Outdated Point Of View? Or Real Knowledge Suppressed?

sagittarius enid collins vintage purseI’m becoming more and more aware, the vast majority of people don’t see things the way I do.  They simply don’t believe what I believe.

For example, I was taught to avoid debt. Today, young people go into debt, tens of thousands of dollars, one hundred thousand dollars in some cases. They don’t even blink.

It’s pointless to say anything to them. People who think the way I do, are dying out, rapidly.  There’s so few of us, no one is going to listen to my lone voice. People travel in flocks…right over cliffs. It’s painful to watch.

“People think they need the government,” my husband, explained. “They need the government to tell them what to do, what to think, how to eat. They’ve got no idea what freedom is. They really think they should listen to the government and be guided by it…”

He’s quite right. Saturn in Sagittarius.  Defend your beliefs…or let the government define them.

Which direction are you going in?

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Outdated Point Of View? Or Real Knowledge Suppressed? — 45 Comments

  1. I’m with you on this one, glad my eldest son is listening to us still on debt, good friends and the need to study. Inner freedom as taught by the one Great Saviour, His teachings have all the answers. Saturn in Sag has me in hospital with youngest son – I’m using the time to develop and strengthen inner beliefs and philosophies. Saturn has restricted me to get wise fast and intensively (we’re in isolation unit but have Internet access) Thanks for your site and blog.

  2. I believe I see the world the way you see it Elsa.

    Honesty, integrity, hard work, making do with simple things in life and that if you do want something now, you’re going to have to pay the price later on.

    It seems short term has become de rigeur. Everybody has so many options, or at least the illusion of options. When everything goes wrong they look around for someone else to blame. But quite often they can just move onto a new situation, start afresh without any consequences until their character flaws repeat.

  3. I think if you’re not taught to take responsibility for your own decisions from a young age, within reason, making the transition into real adulthood is going to be extremely difficult. The combination of rampant helicopter parenting plus a brutal economy rigged to screw over working people as hard as possible every second is the perfect storm for shutting down and just saying I might as well be reckless and wild and crazy, being responsible isn’t even well rewarded any more in many cases.

    • Enige tijd geleden gaf ik in het Nederlands een reactie, was u toen de persoon die mij in dezelfde taal een antwoord gaf? Mogelijk vergis ik me totaal!

      • Dag, Dorien. Ja, ik ben de schuldige :). Ik ben een Amerikaanse. Ik spreek een klein beetje Nederlands. I visited your beautiful country two years ago, Amsterdam is a wonderful city.

        • Hallo! Wat leuk! Noem het niet de schuldige…..ik vond het zo bijzonder.
          Een Amerikaanse die zo goed Hollands spreekt. Hoe is dat zo gekomen. Amsterdam is een geweldige stad. Ik herinner het me nog in de hippie tijd
          ook. Toen was het helemaal buitengewoon!
          Bent u ook zo blij met deze blog van Elsa?

          • Dank u wel, Dorien. I wish I’d had a chance to see and experience Amsterdam during that time. Yes regarding the blog, ik vind het leuk.

            • Dank u voor uw antwoord. Weet u, de reden waarom Amsterdam toen vooral zo bijzonder was, is omdat het nog niet zo gevaarlijk was. Er sliepen mensen gewoon in het Vondelpark. Evengoed: wat fijn dat u zo genoten heeft van de stad!
              Mag ik u vragen: hoe komt het dat een Amerikaanse zo goed Nederlands spreekt en ook schrijft!?
              Elsa schrijft regelmatig precies dat wat me bezig houdt! Verbazingwekkend soms.

  4. Everything has been flipped upside down. Bad behavior is protected while good responsible behavior is punished or discouraged. People who are great at their jobs and show up every day on time are paid starvation wages by companies who think an employee requesting a salary that’s actually enough to live on is an outrage. I hope Saturn in Sag does something to change that disgusting injustice.

  5. Elsa, sometimes you write exactly what I am thinking about. How is that possible!It is astonishing. I appreciate it very much. It shows again that I am not alone.
    I HOPE very much when Pluto reach Aquarius that people become more authentic, but I am not sure. And I think: nowadays there are people who think for themselves.
    In my opinion is the best you can do is live it and keep your eyes open. And keep your faith! 🙂

  6. I was taught by both of my parents to avoid debt as they were scrupulous about paying bills on time. Although I realized the wisdom of their example, I didn’t follow it. Paying the price now big time with Saturn transiting my Sun.

  7. ScottishFold – agree with your comments about helicopter parenting and work. The 1990 Cap stelliums are particularly getting hammered by this.

