My prodigal daughter came home last year. We talk, frequently. She’s planned a visit and now has an airline ticket in hand. We’re both excited.
People like to lie about me; I don’t know why. But some took advantage of the tragedy of our separation. I was accused of all sorts of heinous things, I never did. This still goes on.
I was thinking about my daughter’s visit. Some think it is risky. I don’t care what they think. Whatever happens to me; I can take it. This should be obvious to anyone who’s read here for long. What I could not take is knowing I’d harmed one of my children.
Whatever ever it is that you believe, I would not like to find myself standing before God, trying to explain how I harmed one of my children. That’s not going to happen. Words fail. I then thought of the astrology.
I have a well aspected moon (mother). It’s would be easy for anyone to see what kind of parent I’d be… what kind of parent I am. Abuse is far, far outside my realm.
This made me wonder what markers might indicate a person would harm a child.
I’m thinking that some of you out there know a lot about this. What have you seen?
I also wonder if there is someone out there who does have have a bad impulse… but they control it.
I was a child that was abused by her mother. I don’t know her birth time. But if I look up the ephemeris moon is in Virgo. Her Saturn is conjunct my Pluto, I do realize now she is mentally ill. Addicted to alcohol even before we were born. Her d.o.b is October 16th 1952. I cut off contact in 2001. While others judged me for it. It felt very liberating and it still feels that way. I missed a mother figure all my life. Things could also be the other way. My mom lied and cheated so that she was rid of me. ( she only wanted boys she said) and it worked. I got into foster care, but that was a huge blessing. People tend to believe my mom. While growing up I had to deal with her lying and people believed her. But I held my ground and kept my chin up. And now I could care less if people judge me or have an opinion about it. They didn’t walked one mile in my shoes is what i think! Elsa I am glad for you that your daughter comes to visit you! If I only had a mom like you.
Carmen – Congratulations for standing your ground and honoring your truth! It speaks volumes about your character.
Sorry didn’t saw this reply! Thank you !
my mother doesn’t have the same story as yours, but boy was she a jerk more than sometimes. My therapists wouldn’t even believe me when I told them the things she did to me. I guess they might have believed me deep down inside, but my mother was a prominent public figure in our old city and I guess people don’t like to think badly of someone who’s their age group.
That, and that human beings don’t always have a mind of their own. I was an easy target too, because I was mentally ill and had a mood disorder!
Aww Anonymous Hermit my heart goes out to you!
I recognized what you’ve said about the therapists don’t believing into what you’ve said as a child! My teacher knew, but her hands were tied in some way I don’t know. My mom wasnt a jerk she was utterly brutal. And even enjoyed the physical abuse. She grew up with loving parents. I stopped searching for the why in this story. I’ve had therapy for years to overcome my childhood. And I turned out good. I hope you are feeling better now. You are not your parent! That is my mantra and there’s a whole lot of truth in that.
@carmen i’m sorry to hear about what happened to you. It’s so surprising to read about your mother and her sister (your aunt who you mentioned is similar to your mother) grew up with loving parents, and still turned out so cruel and abusive. I don’t understand why they carry so much hate. 🙁
O my also didn’t see this reply.
It is saddening for sure, my cousins also cut off contact with their mother. And the same thing that always comes up is the cruelties we all went thru. I still get the shivers if I think back at that time. I have cracked my brain about it , what the reason could have been. My mom and her sister don’t get along either . That is suprising.
About the markers: Pluto in Leo maybe ? That could be a marker.
That’s too broad a group. Pluto was in Leo from 1939 to 1956. Everyone born in that time frame has Pluto in Leo.
Or sun square Uranus.
Yes In the chart of an abusing mother I’d expect to find harsh moon aspects. I’d also look at the 4th house placements just to get an idea, asking myself what kind of home could this person be expected to create for themselves? What is “home“ to them, and what kind of nurturing is most natural to them?
I don’t have to look further than the chart of my own mother to see if it works – her moon is squared her mars/Uranus conjunction, all in fixed signs. Saturn is smack on the IC too; and living with her was to live in fear, under absolute oppression. We never knew when the lid was going to blow. Or why.
