Can You Identify A Liar By Their Natal Chart?

Vintage zodiac trivetI was looking at a situation for client, in regards to man. I told her, while it was possible the man was lying to her, I didn’t think it was probable.

“Let’s just say, this is not the chart of someone who is routinely deceptive…”

Anyone can lie, of course. But I think it’s easier to identify an honest person by their chart then it is to peg a liar.

What aspects or placements do you feel suggest that a person might have a low standard when it comes to being truthful?

Related Post


Comments

Can You Identify A Liar By Their Natal Chart? — 64 Comments

  1. Gemini. It’s not that they are liars, per se, they just see reality differently than others.
    Sagittarians like to tell stories, and embellish facts.
    Pisces dives deep to escape interrogations.

  2. A fallen Mercury in Pisces doesn’t always point to a liar. And it’s a bit ridiculous to ascribe lying to an entire sign like Gemini, although a stellium does suggest someone so fast on his feet that he or she doesn’t care what they need to say to achieve an end. From what I’ve seen Lilith conjunct Mercury is a signature liar (and a careful, beloved one – our current Big O has the conjunction on top of a minor fixed star – WHEW!)

    • One of the Mercury square Neptune people I named in a post below has a T-Square consisting of Pisces Mercury/Moon square Sadgittarius Neptune AND opposing Virgo (Asteroid) Lilith conjunct a retrograde Saturn. In this case, the combination has produced a selfserving brick of Francesco Schettino – who, as I think I recall, has a Mercury/Neptune aspect too – proportions.

      • That is a complex t squared chart for Obama’s. Juipter Neptune and Sun it is the moon that came up empty promises of leaderships balance for recent hit and run issues

    • I’m with Mercury in Pisces, it’s not so much lying (they don’t see themselves as lying) but their view of the facts is kind of embellished to suit their needs, it’s like facts elude them. Took me forever to understand that.

      • I have mercury in Sag and I’m not a liar. If anything I blurt out too much truth at any given time. Looking ridiculous is a usual for me!!

        • I agree, I’m Mercury in Pisces with Neptune in Scorpio rising. I’m not a liar either but I am denitely spot one! My brother and stepbrother are 2 weeks apart natally both Gemini. One is basically a bigamist and both are extremely clever with their taxes. I agree with the Pisces / Gemini / Sag it forgetting The Scorpionic tendency to cover tracks. Look at Prince Charles TV denial of his longstanding affair with Camilla back in the day. I you can’t point to one sign of aspect but it can indicate and that’s all. That’s my honest opinion!

      • I’d say Neptune, for a lot of reasons. They hold back the truth so they don’t hurt you. Or they lie to protect their loved ones. Aquarius/ Uranus is also one that comes to mind. A bad 12th house.

  3. I think when we are dealing with any kind of deception or things that do not have truth we have a lot of things happening Pluto Neptune,Saturn in affliction where ever there is a need that is be important, or to get back to too always win, or have control, two worlds exist….the desperate or need too win, and the disregard for moral karmetic needs then we have a criminal element….other wise small infractions a crack pot or petty thief….while in judgment, I cant say Gemini is a sign for a person who is a big story teller that has John Dillinger issues…he was born on June 20th, but his is a complex criminal chart…..

    • I am suspicious of many Geminis as well because of very limited personal experience (for better or worse), but as with all signs, every sign has its shadow. Gemini is “two faced,” which means they are versatile and broadly talented when they are strong and full of Light, or that they hide behind charm while being real shits in private when living out their shadow. I mean, really, ANYone is capable of that kind of nonsense, but I have been so totally flummoxed by Geminis, the pattern is hard to ignore for me. Mostly that they decide which reality they live in and go with it, so they aren’t “intentionally” telling an untruth (because they believe it). So I don’t think they’d consider it a lie anymore than any of us consider our own self-delusions to be lies. But it comes across as duplicitous to outsiders, I think. I find lying to others as an outward expression of dishonesty to oneself. So maybe a Mercury that straddles 12H/1H?

