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How important is confrontation?

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Leda
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I will admit I don't often confront people.  I don't fear confrontation, but I usually calculate that it's not in my best interest.  Usually I think it would just leave me exposed and do nothing to change the other person's behavior.  So if someone does little things that upset me, I tend to let them go, thinking that we all do hurtful things from time to time.  If someone is really being awful, eventually I distance myself from the person without an explanation.  I have Venus in Scorpio.  

I'm actually not sure this is a good thing and I'm thinking about changing my ways.  I am left still feeling resentful in the end.

How important do you think confrontation is?  Does it help you to get something off your chest?  Do you see it in your astrology?

 

 

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WoodenBowl
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I’m very very very confrontational. Learned it  from age zero up. I had to always confront dad against mom. They didn’t need a kid and woops there I was. The adult in the family. At age zero. 
I hate conflict. I address it, make amends and move forward. 
There are so many different confrontational situations. 
 I have Mars in Leo 6th house. 
I would jump into a train for my dog or your kid. I’d take a bullet for the kid found in a kidnapped situation. I get into that stuff. Because of my childhood. It’s all I knew. I always stood up for mom s money, her care, & safety. That’s surviving skills I know, but it made me aware. I always fought my dad. And I’m a girl. 

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Leda
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@woodenbowl

It seems like what you're doing is working for you, so maybe I should take a page from your book.  I think it's very admirable to fight for people who can't fight for themselves.

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WoodenBowl
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@leda

aww! Thank you. Don’t forget to fight for you as well. Childhood taught me to stand up for me. I hate fighting w/ppl, I’m peaceful but I don’t do bullies. I’ll fight one or die trying. I stand up for me too. I also learned that early. 

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Elsa
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I think it's smart to think twice before confronting people. But it sounds as if you're realizing that your MO could be tweaked.

"I tend to let them go, thinking that we all do hurtful things from time to time.  If someone is really being awful, eventually I distance myself from the person without an explanation."

This suggests you're forgiving but also afraid? Then you bolt which is a defense / avoidance.  If you continue in the pattern, all your relationships will end this way... all because you do not want to confront?

I don't know. This is a guess, based on what you wrote. 

If you also do the same thing, in all your interactions, it's usually a sign you should try something new.

This sounds saturn/neptune to me. Fear/Disappear.

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Leda
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@elsa

Yeah, that's all true.  Now that I think about it more, it might be because my Moon is in opposition to Saturn.  I'm not afraid to fight, but I AM afraid to let my feelings be known.  I'd rather keep them protected.

Then with Neptune on my Sun in Sagittarius, maybe it's easier to run away when I don't know what else to do...

It depends on the relationship, though.  With some people almost nothing gets left unsaid and I think it's really healthy.  I just feel like with most people I'll end up opening up for nothing.

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Elsa
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@leda I thought of some criteria that might help.

If the relationship is with someone you see infrequently (such as a once or twice a year inlaw), let it go.

If you have to deal with the person all the time (spouse, child, workmate), then try to work it out.

Notice I said, "work it out" not confront.

I know it's sickening but I have Libra and this is how we roll.

It's not a bad idea, trying to be even-handed when you venturing into new territory.

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Leda
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@elsa Thanks, that helps.  I think most people do not react well to being confronted, so it's probably better to have the attitude of trying to work to out.  Good point.

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Niki
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I'm like WoodenBowl, except I confronted both my parents because they were both abusive narcissists.  Because of my violent childhood training, I confront people a lot, especially when I witness strangers being abusive (i.e., to a cashier) or racist or even littering.   I'm Aries sun, with a 5-planet Taurus stellium, and Aquarius rising. Stubborn warrior triggered by injustice.

I often get away with my confrontations because I'm a woman, and I think abusive dudes are inclined to get more aggressive with another dude confronting him.  But I won't be surprised if one day I get seriously attacked and injured.  Then I might reconsider my targets or preparation.  I have no combat training and don't carry a weapon, so it's a risk.  In personal relationships, I'd much rather speak frankly, argue it out, then either come to consensus, agree to disagree, or say goodbye permanently.