She abused me and my siblings both with her hands and her words: I have never been bullied a day in my life except in my own house. We were all very unhappy children and even though there were 5 of us we all felt incredibly lonely. I do believe she raised us the only way she knew how, though – after all, that Saturn on the IC didn’t start with her. She has Pluto right on her Leo ascendant too; this is a woman who personifies the Phoenix. Blood and fire, slashing and screaming and just pure rage – that’s just who she is, where she came from.
One of my sisters has three kids and she fights the urge to be like our mother. She verbalizes it often, to me and others close to her, that she hates herself when she catches herself behaving or sounding like our mother. For her it’s been a very conscious progress, to un-learn everything that she was taught so that she wouldn’t create the same wounds in her own children. She has nothing on the IC (ruler is mercury in Scorpio) but she has moon square Pluto, and a close sun/saturn conjunction that squares her mars.. Still her 3 girls are giggly and kind, happy and expressive, smart and independent. They don’t fear her at all, she’s their idol and their her no1 fans. I’m very proud of her 🙂
And me? Ummm well I have Capricorn on the IC with Neptune and Uranus in there: saturn is in the 5th. Don’t worry, I won’t be having any kids ?
Ha, sounds like my mother. I speak of it now like it’s normal. But she liked to beat me while I was on the ground and bleeding. I was scared of her while young. She loved to throw me in the closet. While she was very sweet and kind to both of my brothers. To me she had two or more faces. Scary nevertheless. I used to be jealous of my brothers because she hugged them and gave them love. But now I am not anymore because my brother has to deal with her behavior and she’s very dependent of him. And if She doesn’t get her way she’s belittling to him. And makes him feel unworthy. And were both 40 now. Very sad in the end. I didn’t get kids nor did I want them. I thought some time I wanted to become a mother. But also very affraid that one day I would turn into her. So I am enjoying my life now.
I have cap as 4th house ruler and my moms chiron conjuncts my 4th house.
IF it’s harsh moon aspects, both of my parents were extremely abusive and both have their moon’s squaring Pluto.
Mom was physically and psychologically abusive (especially psychologically towards my sisters…she put them down regularly). But physically abusive to me more than her own boys: choke, punch, kick, throw shit, then steal and blame me just so she could have a reason to get angry and violent.
My father would literally punch, throw and beat me with 2X4’s, irons, cables, and branches.
I wasn’t aware that there could be chart markers. Interesting to know. I hope there is more evidence for this.
My mother has always been very cold to me. Her second husband was an alcoholic who was verbally abusive toward me growing up; she never said a word about it. She would never dream of helping me if I were in need but is quick to see herself as a victim if I call her on anything. I know this probably sounds insignificant to what others here have described, but I’ve always felt like I didn’t have a mother. She has Moon square Pluto.
You are preaching to the choir, Occhineri. I am right with you. However, I’ve been blessed to have two older women come into my life and they act as my “surrogate” mothers. I feel emotionally safe and loved.
That’s great! The one good thing I got out of my experience is how NOT to be as a mother myself, which has been really easy. My daughter and I are very close, so that’s really all that matters to me.
My husband had an emotionally abusive mother, a verbally abusive step-father, and a lazy biological father. There are more markers in his chart then I’d say hers. He has his moon square Pluto. It also widely squares his sun, Mercury, and Saturn.
But, he’s a wonderful father, and a kind and sensitive soul. When he’s depressed he can be critical to his children (he’s got Venus conjunct Mars in Virgo in the 10th), but he knows it and intentionally tries not to. Here’s the crazy thing, his brother, who is 3 years younger but has a birthday after him, has a Virgo moon opposite Jupiter, but no other aspects. He had a good relationship with their mother! My husband was the family scape goat. I saw it with my own eyes 17 years ago when we were 19 years old and I met his family. Everyone treated him like shit while his brother would lay low. His sun and Saturn are in the 12th (Saturn almost on the Ascendent) and his biological dad was absent and his step dad was an abusive Pisces.