  4. Could jupiter square neptune be a clue for a liar? I don’t believe the Gemini thing , believe it or not, my family used to get mad at me for not being able to tell white lies on the phone to family members when they called and asked for my busy mom. And I have about six signs in Gemini. I don’t believe that hogwash!

  5. I think people with a lot of planets in air signs (particularly if it includes Mercury) are probably the best at lying but an affliction that give the desire to lie is required along with it.

  6. I would suspect a heavy 12H, depending on signs and aspects of course. The 12H folks I know tend to at least live in self-delusion much of the time, and as a result, have few qualms about being deceitful in other arenas, when it’s convenient.

  7. I know most of you are generalizing but I have Mercury square Neptune and a grand air trine. I am many things but I am not a liar. I’m honest to a motherfucking fault.

    • I should specify I know four Mercury square Neptune people through work and projects. And they are either Leo Mercury square Scorpio Neptune or Virgo/Pisces Mercury square Sadgittarius Neptune. One of them, in fact, is very honest too, so I’m not saying everybody with this signature is liar.

      But I’ve noticed there’s always some kind of confusion regarding Mercury square Neptune person’s view on how they are contributing at working, intellectual environment. This particular person is very proud of the fact she “always tells it how it is” (Mars is involved, after all!), when it practically has broken a community I learned to know her through. I tried to fix the damage for years, stop people just walking out of the project we were both involved at, then just gave up.

      And oh yes, I have Neptune square Ascendant, and just dodge the Neptune square Mercury. But in my case, this being about Ascendant, I’m painfully aware people see whatever they want to see in me.

  8. I think Neptune aspecting the 3rd house (thoughts/communication) possibly? Or, when you look at the synastry between you two, something (again) with Neptune?

  9. Great question and complex. So many different kinds of lies.

    Has anyone known a pathological liar, the kind they talked about on Oprah who has multiple ‘wives’ in different cities, and the women aren’t aware of each other? That would be a type of chart to study.

    A lie is an interaction. Some combinations of types may attract this dynamic, but it could also depend on the health of the person at the ime.

  10. Hi Elsa

    I would say stressful aspects involving neptune/mercury. The persons involved would probably just define it as fantasy .. but never as lies …
    Best regards
    Eva

  11. It’s hard because I feel there is a question around “what is the truth?”

    Obviously saying you were not somewhere when you were is a factual untruth but there are shades within communications that may feel like absolute truth to one person and a lie to another.

    Not generalising but I’ve found Libran energy can be deliberately vague or fluff the truth to avoid, head in the sand type thing or just to keep things pleasant…it’s tough cause it’s also a very fair energy too! They are keepers of justice and balance and mediation!

    Or perhaps although I have Mars in Libra, my Cancerian Sun/Merc just filters it that way!

  12. Mars square Neptune and Jupiter square Mercury. And I think that he believes telling the truth. Escaping. While being suspicious, not trusting anybody crossing his way.

  13. I’ll be as prudent as I can, for I do not wish to offend anybody. A lot of Pisces in the chart, or Pisces on the luminaries, like the Sun and Moon, can suggest a person who would not be as forthcoming as a foot and mouth diseased Sadge. That’s a joke. Kind of. Also, if Neptune is involved (because it rules Pisces), especially in aspect to some of the angles: ASC, MH, DSC, IC – there could be a propensity for stretching the truth or being so far out in a fantasy world, that what’s true to them, may not be the actual truth to everyone else. That also includes harsher aspects to Neptune and any of the planets, including the Sun and the Moon. I, personally, have Neptune square Jupiter, and am prone to exaggeration. It’s not premeditated, by any stretch. But it just comes out that way. So am speaking from experience. Luckily, it’s always harmless and/or funny. That’s probably because Jupiter is involved. If it were Neptune square Pluto, dot, dot, dot, I think we’d be getting into some very creepy territory. But, I can’t generalize. I feel there are all different types of lies. Small ones and big ones. Some that are harmless and some that can destroy another’s life. Plus, I can’t single out an aspect in a chart to portray let’s say a pathological liar. That would have to be an aspect pattern involving some major players, like the outer planets, in a cardinal, t-, or grand square. But I have done charts for some who really were professional liars and made a living from their lies. From lawsuits and the like. This one guy am thinking of, who is a huge pathological liar, was a Cancer, though. Go figure.

