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Michelle Carter
Found guilty of Involuntary manslaughter on texting suicide case
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Phoenix9061210
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Saturday, August 12, 2017 - 11:03 am
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Teresina said
She texted him awful things over a period of 2 months. She was frustrated, which is why some of what she said was so awful. Previous to that, they were together for 2-3 years and every time he talked about suicide, she discouraged him from suicide and encouraged him to get professional help. People seem to forget this. The month before she started thinking it would be a good idea if he actually commited suicide after repeatedly telling her how much he wanted to for years, she said if she were him, she would get help. His response was that help didn't work. In the court transcript, she read that if you start agreeing with a person, they might start to realize how stupid the thing they want to do is, but she said it didn't work. He continued to be as bad shape as he was.

Yeah, perhaps it's something to do with female psychology. She was sort of lost inside this guy. She couldn't disattach.

I have this cousin that is always saying he's going to commit suicide because of a medical condition. He refuses to accept any help or look for it himself and he refuses any attempt at socialising. I emailed and phoned him recently and he has not responded. If I carry on doing it, it will just start to be harassment!

(Of course I would have a problem like that! Pluto in the seventh is outwards facing as well as inwards).

This kind of attitude is very exasperating and it does lead to the feeling of wanting to shake someone in order to get some sort of reaction out of them that isn't so deliberately depressive. Although, since there are adults involved the reaction to him is of course far more measured. Except from from the enablers.

While I would prefer such damsels of the dark stayed away from him I can understand the mindset to an extent.

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This will be unpopular.

Where in the hell was his mother in all this? His father?

My youngest son was a nightmare at 16 years old. He was never suicidal but he sure was a risk taker.

This meant I had to kick into overdrive. I spent most of my time up his ass, taking his car and phone away. Pulling him out of underage drinking/pot smoking/pill bonfire parties where I had him around the neck dragging him OUT. It meant watching him because he was showing signs he was just not smart enough or emotionally mature enough to watch himself.

He decided he was going to go live with his father at 16. That only caused me to watch him closer. I couldn't stop his moving. But I didn't leave the responsibility on his neglectful father. I was involved with the school and the school counselor, had a counselor on hand and two doctors. I was also in close contact with our local police department. We were all on board. This kid was going to graduate from high school, and he was going to do it alive if I had to handcuff myself to him. I was willing to go to school every day, or even take him out of school. At one point I told him I was going to strip his ass of his rights and he would be on lock down until he made better decisions.

I really don't give two shits what anyone thinks about this. He is alive, a father of two, has a great job and loves his wife and daughters. He is thriving.

He had an asshole girlfriend that was older than him. She did this and that.... and then I took care of HER. (she even tried to re-enter his life after Scorpio moon was born and destroy the relationship he had with DIL) I went straight to the source. HER. I asked her if she wanted to be a fucking local star? I told her I was going to make her famous, then go to her fiancé and tell him she was showing up at his job, calling and texting him. You've never seen a Taurus sun run for their life faster. She told people I was crazy. I told her to remember that whenever she was compelled to destroy my granddaughters life with her parents again.

I am no better than the next guy. But I have a deep understanding of what happens to kids that aren't watched. I had to raise my mothers children. We were not watched properly.

If you are going to have a child then know the job doesn't end at any age. You are their parent for the rest of your life.

There are a lot of articles that claim his mother was a real piece of work. Father too. And, that the kid had mental problems for years. He was also abused by family according to reports.

Today's youth have lost human contact that is so important for a healthy relationship with other people. Texting does not replace the need for human companionship. These kids are being raised by cell phones. It's easier to give a kid a cell phone and turn them loose.

In the end, it was he who decided to kill himself. And if a text could coerce him to do so, then his fucking parents should have been well aware of the fact that he wasn't playing with a full deck. How are you going to have a kid with mental issues and not be watching what the hell he is doing? If the kid had no legs mommy would have had to push him in a wheelchair. You don't notice your child is struggling?