The astrology for his mother, she had a Scorpio Moon conjunct my husband’s Saturn, Neptune in Scorpio conjunct my husband Sun, and North also in Scorpio about 10 degrees from the moon. Her Moon was opposite her Mars, and squared Venus, Mercury and Chiron in a t-square. Her husband fit (my husband’s step dad who was abusive) fit the idea of having Venus conjunct Mercury and Chiron square Moon and Mars.
In my husband and his mom’s composite chart, they had Moon conjunct a Pluto and Uranus. That couldn’t “feel” good.
I think people could have signs of being abusive in their own charts, but it depends on the other players and composite chart. Like I said, my husbands brother had a good relationship with their mom even though he say my husband be treated like shit.
Sorry about the many typos. I was trying to say my husband’s brother’s birthday is the day after his, only 3 years later.
Both my mother and father. Not as bad as they hit me,but psychological violence often leads to complex PTSD.
I don’t know what my father’s horoscope look, but I know my mother’s.
She has Capricorn on the 4th house. Her moon and Sun in Taurus is conjunct my Chiron, close to and on the fixed star Algol.
Her moon and sun is square Pluo too, and her Saturn is smack on my Sun,Venus and Jupiter in Scorpio, which is opposite my Chiron.
Grow up the harsh way, discipline, closed offness and stoicism. Non emotional outbursts. My, did I grow up to do the duty!
The Plutonic control freak was strong. Still is. That Pluto falls in my 7th, square my Scorpio planets.
Moreover, her Chiron is conjunct my Ascendant. I think her Mercury must do something as well, cause whatever she says, she has the ability to be detached emotionally and hurt me like the bloody hell. Merc in Gemini perhaps, totally detached. She is a Taurus in the very late degrees.
Her Chiron is in Aquarius, 5th house. It kinda says it all….
@carmen, I looked at your mother’s chart. She’s a Libra with her sun conjunct Saturn and Neptune. Odds are, her moon is also in Libra. This also does not spell abuse, however when I consider Venus, the ruler of all the Libra, the picture darkens.
You mother has Venus in detriment in Scorpio. The planet squares Pluto and Uranus, creating a t-square. She can definitely freeze a person out.
She also has Mars in Capricorn, squaring her moon in a late degree of Virgo, or in Libra as I mentioned. Anger.
I wonder if she was jealous of you.
Wow another moon-mars! Makes sense. Aggression is kind of part of the picture when nurturing: at best I imagine it’s like a mama bear kind of thing but maybe when the aspects are harsh one doesn’t know when the line has been crossed. “I’m only doing this because I love you”..
Also aggression and impatience with “childish” emotional expressions, like crying. Violent emotional outbursts! Carmen, does this ring true to you?
I get what you mean, but with my mom that wasn’t the case. She actually told me over and over again she only wanted Boys , and that I never should have been born and all that bla bla. She also physically abused my dad. My dad kept silent for years. Not wanting to leave me with her alone. And when the time was right for him he asked for a divorce. She didn’t see that coming but that enlarged her rage even more. She made his life hell, but he kept standing. We stayed with him and she put him into a large debt. Still he didn’t respond and paid everything off. He never wanted to be in a relationship again and he’s still single after 25 years. Sad tho but i understand him. I suspect she’s a scorpio rising. She caries a lot of hate with her. I have to say she has a sister who’s just like her. My aunt is a Taurus sun but don’t have her dob. Also the dependent state where she lives in the past 40 years. And a lot of hospital admittances while there was nothing wrong with her.
Yes she was when I was older. I always heard her say to my dad: your daughter this your daughter that. And she never let an opportunity get by to tell me how ugly I was or how dumb. It made me feel very small and insignificant. But my dad and aunts told me that it already started when i was born. My dad said she didn’t cuddle me or picked me up while I lay in my crib. But she did pick up my twin and cuddled him. So as a child I always thought she didn’t liked me in the first place. While she was very warm and kind to my female cousins. all of my female cousins loved her. So I never realized until later that she was jealous of me.
I also remember her rage towards me! The hate in her eyes when I was small. I tried and tried to come in her good graces. Something horrible happend while in foster care, and she sended me straight back to that dangerous foster family . No emotions no motherly feelings. So from that point on something broke and I had to let her go. She wasn’t abused in her childhood.
