As reported on John and Susan Townley’s Astro*News:
The Telegraph of Calcutta, India reports: Birth-fixing to beat Mars – Astrologers, not doctors, determine time of delivery
“…Over the past two months, more and more would-be parents in the state have been opting for “birth by appointment” – that is, manipulating the time of delivery to suit astrological charts.”
Twenty years ago, my sister, who is also an astrologer was pregnant with her second child. She had a c-section with her first and knew her second baby who also be delivered by c-section which meant she could have some say in what her child’s chart would look like. And she didn’t necessarily have to clue her doctor in either. She debated.
It was a hard decision too. She had all kinds of angles on it. What’s the right thing to do? Do you leave it to some doctor to decide your kid’s life when they can’t even read a chart? Or do you step in and try to control the situation?
In the end, she decided to stay out of it. The doctor scheduled the C-section and she showed up… on time.
What would you have done in my sister’s situation? Elect the chart, or take your chances? And why…
I’d have requested to see the doctor’s chart, and compared it to mine and the projected birth chart of the kid. *smirk*
No, actually, wow. Horrible decision, wot? To meddle, or not to meddle…
I’m pretty sure I’d have left it to chance. With Jupiter in my 12th tightly conjunct my Sun & Asc, trining a 9th house Moon (in Pisces!), I am positively overflowing with blind faith and optimism, especially with the really big choices (perhaps stupidly so…). So, Fate (in the form of some doctor) would have made the ultimate call, I have little doubt.
Fortunately I had no such dilema. I had every reason to expect a natural delivery…and had one…er, seven weeks early, which was a little mind-blowing…but hey, my kid is such an Aries, I now laugh at the thought of her having been born a late Taurus as originally predicted and anticipated. 😛 (And no, there was no question of her due date being off or miscalculated, if anyone was wondering…)
I would take my chances. I’d want to have what child I was supposed to have in my life, good or bad.
We’ve found a lot of articles on this trend, particularly even farther East, in Korea, China, and Japan, even in the States. It’s a big responsibility to decide something so life affecting to your child, but if you don’t, you get scheduled for an early morning C-section which will generally yield a 12th house Sun. there’s a host of them coming into the world thanks to doctors’ convenience. It’s the easiest for the doctors, safest for the statistics of hospital survival, but the worst astrologically, at a basic level. Maybe a little tweaking, even if not too sophisticated, could avoid serious long term problems…
I wouldn’t choose. Choosing would indicate some degree of presumption on knowing how the person coming into being would deal with what is coming their way.
It seems to me like a fruitless application of this type of knowledge.
My sister-in-law has had two C-sections for medical reasons. In Connecticut the C-sections are usually scheduled for 10am (lazy-arsed doctors is my guess). When she was expecting the first child in 2002 she told me that the C-section was due to be February 20 @ 10am. I created a chart and wasn’t really thrilled with what I saw, but I didn’t say anything. She went into labor on February 13 and was delivered by C-section at 12:15 pm on February 13, 2002. While there are many challenges here I like this chart better, especially in comparison with the rest of the families charts – she, my niece, fits in better with us this way.
I think we’re born when we’re supposed to be born – early or late – and we really shouldn’t mess with the timing. To me it’s a little like the parents who want to choose the sex of their child. Take what you’re given and be grateful.
I was an early morning Cesarian and not a 12th house Sun (I have an 11th house Sun and it fits beautifully). Also, depending on the astrology you could say that a 12th house Sun is as much of a gift as an affliction, so it wouldn’t necessarily be something I’d be looking to avoid with my children.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently, as my husband and I are thinking of starting a family. And we’ve sort of decided to steer it a little – e.g. I would prefer a Scorpio/Sag over a Libra so we decided to try and conceive a baby in March rather than February.
Of course due dates are not accurate and I am fully prepared to accept whatever child comes into my life because I believe this will be the child I’ll need.
Similarly there are signs I’m hoping to avoid (eg. Pisces and Aries) not because I dislike the denizens of those signs so much as thinking that I would struggle with an Aries child more than I would with a Leo one. Which is not to say that I would struggle with a Leo less, so much as differently (but differently in a way that feels easier to me).
But I would still prefer to leave the birth of my child to chance, trusting in the Universe to deliver me the baby that I need in my life – mysterious reasons or no.
Elsa, This Mr. John that commented makes pretty strong statements about
which will generally yield a 12th house Sun. there’s a host of them coming into the world thanks to doctors’ convenience. It’s the easiest for the doctors, safest for the statistics of hospital survival, but the worst astrologically, at a basic level.
Without explaining why that would be so bad? Maybe I just need to speak up for the 12th house suns out there! Maybe there is an explanation?