Was it wrong? Her texting this bullshit to him? Hell yes it was wrong. I would have that little shit around her neck!!!!!!!!! She would have sent ONE text and her phone would have been UP HER ASS!!!!!!!!  But if he was mentally unstable why in the hell was the family sitting back on their thumbs? And again I am no better than anyone....but I can tell you this - I watched my babies that turned into children that turned into pre-teens that turned into teens that turned into 19-20-21 and moving forward. Some of them don't need as much supervision as others. I knew my youngest needed a guard on duty until he got some fucking sense!!!!!!!!!

Why are we making monthly payments on cell phones and internet for our kids and not looking at the content coming in and going out?

At 19 my son was still acting like an asshole. That is when he went into the Army and a drill sergeant got ahold of him and pulled the rest of the punk out of him. I tried every other thing. I knew he was going to get killed in a car accident or drink too much and cause accidental harm to someone else. I knew my kid. When he got out of the Army....he was different and almost there...but still on some risk taker ground. And I went after him again.

It's a LOT of work. The hardest work I have ever had to do in my life. But, I decided to put him on this earth. And, I knew he was my job until he knew how to make better and more solid decisions. He was a huge PAIN IN THE ASS. He was a smart ass. Cocky. A back talker. He would take off. He would get in my face and I would knock him on his ass! 6 feet tall. Linebacker in high school football. And, I would knock him on his ass. All this and an honor roll student. This wasn't a stupid kid. But his decisions were hideous.

We have had many talks about those days (he and I) now that he is older and can look back on that time he knows what I went through to keep his ass going.

If you could see the kind of father he is today, you wouldn't doubt my efforts.

That girl is a prime example of the new soulless techno generation. These kids aren't  showing any of the qualities and feelings (such as sympathy and kindness) that make people human because they are allowed to communicate through a phone or a computer. There is no human interaction these days. He is an example of what happens to a young man who has no one watching his struggles. This wasn't his first rodeo. We have to remember she was 17. I am trying to remember how solid I was at 17. What my own kids were like at 17. I had no business making any lifelong important decisions at 17....and the ones I made at 18 were sad and have caused me a lifetime of problems.

Was I ever worried that the authorities would come up on me and think because I got my boys around the neck and physically dragged them out of situations that I would be accused of something? NO. If I am paying your bills, and supporting you completely and you are 6 feet tall and get in my face .....your going to get knocked on your ass and your going to do the right thing. I realize there are some kids that you just cant do a thing with. And, there are going to be kids and adults that you just cant save from suicide or even prison. Still, you have to go in fighting for them. I was willing to fight to the death.

We are creating monsters who don't have any empathy or feelings for anybody. The parents, who allow kids to grow up into robots without feelings should be on trial. Where in the hell where HER PARENTS? Why at 17 was she freely allowed to text that shit in the first place?

This is just another example of how we are never finished being a parent. Teenagers don't make the best decisions. I had to watch my sons CLOSER after the age of 14 than I ever did when they were babies or young children and they were raised in the middle of a corn field. Why are we handing these people the keys to a car and setting them free?

Emerging science about brain development suggests that most people don't reach full maturity until the age 25. And I can tell you neither of mine started acting right until about that age. Critical parts of the brain involved in decision making are not fully developed until after age 25 or so. Under most laws, young people are recognized as adults at age 18. Most of the privileges and responsibilities of adulthood are legally granted by the age of 18. That's when you can vote, enlist in the military, move out on your own, but is that the true age of maturity? I say NO. And I watched it first hand...with my own.

Every lasting bad decision I have ever made happened before I was 25 years old. And I have paid for them for my entire life.

I am calling out the parents ....both sets. His parents. And her parents!!!!!! They dropped the ball.

I was lucky. I got good information. From my grandparents. My paternal grandmother told me something that stuck with me all my life. She said if she had one regret it was not going in the last time my father got into trouble and fighting with all she had. She said that cost him 15 years. She said he was making bad decisions and was a nightmare for years....and she just got tired. She said she was just sick of his bullshit, and tired of the fight. My father (who I don't know well) spent 15 years in prison. She sat with me one day and said ....without doubt....If you ever have children don't you ever give up on them. Family and raising the children you put on this earth have to come before any other thing you do. You're responsible. You don't get to be tired. She felt that when she gave up, it cost me a father.

