About The Shooting Incident… And Some Fact Of This (My) Life

People read about my son getting shot with a BB gun last night.. The comments were passionate and the opinions diverse, ranging from “SUE THEM”, the “boys will be boys”.

I consider this an illustration of the Saturn opposition to Uranus in the sky in that there are shocking difference (Uranus) around what the reality of this situation is along with what “the right thing to do” (Saturn) would be.

Here is the real reality of my situation which also illustrates the projection (the opposition) going on here and I don’t mean to piss anyone off. My point is show how difficult these problems are to solve and how truly DIVERSE people’s lives and dispositions are. On that note – this is reality:

The kid was Hispanic and odds are overwhelming his parents don’t speak English. Even if they do, they are very likely to pretend they do not for a long list of reasons I can only guess at.

Most innocuous, they are in the country illegally (also highly likely) and just don’t want trouble and/or they are scared. Even if you could sue – sue for what? There are no assets. Even if there ARE assets there are no assets (keep reading).

Considering the kid is walking around with what is essentially a concealed weapon (he had it tucked in his pants under his shirt) it is a possibility (not so remote) that his parents / people are involved in something (drugs) as this has been modeled.

If you come around causing problems / threatening their game, you are going to be visited by some thugs. It is essentially like taking on the Mafia and before you do something like that… well you better be prepared to die.

Now if you think this is a wild tale… then you think it is a wild tale however, it is not a wild tale.

It is a grave error to assume other people are like you because they are not. People have different standards, priorities and definitions of what is reasonable as the comments on the blog illustrate brilliantly.

One more thing: The last time I called the police to report a crime, they refused. They apparently did not want to do the paperwork but it was desperately important to me they file a report so I begged.

I mean I begged these two cops to report this crime… tears running down my face, I pleaded while they tried various ways of manipulating me into NOT reporting this crime / causing them to do paperwork.

I did not / would not take no for an answer as I had been instructed by another authority figure to GET A POLICE REPORT so I continued to plead and finally the police relented.

The filled out this paper (supposedly), making mocking comments and then THREW a business card at me with a fake police report number on it and left me there with my tear stained face.

Do you understand? I am a citizen and I was not allowed to report a crime and if I call the police up and complain, what do you think is going to happen to me in this city, hmm? Think I might get myself some speeding tickets?

If you don’t, you’re naive.

More Saturn (police) Uranus (shock), eh? See this guy – this drug lord, Joaquin Guzman? He didn’t make the Forbes richest list by letting people interfere with his business.

So now… knowing this, what are you going to do about this situation?

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About The Shooting Incident… And Some Fact Of This (My) Life — 57 Comments

  1. I am really sorry that your child was hurt in this way. I feel really sad about it. I’m familiar with the fact that police are often useless in certain situations. That I don’t find shocking at all.
    That kid would never be welcome in my home again. I know that this doesn’t mean Vid is always safe from this kid’s (obviously) cavalier way with a BB gun, but perhaps it is something.

  2. I feel sad about it too! Filing a police report doesn’t sound ideal if the police aren’t on your side (to say the least of it), but it makes me sad because this kid, illegal parents or no, is part of our society and deserves to be and if the community doesn’t do something to tell him that’s unacceptable, well, then what? Columbine? What?

  3. Jessica, I didn’t say I was not going to say something to this kid but fact is I don’t know who he is and IF I will ever see him again in my life.

    My guess is Quirky knows where he lives but if I push him for information (which I probably will), I will not be surprised if he goes into “protect” mode and claims he’s got no idea…

    These kids are living in various (precarious) circumstances and have been instructed by their parents how/what to do when certain circumstances come up.

  4. And I should add, Quirky has a dual loyalty. He is Vid’s best friend – they spend on average 6-8 hours a day together but he has connections to this other community.

    It has been readily apparent to the soldier and I for 2 years, Quirk is going to go one way or the other. He will align himself with my son or he will wind up in a gang… a criminal.