    Dorien – good question as to whether Pluto in Aqua will see people be more authentic. It’ll be in its detriment but Aquarians can definitely be individuals who refuse to be influenced by others. But the shadow is rebelling or taking stances just to be different.

    Elsa – I don’t think it’s purely the Government’s fault. I’d say it’s all the marketing and consumerism trying to sell people happiness through pointless, unnecessary stuff. People need to learn to look inwards at what matters to them but instead they let TV, the media and celebs tell them what a successful life looks like. Meanwhile their friends and peer groups on Facebook are telling them about their wonderfully happy lives while editing out the misery. It’s like an arms race to misery which people are bringing on themselves because they’re scared to stand out, miss out or be alone.

    ***

    All in all, I’d say this is the cycle that’s been built up to with Pluto now in Capricorn. The shadow of Cap is bowing to public opinion and conformity. If you want to be authentic then you look to the IC and 4th house and build yourself from there so that by the time you reach the Cap/MC – you’re a genuine expert in your field and you’re doing your thing for the benefit of others, not just please them and be liked.

    • I didn’t say it was the government’s fault.

      People have free will. They do what they want to do, suffer the consequences or reap the rewards…which are all over the map.

      This post is actually tied to this: https://www.elsaelsa.com/astrology/venus-love-and-money/

      For example, some people will readily sell their soul for any number of things. Other people will not.

      People value certain things. Time, space, money, success, not being bored, family, whatever.. 🙂

      • I must have misinterpreted your final comment “Defend your beliefs…or let the government define them.” … fault was probably the wrong word for me to use but I think people allow themselves to be defined by corporations, their friends, TV, not just the Government.

        Absolutely agree it’s about values. Defining what matters and is important to a person i.e. what they value is the work that everybody should be doing when saturn transits their 2H.

        I have natal Gemini Saturn in the 2nd so I’ve had to build from the ground upwards with my values. I’ve always valued knowledge but, when I was younger it was also about money and achievement. As I’ve grown older and got hit by various transits I’ve found more balance to put love, relationships and connection in front of that.

        With my neptune in the 8th of Sag, I’ve always been willing to be accepting of other people’s values but also retained my freedom by never being a borrower!

        Now that transiting saturn has arrived in my 8H, I’ve finally begun to realise that when your values are different to other people you cannot have a close, intimate relationship together. You can still be friends or socially polite with them but you’re never going to agree deep down about your life direction because values underpin everything. That doesn’t make mine right or theirs wrong – just different.

  8. Blue Magoo, I do agree with you and Scottish fold as well. I have discussed this at length with my daughter. We lived without having 2 cars, a cell phone for everyone a tv and play station in every room in the house. designer clothing.People think these are necessities and they are not. All this stuff created the “need ” for that second income , Which causes more stress in the home, too many hours from the kids. too much fast food because parents are too tired to cook. Geez I get tired just typing this..LOl

  9. Suppressed! I’ve been reading about finances and trying to learn as much as I can. I’ve been terrible with money most of my life always spending everything I’d make. I’m totally embracing living below my means, saving and eventually investing. I just didn’t know and unfortunately I didn’t have this curiosity when younger. Slow and steady can flower future rewards.

  10. I see Blue Magoo and I think you are right. Aquarius can also bee eccentric and opinionated. Indeed just to do other things than other. Still I hope that the most of Aquarius will be in the light and people find awsome things to do together.I hope we will find good systems for older people, so that there “old days” become good and happy for them. I hope we find a kind of exchange system
    that is so good that we do not need so much money anymore. I hope we find a kind of traveling that does not need so much of earth-energy. And above all I hope we find a new way to treat each other. I don’t know if I want to use the word love here, which has such emotional charge. I more think of a attitude of respect for everything that lives on earch.

    I think I give myself a nice cup of coffee now, …….:–)

  11. It’s funny you bring this up. Because as Saturn in Scorpio showed us the magnitude of our debt, Saturn in Sag is showing us how much in terms of student loans. I have kids entering college soon and they’re eyeing all these expensive colleges with $50K/year price tags. Who has that kind of money, especially a young adult entering the workforce?? I’ve had to burst their bubble and explain that it isn’t worth it. We’re not rich. Invest in community college or state school with a far better ROI and then try for scholarships for your masters or find a company that can partially subsidize it. A piece of paper isn’t worth of a lifetime of debt! Our young people need to be smart about this ?