There were so many times I was so sick of my son acting like an asshole I just wanted to move away. There were so many times I wanted to strangle him. There were so many times that I was emotionally spent, crying, at my lowest of lows. There were so many times I thought to myself.... I am not going to be able to stop him ....he is going to drink and run over a family of 5 in the car I bought him. Or, get killed in a car accident. There were even times I wondered why I had kids at all. But it wasn't about me. It was about him. With his Gemini Stellium and that strong Mars in Scorpio fighting me with that mouth of his..... trying to run me and everyone else down with that mars. He'd say -I'm going to do it. And I'd say NO you are NOT. He'd call me the warden, Jesus, and tell people he was being raised by a Sith Lord. Pfffttt .....didn't matter to me. I just wanted him to get the chance to grow up. And, I wanted him alive.

Today he has to look Scorpio Moon in the face ..... he's not going to let her down. The baton was passed the day she was born. He has a Cap wife and a Scorpio moon daughter.

I don't want disparage my son. I am not trying to paint a picture of an irresponsible nightmare adult. He is a good man. But he was a horrible teen and 20 something. Some kids just cause no problems. Some of them are these outstanding people early on. And, some of them need more handling. They need someone to stand over them until they are able to make mature decisions. My son was a child of divorce. He didn't have a father that paid 5 minutes worth of attention to him. Do I blame his father? No, I blamed myself for choosing that kind of person to have a child with when I was under the age of 25. I picked a piece of shit to procreate with. Then I walked. This burden was on ME. I was in charge of what happened, and I was responsible for the mess. I started and caused the mess. I was the one responsible for the clean up.

There she sits. The girl with the Scarlet Letter on her chest. This vicious little psychopath! She is completely to blame for what happened to this young man. Witch hunt. Hang her in the streets. She is a cold killer. No one wants to go back into the history of these two kids and see what led to this event. No one wants to look at how they both got there. We are talking about a 17 and 18 year old. What life events led to his death and her imprisonment?

I am afraid we need to go back much further than those text messages. The ball was dropped by FOUR people long before this happened. If you are going to put a person on this planet then I think you should be prepared to LOVE it more than you love anything. Including yourself ....there is no time to get tired. Even with our best intentions and hardest effort we are going to find that sometimes the end of the story isn't pleasant. But you better be prepared to put the work in if you are going to have kids. You cant stand in a courtroom and accuse a 17 year old of murder if you dropped the ball yourself.

Raising kids (in my opinion) is the most important job you'll ever do. Be prepared. It's hard fucking work to raise a decent human being. If you aren't prepared to give up your shit to do it....don't have them. I have made so many mistakes. With my life, and with the decision to have children before I was old enough to make decisions. It would have been much easier to let him fail and end up with an American tragedy. Then blame his dad....go on vacation and say....well, he is 18 years old. Let him suffer the consequences. But that is what happened to me. It was NOT going to happen to my kids. Even today.....if they ask me I am going to give it to them straight. I am not paid to be their friend. I am their mother. The person that has to tell them the truth when asked a question. The person that has to tell them NO... THAT'S WRONG... TELL THE TRUTH....

I had to be the warden, Jesus, and the Sith Lord. This was no picnic. They liked and loved everyone better than me. 

But, what do I know?

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 4:35 am
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It doesn't surprise me that the guy had a history of psychological problems. 

Bullies and predators can always pick out the most vulnerable people and love kicking those who are already down. 

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 4:42 am
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@ Phoenix: 

If she was taken to church every week for instance this wouldn't have happened most likely. 

Priests spend an awful lot of time in church. Didn't stop them from molesting kids.  

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 4:57 am
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SOME priests.

Phoenix, I agree with what you said in an earlier thread about consequences being the only  effective deterrent against people with no conscience like Michelle Carter. 