    He was shocked yesterday – SHOCKED from what I heard from my son but this kid is by no means made a decision around his loyalty because think about it. His parents have told him to keep his mouth shut, I am sure.

    So (perhaps) you see the situation here. These boys are growing up in the jungle, learning and becoming men and it’s dangerous out there.

  5. I’m sorry the situation’s that way. In a better world you could talk to the kids parents and they’d make sure he never pointed a loaded gun at anyone in play again, but it’s not really that way is it?
    Maybe he learned something anyway. My thoughts are with you.

  6. I know for a fact that Elsa’s situation is mirrored 100fold in neighborhoods across the country. It’s so frustrating, like the wild west. My wish for you is that you had a cop-friend. And my wish for all little boys is that they had cop-friends. There are so many amazing men who serve as police officers and great mentors to boys-who-grow-up-too-fast. You got the rotten apples who treated you with disdain Elsa and that sucks. Thank God the soldier is around.

  7. In fact I was going to write about this in Astrology For Smart People back in February:

    https://www.elsaelsa.com/astrology/2009/02/12/astrology-for-smart-people-regarding-those-saturn-figures-you-meet-during-saturn-transits-the-advanced-course/

    I gave up because it’s just too hard to communicate. I mean, it’s just too brutal / too much of a fight to put information out here in this climate. I mean, I’ll trudge up a hill but there are just too many hills and with so many people firing on me all the time… well I just do the best I can I guess.

    I work about 16 hours a day and it’s still a drop in the bucket. I mean, no matter what I do and put out here, it’s always the tip of the iceberg of what could be put out there and this is just irresolvable as far as I can see.

  8. My intention is not to derail the discussion…but I feel that policing is going to become a HUGE issue with Pluto in Capricorn.

    Dear Kashmiri’s City:
    Hiring a bunch of rent-a-cops (aka private security) will not solve your problems!!!

  9. Yes, I have talked with people who live in dire circumstances and who’ve been treated poorly by some half-cocked cops and what adds to their frustration, is that they are BLAMED for mistrusting police. Ugh.

  10. “but I feel that policing is going to become a HUGE issue with Pluto in Capricorn. ”

    have lots to say on the topic but have pretty much convinced myself I’d be well advised to keep my mouth shut. I am contemplating all this DEEPLY at the moment.

  11. Put it in writing. Write to the police chief and explain your concerns. Stay calm and don’t cry. If you can’t remain unemotional, keep your communication in writing.
    I live in a rural area where the police routinely mocked and ignored women. Don’t let them dissuade you from reporting this incident. I had a client whose ex-husband took their son and hid him from her for years. She wrote to her congressman, she went to the local police, and she contacted the FBI. No one helped her. She hired me to file a custody case. We went together to file a police report. When the officer found out that the child had been missing for years, he said in a sarcastic voice, “What has she being doing for five years?” I told him that she had been getting the type of attitude that he was giving her and not much help from law enforcement. To give him credit, the officer was embarass. He got on the computer and located the ex-husband in another state. It took less than ten minutes.

  12. I can understand your frustration since this just happened to you. I also understand your frustration since that just happened with the police. I had a wake-up call with the cops years ago–that’s another story–but then I had a really good experience with some good cops just last Fall. Don’t let that one incident discourage you, Elsa. If you don’t feel the parents are approachable and especially if you’re scared and they are illegal immigrants… I would say this is the BEST time to go to the police!

    Hey I have an idea–take the soldier with you to the other guy’s house. He has no problem punching people! LOL (j/k) AT least he could be very, um, intimidating. ๐Ÿ™‚

  13. hm.
    an incident last year was the first time i ever personally felt a policeman treated me with disrespect… friends of mine have different stories, though…

  14. I understand it’s hard. I also understand criminals and mafia-types. I do whatever I can to avoid these types of people. I have refused court interpreting jobs myself.

