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Thought Experiment - shifting 10th house meaning
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teeceedee7
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Tuesday, June 30, 2020 - 4:55 am
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If there was a way to shift our values so that making it to the top of the hierarchical heap was not the name of the game – what else could 10th house speak to.  How can it be re-framed?

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Tuesday, June 30, 2020 - 9:23 am
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Everyone has a MC/10H cusp, it is the highest Angle point in a chart and represents our visible public image/reputation. (Its also half of the parental axle). It is the Angle that represents attention given by others associated with our reputation or public image. The more repute, the more public. Making it to the top is a personal quest with some, it is not a value or the name of the game for everyone, but everyone has a MC which is their Cusp of public reputation/image. There is no control over anyone’s opinion of our public reputation. Public opinion is supported by supporters for good or bad. Its just the way it is.

🌙

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Libra Noir, Warped by Wuthering Heights, teeceedee7, CrisLondon
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Buendia
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Tuesday, June 30, 2020 - 9:38 am
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I remember that you mentioned in another thread an aversion to the concept of leadership, but in terms of the tenth house, I don’t relate it to having authority or power over others.

It can mean that in the public realm or one’s career, but I think of it more as simply being one’s authentic self. In the Thema Mundi, Aries is at the top of the chart. When one is their authentic self, people tend to be inspired by that, but that isn’t the goal, just a passive consequence of being true and sincere.

Tenth house people (and others) can definitely abuse the influence they have over other’s if that’s their intention, or if they don’t realize their energy, but they will usually be seen, regardless, so the question is how does one want to be seen. I think of the word role model—teachers live in the ninth house; what kind of role model the teacher is seen in the tenth. Actions speak louder than than words and all that. I think that’s another element of the tenth being a “parent house.”

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Tuesday, June 30, 2020 - 9:46 am
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Perhaps by the fall or reformation of technology usage.

When people are held accountable in their communities & national/global contacts and not through the global lens that only sees a certain degree of said person, then one can act more honorably etc.

Also, realizing that we are all one can help, but paradoxically, that idea must be kept in balance when knowing that we are still separate because “it’s still your turn to wash the dishes” (Ram Dass), or do your chores etc. But basically remember that we engage with the world knowing that we are doing stuff for our larger, united self.

A cultural change is perhaps needed too.The way we view money coupled with the lack of available and shared resources further highlights the demi-god actors, CEOs and others who appear to be at the top because they “worked hard”.

I find some put too much emphasis on what doesn’t matter long-term, stuff that doesn’t bring stability and generational prosperity in a simple manner. Our priorities must change.

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Tuesday, June 30, 2020 - 10:02 am
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I don’t see hierarchy and trying to get to the top of anything as the problem. What’s wrong with meritocracy? Heirarchy is instantiated value. Get the value right and keep the heirarchy as free from corruption as you can.Leveling out heirarchy is extremely nihilistic and bad bad bad for people. 

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Tuesday, June 30, 2020 - 10:09 am
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Being retired really blows up the 10th house interpretations. I am in a 10th house annual protection year and is strange. Especially in a coronavirus year where there is Absolutely no ‘public’ life. My 10th is ruled by Libra and there is no social life happening at all.

Obviously I have to expand my understanding or interpretation of the 10th house. If I would say anything about my public experience thus far this year, it is all electronic. Zoom meetings with spiritual groups. Spending time on ElsaElsa. Reading/watching news electronically.  The best take might be this: thinking about my relationship (Libra/Venus) with the public (10th house).  Relationship with the Collective – hmmmm that feels like it’s getting closer.

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Tuesday, June 30, 2020 - 10:16 am
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A possible parable for 2021’s

Saturn-Uranus Square

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Tuesday, June 30, 2020 - 4:25 pm
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Theres an inner hierarchy. Personal mountains to climb. Triumphs over ego, fear, inner demons. “The fool battles others egos, the sage battles his own” type of thing. I have Sun/Pluto/Saturn in tenth. Im not “under” or “above” anything, it’s just about letting things go their right place. I see the chart as a kind of mandala, if that makes sense. 

Now, do I feel there’s been a kind of artificial hierarchy applied to society? – yes I do, and I think it’s harmful and disharmonious and unnatural. Not the fact that it’s a hierarchy but the fact that it’s not really essentially human. But I’m not sure that’s where you were going with this teeceedee. 

Some really good answers here! 

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Tuesday, June 30, 2020 - 5:19 pm
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I think the idea of heirarchy needs to be teased out. Humans need to value some things over other things. Achievement is based on that. If society tries to eliminate heirarchy it is getting rid of achievement. Do we want our doctors and engineers to develop within some kind of meritocracy imposed on them, yah we do. I want my surgeon and civil engineer to have the credentials. I want the bridges to stay up lol. It’s easy to see in STEM type fields but applicable to all. 