  12. We are in our freaking 40’s now, so no, not young people, but my Husband, I and our closest friends – all Pluto in Libra, mostly Uranus in Scorpio people – tend to be freaking Liberals. Not in the sense the word is now used in The US, because we tend to be very much against Big Government in regulatory sense, too.

    Also, absolutely allergic to debt. We grew up in the middle of one of the worst credit crunches after WWII. Remember when Iceland went practically bankrupt after 2008? This was happening in my country in the early 1990’s. We were literally hours away from IMF takeover of our economy in 1993. My Husband’s family home was foreclosed, and his Mom learnt their home, with her name on mortage, was to be sold by reading listed announcements.

    So, if American Youth is still going into personal debt lightly, the fact is, 2008 wasn’t that bad for many people. I suppose there are people in their early 20’s now lived through the same things my Husband and SIL did, and I’d say these people are not going into debt lightly. Sometimes, it may be necessarily to get education, but otherwise…

  13. Your “Independent” source of income affords you that luxury…when you are fired a d can’t find work you don’t have much choice but to “listen to the government”. When the Romans conquered a village the first thing they did was till the soil with salt so couldn’t grow own food and relied on them…the state…for food.

  14. When enough people lose their job…which right now is being shipped off to cheaper foreign soil…your customers will eventually not be able to splurge on luxuries like astrology reports and birth charts. You will then be on the government tit too… begging for basic resources like the rest of us. Nobody will care about your good credit either

    • You’re angry at me? You know me and what I’ll do in certain circumstances?

      Bizarre that you’d think this.

      I don’t appreciate the personal attack. One more and you’re done here.

    • Xavier, I do not Judge and in all modesty:
      In my early childhood I lost my parents and my brother.
      Years later I lost my home, my husband and my job.

      But I survive everything, I still got myself, you know.

      In all those years Astrolgy was a guidance for me to this day.

      I do not know Elsa for a long time, but in my opinion she writes so much of value!

      I wish you comfort and light!

    • You have a lot of nerve Xavier! If I were to respond to this I would be on a 2 hour rant that would first ask why you’re begging for basic resources and what bad decisions you’ve made over time that left you in such a position. Outside of ill health, I would be interested to hear what you have to say. Beyond that, back OFF! I am not in the mood right now to blast you into another orbit!

  15. My husband and I had debt when we were young, house, car etc. 20 years ago we paid all our debt off. We live within our means and we live comfortably. I need and want less each passing year. We budget and save for large expenses; we have slowly replaced windows with energy efficient ones, new flooring, new appliances, new water saving toilets and an on demand water heater. (our home is 44 years old) Last summer we replaced a falling down deck. When we die our kids will own it all outright and have no bills to pay off for us. Our adult children (in their 40s) live within their means as well.

  16. I found my old drivers license from 2013 lol. I remember I was “free”. More than I am now. I did my own thing. I took drugs that I liked, not what the internet says are acceptable. I dont know about the government, but I know the internet information controls a lot of things. I guess they are related.. I dont know. I had to get clean eventually, I went to the hospital. They baker acted me. Fine, I was on heroin but not nodding, or anything. The nurse said to me, we found some substances in your urine.

    I dont understand why they didnt say, We found this and this in your urine.

    I am on disability. But I have a job. I dont want to be on disability, but I am scared to just up and give up my check. Had I not had a check this whole time(since my hospital heroin visit) would I have gotten a job?

    I cant know what to do. If I found out, government daddy would leave me.

    I guess it boils down to, do i care?

    I need a reason, i need to understand to care.

    I have a job, a retail job. I’m sure I could do more. I was doing more without the check. But it’s like..

    It’s like obesity. Im not obese, or overweight, but I can imagine how hard it must be not to eat, when there is food,.

    So ultimately for me.,

    Accepting that check is like a compulsion. I use it for my car payment, now.

    At least I’m not in debt?

    but I’m SLUGGISH. I have zero motivation to go out and get a job that pays more than $9 an hour like my current one. Which is a really easy job that I love.

    I think I’m finally sort of back on my feet. But I just generally feel like I should be doing better at this point in life. I dont want to be old and in the system. I really dont. I want to die happy.

  17. I was on that branch some years ago. The bank took my visa and Suddenly I had a debt – the first time in life – I had to pay back. That was… Sobering. Or – not sovering enough apparently, because some years that debt was doubled.

    BUT: When I got a wage refurbishment from an earlier position – big enough to cover my debt and more even – I paid all my loans back. And I have never had more than $500 in debt ever since. Because – well, sometimes life comes by and you need some extra credits untill you catch up paywise.