    So there is the justice aspect of it for Vid. It makes me think of the Furies in mythology. There’s the social “obligation” (that nobody wants, understandably)to not let violence go unpunished. And there is the overarching climate of being held hostage by the parents illegal status, possible drug connections, potential retaliation, and the police indifference.

    State police and Homeland Security?

  15. “It is a grave error to assume other people are like you because they are not. People have different standards, priorities and definitions of what is reasonable as the comments on the blog illustrate brilliantly.”

    That is so true. I think most people forget this, or didn’t know it in the first place. But it’s so important to understand. Otherwise the world makes no sense at all.

  16. and i have a number of students i’m pretty sure are in similar spots. i sometimes feel like a drop in the bucket, myself. trying to expose them to a different way of relating to other people… the culture of violence is frightening.

  17. Yeah, by no means did I think you were not going to take a stand with whatever the appropriate thing to do is. I’m only frustrated with the universe on this issue. I realize all our kids need to learn how to navigate this society and protect themselves while growing up, but it’s so scary when other *kids* are the problem! I’ve had run-ins with police and the justice system that make me cynical, too.

  18. If Quirk knows the other kid or if the other kid comes around again. I’d just let it be known (perhaps through Quirk) that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable to you and Vid won’t be allowed to hang out with kids who act that way.

  19. Elsa, I know this is not a tall tale. It is like this here, different but the same.

    I am furious for Vid and for you, but I totally get it about keeping your mouth shut.
    Some monsters are too big and not necessary to my final goal, so I don’t fight them.

    xoxoxo

  20. JennyG – I didn’t say I was going to keep my mouth shut, just for the record.

    I was just outlining the complexity of the situation and if I have time I will outline the complexity of how I deal with things like this personally… because I do have a method and it is not off the cuff.

    er.. I am a card player and I don’t let anyone rush my game.

  21. I was hoping for some happy ending there with everyone involved and a lesson learned for the boy, but you’re not in Leave it to Beaver Land over there.
    OK…now I have my Neptune, so I’ll just throw this out…if it were my son…I would be burning the sage…or in the culture of his father (Turish Cypriot) buring olive tree leaves. This is a protective gesture..traditional to Turkish Cypriots….really a form of smudging. Usually after dinner…a handful of leaves are placed in a mortar, lit and the matriarch of the family walks around the members of the family…waving the smoke towards everyone…to protect.

    Maybe you have your own way to protect.

  22. I know, you didn’t… didn’t mean to imply that you were going to keep your mouth shut. Sometimes you have to though, and that’s reality. It’s not so simple as “report him” sometimes.

  23. “Put it in writing. Write to the police chief and explain your concerns. Stay calm and don’t cry. If you can’t remain unemotional, keep your communication in writing.”

    If you are talking about the 2 cops who would not fill out a police report, that was almost 2 years ago and when it was all said and done, I’d say they did me a favor.

    Inadvertently, maybe but a favor just the same.

    I have said this a few times but don’t know if it’s understood… or perhaps not believed or what, but think happen to me (or I do them) waaaaaaaaaay in advance of most people and it is because of this I am who I am and how I am.

  24. If this were my child:

    I’d call Gun Kid’s parents and tell them that I generally don’t want Gun Kid around My Kid with a gun… And then I’d arrange days when we could go out to a shooting range.

    This seems like a good compromise – no pointing guns at My Kid (and no sending the wrong message), and the civility is maintained.

    But if I decided that I didn’t want My Kid exposed to Gun Kid’s culture? I’d just straight out disallow further association… and call up Gun Kid’s parents to let them know that, due to irresolvable differences, our kids could no longer be in each other’s company.

    If the other parents are respectful of the rights of a parent over their child, one shouldn’t have a problem in obtaining the other parents’ compliance – assuming it’s handled with a modicum of respectfulness and civility.

    Either way, I’d make sure My Kid understood that pointing a gun at someone is never okay.