My aunt was the opposite of me, and she died young.  Pisces Sun, Mercury, Venus, opposite Moon & Pluto, square Mars.  She kept everything bottled up inside.  She pretended to be cool, friendly, peaceful, and wise, but she was disingenuous, untrustworthy, selfish, opportunistic, and entitled.  She used people for money then ditched them.  She confessed that throughout her life, she always fantasized about killing her mother (my grandmother, who was a bit bourgeois and critical, but was my saviour from abusive parents).  I've never wanted to kill my parents, despite their abuse.  I expelled my frustrations by yelling and fighting with them, instead.  Now I just don't speak with them at all.

My aunt died of blood-bone cancer (multiple myeloma) at age 60.  Her mother lived to 100.  My aunt was physically healthy, privileged (medically, socially, genetically, and residentially), so her sudden cancer didn't make sense.  I suspect my aunt's unexpressed spiteful feelings might have contributed to her death by cancer.  I hate to 'blame the victim' like that, but the grim reaper operates in mysterious ways.

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WoodenBowl
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@niki

So wow. Thanks for this message/testimony. I relate so much. This is so interesting & I will study tonight. The Taurus stellium & Aries Sun! Wow. I’m jealous! Hahah! I’m a lot of water & air. But I did it. I had no choice. Could be my Mars placement, I have little fire, but my childhood fire was lit immediately- so it was my action planet. I’d died for my mom. My rage toward dad was intense. So there was amazing emotional force from within. Can water have rage and confront? Idk. 
But I confronted him nonstop, when he began his crap. I displayed constant & loyal confrontational body language- now looking back. I was so skinny but fearless when demanding he leave her alone or else. I was afraid of him too. But he never saw that side of me. Only my disdain of his behavior. 

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Niki
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@woodenbowl

It's so difficult to witness abuse by one parent against another.  Your situation was horrible, especially if you didn't have siblings or any other family member or friend to help you fight your dad.  Maybe your water influences helped you be so compassionate that you're willing to defend your mom at whatever cost.  Another person in that situation might have just left the whole situation permanently.

My mother claimed that when we were kids, my dad tried to stab her in the kitchen with a carving knife.  She said she screamed but my sister and I didn't come to her rescue, so she blamed us for not supporting her.  From my perspective, my parents were always yelling at each other, so if I was upstairs in my bedroom, it wouldn't have stood out as anything different from the usual fighting.  As a teenager, I would have just rolled my eyes and turned up my music.

Later, when I was 36 and still speaking with my mom, after my parents finally split up, and my mom claimed my dad raped her, I defended her.  She was very thankful because I was the only person who believed her and confronted my dad about it.  I yelled so long and loud on the phone to my dad that I almost lost my voice.  That was the last time I spoke with him.  (The estrangement from my mom is a whole other story!)

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WoodenBowl
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@niki

I’m really confused as how to see my elements chart, this has me curious...I think I have more water, but looking at my chart, I see lots of earth, air, little fire, how do we measure our elements?
does a house trump a planet?
if my Pluto is in 7th house in Virgo? Close to Uranus, How do I measure the elements? Does the degree matter? P is on my descendant. Does that change the element? 

 

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Leda
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@niki

I agree with you that we do sometimes express ourselves by getting ill, if there is no other way.  It's crossed my mind that this will happen to me!

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JoFrance
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We have similar aspects, Leda. I have my Mercury/Venus in Scorpio. My Moon is conjunct Saturn in Scorpio and I have a Sagittarius Sun. My first house is Libra, but I have Mars/Neptune there. I always like to keep the peace and hate fighting, so I let little things roll off. I pick my fights.

If I need to confront someone though, I'm right on it whether I want to or not. I just do it and I'll deal with the aftermath later. I'd rather take care of things now than carry the baggage that I didn't act. I can be brutally honest (Sagittarius) but my Mars in the 1st house is the great fighter. Neptune is my veil, but it also cringes when Mars gets loose.