Corruption of heirarchy through gaming the systems is another subject entirely. Dealing with unfairness in accessing and achieving by getting rid of the heirarchies would be a disaster.

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Wednesday, July 1, 2020 - 11:57 am
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The answers here are so useful.  Also seeing the breadth of answers supports how we need diversity.  

“The myth of meritocracy” is a lens of critical thinking many are applying to critique the “work hard and you’ll achieve your dreams” way of thinking.

The degree to which our systems are tied to racism has to be figured in. 

I keep thinking that as we organize and develop  structure it is important to allow for mystery, for the random, for unknown factors.  Reminded of story of Hopi who deliberately put an error in the thing they are making. 

A lesson in Indigenous Eldership I have begun to learn is that the community identifies who has the knowledge the community needs. 

Thank you Libra Noir – the inner hierarchy – that may be my point to contemplate this week. 

I am grateful Buendia that you recall me.  It calls me to task to look at my thinking – the aversion I have to hero worship/ leadership thinking.  There are literary and feminist critiques of the monomyth of the single hero.  I like to take it all in.  

We each individually must realize our way.  I do struggle with the individual – community spectrum.   It is ok that I do.  Likely most do in some way.  Perhaps I create too strong a picture that I am anti/-authority, anti- hierarchy.

 I am appreciative of Dark Aquarian sensibility – Ram Dass was a great teacher.   It is the sense of our larger unified self that I seek. 

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Wednesday, July 1, 2020 - 1:01 pm
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What is the myth of meritocracy? What do you replace “work hard and you will achieve your dreams” with? 

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Wednesday, July 1, 2020 - 4:12 pm
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Im just going to share what came up for me reading this. What about larger, more Universal systems? What about a metaphysical pov? Going beyond society. There are greater powers than society, no? There’s karma- thats a Saturn theme. You get what you give. Are we just taxpayers or are we souls? Where’s the organic element here? 

There’s also a lot of empowerment in the tenth house. Isn’t there always some special beings who somehow transcend the given paradigm?

Honestly, I see many who are more concerned with what they are not receiving, and not thinking a ton about what they are contributing, even to their immediate environment. Again, to be completely honest, I think many know (somewhere in their psyche) that they aren’t contributing and are scared shitless that they’re gonna be left out of the tribes harvest. That’s the psychological impact of a kind of socialist view being taught in schools, etc, although the claim is that it’s the answer, not the problem. The socialist view being- you are just a number, you have no inherent worth and no individual essence. I see how it enslaves people, it’s twisted af. 

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Thursday, July 2, 2020 - 6:57 am
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Interesting questioning/exploration of the 10th house, teeceedee7

I still pretty much see the 10th in the traditional ways, some mentioned in this topic thread.

However I have integrated for some time ideas mentioned here such as inner authority and authenticity. My 5th house Sun rules my 10th so authenticity is important to me and a life lesson towards inner authority.

And after watching an amazing podcast on Radical Self-Care (don’t want to say more as this forum is Elsa’s work and business and it would be rude) I am slowly awakening to alternative views of what each natal house means to many communities for whom meritocracy is not as real as it is to some groups.

I think that meritocracy is largely a myth that only really applies to a few groups and groups with privileges. Authors like Robin Diangelo explain quite well why meritocracy in general is a myth for many people and how this illusion has been fed in such a way that the installation of this myth takes place in the mind and then can cause huge mental health concerns when one repeatedly experiences how unreal meritocracy can be (there’s a risk people then think they are not good enough if they work hard yet never reach their full potential.)

Working hard helps in general, of course, yet it doesn’t get one as far as everybody wishes as there are various glass ceilings and systematic racism all the way.

Meritocracy thus only works for some specific groups.

Being one’s authentic self can be greatly thwarted in society by racism (which becomes internalised growing up, creating internal barriers that run parallel with external barriers.)

Being one’s authentic self can also be thwarted by other intersectional realities of oppression in society (e.g. gender, gender identity, sexuality, ageism after a certain age, etc.) so self-realization (Maslow and other authors’ versions of such phenomenon) is not that easy, not matter how hard one works…

Let’s see…10th house themes could be seen linked to one’s place in one’s community or social group (or both) and how one can use one’s public profile or connections around them to support the community…

Resources from the public community?

Links to a parent or parental figure or tribal/ethnic strong and positive leadership archetypes (non-Eurocentric ones at times) of one’s heritage or one’s past that can serve as alternative authority models that can support public realms and development of inner authority…

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Thursday, July 2, 2020 - 7:00 am
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I’ll add ‘ageism before a certain age’ too regarding oppressive realities. 

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