  25. I just moved from a neighborhood like that. There were so many young boys on the edge of going either way. One day they all saved my little kid from a bully on the bus. They were so proud of themselves and my son was so proud and thankful. We made them all cookies. But I could see how quickly the lines form in that community and the us/them mentality between our street and the next bus stop over.

    There were some incidents where pellet guns were being fired into my back yard and all over the place. We spoke to the kids, took the guns and made them promise to keep them away or we would take them and keep them and monitored the situation. One day one of the slightly older kids was firing his pellet gun down by my house again. I went outside and yelled at him, threatened to call the police and generally had it out with him until he took it home.

    Then I realized I wanted to go out to the store and didn’t want my house vandalized in the mean time so I took a bunch of juice boxes out for them. The offender said “I get one too?” I said yeah I like all of you, just not those guns.

    Most of their parents don’t speak English, many of them work very hard and love their children and are good to them. All of the kids live with the knowledge that their parents who don’t have their papers could be sent back at any time. They talked to me about how they felt about this. We were right in the middle of that neighborhood and we did not even scratch the surface of their culture. We were liked and some of them have even come and visited here. But we don’t really know how any of them made their living and every one of those kids we knew could go either way.

    We moved when the gunshots got really close. When someone started shooting up someone else’s car a half a block away. The police would still come there but it was getting pretty ugly.

    And I still miss them very much. They were very good to our kids. Those who appreciate visuals can see some cool pics of the old neighborhood kids on a typical weekend afternoon here:

  26. Rob I think a ten year old kid who has his own concealed bb gun and is willing to shoot a friend point blank with it has more problems than a polite neighbor lady can solve by simply asking him not to do that. I am pretty sure the kid knew what he was doing wasn’t ok and did it anyway.

    Did you miss the language issue where the other parents are concerned. And more than language, the cultural differences. You can’t just drop by with a crumb cake and a smile and ask them to please have their child refrain from shooting my child and expect that to be that.

    It isn’t that I disagree with your intent. I just think it’s more complicated than that. And I KNOW Vid knows that was never ok.

  27. ???
    If that would have happened to me as a kid, I probably would have knocked the shit out of my “friend” and stolen the gun at the first opportunity.

  28. Mos def a complex, complex situation to handle.
    No doubt you guys will “know when to hold em, know when to fold ’em”.

    Slack-jawed at entire story, but especially this part:

    POINT BLANK.
    In the next room.

  29. Before I read all the comments, I’m not sure.

    I sympathize re: the police, the same thing happened the last two times I tried/needed a report filed. (Fortunately, if somewhat dismally a few years ago like 6/7 years).

    Similarly, my friend Taylor saw some officers literally stomp on a guys head, she knew the guy, who did not report the crime – his parents also illegal immigrants – and I dunno. I know police officers good guys. but. eek.

    I’m pretty sure I woulda caught up with the kid and reacted before I had time to think. That shit woulda been out from under his shirt and in his face before I had time to think, and, if he didn’t get shot where my kid had been he’d count himself lucky. The gun’d be going home with me for sure.

    Now I’ll go read the comments and think things over.

  30. Rob, I just disagreed with some of what you said. I didn’t say shut up and stay out of it and I didn’t hear anyone else say that either.

    Would you prefer we say you’re brilliant?

  31. Sorry, Lupa, but this is the third or fourth time now that I’ve said something remotely contrary to the community here and been jumped on for it, personal character assassinations to boot.

    I expect a Mars-Mercury blog to be less surprised by these things. Maybe I’m expecting too much.

    I’ve been exposed to these situations in one way or another my whole life, and they’re not as big a deal as people think they are.

    I understand people are horrified at the possibility that Vid could have been fatally injured. But he wasn’t. These things happen thousands of times in every kid’s life. Thank God he’s okay – but now that he is, how about enjoying the relief?

    Anyway, I said what I did above because writing about this has now become a chore, where I have to defend everything I write about this without other people willing to meet me half way.

    It’s becoming a regular occurrence, because I’ve stopped randomly popping in to say hi or comment since the last couple of attacks. Now I only say something when I think it’s important enough to say. And that’s becoming tiresome, too.

    Whatever happened to curiosity about others? On this of all blogs.

  32. I disagreed with you Rob. I do not think that equals “jumping on”. I can’t speak to the previous instances because I don’t remember them but in this case it is just a lively discussion. I would think you would be less surprised by THAT on a Mars/Mercury blog.

    What’s YOUR Mars Merc status? I have a Mars, Mercury square natally and Scorpio moon and ascendant AND my man’s out of town. Wanna fight? ๐Ÿ™‚ (kidding in case that isn’t clear)

  33. Anyway, I didn’t mean to come off as having you in my sights, Lupa ๐Ÿ™‚

    I just thought that, if Elsa wanted to talk to the parents, she’d be able to get someone from that community to translate for her.

    As for Gun Kid hiding the gun… his parents may have taught him (or he may have learned) that carrying a gun around a city is… non-kosher. But I wouldn’t necessarily take it as a granted that he’d know that using that thing on someone else is wrong.

    Unless I got the feeling from Gun Kid that he was… cagey… I’d doubt that there was any maliciousness behind the attack. Children often don’t do the math when it comes to: Effect = Consequence.

    It surprises me how quickly adults forget this.

    Whether Gun Kid should know by now or not depends entirely on his environment… and reflects more on his parents than on him. What’s with the demonising of children?

    (And Lupa… this is half reply, half general comment. If anything offends you, it wasn’t meant to.)

  34. I think you have some valid thoughts here Rob and I think that the truth of it all falls somewhere in the middle. Kid knew it was wrong but might not have known how wrong. It is horrifying on many levels but no one was seriously hurt.

    Plenty of adults don’t know that action = consequence.

    Easy enough to get a translator. Not so easy to ensure good communication in a potentially heated situation WITHOUT a language barrier much less through a translator.

    I’m not easily offended Rob, but thanks for the disclaimer. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Elsa I know you’re very well advised by the soldier and you already have a plan for dealing with this in the most sensitive and effective way possible. I would love to hear how it plays out but more than that I hope everyone stays safe and happy.

  35. I didn’t mean you, Lupa ๐Ÿ™‚ Your nay-saying of my comment was just the last straw… haha. This Mars-Saturn transit is hard on me.

    As for my Mars-Mercury… I have Mars-Mercury in Gemini… Mercury in the 3rd, Mars in the 4th… all conjunct Chiron.

    So when I say something about kids and violence, I’m not talking out of my ass.

    Bring it on, Lupa ๐Ÿ™‚ As long as you’re willing to meet me half way ๐Ÿ˜‰

  36. Oh well that explains it Rob. Sun, Mercury, and Jupiter in Gemini in my chart in the 7th. Corner of my t-square involving Pluto, Uranus, Mars, Saturn and Chiron. Makes sense we would trigger each other and laugh about it.

  37. Incidents with young people in areas of the USA that seem devoid of moral values is NOT a reflection on parents. Our kids are out there rubbing elbows with knaves. Its confusing for those kids who are raised in hostility. It’s more confusing for kids who are raised with morals and values. They’re pups. The world is asking them to make a choice. Some do, for the greater good, some don’t. Being a nerd, or a good boy is not exciting and can’t take the focus off their personal hell. Abuse begets abuse.

    I raised my children in a dangerous city. I fought with the authorities because they wouldn’t protect them. I wrote editorials, picketed, argued with school officials. I was told by a school principal that if I wanted a better life for my kids, I should move to a better place. She battled the problems every day of her career and to no good end.

    I left that city in frustration knowing it wouldn’t be changed by the likes of me.

  38. Seethesea, I left my old neighborhood for the same reason. It was getting more violent and I was not going to be able to protect my kids.

  39. “And I still feel a little guilty for leaving because we loved the people there.”

    I get this. I still miss the family that lived next door for 3 years or so. It was actually 1-2 families (immigrants) House foreclosed I guess – they left in the night. I have seen this enough times, while I am kind, I do not get attached like I used to because it’s just too hard. People are very transient.. and have lots and lots of secrets.

  40. The county we were in was becoming more and more punitive towards immigrants. Passing laws that said you could only have so many cars outside a residence or that only so many adults were allowed to reside in a single family structure. They also frequently set up road blocks specifically designed to catch immigrants, NOT to stop dangerous drivers. As the economy has tanked and there is less day labor work available families have started returning to their countries of origin.

    When they are all gone except the real criminals I guess rich people will have to clean their own houses and pay more to get their lawns manicured.

  41. Didn’t mean to sound pushy. I just find a huge amount of sexism exists in our culture. I think that it is particularly strong in professions that are authority figures to a certain extent. Hence, doctors will pooh pooh a woman’s description of her physical ailments. Police will ignore a female request for a police report. Personally, I am a warrior by nature. I don’t go looking for fights, but I will take a stand. It doesn’t win me friends, but it is effective.

  42. It’s okay, flip. See, I took those cops as saturn figures. I will write about this if I can find the time and wrist.
    It is the 2nd half of what I started – “astrology for smart people”

  43. Lupa, I agree with pretty much everything you said above… As for ‘bad neighborhoods’… when I was younger the family stayed in a ‘ghetto’ Indian (as in, The East) community and yeah… it’s always sad to leave strong communities like that. Especially liked the photo with the girl holding her hand up (was that an ‘L’…?) with the pick-up in the back.

    Ambidee, if it was my kid I’d have to mightily refrain from slapping him upside the head… ๐Ÿ™‚ (But wouldn’t, mind you… I don’t do violence.)

  44. Elsa the card player who is also a saturn figure. Whoops, kid is going to get a lesson one way or another. Good opportunity for this saturn figure to help with the path choosen. Or we can hope and dream.

    As for the lesson of assuming that others are like us. That strikes me as a very important lesson here. I make that assumption and it turns around and bites me. I am learning. slowly that not everyone means well, is nice and is trying hard. Lots of selfish people out there. I keep trying to get that through my head.

    Beyond that I assume that everyone else is totally different from me. always. I’m proven right quite often. That said, their differences are fascinating most days. This difference with this situation just makes for complexity and.. probably some sadness in the world.

  45. How about taking the little potential killer by the arm, twist it around his back and talk in his face like someone who isn’t kidding, after you stick his bee bee gun up his rear end. (?) Get straight to the source, so to speak.

  46. I rather like seethesea’s idea, but given the climate of the neighborhood and the uncertainty of this kid’s family situation, it may not be a very smart move.

    I have no doubt Elsa and the Soldier will handle this exactly as it needs to be done. White light for all of you.

  47. Sorry. My suggestion was a Knee-Jerk reaction. I raised 4 kids and had to deal with the problems of this nature Italian style. I tried the police.

    There was a time when a psycho teen went after my daughter repeatedly because her boyfriend was wooing her. I made 19 police reports. (Wrote down the badge numbers of ever cop who responded) They did nothing. I gave her a shilackin, it ended right there. (I’m a Pisces) There are dolphins and there are sharks too.) “Don’t touch my kids” was my mantra.

    Oh, and by the way; the police woke up from their nap and arrested me, and her. I now have a permantly damaged right hand because she had a baseball bat. It’s okay because it would have been my daughter. Better it was me. So much for inner city living.

  48. ^^^^
    that sucks. So what happened to the other 19 police reports? That’s the kind of thing that makes you want to go to your local news station.

    I think police are merely local revenue gatherers. They aren’t interested in protecting you, but fleecing you for fines? yep.

    That being said, I also understand that they have to clean up all the nasty stuff the rest of us get to look away from. Accidents, murders, suicides, drugs, molesters. And so on.

    I think it changes them after a while, makes them insensitive, jaded and weary. You’d have to have quite an inner light inside to keep on your own higher path after all that…

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