Free Will vs Nature – Habits You Just Can’t Break

angieI woke up pondering my own patterns in relating to people. I was going to write about this, knowing I’d written about it before.  There is a pattern, right there.  Periodically, I think about this stuff!

I decided to search my old posts. I found this post from 2009. I’d searched for this key person in my life since the internet existed. This is a gal I knew as a teenager. After ten years, I finally found her. Or rather, I learned that she’d been killed in her 20’s. I felt pain. But I was also thrilled, because I was able to connect with some of her family, who were initially thrilled to connect with me.

I was very close to this girl. I have a gift of being able to recall and transcribe the exact dialogue from conversations that took place, decades ago.  When I do this, the personalities fly off the page. If you’ve read my book, you know what I mean. So I had pictures and information and a perspective and stories about this girl, that I could offer her family. The interaction started out, brilliantly.  But it did not take long for me to cross a line I couldn’t see.

Now here’s the old post…

I was talking was talking with a client about people and their natures. She’s read here for years and has witnessed what she called my “drama”, many times.

tubingI explained, no matter what my intentions, it’s only a matter of time before something comes out of my mouth. Something rude, something jarring, something cutting, something shocking, something off color, something outrageous or whatever. Invariably my intensity reveals itself in the same way a curl falls down on someone’s forehead, if their hair was made to fall hat way. I wish more people understood this.

The main reason that people can’t figure other people out is that they’re continually waiting for them to do what they themselves would do in a certain circumstance. They don’t realize the other person would never, in a million years do what they would do, think what they think or anything of that nature.

Witnessing this, they try train them the person to act to form.
Or they judge them for being out of form or whatever else they do.
Anything but accept the person’s hair is curly and try to expand themselves enough so they might appreciate it.

In whatever case, I’m frustrated with myself. I’m dazed and confused over finding out that my friend died. I regret offending her family, which I assume is what happened. I had tremendous feeling for them. I say that in the past tense because I have just had to let this go.

I think a lot of people think that I (or others) have choices about the things we do and while there is free will, I cannot “free will” my size 9 foot into being a size 7 1/2. Having Libra I would very much like to please people but it’s not that easy to do.

Do you realize her family might have found my blog, found out I was an astrologer and this is what caused the rejection? What am I supposed to do about that? I was born to be an astrologer. I was born with my mouth as well, and the intensity.

That said, I am staying in the woods now, at least near term. The social rules force this. It’s just not a good time to have a wild (9th house), coarse and untamed (Mars) mind (Mercury).

I was in a meeting yesterday and didn’t say a thing. How unlike me.

Do you have a personality trait you know is hard-wired?

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Free Will vs Nature – Habits You Just Can’t Break — 19 Comments

  1. I don’t know really. You might find this hard to believe but I used to be a complete motor-mouth, plenty to say on everything and unafraid to say any of it. Because of a number of incidents and circumstances I went into the woods and am still there, venturing out every now and then. I was pretty shocked when I listened to the recording of my consultation with you; until I talked you would have thought there was no-one there – weird.

    I think one of the issues raised here is of feedback – how often do people come back and tell you in a reasoned, interested way what they think of what you said or how you say it? There is so little real engagement of that sort between people anymore.

    I remember talking to friends of my father about all sorts of things and they would always be interested to know what I thought, why I thought that way and what it all meant. The great question was always ‘What do you young people think about so and so?’ And never any judgement about your thoughts. Just real interest to find out where the world was going. I mean where can you have this kind of real dialogue any more? Dialogue where you are given the space to be yourself because it is understood that each life is individual and each individuals perception makes the whole so much more interesting.

    People now seem to be so polarised by majority and only interested in associating with those who think the way they do. I find it depressing and frightening, the zombification of people’s minds.

    Maybe that’s what hardwired in me – freedom of thought and expression, without fear of reprisal or judgement.

    Love these posts, plenty to think about.

  2. Thank you, opal. 🙂

    I actually get quite a bit of feedback as far as blogging goes as compared to others. I know what you mean though. Saturn in Libra might thwart debate?

    I know the last time Saturn was in Libra, I also went into the woods. I had a broken heart, my life was… difficult, nobody understood anything I was saying so I stopped talking and started skating of all things. It was about a 6 month withdrawal and then..

    And then a million other things, all unbelievable happened. ::sighs::

  3. opal that is something I really love, and it puts me so somehow excited and at ease when I find it, someone who asks you an open question and then waits for you to say what you think without giving any indication of what they want you to think. My father was like this, and I have no one else in my life these past 8 years who can do this. I miss it (and him) trememdously. I mean you really have to think for yourself in that case and stand up for your opinions, or at least clearly and cleanly verbalize them.

  4. I love the way you put the thought that (as Elsa put it) having curly hair is the sort of thing someone who is really paying attention, will include in the whole picture when being with a curly-headed one. Mostly, I enjoyed hearing the thing I most like about being with people who are really “engaged” … I agree the quality is lean in current society and may be the quality we will benefit from in the now and into the future. Like Opal, I grew up with two elders, an aunty and a mom who were models of listening with the whole self. I have never forgotten that.

    In the rush to be heard, I have been in the misunderstood or “I wish she’d just …” position. With time, I have found where I have wasted airspace waiting for someone to be the illusion or the project I had. Today, I see how valuable it is to be a friend (who I’d enjoy being with since I spend a lot of time alone) and then given opportunity, that ability to engage (which is a characteristic hard-wired in me) will be less ready to simply rush to be heard or ready to be the Neptunian victim.

  5. Opal–going off what you said, people in love with their own opinions suppress open dialogue. Like an exclusive narcissism. It’s possible to stress individual value so much, people focus on it to the exclusion of others. Perhaps individuality is best balanced with a sense of community, one that many can share in.