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 9:51 am
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Very inspiring soup. In my view you are the female equivalent of a Stefan Molyneux type of soul. Parallels are the ongoing energy to do all these things, the perspective that crosses boundaries, the appliance of philosophies to real world change. It's people like you that have stopped the world crumbling into a deep state agenda many years ago. The other factor these types cannot see in their models.

When they are trying to plan societal disintegration they are misdirected to the extra terrestrial new age linked sorts of slightly supernatural souls, the "light shows". David Wilcock, Benjamin Fulford, Trump, Farage etc. They don't understand how people that are less of a light show and are in fact far more humble can simply stop their plans coming to fruition in the background and have no way to target these people.

-----------------------------

On justice: I do not know that we can get justice in the way our current society is until there is a very large change, one of the astrologers I really respect once said that Saturn is collective, not individual and that is the only way to understand it, (I suppose we would say social) I believe that about karma. When the manifestation of Saturn changes and I believe it will, it will not only effect official law but also, the things that people do that are sick on this same level which are not technically illegal.

I wonder what one of the Syrians would think if they looked at this situation. They would have probably have deployed this boy in the battlefield if they needed to, he would not have had the space to obsess over this introverted stuff, and the girl would have far more important things to worry about... This problem is a very first world problem.

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 9:53 am
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ScottishFoldSoul said
@ Phoenix: 

If she was taken to church every week for instance this wouldn't have happened most likely. 

Priests spend an awful lot of time in church. Didn't stop them from molesting kids.    

The point is that there is a communal aspect to church that forces people into being moral. Not that the physical presence of being in a church would have been expected to change her like magic.

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 10:05 am
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soup said
This will be unpopular.

Where in the hell was his mother in all this? His father?

My youngest son was a nightmare at 16 years old. He was never suicidal but he sure was a risk taker.

This meant I had to kick into overdrive. I spent most of my time up his ass, taking his car and phone away. Pulling him out of underage drinking/pot smoking/pill bonfire parties where I had him around the neck dragging him OUT. It meant watching him because he was showing signs he was just not smart enough or emotionally mature enough to watch himself.

He decided he was going to go live with his father at 16. That only caused me to watch him closer. I couldn't stop his moving. But I didn't leave the responsibility on his neglectful father. I was involved with the school and the school counselor, had a counselor on hand and two doctors. I was also in close contact with our local police department. We were all on board. This kid was going to graduate from high school, and he was going to do it alive if I had to handcuff myself to him. I was willing to go to school every day, or even take him out of school. At one point I told him I was going to strip his ass of his rights and he would be on lock down until he made better decisions.

I really don't give two shits what anyone thinks about this. He is alive, a father of two, has a great job and loves his wife and daughters. He is thriving.

He had an asshole girlfriend that was older than him. She did this and that.... and then I took care of HER. (she even tried to re-enter his life after Scorpio moon was born and destroy the relationship he had with DIL) I went straight to the source. HER. I asked her if she wanted to be a fucking local star? I told her I was going to make her famous, then go to her fiancé and tell him she was showing up at his job, calling and texting him. You've never seen a Taurus sun run for their life faster. She told people I was crazy. I told her to remember that whenever she was compelled to destroy my granddaughters life with her parents again.

I am no better than the next guy. But I have a deep understanding of what happens to kids that aren't watched. I had to raise my mothers children. We were not watched properly.

If you are going to have a child then know the job doesn't end at any age. You are their parent for the rest of your life.

There are a lot of articles that claim his mother was a real piece of work. Father too. And, that the kid had mental problems for years. He was also abused by family according to reports.

Today's youth have lost human contact that is so important for a healthy relationship with other people. Texting does not replace the need for human companionship. These kids are being raised by cell phones. It's easier to give a kid a cell phone and turn them loose.

In the end, it was he who decided to kill himself. And if a text could coerce him to do so, then his fucking parents should have been well aware of the fact that he wasn't playing with a full deck. How are you going to have a kid with mental issues and not be watching what the hell he is doing? If the kid had no legs mommy would have had to push him in a wheelchair. You don't notice your child is struggling?