So to me and still is she’s a horrible person without a heart. I don’t have kids, but if I had them I would have protected them with my life.
My mom had her Moon and Mars in Capricorn conjunct and both opposed Pluto and squared Uranus. She could be meaner than hell, angry most of the time, and would argue over anything with anyone. I was scared to death of her as a child because she was so totally physically and verbally abusive. You never knew when she was going to fly off in a rage. She also had me totally gaslight as a child –definitely Narcissistic Personality disorder. And people outside our family thought she was so sweet and nice. We barely spoke the last ten years of her life.
Ugh I recognize that behavior! I hope you are doing fine now. (( hugs ))
Unfortunately our family on our mother’s side was blighted with cluster B personality disorders affecting about 1 in 3 children in at least the past 5 generations. Probably much longer than that. Some appear to have been born that way but others may have become ill through prolonged abuse at the hands of those who inherited the problem. In the latest generations, that 1 in 3 rate is nudging nearer to 2 in 3 – some nature, others more likely suffering due to nurture. One day I hope to have a sufficient grasp of astrology that I can write in some depth about this. My mother was almost certainly a psychopath with what looks like textbook additional extreme Narcissistic Personality Disorder and a pretty convincing display of Munchausen’s by Proxy. She was hospitalised several times, but it was all hushed up so we never really knew what was wrong with her – probably the medics didn’t either. This was long before anyone really understood much about these conditions. She was ruthless, brilliant and very good at covering her tracks. I barely survived her covert efforts to starve me to death as an infant. She kept a diary detailing this. I now have it. My younger brother and two of my sisters were similarly afflicted. Only my older brother and I escaped. Mother was March 20 1927, 7am Houston Texas. She has Sun exactly conjunct Uranus in the last degree of 12th House Pisces, square her Node. Her Ascendant is in 1st House Aries, opposing her Moon and squaring Pluto. Her Moon is also in opposition to Venus in Aries, conjunct Chiron in the last degree of that sign. Her 12th H. Pisces Mercury is closely conjunct Jupiter, squaring Mars, which in turn opposes Saturn in 8th H. Sag. Her Lilith is 6th H. libra. Mother was herself subject to abandonment and abuse, and her own mother was likely bi-polar, as was her grandmother and sister. Mother’s chart is not the worst in the family – there are surviving members who have charts that would make any astrologer weep. My own is fairly challenging but as with any chart, it is possible to turn a negative into a positive, and as I got older I learned how to channel those gnarly into something useful and even cathartic. Wouldn’t it be great if the mental health professions worked with astrologers to find the best way to counsel and treat their patients?
That would definitely great if doctors asked help from astrologers. But I think it maybe would be too hard to grasp. People around me don’t always understand the astrology story. I have had tremendous help because of it. And turned my life around because of it. Life is a constant progress and so are transits.
Not that I like that lol. Now having Neptune SQ Neptune. But I am trying to float.. :))
‘Life is a constant progress and so are transits.’
So true Carmen.
I just took a closer look at my mother’s chart and found more revealing information. In addition to her having a cardinal T-square (Cancer Pluto opposing Capricorn Saturn Rx with an Aries Moon/Mars/Uranus apex); her natal Aries Mars exactly conjuncts my natal Aries SN, and my 4H Gemini Mars exactly conjuncts her natal Sun! Combative relationship, indeed.
I agree with you, EleanorD, the psychology of astrology is an invaluable mental health treatment tool.
Last year I underwent Jungian analysis for a couple of months. Having had extensive counselling and psychotherapy in my younger years (which was very beneficial) this was more to do with some research I was doing rather than mental health issues. The sessions with my analyst were extremely interesting, especially as Jung was into astrology and so was this practitioner. In recalling the behaviour of certain family members I was able to connect some of their behaviour to their charts – he understood what this meant. Jungian analysis is the only therapy I am aware of in which astrology is used to delve more deeply into the individual human psyche. But this type of psychotherapy is rare and not for the faint-hearted. I wonder if a more mainstream form of this therapy using the nativity as a tool can’t be developed?