    Here’s hoping for more Jupiter-inspired generosity for others. And more Saturn-inspired respect for other, as well.

  6. Yesterday one of my closest pals and I were talking about how my ex thought I was the ultimate people pleaser.

    She said “you are like, the ultimate NON-people pleaser.” And if you meet me I don’t appear that way–Jupiter Rising has me looking like I’d be good to anyone. Well, fact is I will, but I won’t please you just because you need/hope/want me to.

    I have surprised people by amputating them, and I’ve surprised people by caring when they thought I wouldn’t…and suprised them by not caring when they thought I should. I am hard-wired by not being what I’m supposed to be (Uranus conj. MC opposed Sun) and it’s taken me a long time to accept this and not feel a failure for it.

    I’m hard-wired to nuke any relationship that is abusive or dysfunctional past the point of fixing. My barrier is different than other people, in fact I think we all having a different and sometimes shifting barrier and I like remembering this when other people confound me.

    I don’t get them, but I don’t feel compelled to, either. I like a mystery. I don’t know if this serves me or not, but my friendships are very good, and I mean they are fantastic and so my guess is: yes, it serves me.

  7. ‘models of listening with the whole self.’

    That’s beautiful. And it’s that that allows freedom of expression, isn’t it? Our parents generation lived in times where there was more space and time for others and that kind of consideration was the norm.

    Perhaps with Saturn in Libra we can move more into the reality of manners, rather than the pretty act of it. Consideration and allowance for anothers life and ultimately one’s own.

    There is so much of value to these Saturnian ways. I can see why it is exalted in Libra.

  8. “There is so little real engagement of that sort between people anymore”

    I’m not at all trying to discount your experience opal, but this comment highlighted me to the fact that I DO have this sort of engagement. And I am extremely grateful.

    I also think Saturn in Libra will highlight to people that everyone who is human has the capacity for this kind of engagement at their grasp. Don’t know how, seeing I’m just me and no one else–but the engagement is like a physics thing–they potential is there, whether it’s used or not. It’s the very essence of human transformation from generation to generation. Although with Pluto in Capricorn, anything can happen/death of this idea or what have you

    (sorry i have lots to say about this)

  9. Scorp in a Suit – I agree. What I try to live by is the Brahmin notion that true community can only occur when it consists of individuals each fulfilling their potential. Then community becomes a living organism, capable of tremendous vision and growth.

  10. haha. um, yes. impulsivity.. although much of that impulsivity is tempered by my ascendant sign ( Thank God. ) … but i generally tend to have good intentions in mind, usually. im also quite optimistic, i think ( sun opp jupiter, jupiter trine ascendant )
    Some traits are liked and some despised by others. I’m sure everyone has this…
    however I have to say Elsa, you being unafraid to tell it like it is, is one of my favorite things about you. So while saturn in libra might make us all a little bit more aware “manners-wise” I hope that you treasure that part of yourself because it truly is a gift. A gift to be wholly, unapologetically & unabashedly, yourself.

  11. Oh, spam filter how i loathe you. lol. But i was going to add to my post… if it weren’t for my optimism I don’t know if i’d have been able to make it through some of the stuff i’ve been through. So that’s definetely a plus for me.

  12. Thanks, jo. I am going to continue to be myself, just not in public. It won’t stay this way but I bet it doesn’t change all that fast either…

  13. The first thing I thought of was my stubborness. It’s both innate and learned, I’m stubborn, stubborn, stubborn, stubborn. I will not move, I will not budge, I will not flinch just because it would please someone else. I’ll compromise as long as the other person is valued and being reasonable, but if there’s a demand involved, you will see one obstinate bitch. *looks at halo* It’s unappealing, sometimes, but true. Approach me with respect and a willingness to hammer out a solution and I’ll make a pact that’s workable if it kills me. Act like an asshole, however, and I’ll out-asshole you all over the place. 😉

  14. Thank you for this post, it was very timely for me since I’ve been giving myself grief about not being able to please certain people. Which I couldn’t do, short of changing all my beliefs about life and essentially agreeing with everything they say.

    Could be the natal Saturn in Libra. But yeah, I sympathize with your heading off to the woods. I’ve been lying low myself and it can be really, truly neccessary sometimes.

  15. Weird, beth. I was going to respond to you and wrote a lengthy comment which then disappeared. This has happened to me several times in the last week. I really am to keep my mouth shut.

  16. Yes, I think I do have. I can ask a special way, usually people doesn’t like that too much. I can ask questions that can make you feel really uncomfortable. And sometimes I want exactly to make the other feel awkward. ( 1st house pluto-uranus conj, trigon to mercury.) I am curious, and I want to know the roots of a thing. So it seems I am cruel. And I enjoy this in me…sorry.

  17. * Introversion.

    As a teenager and young adult I tried to ignore it.

    As I’ve gotten older I thrive when I self-care around my introversion and adapt my working patterns to honor it.

    * Being a feelings/emotions person (Sun in Pisces)

    I now honor my feelings (whilst trying to be practical as much as possible) and inform my life choices on them as much as I can or I can afford.

  18. ‘Witnessing this, they try train the the person to act to form.
    Or they judge them for being out of form or whatever else they do.’

    Elsa, those are wise words.

    I noticed I can befriend some people who do this yet there is always a limit to how far the friendship can go because I refuse to be trained (different than remaining open and receptive) or subtly being told I’m out of form.

    Generally I am on the lookout for when I’m doing this to people or might be at risk of doing it. It always feels very uncomfortable to be at the other end of such behaviour so I need to watch myself!

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