Was it wrong? Her texting this bullshit to him? Hell yes it was wrong. I would have that little shit around her neck!!!!!!!!! She would have sent ONE text and her phone would have been UP HER ASS!!!!!!!!  But if he was mentally unstable why in the hell was the family sitting back on their thumbs? And again I am no better than anyone....but I can tell you this - I watched my babies that turned into children that turned into pre-teens that turned into teens that turned into 19-20-21 and moving forward. Some of them don't need as much supervision as others. I knew my youngest needed a guard on duty until he got some fucking sense!!!!!!!!!

Why are we making monthly payments on cell phones and internet for our kids and not looking at the content coming in and going out?

At 19 my son was still acting like an asshole. That is when he went into the Army and a drill sergeant got ahold of him and pulled the rest of the punk out of him. I tried every other thing. I knew he was going to get killed in a car accident or drink too much and cause accidental harm to someone else. I knew my kid. When he got out of the Army....he was different and almost there...but still on some risk taker ground. And I went after him again.

It's a LOT of work. The hardest work I have ever had to do in my life. But, I decided to put him on this earth. And, I knew he was my job until he knew how to make better and more solid decisions. He was a huge PAIN IN THE ASS. He was a smart ass. Cocky. A back talker. He would take off. He would get in my face and I would knock him on his ass! 6 feet tall. Linebacker in high school football. And, I would knock him on his ass. All this and an honor roll student. This wasn't a stupid kid. But his decisions were hideous.

We have had many talks about those days (he and I) now that he is older and can look back on that time he knows what I went through to keep his ass going.

If you could see the kind of father he is today, you wouldn't doubt my efforts.

That girl is a prime example of the new soulless techno generation. These kids aren't  showing any of the qualities and feelings (such as sympathy and kindness) that make people human because they are allowed to communicate through a phone or a computer. There is no human interaction these days. He is an example of what happens to a young man who has no one watching his struggles. This wasn't his first rodeo. We have to remember she was 17. I am trying to remember how solid I was at 17. What my own kids were like at 17. I had no business making any lifelong important decisions at 17....and the ones I made at 18 were sad and have caused me a lifetime of problems.

Was I ever worried that the authorities would come up on me and think because I got my boys around the neck and physically dragged them out of situations that I would be accused of something? NO. If I am paying your bills, and supporting you completely and you are 6 feet tall and get in my face .....your going to get knocked on your ass and your going to do the right thing. I realize there are some kids that you just cant do a thing with. And, there are going to be kids and adults that you just cant save from suicide or even prison. Still, you have to go in fighting for them. I was willing to fight to the death.

We are creating monsters who don't have any empathy or feelings for anybody. The parents, who allow kids to grow up into robots without feelings should be on trial. Where in the hell where HER PARENTS? Why at 17 was she freely allowed to text that shit in the first place?

This is just another example of how we are never finished being a parent. Teenagers don't make the best decisions. I had to watch my sons CLOSER after the age of 14 than I ever did when they were babies or young children and they were raised in the middle of a corn field. Why are we handing these people the keys to a car and setting them free?

Emerging science about brain development suggests that most people don't reach full maturity until the age 25. And I can tell you neither of mine started acting right until about that age. Critical parts of the brain involved in decision making are not fully developed until after age 25 or so. Under most laws, young people are recognized as adults at age 18. Most of the privileges and responsibilities of adulthood are legally granted by the age of 18. That's when you can vote, enlist in the military, move out on your own, but is that the true age of maturity? I say NO. And I watched it first hand...with my own.

Every lasting bad decision I have ever made happened before I was 25 years old. And I have paid for them for my entire life.

I am calling out the parents ....both sets. His parents. And her parents!!!!!! They dropped the ball.