I have a friend who has been abused by multiple adults. I glanced at the chart of the woman who adopted my friend, abused her in various ways, and abandoned her. Moon square Mars jumped out at me.
I can add that my own mother also has moon square Mars. Specifically Mars conjunct Sun in Cancer in her 3rd house, square 12th house moon in Aries. Yes she can be scary and mean and carries her own set of flaws, but she has always been a good, supportive, loving parent, and a generous, thoughtful, kind person. My mom and I both have Pluto in the 4th.
my mother’s moon is in scorpio in the fifth house, conjunct neptune, and square venus, mars, and uranus in the second house.
she was very unpredictable, likely has an undiagnosed mental illness. you never knew for sure if something she said or did would set her off and have her yelling and hitting.
if she got really angry, she’d threaten to kill herself and then leave us (three small children) alone for hours, not knowing if she was ever coming back.
she also had periods of depression where she would just lie in bed and ignore all of us for days, so from a young age i was cooking, doing laundry, etc
personally, i don’t think you can predict abusive mothers from their natal charts.
my mother’s sun trine moon could’ve done a lot to ease her suffering with an afflicted moon in fall. her saturn trine the uranus/venus/mars conjunction could have allowed her to control her unpredictable anger.
but i do think you see the effects of her mothering in the natal charts of her children.
all of us have sun square moon (earth sun/fire moon for each of us, an excellent representation of our parents short-lived marriage and long-lived fighting that they never left us out of)
my moon squares my sun, neptune and uranus in the 8th house.
my sister has a mega capricorn conjunction (including mars) conjunct her imum coeli and the whole thing is squared by her moon.
my brother’s moon is probably the most complicated, since it’s part of both a t square (with the sun and uranus) and a grand trine (with pluto and saturn).
In my family, mothers abuse their daughters from one generation to the next and there is a very strong Moon-Pluto conjunction in all women’s charts (my grandmother’s, my mother’s, my sisters’ and my own. I have a conjunction with an orb of 9° and have had to fight castrating tendencies learned from my mother. My sisters are just as manipulative, controlling and abusive as my mother. None of us had children. My mother is a Sagittarius with a Leo Moon, her mother was a Leo. Fire adds the required selfishness to make the abuse feel perfectly ok.
I know someone who for years we thought was an overprotective mom. Moon-pluto conjunct. both square sun.
Less than a month ago started to realize the extent of her selfish behavior, using her very young child as a pawn and extreme emotional and mental abuse of her child. The child now seems to have no existence outside the manipulative mother.
The father behaves like a classic abuse victim and keeps giving into any demands for the sake of the child. Unfortunately what she convinces him is for her child is for her own selfish ness.
Sorry, this family has been on my mind a lot this week and not being able to do enough for the young child is frustrating.
I’m sorry I don’t mean to say moon or sun in harsh aspects to pluto make abusive parents. Far from it. If they work on it, they would be very very good parents.
Only, these are the strongest aspects for this person. Also, for some reason I always thought she was abused by her own mother because of how much hate and anger is there in their interactions. Yet a fanatical level of love for her father.
my own mother has a detriment in scorpio venus conjunct her Jupiter, mercury but her cruelty is only in giving silent treatments. she’s a libra sun, and she came from a very loving family, and her sister (my Cancer sun aunt) are both very loving people; the only thing is that my mother can be super controlling, like she can’t let go and is so unbearable with the control. Other than that, she chose a life of servitude and pain and suffering. It’s as if she would rather be martyr. Her relationship with my father was never good to be honest. they have the worst marriage I’ve ever seen; they even sleep separately for decades. It might explain too why I married very young and chose two men who were abusive and horrible to me early in life. However, I broke out of that pattern for some reason. And met two men after who treated me like a Queen.
hmm it made me realize when a person/individual has no control of the environment or of their life, they can turn out super controlling. that might be a prerequisite to turning out so controlling when you one has no control.
my brain works weirdly but I was just remembering how controlling men try to control their women, or vice versa, and the women/or men go out and cheat openly and basically middle finger their partners & openly cheat, defy, because their partners are so controlling. (i remember a post blog about it on this site too) it might be that way. it’s hard for a lot of people to go with the flow and let things be. that life has changes for us, not pre packaged and planned.