If not 🙁
Long ago, I read somewhere that only “natural” births yield a “reliable” horoscope… implying that the horoscopes of those with C-sections would be “off”. (I think I read this in a book, I don’t have an URL handy or something.) I am not sure how valid this opinion would be.
I personally just look at people’s horoscopes without inquiring about the type of birth. 🙂 But it’s an interesting thought to consider. Because, as Elsa says, it implies that you can control your child’s personality to some extent. Is that really true? Or would you just be kidding yourself and cheating yourself out of knowing the “real” horoscope? I don’t really have an answer to this.
Yah, 12th house Sun, that’s me. And I was a completely natural birth.
Call me afflicted? Bah. I stick my tongue out at you!
As for “steering” towards signs, well…my little Aries has her Sun squared to mine. A Taurus (which she was orginally on target to be, albeit by chance) would have been nicely sextile and conjunct either my Sun/Moon midpoint or my N.Node. But y’know? Her overall chart is startling like mine, with predominately water and in degrees connecting fully with mine, and we do flow together nicely, yet are distinctly different people. It is our differences that allow us to be clearly separate, which is of course very important for both of our development.
I am definitely in the camp of, “let it be as it will.” 😀
A 12th house Sun has the general stock slamdown of giving a person a persecution complex.
I personally know 2 people who have 12th house suns and they are two of the most compassionate, thoughtful people I know. Smells like transcendance! Which, incidentally, this type of choice seems to be the anti-thesis of.
Taken my chances! What’s meant to be, will be.
I think “taking my chances” and choosing an hour would be the same, i’m sure God wouldn’t be surprised by whatever choice i could make anyway.
I just want to record my disagreement with John Townley (#3) re: 12th house Sun being per se undesirable.
Re: your question — elect the chart or take your chance?
In the end, I think the baby would still come when the baby was ~supposed~ to come, and anybody else involved would merely be fooling themselves, thinking they’d played God.
For example, you could book the C-section for whatever time, but ultimately, if the child was supposed to be born at a different time, the doctor will be delayed for some reason or another, etc. etc.
And if the child did end up being born ‘on cue’ (i.e. your chosen time slot), perhaps that would be because that’s when the child was ~supposed~ to be born anyway.
We have no way of knowing.
I’ve never thought about this before and don’t expect to ever be in the position to have to make such a decision, but if I did, I would definitely put greater importance in the choice of a safe hour in terms of ‘hospital survival’ and such considerations. The safe and healthy delivery of my child would be paramount, as well as my own welfare in this process.
The birth of Ved Vyaas, the great scholar and the author of Mahabharata is believed to have been the culmination of a union at a time when planetary positions were conductive to produce a philosopher. Each moment has got its own potency. The moment at which we elect to do an important act is not certainly an insignificant epoch.
If one is adept in astrology or has a keen desire to explore the mysteries of this science, then Ashtakvarga system should be applied for much finer results. Ashtakvarga is a branch of Vedic Jyotish which fell into disuse due to laborious and error prone calculations involved. But with the advent of computers, Ashtakvarga has become the subject of modern times. Our ancient sages never advocated for a “son” – but for a “virtuous son”. All their astrological wisdom has been applied so that an intelligent and dutiful son could be born to a couple.
More details about “Art of conceiving” can be found on following page:
http://howisyourdaytoday.com/Conceive.Htm
Shyam S. Kansal
I hope the India thing is just a rumor – astrology is fun alright, but the last thing that country needs is more superstition interspersed with and already questionable and patchy medical care
I thought the baby is supposed to choose what day- induced kids are always a bit screwed up. But I haven’t been in that situation yet, so I can’t say for sure. Probably leave it up to the gods.
I think everything happens for a reason
i would say avoid electing a chart… leave it int he hands of the universe…
but when i had my child i had a choice to give it a little nudge or to wait it out after the water had been broken for 24 hours… and it felt right (at that point) to give it a nudge… and the rest of it went pretty easy (and quick) as far as such things go.
he was born with a saturn moon conjunction in cancer…. i’m not sure he wanted to get out on his own 😛
I think most people prefer to “leave it to the universe” out of fear, because they do not want to carry the responsibility of making a choice, many of them are the same ones who proclaim that we must trust intuition. To be sure, anyone who decides to schedule the birth of their child will immediately be labeled arrogant, self-centered, and worse. Paradoxical.
Studying astrology should help us to anticipate certain things to ensure the best possible well-being, both our own and that of those we love. I would choose a programmed birth, thinking in progressions, directions and solar arc, in what literature teaches and that is in many ways proven, I would trust my intuition, what I have studied, observed and learned, and in any case I would take responsibility or joy in having done it.