I was lucky. I got good information. From my grandparents. My paternal grandmother told me something that stuck with me all my life. She said if she had one regret it was not going in the last time my father got into trouble and fighting with all she had. She said that cost him 15 years. She said he was making bad decisions and was a nightmare for years....and she just got tired. She said she was just sick of his bullshit, and tired of the fight. My father (who I don't know well) spent 15 years in prison. She sat with me one day and said ....without doubt....If you ever have children don't you ever give up on them. Family and raising the children you put on this earth have to come before any other thing you do. You're responsible. You don't get to be tired. She felt that when she gave up, it cost me a father.

There were so many times I was so sick of my son acting like an asshole I just wanted to move away. There were so many times I wanted to strangle him. There were so many times that I was emotionally spent, crying, at my lowest of lows. There were so many times I thought to myself.... I am not going to be able to stop him ....he is going to drink and run over a family of 5 in the car I bought him. Or, get killed in a car accident. There were even times I wondered why I had kids at all. But it wasn't about me. It was about him. With his Gemini Stellium and that strong Mars in Scorpio fighting me with that mouth of his..... trying to run me and everyone else down with that mars. He'd say -I'm going to do it. And I'd say NO you are NOT. He'd call me the warden, Jesus, and tell people he was being raised by a Sith Lord. Pfffttt .....didn't matter to me. I just wanted him to get the chance to grow up. And, I wanted him alive.

Today he has to look Scorpio Moon in the face ..... he's not going to let her down. The baton was passed the day she was born. He has a Cap wife and a Scorpio moon daughter.

I don't want disparage my son. I am not trying to paint a picture of an irresponsible nightmare adult. He is a good man. But he was a horrible teen and 20 something. Some kids just cause no problems. Some of them are these outstanding people early on. And, some of them need more handling. They need someone to stand over them until they are able to make mature decisions. My son was a child of divorce. He didn't have a father that paid 5 minutes worth of attention to him. Do I blame his father? No, I blamed myself for choosing that kind of person to have a child with when I was under the age of 25. I picked a piece of shit to procreate with. Then I walked. This burden was on ME. I was in charge of what happened, and I was responsible for the mess. I started and caused the mess. I was the one responsible for the clean up.

There she sits. The girl with the Scarlet Letter on her chest. This vicious little psychopath! She is completely to blame for what happened to this young man. Witch hunt. Hang her in the streets. She is a cold killer. No one wants to go back into the history of these two kids and see what led to this event. No one wants to look at how they both got there. We are talking about a 17 and 18 year old. What life events led to his death and her imprisonment?

I am afraid we need to go back much further than those text messages. The ball was dropped by FOUR people long before this happened. If you are going to put a person on this planet then I think you should be prepared to LOVE it more than you love anything. Including yourself ....there is no time to get tired. Even with our best intentions and hardest effort we are going to find that sometimes the end of the story isn't pleasant. But you better be prepared to put the work in if you are going to have kids. You cant stand in a courtroom and accuse a 17 year old of murder if you dropped the ball yourself.

Raising kids (in my opinion) is the most important job you'll ever do. Be prepared. It's hard fucking work to raise a decent human being. If you aren't prepared to give up your shit to do it....don't have them. I have made so many mistakes. With my life, and with the decision to have children before I was old enough to make decisions. It would have been much easier to let him fail and end up with an American tragedy. Then blame his dad....go on vacation and say....well, he is 18 years old. Let him suffer the consequences. But that is what happened to me. It was NOT going to happen to my kids. Even today.....if they ask me I am going to give it to them straight. I am not paid to be their friend. I am their mother. The person that has to tell them the truth when asked a question. The person that has to tell them NO... THAT'S WRONG... TELL THE TRUTH....

I had to be the warden, Jesus, and the Sith Lord. This was no picnic. They liked and loved everyone better than me. 

But, what do I know?  

Why do we abandon the mentally ill? 

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 10:14 am
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Personally, I would put my son/daughter with a counselor/therapist/psychologist/etc./whatever

I might hire a weekly counselor to talk to him.