This is concerning to me, because my father was abused as a child, emotionally and also beaten physically.
He vowed to never hit his own children, which he didn’t. But the emotional abuse was crippling. He’s got a lot of harsh aspects in his chart, including his moon, squaring Saturn and Sun in a t-square and Mars opposing Pluto/Jupiter. His chart reads as extremely self-righteous to me, and that would describe him. Self-righteous and MEAN. He’ll put you in your place, somehow, someway.
I look at my own chart, I have moon squaring Mars, but also sextiling Jupiter. I have Sun/Mercury squaring Pluto, but also supportive aspects, unlike my father’s chart.
If, God forbid, my children saw me as abusive I don’t know what I would do. It might be my biggest fear, passing on the abuse I received without realizing it, or enabling my husband to do so somehow.
My monster-mother’s natal positions: Mars in the first house (very aggressive, even against her own self with accidents) – in opposition to a Saturn/Uranus conjunction. Also, Moon conjunct Pluto in Leo. It goes on… Sun/Venus/Mercury conjunction opposing Jupiter in Cancer. One of the most evil and fake people I’ve ever met.
@Keepgoing :Wow that’s one hell of a placement. I know someone with mars in 1st house , but in Libra . Still very agressive towards goals.
I do also have to mention that I experience the same behavior with my brother. Like my best friend said last time on the phone: you didn’t get rid of your mother because you still have your brother. It is very sad but she’s right. Very violent and angry all the time. First I thought ah he is hurt and sad because he cant lean on my mom. But his leaning on me is very stressing. And when he’s mad at my mom for being violent and drunk I say to him: why don’t you tell her that? His response is then: I can’t act angry towards her because if she dies I wouldn’t forgive myself. While all the time he acts all his stress out on me, and he loves me, but his behavior towards be is getting worse. It even made me move 130 Miles away. It gives me so much mental rest. I wonder if there are more of you who experience the behavior of the parents in their siblings?
Oh no, your brother too… Well, both my sisters unfortunately inherited the evil gene. One of them is fully evil, the other is half human half evil. I’m totally no contact with the fully evil one, and very low contact with the other. It’s all very sad, but we have to protect ourselves. I’m almost certain it’s all inherited, their brain amygdala have a malfunction. I’ve read that in some cases this can be caused by severe head injury when you’re a child. Of course, if one is born with such a tendency already, it’s no good that the mother is evil – they copy her, they learn from her…
Plus, I’ve noticed this: nasty people do NOT like other nasty people. So, if your brother doesn’t like your mother, this does not mean that he’s a nice person.
Yes unfortunately, when i was younger my cousins who were my moms favorite joined the brutal game also. My brother adores my mom, even tho he hates the fact she’s an alcoholic. He’s frustrated with an abusive relationship where he doesn’t want to get out, and even tho he doesn’t want to, he acts it out on me. Yeah it excists a man who gets abused. I stayed away from that a long time ago. He cant handle money, got himself many times into debts. And because I got tired of helping him. He lived many times with me, when he was broke. I decided to manage his money. That now feels like a block to the leg. I even manage my moms bills in order to keep the troubles away. But I see now I keep it at a distance, I thought it would change him and make him grow up. It’s tiring. I am utterly grateful for my precious boyfriend who keeps me grounded and showers me with his love. Otherwise I would have gone mad. I just don’t want to be on the same frequency as he is. I do agree about the malfunction. He saw my mom treated me bad and he does the same in order to keep me down. It’s difficult to explain. I guess he feels better then. He didn’t want me to move but I got up anyway. I love him, but not to the point that I allow him to drag me down into his mess. The sad part is, there will soon come a time I have to cut off contact with him too. But like I said it’s very complicated. I don’t know what’s worse , an addicted family member or a family member that’s bipolar and having mental problems.
I wonder if abusive or cheating men produce children with Gemini Suns. I know this sounds strange, but I have noticed a lot of men who cheat have Gemini children. Also, I wonder if abusive moms make for Cancer children. I’ve also noticed this. Has anyone noticed this also?