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Family: Heart Torn


Poppy
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I'm torn. For years, during my son's childhood & adolescence, his father "shared" to me the lies he was making up and spreading to anyone who would listen, about me. Often, he prefaced by saying, "As everyone knows..." Mindboggling for me at the time, and I'd say, "You see me for a few minutes a week, coming to ferry our kid. Not only are you fabulating about me... we have zero contact outside... 15 minutes, or less, per week!" Keep in mind, when this was going on, my son knew, and said, that his father was inventing lies, due to that father's animosity to me. He knew, because unlike his father, he saw me every day - morning, and evening, 5 or 6 days each week, in his school years.

My heart is somewhat shedded right now, because, recently, when speaking on the phone with my son, he repeated those same lies, saying that he knew so.... blue eek He's still striving to get his father's approval? Or, he's lost his mind, his own memories?

Of course, I love my kid. (Proof, he's alive - just kidding.) I truly have zero idea how to address this snarled, tangled bit of "news," Which is not new, because I had to hear it, for years, from the posturing statements from the father of this son of mine.

Sorry. This stinks, I know. Anyone with any insight, any reply, welcome, please. Me, I'm still dumbstruck. And heartsick.

Anyone, any thoughts at all?

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Poppy
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For anyone reading this topic, whether you reply or simply cogitate, here's some words of wisdom, from an astute Capricorn Moon: "Everyone's entitled to act like a piece of shit, sometime."

She loved her grandson, and yes, she was talking about him, in a different - yet similar - context.  No wonder it took me so many years to grasp astrology.  Gemini Moon, me, so close to Capricorn and Virgo Moons (several, of each).  Taurus Sun, surrounded by Cardinal sign Suns... with love, of course, despite the complexities inhibiting understanding.  All that to say, Ninth house, in Cancer, is the flagship center in the fleet of all the planets in my chart.  My chart ruler, rules from there.

Nevermind.  Tired, I digressed.  Please, anyone with any thoughts at all, I hope you'll put your thoughts.  Any glimmer of insight, because, I'm in the dark since a week or so.

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shortpants
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Posted by: @poppy

For anyone reading this topic, whether you reply or simply cogitate, here's some words of wisdom, from an astute Capricorn Moon: "Everyone's entitled to act like a piece of shit, sometime."

Keyword is "sometime". This is sustained, malicious abuse. What a horrible person. I'm sorry this is happening to you ?

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Elsa
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I'm really sorry, Poppy.  Kids grow up and they come to their own conclusions which can sometimes be delusions or who knows. They are most definitely highly impacted by everything that happens to them when they're young.  Not just by their parents but also their school, some teachers, the media they're exposed to, etc.

It can be a very harsh when you see this but you have find a way to work with and around whatever is there, if you want a relationship with your kid.  And they with you, too.

Again, it can be devastating to realize what you're realizing now. I feel for you!  But you will not be able to turn back time, which is moving ahead even faster than we realize.

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Poppy
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So sorry that I took so long to return to this topic I made.  I did, really, feel ripped in my heart.  Gemini ♊ Moon ? (me) enables being able to say so, while it happens.  Not analysis, though, in the moment.

Eventually, I looked at my son's current Lunar Return chart.  Poor puppy.  What a slam, for him - huge slamming bang.  I don't yet know how to smudge out personal details at the top of a chart, so, instead of posting that, his lunar return was March 27; Ascendant on that chart is 14° Cancer ♋.  Mega stellium.

I wholeheartedly agree with what Elsa wrote.  There's no way ahead - for any of us - now, except forward.  ::At long last::. I still don't know how to talk with my son, and haven't dared, while I was feeling torn.