There's still a weird nonchalance towards mental illness.....until the mentally unbalanced person is pulling a knife on someone, and then suddenly the family members, and friends, start to 'care'.

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 10:26 am
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And here's my Libra coming in.

Personally, when I was 'unwell', I was hell to be around, I would akin myself to the girl in The Exorcist. Yeah, mentally unbalanced people are hard to be around, so maybe we lose friends we deserve to lose. 

It could be that 18 year old dude was snotty and grating to be around, so his family members backed away. We don't know the full details, and story. 

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 5:22 pm
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anonymoushermit said
Personally, I would put my son/daughter with a counselor/therapist/psychologist/etc./whatever

I might hire a weekly counselor to talk to him.

There's still a weird nonchalance towards mental illness.....until the mentally unbalanced person is pulling a knife on someone, and then suddenly the family members, and friends, start to 'care'.  

Hasn't done anything for my cousin. While I don't know if this is the case with him it is true that some people do not want to be helped, or at least seem to. 

The reason there is a nonchalance is that there are a lot of "suicidal" attention seekers and from a medical standpoint, as long as someone has proven "capacity" they are not able to be interfered with. Of course this is a grey area with some mental illness, but basically, it is not illegal to say you want to commit suicide and there are no grounds for any sort of forced psychiatric care in a lot of instances.

On a side note, Martha Stout once asked a sociopath what their greatest desire was, she said she would have preferred to hear something along the lines of 'to kill', 'to make people miserable', 'to torture' etc. The actual response she got was 'to be pitied' and it is the number one way in which sociopaths extract resources from others.

“After listening for almost twenty-five years to the stories my patients tell me about sociopaths who have invaded and injured their lives, when I am asked, “How can I tell whom not to trust?” the answer I give usually surprises people. The natural expectation is that I will describe some sinister-sounding detail of behavior or snippet of body language or threatening use of language that is the subtle giveaway. Instead, I take people aback by assuring them that the tip-off is none of these things, for none of these things is reliably present. Rather, the best clue is, of all things, the pity play. The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness. It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy.”

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 - 6:39 pm
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Phoenix9061210 said

anonymoushermit said
Personally, I would put my son/daughter with a counselor/therapist/psychologist/etc./whatever

I might hire a weekly counselor to talk to him.

There's still a weird nonchalance towards mental illness.....until the mentally unbalanced person is pulling a knife on someone, and then suddenly the family members, and friends, start to 'care'.  

Hasn't done anything for my cousin. While I don't know if this is the case with him it is true that some people do not want to be helped, or at least seem to. 

The reason there is a nonchalance is that there are a lot of "suicidal" attention seekers and from a medical standpoint, as long as someone has proven "capacity" they are not able to be interfered with. Of course this is a grey area with some mental illness, but basically, it is not illegal to say you want to commit suicide and there are no grounds for any sort of forced psychiatric care in a lot of instances.

On a side note, Martha Stout once asked a sociopath what their greatest desire was, she said she would have preferred to hear something along the lines of 'to kill', 'to make people miserable', 'to torture' etc. The actual response she got was 'to be pitied' and it is the number one way in which sociopaths extract resources from others.

“After listening for almost twenty-five years to the stories my patients tell me about sociopaths who have invaded and injured their lives, when I am asked, “How can I tell whom not to trust?” the answer I give usually surprises people. The natural expectation is that I will describe some sinister-sounding detail of behavior or snippet of body language or threatening use of language that is the subtle giveaway. Instead, I take people aback by assuring them that the tip-off is none of these things, for none of these things is reliably present. Rather, the best clue is, of all things, the pity play. The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness. It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy.”

  

Someone made a great comment about Sinead O' Connor. They said that she's still in denial about her Bipolar and has no one to blame, but herself for people flocking away from her.

It's not the fact that she has bipolar, or is acting out her Bipolar that is making her family members fly away, it's the fact that she's not taking her medication and is in denial about her illness, that is making her family run away from her.

The person commented that Sinead needs to take responsibility for her life, and her illness. I thought the whole comment was great and I agreed with all of it.