  14. I also can’t pin down what I think a liar would look like astrologically. I know Mercury-Neptune folks who don’t think of themselves as liars but they make untrue statements (such as promising they’ll do something) just to get you off their back or to not have to deal with you or to get something they want from you at that particular moment. Then, when you expect them to do what they said they would do, they can’t believe you would actually hold them to their word. And then someone mentioned Moon in Gemini and I checked out all the people I know who have Moon in Gemini and I do have to say that there may be some truth to that because all the Moon in Gemini people I have known have some major deception in their character, almost every one of them. Then there are the people who suffer from serious pathological lying — lying on a scale where the stories are embellished and involved and detailed. I had a friend who was a classic pathological liar — she made herself the hero of her factitious situations — but I just don’t see anything in her chart that jumps out at me as being a lying type of aspect. If anyone wants to look at her birth data, we’ll call her J.L. and its September 14, 1951, New York, NY, at 4:30 AM. Her lies were doozies and she could never keep friends for long because the lies got worse and worse and grander and grander the longer you knew her. It got to the point where you didn’t know what was the truth and what was the lie. Another reason why I think we’re all having trouble pinpointing what a “liar” would look like astrologically is because it probably is something much greater than this-or-that aspect or sign. The lying person has to exist in the bigger picture of the chart, so I would think it has to do with a whole pattern that shows up in the person’s chart, rather than just, oh, he has this planet square that planet, etc.

  15. My Pisces husband has Mercury square Neptune. After 18 years I don’t think I am going to follow him around like he is a heinous liar. I think he is in a world of his own sometimes and I don’t think he sees himself clearly but I don’t know him to be a liar (and I sleep with one eye opened)

    My (30 year old) son has a Gemini Stellium and he gets pretty worked up and is a non stop gossip. In fact he rarely shuts up and we that know him the best tell him little (nothing we want kept secret) but I don’t think he runs around and lies all the time. In fact I think he is compelled to be brutally honest and it gets on my nerves…I tell him all the time to find some boundaries and sensor himself. I just asked him a month ago who died and left him the person in charge of bluntly telling someone something he thinks they should hear. I have been telling him he gives too much away and to shut the hell up for 28 years!!

    If being deceptive is not telling anything…then I guess I am the biggest liar on earth. I think everything is no ones business. And I don’t give a lot away…(well I do speak openly here under the name ‘soup’) in everyday life…no…you’ll get very little. (5 planets in Scorpio) I don’t think that makes me a liar, I think things are not a persons business. No one should be probing me for information about my personal life. Why do they need to know? I tell a select few…I see no reason for every Joe walking the street to know my life story…. I also don’t like it when people I don’t know very well tell me their personal stuff….ewwwww

    We are also greatly influenced by our upbringing. If mom and dad are openly lying about everything and a child sees this and accepts this as the norm they are probably not going to be much better….

    https://www.elsaelsa.com/astrology/lies-and-liars-moon-square-neptune/

    • you sound at times like my mother, she has a scorpio stellium, her advise to all of us is it’s no one’s business. if you’re in a court of law, or for a police investigation or doing your ID passport, your spouse, loved ones, then you tell the truth (i know sometimes many of us tell white lies like, your dress is nice even though it’s not) lol that doesn’t make a bad person. anyway i think it’s very plutonic where you have to keep your distance because people out there will betray you or put you down or judge you ect.

  16. Uhh… Barack Hussein Obama, Sun/Mercury square Neptune. Bob Dylan, once called “the master of misdirection”: Mercury square Neptune. Lots of examples from famous spies

    • Thank you, Elsa. I got tons of such stuff. Just a few more on Mercury square Neptune. Notorious spy Aldrich Ames caused many deaths. Once told an astonished teen date “..never let anyone know what you’re thinking. Exact aspect. A few more: Jonathan Pollard, American spy for Israel, now in jail for life. Julius Rosenberg of atomic secrets notoriety. Anthony Blunt, with more aspects, co-conspirator with Kim Philby, Britain’s legendary spy. George Blake, British spy. Wide aspect. Thank you.

