is that happy),how the person I just gave a laptop to- visciously said I make faces whenever I get near her- had gotten the whole family talking about me while in in the bathroom. I ran out the house. Couldn’t believe I was going to buy a large compound house for all these people to enjoy. My heart was crushed. My husband called it envy. Socially I’m not great. I don’t like to fight. Nor confrontation. I try to keep conversation polite & not deep at all. But I’ve always been there for them emotionally & financially when asked. I’ve given & given,I’ve never asked them for anything . I realized that these people don’t deserve me. I’m worth more than what they give me. I’m the one they loathe. I’m not condescending,no arrogant. I’m quiet in a room full of noise & arrogance surrounds me. Those people who tear down the priest they have something to learn from him. They just won’t accept his way. Jupiter’s arrogance is in their way. Change is good.
    I told my husband I need a new family. It’s been over 20 years & this is a hostile environment for me. I need to MoveOn. I don’t know if he will come with me that’s his decision but I’m not staying anymore. Peace & love.

  31. Elsa, sometimes people who grew up outside any community, as I believe you’ve said you did, have a much better insight into community dynamics than those who never had to think twice about their background, neighbourhood, or local town. Your post was amazing. I can’t thank you enough for your cleverness, and deep, deep kindness.

    • Thanks. It’s very hard to catch up, but there are advantages. Mainly, I chose this so I have no ambivalence about it. It is not easy to become Catholic. It took me close to four years! Annulments and such.

      So I think a lot of Catholics are pissed and have good reasons – sex scandals and such. But I also think there are many who still love the church and want to see her recover.

      This is definitely the thrust of the priests at my parish at this time. They are candid to say the Catholic church has blown it for 2 generations and they better step it up.

      It occurred to me today, we got a new Archbishop about a year ago. He’s got something to do with this as well.

      Matter of fact, the gal yelling was yelling about the Archdiocese…she has followed the instructions from them, but the leadership there has changed and what’s happening is it’s trickling down.

      What they’re doing is working. For the first time in 25 years, the seminaries are filled to capacity here. They know to screen people, as far as pedophiles who might infiltrate, etc.

      They really have their work cut out for them and from my vantage point they are taking this very seriously…inspiring others to do the same.

  32. I have this kind of experience- my good intentions are taken as ‘being ambitious’ and when i keep quiet- i am ‘being mean’ and when i make a joke- many think i am belittling .. imagine that

    i credit it my Pluto in 1st house conjunct ASC – and my sun precise oppose saturn .. no one seems to get me.. the ONLY people who actually sympathize with me are Pisces and I find them bland. 🙁

  33. Elsa, I think you understand and belong in this community because you chose it. You You weren’t born into it. You didn’t drift into it. You made a conscious decision. I imagine other people in your congregation are there because that’s how they were brought up, that’s what you do. So they never think about what they’re doing. The Priest to them is like an uncle they don’t get along with. This way of being has its good points and its bad points: it’s a ready-made community for those raised in it, which is very comfortable. On the other hand they can take it for granted. You don’t do that. You are the salt of the earth.

    • Thank you.
      Because here is another thing that I realized.
      The Spanish priest gave us (outbound Eucharistic Ministers) to the other priest to run. He only sat in on the meeting.
      So in reality, it was the Vietnamese priest who did not call the woman (and probably didn’t know the situation, or know that it would have been a good idea to do so), But see who gets the blame and the venom?

      Further, if he had told the Vietnamese priest how to run the ministry…he’s a control freak. That he did not do this is also a failure.
      On the upside, the other priests seem to like him just fine.

      Say what you will, it’s a much nicer place to work these days and it’s certainly better for me.

      Here is one of the stated goals (of all the clergy in the parish) – they want to “make a difference in the liturgical experience of the weekend parishioner”.

      They’ve been enormously successful in this regard. Do you know he changed the wine? It used to be Gallo (they showed up during RCIA).

      He said, ‘The flowers have to be real, the wine has to taste like wine…”

      Hearing this, my impression was that he knew what he was doing, so all we had to do was get out of his way.

      You can tell when someone is competent or being guided…it’s obvious. They have instructions from somewhere and they’ve got to follow them.

      This is a situation like that.

      • Ah yes very cool n then the dark side starts spitfiring thru peoples cracks n come out at that to try and destroy it. At least that’s how it looks to me psychically. Have mercury along with Venus in Aries in 6th myself btw

  34. Me mars and mercury are in squincunxing signs so I don’t really get it. And I’ve been in the scapegoat chair more times than I’d like to admit. My new tack is to stay out of ‘showdowns’ and also out of the fallout from the showdowns between others. I tried. I’m tired of trying. Darn hooligans.

  35. Ultimately, unless he was insulting in some way…who cares? People and their ideas about how things “should be” are impermanent and change with the seasons. Everything is subjective and viewed through the eye of the beholder. Each of us is on the path we need most. Fuq em if they don’t like it. The fact that some have the backbone to support this guy means it’s the group that needs to change….otherwise he’d be out on his ass with nobody (fated exile).

  36. This situation continues…it’s like a freight train.
    The other day I was sitting in line for confession…the gal next to me starts bad mouthing the priest! We were waiting on a different priest, who she was raving about.

    Now the priest she was raving about IS excellent. But I also think he benefits from the other priest carrying the shadow.

    A person who wants to tear down one person, will raise another to make themselves not seem hateful or judgmental or whatever. I’ve seen it a million times.

    I told this gal that I liked the priest and she was shocked. It was like she’d not heard anyone say this before.

    What killed me is this priest expanded services, tremendously. And she takes advantage of them! He has “Holy Hour” every weekday morning now – every time I go, there she is. Plus we can go confession any day we want (it used to be twice a week). “Don’t you like the new Holy Hour?” I asked. “We’re sitting here right now, able to go to confession because of him.”

    It just doesn’t seem to compute for some reason.

    So now, some staff are retiring or moving to a new parish. Even if this is not tied to the priest, people will say it is.

  37. This was so funny to read, three years later. What a trip.

    And little did I know the “over-sensitive” thing would spread through our culture like cancer.

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