The ironic thing is that the comment was made by someone who had Bipolar themselves.

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Monday, August 14, 2017 - 5:59 pm
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anonymoushermit said
Personally, I would put my son/daughter with a counselor/therapist/psychologist/etc./whatever

I might hire a weekly counselor to talk to him.

There's still a weird nonchalance towards mental illness.....until the mentally unbalanced person is pulling a knife on someone, and then suddenly the family members, and friends, start to 'care'.  

So would I. Or whatever I had to do....I would stay after it day and night. If he made an attempt on his life before,  did they just forget that it happened? I would let nothing go unnoticed. And, even so he may still take his life (in my care) but I would be on red alert at all times. There is a weird nonchalance toward mental illness. I see it all the time. Within my own family. Do they have to climb to the top of a clock tower and mow down 30 people before someone steps in?

My youngest sister (13 years younger) is bipolar. We are all well aware she is fragile at times. And, since I love her I check on her regularly. Include her and keep my eyes open. Just two weeks ago she was crying and said....no one can see it because its in my head....my anxiety and confusion....no one can see it, they dismiss it like I am a liar or a faker. But I am aware that I am sick from time to time. I cant get anyone to understand. She cried hard. She said, if I were bleeding out my eyes everyone would run to help....but this is hidden. She wears herself out with guilt about it because either no one believes her, or they just wont listen. Doctors included at times.

A suicide attempt is a LOUD WARNING BELL ringing. People aren't cured just because they don't seem to be showing any outward signs.

I think the texting girl was a stupid fool. She maybe sick herself. Its written she has had all kinds of problems from depression to eating disorders. These two should have never been keeping company ....at all. Either way, she is alive and he is not. And, that is awful. But, I still think the parents on both ends should have been sitting on top of those mountains. Its not hard to notice your child is struggling if you are paying attention.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 11:48 am
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We want someone to blame. I'm sure the parents had the best of intentions (he had been to four different treatment facilities.) and I think she did too. 

One of her defenses is that she was taking a new antidepressant. And was institutionalized when this took place. 

But I think the fact that both of these kids were on celexa (an anti depressant) should not be overlooked. It has been shown to increase suicidal thoughts and actions in teens and young adults. I was one of those. It wasn't this particular drug, but I think it's similar. I had never been suicidal in my life until a week after I started taking it when I was seventeen and I haven't been since. (I had a sense that it was the drug but couldn't directly point to it. You couldn't force me to take one again. They are poison for me. Im not sure they help anyone, but they are especially toxic to my chemistry ) 

When the doctor asked me why I attempted suicide, I could only say "I don't know". He got irritated with me but I really had no clue why I did that. And I didn't for years until I read an article about how many kids on antidepressants kill themselves. Nine times out of ten, they are not inherently sick, but are sensitive young people who are responding to a sick situation. My point is that antidepressants can really fuck with your head. 

Eta: also look at how many school shooters were on antidepressants when they murdered people. 

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Friday, August 18, 2017 - 8:24 am
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When things do work out, as I am optimistic they will do, I do think that in a good position, in a lot of cases things will just kind of sort out and it will not be obvious what relation the events have to law and order and karma etc.

Consider someone who, lets say, has very selfish behaviours. Some people might dislike this and have legitimate grievances, now lets say the person starts believing there is something wrong with them and starts acting even more selfishly because they have deflected responsibility onto the "illness".

If things worked out and this person gains resources and perhaps comes to the conclusion they had a nutritional deficiency and they are better now, and is able to reason and positively contribute to discussion etc. and is clearly not selfish like they previously were... Well what happens to the grievances?

Then the opposition between people that believed this person was being selfish and people that might have believed they have an incurable emotional disorder disappears. It doesn't any longer matter whether they were in fact being selfish or if they had a legitimate problem. The point is they are behaving differently now and there is no reason to dislike them, or to jail them or make their lives difficult in any way because the behaviour is gone!

An interesting idea. Clearly though if the behaviours are very bad it would likely not apply.

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