Shortpants, I didn't know, until many years later, that my son's father was gaslighting about me, very - very - often, in his hearing.  In his childhood and teen years, he knew his father was lying, and said so, to me.  But, his father (AC Taurus ♉, Scorpio ♏ Sun) repeats everything he says, ad naseum.  Years upon years.  (Don't ask.  A quirky apeal, 30-some years ago.  And, all his relatives are good people... By the way, my son's father's ill deeds are in no way due to anyone in his family; his mother, and his father, were and are good people, and good parents.  Grandparents, and aunts and uncles, ditto.  Cousins and siblings too.)

 

Anyone else wants to chime in, for any reason, please do, and welcome.  Smile /p>

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canscocappy
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I'm really, really sad to hear that. I don't know how old is your son, but there's still hope. I was in his position with my parents (they have never divorced, but there's a lot of toxicity in their relationship), where my mother was telling me stuff against my father. I almost hated him for years due to her words (mother Cap Sun/Virgo Moon/ Leo Asc, father is a triple Virgo, with their Moons conjunct... Oh the irony). However, after the bad stuff I went through with my ex, at 28, during my 1st Saturn return, I started fixing my relationship with my father. Not only I can now discern when my mother is lying, but my father was the first to know about my cheating on my ex. 

Went on too long, but the point is there: yes, he's trying to earn the approval of his father. But yes, he's still young and he will learn. It's hard.

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Plutolover
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Posted by: @canscocappy

I'm really, really sad to hear that. I don't know how old is your son, but there's still hope. I was in his position with my parents (they have never divorced, but there's a lot of toxicity in their relationship), where my mother was telling me stuff against my father. I almost hated him for years due to her words (mother Cap Sun/Virgo Moon/ Leo Asc, father is a triple Virgo, with their Moons conjunct... Oh the irony). However, after the bad stuff I went through with my ex, at 28, during my 1st Saturn return, I started fixing my relationship with my father. Not only I can now discern when my mother is lying, but my father was the first to know about my cheating on my ex. 

Went on too long, but the point is there: yes, he's trying to earn the approval of his father. But yes, he's still young and he will learn. It's hard.

I've been thinking about this thread all weekend, and the last bit in canscocappy's post is spot on, and told from a personal perspective. This must be so hard - as parents, we want to fix any problems/worries for our children, and when something like this comes along, we are helpless, really.

Your son is still very young, maturity can land a lot later with some kids, and if he knows you love him without question, with dignity, he should see what is going on before his eyes.

I always say parenting is hands down the hardest job I have ever undertaken ❤️ 

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Poppy
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@plutolover, I agree!  And thank you for your perceptive discernment,

Also, yes, parenthood is definitely NOT for the faint of heart.   Takes guts.  Takes full on commitment, full heart, full everything.  Cancer smiley  

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Poppy
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@canscocappy, thank you for your thoughts.  These are why it's worth it to share, here on ElsaElsa's forums.

Sometimes - and this is true also for my son - a person's experiences can make them "younger" than their years.  Simply observation.  Me, my experiences did a wobble: in some ways, way older in my views, and yet, very naive - younger than my years - about other essential matters.  Ha.  Life.  There you go.

Saturn return kudos to you.  Take charge, sort things out.  By the way, what sign is your Saturn, if that's not too personal?

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canscocappy
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@poppy Saturn in Capricorn 12th house, ruler of my Ascendant. I could definitely pick the energy up at home, even though I was not hearing any arguments. I learnt to keep my mouth firmly closed so as not to make any waves. Nowadays, though, with trUranus conjunct my natal IC, I feel tired if this energy between my parents.

As for feeling younger... This whole thing made me a bit naive, as I wanted to have warm relationships, contrary to what I was experiencing at home. At 31, I'm a bit more discerning, but it takes work. 

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Poppy
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I've been slow in replying in this topic I made, and I'm sorry for that.  Making this topic was an act of bravery - for truth, for testifying, for putting another true story on Elsa's astrology library.

Slow to get back, because my heart truly feels shredded.

And yet.  Sitting in our kitchen this evening, my housemate nagging me again to telephone my son, I did that.  Know this, I simply asked how he was doing...

To be continued, yeah?  I hope

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