You had asked in a post if a house position trumps a planet. It doesn't, but if you are missing an element in a chart, it can make up for the loss, somewhat, of that element. I have no Earth planets in my chart, but my Scorpio planets are in the 2nd house which is a fixed Earth house associated with Taurus in a natural chart. That placement of my planets really brings me down to Earth.

With elements, there really isn't a gold standard of perfection. Yeah, its nice to have a planet located in all of the elements for balance, but if you don't have that you can make up for it in other ways. Even through other people.

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Leda
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I think I didn't do a very good job of articulating my question, so I'm going to try again.

I think what I'm really looking for is a way to be less sad about things that have happened and continue to happen.  So I'm wondering, does it help you to tell someone how they have negatively affected you?  Or does it not matter?  Maybe you are able to move on and let it go without ever confronting the person.  I imagine people might be different in their answers to this and it might show in their charts.

Maybe "confrontation" isn't even the right word, because that sounds like an angry thing.  Underneath the anger is probably just sadness, in most cases.

 

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WoodenBowl
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@leda

A way to be less sad. I understand. I also have Venus conjunct Neptune in 8th H - Both square my Saturn Conjunct Moon in my 12th H- Both sextile my Pluto conjunct Uranus in the 7th H- Both sextile my Mercury 11th H & both square my Mars in Leo 6th H. Whew! Intense! 
From childhood- sadness has been a daily feeling, realizing I was born into a family with explosions from an angry dad  & life was walking daily on eggshells. & a mom that needed me to be gentle & helpful & compassionate. She was the victim. He was the bully. 
So, with me being Saturn Moon conjunct 12H, split Aquarius/Pisces, I hope I can help you with the sadness part. 
I naturally am a peacemaker depending on the person or situation. I’ve also learned the hard way that there ppl that don’t care at all about ppl At All.

  1. I just learned to pick my battles. Decide which relationship is worth the energy of expressing my hurt feelings or misunderstandings, etc. I’m both shy around people & also very nurturing around others. Given the energy they send. I’m empath. Shyness  stemming from dad, hating the negative mean aggressive persons, & nurturing coming from mom, defending, helping the underdog. Which is a mixture of my chart. Now that I’m learning Astrology, I understand my depression & nervousness around relationships bouncing over to rescuing & confidence in relationships. 
    It’s who I trust. If I’m helping someone, & they hurt me, I communicate really good & go from there. Those conflicts usually mend & we move forward. 
    The angry restless people get angry, get defensive, if I want to address something or work on the relationship, they attack more and I step away, and sadly realize not all situations will be smooth in the end. I won’t be a doormat, so I have burned bridges with some family or friends. I would also build a bridge for those who meet me in the middle and are easy to communicate with. I don’t do drama. I’m keenly level headed & intelligent. 
    I understand sadness is usually under others aggression &but I’m not their therapist & don’t have time or will be willing to be their mental punching bag while they blow steam. I’m a great mixture of the good & bad in confrontation, I’m easy to confront. I own my own shit & apologize & I know I’m human, not perfect & readily am available for adult conversation because I am a peace maker. Meditation & lots of yoga and water hiking skills help me think through people problems. Unless I witness someone mistreating a child or elderly person, then I step in wisely or not wisely lol, if I’m not grounded. 
    I hope this helps you. I’m around if you have any other questions. I hope I helped. 🧘‍♂️
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Leda
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Posted by: @woodenbowl

I’ve also learned the hard way that there ppl that don’t care at all about ppl At All.

  1. I just learned to pick my battles. Decide which relationship is worth the energy of expressing my hurt feelings or misunderstandings, etc. 

Yes, that helps.  Thanks.  This part especially resonates with me.  Moon-Saturn is such a difficult combination, I think.

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WoodenBowl
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@leda

Unfortunately, I have a very close Moon conjunct Saturn =12th house., 

I’ve lived it, I live it now , it’s heartbreaking. Exhausting. If you have this SM conjunct- then you know.
you mentioned the word sad. Figure out a way to not be SAD. Work it daily. Isn’t this your life ?
what can you control?

please don’t let the mean ppl or cold ppl run you off. 

what are you responsible for? 

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