    Still, I hope I will never use money as a substitute for love again.

  18. We talk about how the millennial generation doesn’t buy houses or cars, and doesnt get married or have kids all the time on here. We are TERRIFIED of debt. We DON’T go out splurging and not caring. The problem is our entire lives we were brainwashed into thinking you HAD to go to college, a good one, not a community one, or you would end up broke and living in a gutter. Luckily the generation after us, kids your son’s age, have seen the results of that and a lot of them have learned from our mistakes. It’s not a frivolous thing. We fucked up when we were 17 and 18yrs old because we trusted our elders, and now we’ll be paying for it for decades. On top of that it’s estimated that in the US we’ll be inheriting $30 TRILLION in debt, plus the amount of Planetary debt we’ll inherit is indescribable. Anyways my generation values things like humanity and the Earth 🙂 We want everyone to have access to healthcare, education, and the pursuit of happiness. Which the baby boomers also seemed to care about at one time but then I guess the 70s ended and they forgot.

    • No, my son is following you over the cliff, Nymzie. I can only shake my head because you know he’s been educated. His elder, told him not to do it and provided him a path to a solid college education (engineering) with no debt. He decided…no, I’m going to do this other thing and borrow $80K.

  19. I’m not in debt. Heck, I don’t even have a credit card, let alone multiple ones like some people do. I like to spend money I have actually earned. I think the debt epidemic all comes down to people’s greed. For some folks it’s never enough, they can have everything they need and they will always want more and more. It’s almost like an addiction. Well, not to me, I’m 25 y/o and I enjoy living the debt free life. ??

  20. Funny that you mentioned debt. The Millenials are Pluto in Scorpio (other people’s money/resources).

    And the Pluto in Sagittarius kids are probably going to see ugly debt with colleges (Sagittarius).

  21. Due to a bad decision on my part to continually take back my son’s father, I was left with $25,000 of debt 18 months ago. My girlfriend was in the same predicament. She chose to claim bankruptcy. I worked my ass off and I only have $4,000 left to pay. My credit rating is 817. My credit rating has always been good and there was no way in hell I was going to let my bad decision affect it. My father immigrated from Italy, had no high school diploma, and worked three jobs. He would have kicked my butt if I claimed bankruptcy. He said you made the debt you pay the debt. I did this all on my own while raising my son by myself. It sucks but it can be done. My girlfriend, on the other hand, went on a spending spree before her bankruptcy took place and I have cut ties with her because I was so disgusted. Also after 25 years at Eastman Kodak company, I was laid off. I’ve had to reinvent myself career-wise over six times and I will be 56 on September 25th. Believe me it gets more difficult as you are older because no one wants to hire you. It’s all about your outlook. And I have no clue where my Saturn is because I am dictating this in between sets at the gym. It’s all in your mindset.

  22. If debt includes paying mortgage on a house, I wonder how many people are able to buy a home without credit???
    But I suppose the reply to that question is: if you don’t have money, don’t buy a house (or a car, or whatever).
    As for listening to government, yeez! Who wants to do that? But some people have little choice (I’m thinking of life accidents) and need to accept help from the State.
    People who want to avoid all those systems must be courageous, intelligent, and perhaps have ressources (financial or personal or both). I have the idea that this is not as common as it seems!!!!! 🙂

  23. “The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money” Margaret Thatcher.

    If you put the government in charge of the Sahara desert, in five years they’d be out of sand 😉

  24. The other reason I brought up the government, is they offer your 17 year old child a loan…allowing a teenager to go deeply into debt, before they have the life experience to know what they’re doing.

    They don’t just allow this, they promote it. Next thing you know, your child is drafted, slave to the government for X number of years, no matter what. Like a salesman doesn’t know what to tell a child to make them sign. They start hard selling when they’re young teenagers. All these lies.

  25. I like the convenience of public utilities, ie electricity, water, roads. I suppose I could live without it but it would be inconvenient. We are systematically entwined on the grid of the material world. I don’t mind contributing tax dollars to keep all that going. And we do need some regulations, like which side of the road to drive down and such. And as a woman I like the enforcement that I am a person with rights as well as my male counterparts. And then of course, there is the environmental balance which needs to be managed. Without management of our natural resources earth will not be able to support human life. I think the frustration is the government officials who sell out and grant special privilege. The government ideally should promote a balanced scenario that works for all inhabitants. And these credit card kids? I don’t know them. You must live upper echelon? The kids were not immune to the economic crash. It changed the illusion of endless stuff for the kids I know. I just love the small home movement.

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