  17. Sun in late Gem, island with Mercury in early Cancer. Moon square Neptune. Venus, Mars and Jupiter inconjunct Neptune.

    I can only say “this is a pathological liar” because I’ve known them for 20 years.

    My brother has a mutable t square with Mercury, Venus, Mars and Neptune.

    If I saw a chart with a lot of hard Neptune aspects, I wouldn’t automatically assume liar. I would think very possibly self-deluded.

  18. I just read something on the pathological liar’s FB, and I can’t stop laughing.

    They want to “put this lying ass in their place”. Says the same idiot who tossed around false claims of abuse, hate, and homophobia…and also stole hundreds, if not thousands, of $$$ from family.

    This person lives in fantasy land and justifies everything they’ve done in their petty warped mind. There’s just no Saturning with this one, so…most of us walked away. Got much better things to do.

  19. No, because everyone can lie, and everyone can learn to be good at it! It’s in all humans nature!

    We have discussed something similar on lindaland forum, about libras and lying. It seems Virgo-Libra influences can make one good at lying. Indeed, I had childhood friend, libra and virgo stelliums. A true mythoman. She was a compulsive lier and was in need of a therapist. Her mother saw that just as a “she has a good fantasy” kind of thing.

    Pluto and Neptune. Pluto is amazing at manipulating people to do or believe as they say. I know it, as I have myself used it many times, I’m not proud of it but yeah, thats the truth. Strong Pluto influences helps one to observe a person and with time know what makes that person tick. One can after that “costumize” a lie or half truth in a way that the person will accept it. Neptune, has great fantasy.

    As a plutonian, I have lied to love interests, sometimes. Just to “transform” their way of seing me. It was a way to “controll” their view of me. Typical Pluto. Very dangerous in the hand of for ex politicians!

    Other then that, no I don’t lie and I really really dislike lying, I feel fake and ashamed if I have to lie about something. Since I have Pluto oppo Mercury and Sun, I’m a lie detector myself and can sense stuff like that instantly.

  20. These are all subjective answers, naturally. Personally I don’t believe there is any particular sign, configuration or aspect pointing to deceitful behavior.
    I think it’s free will.

  21. From my personal experience, I’d shout “Moon in Pisces”.

    A very, very Neptunian Moon… It’s my father moon, so I know…

    By the way, I have a natural dislike against lying, despite more than a few Neptunian factors in my chart, which are (unsurprisingly) challenged by Saturn in Virgo.

    However, a newly progressed Sun in Gemini will ask you all folks:

    What is lying?

    And

    Isn’t lying sometimes necessary to get through with life?

    It’s kind of philosophical… but think about it…

    And what about the white lies…? The truths we withhold from others…? What about being secretive and not fully open…? (Scorpionic attitudes some of these…? )

    I don’t know…

    All I can say is this: I have been through a lot, and when it comes to surviving, you may discover you possess some, otherwise, nasty characteristics, which you may have to access, even though you never intended to…

    When it comes to surviving, don’t have any doubts: you will do anything it takes.

  22. Planets in Aquarius seems to be another telltale…When you are purportedly working for all humanity, lies are the norm apparently…

  23. Low-Librans can fib like no other … to keep the peace or prevent hurt feelings, you understand. Low-Leos are also known to embellish, to puff themselves up. Low-Capricorns will lie to undermine you in business, steal your money. The more insidious, take you down the rabbit hole type, liars often have a Merc-Neptune tight orb square Jupiter (the ultimate inflater), 1st/3rd/7th H Pisces. Natal asteroid Lie is important to evaluate, along with Pluto (sexual misconduct cover-ups) in detriment. Of course, enlightened, self-aware people will be able to choose wisely and avoid harming themselves and others.

  24. I failed to mention that, I believe it worthwhile to check out a person’s natal placement of asteroid Achilles. See if there is any shonky shizz going on there. Lol.

  25. Had almost completely forgotten this: It is Orcus’ task to chase oath breakers. So in the individual chart he decides about truthfulness and willingness to lie, so the position of Orcus in the natal chart has to be examined.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *