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Karmic Connections

buendia
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Karma is an often discussed topic around here, as well as how it appears to relate to or reveal itself in certain relationships. 

The notion of Karmic relationships generally arises due to some otherworldly feeling of connection and recognition/familiarity with someone you’ve never met in this lifetime, which some say suggests there was a meeting in another lifetime, or on some other plane of existence. 

Because of the intensity of some of these relationships, they are often said to fulfill a specific purpose in this lifetime—to make amends or settle the score, or something. For some reason, we often associate short intense relationships with Karma, yet we often include notions of karma in our familial relationships as well—those that generally last throughout our lifetime.

Doubt tends to arise because we, of course, have no material evidence to rely on, but also because it’s easy to dismiss those who appear to be in romantic ecstasy and agony! We want reason for the depths of our love and loss!

But what about signs of Karma that outlast the relationship?

I started noticing this pattern awhile ago and over time I’ve been able to distinguish the particulars of this pattern. After the end of my most intense relationship a few years ago, I started noticing a series of numbers that reminded me of that person. In the throes of my heartbreak, it was absolute agony. Now, after working through my pain and resentment, it still happens and it’s weird! When it happens, I’ve noticed it (whatever it is) is letting me know this person is struggling with something, and after checking, that does seem to be the case. 

A relationship with this person would be unsustainable, so when I see these numbers I pray for him and send him love. I don’t know what else I could do! I don’t think we’re meant to be friends, though it would be my preference, but I’m good if that can’t happen. I don’t really know what these reminders are for, and I’m ok with uncertainty. It’s just weird! I don’t particularly want to meet the person in any other lifetime (lol) but who knows. Maybe we’re (I’m) just supposed to maintain this distant connection until it subsides naturally, if it decides to. Maybe it’s nothing!

Astrologically, I tend to pinpoint his sun on my desc, my Venus on his SN. 

Anyway, I know I’m not the only who has a conception of karmic relationships, and though I certainly can’t say that it’s ‘real’ or ‘true’ any more or less than anyone else, the idea tends to pull attention towards itself, regardless, which is interesting.

So, in the spirit of Mercury Retrograde in Pisces, lets return to your stories about the mystery of love and connection! If you believe you’ve encountered one or more before, what are your experiences of Karmic relationships or connections? What do you think and feel about it? Can you add in the astrology?

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Warped
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I posted here many times about this experience years ago, so briefly...

Many years ago I met a man with his Chiron conjunct my South Node/Uranus to the degree and minute. His Venus, Mars, and Mercury all around my Descendant within 4 degrees. His Sun conjunct my 5th house Jupiter. His Saturn conjunct my IC/Venus. His Moon square my Mars and opposite my Mercury. His Nodes square to mine.

We were thrown together by innocuous circumstances, a course of study abroad. Within days bantered like old chums, finished each other's sentences, shared confidences and adventures in a chaste yet soul-baring friendship that felt like a magical memory. He recognized my deepening feelings and lamented his own unsatisfactory but unbreakable commitments. "I nearly left years ago, but now I'm too old too start over," he said. 

For years I obsessed over him, never fell in love again. Looking back, it seemed like his interesting but shrewish wife orchestrated the proximity (sending us off on errands together daily, etc.) to set him up for a fresh dressing down over some long ago indiscretion (bits overheard by me). 

Karmic collisions, lessons learned?

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buendia
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Oh my gosh, Warped... I’m twisting inside for you....

Thank you for sharing that. I wish I had more to say but I just don’t think my words would do it justice. The sublime will tolerate the rational, but it doesn’t really want it. I’m just sitting here, awestruck.

“I nearly left years ago, but now I’m too old too start over”

Even when I’m faced with it, it’s so hard to fathom the things the human heart can endure...

(If you ever document this story as an essay or memoir, it would be a privilege to read, and I would in a heartbeat)

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Warped
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@buendia 

Haven't seen you here lately, but I'm replying to your reply to mine (!) because these posts popped up when I searched the site for "Chiron in Composites."  I was searching for this after reading Elsa's blog post on synastry which led to comments about composite charts. 

That prompted me to examine composites of several relationships including the man I mentioned above.  I'd never noticed it before, but today I was struck by one element -- the composite Chiron, in 5th house, is exactly the same, in sign, degree, and minute, as my natal Sun.  Karmic?

Composite charts, transits to them at significant times, position of Chiron and others -- all may offer insights quite amazing in retrospect.

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la_sirena
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@warped you should also look at parallels if you haven’t already. The person I fell in love with like that has their Sun and Uranus exactly parallel my descendant and exactly contra parallel my Chiron. We also have Venus Pluto exactly parallel. 

I’m sure you know this as this has been discussed here lots in the past, but the Magi astrologers give a lot of weight to Chiron in love relationships. They also give a lot of weight to the parallel aspect as well as the quincunx 

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la_sirena
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Btw, it seems like it’s a common theme that men don’t treasure this type of pure love. Somewhere deep down they know they have screwed up badly, but being left-brain dominant, they often misplace their sense of duty. Since they don’t follow with their heart, they often screw up this type of once in a lifetime opportunity. I taught my son from a young age to always follow his heart.
 Anyway, so sad… never doubt that you crept up in his heart in every silent reflective moment he had. They do listen to their hearts, they just don’t follow them. 

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soup
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@la_sirena This is beautiful. And I agree with it. Except for one thing... mine did. He followed his heart. He married another Pisces. He left and came looking for me. Here we are.

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Warped
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@la_sirena 

Perhaps, or perhaps someone else from long ago -- remember, he "almost left years ago."  But that's never been important, what I couldn't understand was why an otherwise witty, adventurous, accomplished, magnetic man allowed his wife to endlessly nag, berate, and belittle him in front of others.  He even apologized for it, saying all hell would break loose if he retorted.  Actually, her behavior might've been triggered by awareness of the cut-it-with-a-knife chemistry between us which he made no effort to hide.  His chosen form of retort may have been passive-aggressive.  

It may have dated back to a past indiscretion, or to his childhood.  His dad was killed in WWII when he was an infant, mom remarried, he said he'd always felt the subsequent half siblings were favored.  But he was on good terms with them and his mom.

I've come to accept that it was all an irrational, impractical fantasy on my part to want a place in his life of any variety.  Perhaps I had to learn a lesson.  But noticing the Chiron composite thing after all these years right now with Pluto transiting my natal Chiron has me examining composites of many couples.  I don't really understand parallels, but did notice many 22-23s and 11s in each of our Declinations...?  Much new stuff to learn!

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dolce
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I don't know if this example is totally right, but when I think of karmic relationships I have one person who comes to mind.

When I was 18 I still remember the exact moment I first laid eyes on him. I even know the date. There was the sudden, intense feeling that overcame my whole body and, wow I can still see this moment and feel it. I see him, the clothes he was wearing, the leaves on the trees behind him...

I don't think he ever had this feeling about me.

Anyway, I bided my time and in a few months we were together. That feeling honestly is what kept us together. He was a horrible, horrible boyfriend. I put up with him, on and off for 8 years. He was unfaithful, a liar. I could go on.

To this day, I don't know why I had to have that amazing feeling for someone like him. So disappointing. I would never trust that feeling ever again, and to this day I figure, well I'll just blame it on karma! Because I have no other explanation.

Luckily, he was not my first experience with love (nor my last) and I was able to remember that healthier, earlier, experience and contrast it with this one, and it kept me from believing that love meant suffering. (I do have a t-square in my chart - Saturn squaring my Venus/Neptune opposition.)

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Vesta
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Tough question, Buendia. I can only applaud you all and comfort you from the distance and anonymity  of the Internet. Its raw and very private, but sharing  here in spirit of camaraderie. Fireside stories of personal battles, if you will.

When I experienced it with someone I deeply care about, it seemed the Earth stopped on its axis, and there were just the two of us left in the world. We would look into each other's eyes, talking about the most mundane things, and then there was nothing or no one else in the Universe. It happened a few times, that feeling of the world fading (despite us being literally around hundreds of people, and a few in immediate vicinity, claiming our attention). I think other people are very aware when you have those magical, life changing moments. They look away because they realize its private, magical and....a bit spiritual. Between us, there was an instant sense of familiarity and the feeling of being each other's family from the moment we clapped eyes on each other. I think we read each other's thoughts over great distances, especially when either is upset or experiencing any deep emotion. We tell each other things we would not utter to another human being ever, not even our 'real' families. Its has never been even remotely romantic or sexual in any form, but the feeling of someone poking and exploring every inch of your brain from inside out is perhaps the greatest intimacy of them all.

The astrology of it...too many to recount. Major influences:

My moon completes their T square into a Grand cross to the exact degree (11 minutes). My Mars is on their South node. Their venus is exactly conjunct my midheaven to the minute. Not going to bore you with all asteroids, but I have a deep personal connection to Psyche and we have a mutual close receptivity of that to angles, hence the increased sensitivity. We also have a moon-Mars, Sun-Moon, pluto-mercury and Moon-Neptune connection. Funnily, we have a mutual Ascendent square Venus synastry. We are from diametrically opposite cultures and ethnicities.

In composite, our sun and venus are conjunct by 1.3 degrees, and especially venus is exactly conjunct the composite descendent.  It explains the never-ever-going-to-diminish deep rooted affection between us.

The composite has a Tsquare too, whose helm is Saturn which is conjunct my natal moon exactly (and opposite their moon-Jupiter conjunction). The stability of it is deeply satisfying for my emotions. I know deep inside that we will always be in each other's lives till both of us live.

One arm of the Tsquare is the moon-chiron conjunction, which sits exactly on their natal sun.I hope the emotional healing of this non-relationship is good for their ego. The last arm is an exact Mars-Uranus conjunction. Though the situation feels anything but impetuous. It has lasted its current state for a couple of years now, with no change, and none planned at all. Smile I am happy it exists, and that is enough.

I definitely believe its karmic, and whats more, I think its helping me evolve emotionally and spiritually. I don't think it will ever turn romantic but we are a spiritual family and nothing will change that.

Lastly, before anyone jumps to conclusions, our respective spouses have always known about our connection (though not its astrological explanation) and have encouraged the friendship because its good for both of ours mental health. So there is nothing seedy or secret about it. Just thought of the disclaimer because a lot of people make that mistake in our real life. I blame our composite Juno exactly conjunct our Midheaven. We do indeed look like we are together when we are seen together. I can't explain why, but it just is. 

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anonymoushermit
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I believe that I had karma with my parents (the negative kind). I once had a past life hypnotism and perhaps in a past life, I wasn't such a nice parent...to put it nicely!

Then I turned 25 and ran for the hills away from them. I feel no connection to them anymore, like they're some stranger on the street I have no clue who they are.

Lesson learned: If you become a parent, make sure you have the maturity level, and tools, to deal with being a parent!

I have South Node in Capricorn. Makes sense that perhaps I was a careless parent (Capricorn) in at least one past life. Now I just want to be in a burrow (North Node in Cancer).

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