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Being the ghost leg of someone's natal Tsquare  

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Vesta
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What kind of relationship karma would one have to keep being the ghost leg of other people's Tsquares natally or by progressions?

I recently met a colleague (a woman), first via email, introduced by another acquaintance at work, then over video chats and later in person. Its like I have always known her!  We can yap for hours and not feel tired. There is genuine mutual understanding. I later found out she is senior HR at the unit I am at, which made some of the revelations weird, but she is genuinely warm and caring. So I felt safe. 

I am going to meet her again soon and speak of my current personal circumstances. I am freaking out about the possibility of being pregnant, giving birth alone, in a house 50 kms from the city. In my mind, she can be my support system and a trusted friend who can be there for me. At first, I assumed it was fear talking. But then, I looked at her chart and there it was! My sun fills her natal Tsquare. 

This is not the first time this is happening. I tend to attract family-substitutes where my personal planets fill their natal or progressed Tsquares. Curious about the phenomenon and want to ask of you have had similar experiences or want to share insights? 

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Tam
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I have. I usually feel very strongly about the person for good or bad.

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Vesta
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@tam Thanks for replying, Tam. Do you remember if there were any particular planets involved in feeling good or bad?

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Tam
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@vesta In one case my Sun filled in the square and in the other it was my Moon. I'm not friends with either one now but they had a profound impact on my life.

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Osiris Wife
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@tam did you have aspects with the Nodes with either persons?

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Tam
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@osiris-wife they both had North Node in Gemini but not directly on my ascendant but close. Because I was born in 1966, the 1964 & 65 people have NN in Gemini

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Vesta
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@tam How fascinating. I have experience of being a moon in a very tight configuration, and while there are about a million and a half markers of power struggles between us,  years have shown that that particular energy gets directed outwards, to other people, bonding us further. 

As a Sun, I have been great friends, joined at the hip, but the friendship eventually soured.  

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Osiris Wife
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I am the T-Square, and the person completes me. It's a feeling of coming home, after a long search..

p.s your questions/posts often have a profound effect on me. Thank you for reminding me of this, lest I take them for granted. 

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Vesta
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@osiris-wife Thank you! I don't have to tell you about your monumental impact on me, so much so that it made me curious about aspects between us. LOL! 🤣 

Thank you for sharing the perspective of the Tsquare. You would indeed thing that the square would be the thirsty one, seeing how they are being satiated by the contact, but I do end up feeling it more. I wonder why. 

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Osiris Wife
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@vesta

If/when we meet in person, I will gladly show you my chart.

At dawn on my walking meditation, the sky was clear enough for me to see the Crescent Moon-Venus conjunction. It was beautiful and I also feel it awakened (Uranus Rx pun intended) some more thoughts on this topic….

I suspected that both the T-Sq and the Ghost Leg (GL) feel the connection but had never fully contemplated the effects. Of course, depending on either person’s charts, the signs and houses involved, it can be a profound life changing aspect in synastry (grand square/cross).

In my case, the T-Sq is angular in my chart and the focal planet naturally traps enormous amounts of the T-Sq’s energy with no outlet. So, the arrival of the GL, exact degree opposition to the T-Sq focal planet, created a channel for complete flow of energy. As for the GL, in their chart that planet is involved in tight stressful aspects that have consistently brought much anxiety and troubles in their life, much like being in that terrible  movie – Ground Hog Day - until the GL received the trapped energy from the focal planet in the T-Sq. This energy functions in many ways, but most important I see it dissolving the façades that help heal and awaken the GL to new perspectives of self-awareness.

I have had many friends that have been the GL, each felt different from the current. Which makes sense, because it depends on the houses involved, and their unique charts. But I also think a lot of it has to do with timing. My progressed chart now has one of the T-Sq. legs at stationary direct, so emphasizing the arrival of forward motion for the T-Sq; this is what I articulated as a feeling of completion after a long journey of searching.  In the GL’s progressed chart, the same p.planet as the n.planet that completes my T-Sq., is preparing to change signs thus also signifying a time of change.

 

 

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Vesta
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@osiris-wife Then I would pray for the day when we get to meet, to arrive when we are ready. Smile

So, so interesting what you shared about your Tsq/GL interaction, especially the progressions and their significance. Kind of similar to what I was reading today about angle rulers in synastry by Dawn Bodragi. It seems your  and your GL's Grand Square is locked in place. Being a Capricorn heavy person, the stability of it feels deeply nice to me, even at this distance. Smile

The other Tsq I am the ghost leg of (Person represented by white cutlery in song dream you interpreted :)), I am the moon, opposite their moon-jupiter conjunction. Its in their angular houses as well, with cardinal signs to boot. It is as you describe, the energy has a space to flow out of themselves and be manifested. For me, unlike your GL, my moon is mostly innocent, only conjunct my chart ruler and no other horrendous aspects to mar its potency in playful 5th house. You would laugh (given our other conversations elsewhere on the forum) when I tell you that our respective Saturns will be conj each other's progressed charts' Ascendents more or less for the next 3-4 years. The progressed charts for both include Juno and Jupiter completing each other's Pr Tsqs though. This could be fun!

I do have an additional query though. What do you think happens when an outer planet transits any of this Grand Square's legs. In my case, first Jupiter, then Saturn and lastly Pluto have been tap dancing on my moon. Does the Tsq feel it more intently (besides the complication of opposition and squares to their planets), because it impacts their GL? Or does the energy flow more naturally because they now have an outlet provided by the Universe, and not a person who may or may not be in their life permanently? 

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Vesta
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Ooooh, and one more! Do you thjnk Tsquares (and consequently, their GL) involving the Nodes are a thing? Thats just a natural axis, right? But what if its a focal point of a chart?

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Osiris Wife
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I don’t think it nullifies the TSq-GL connection and in my opinion both will equally feel the impact of the transiting outer planets. Now as we know outer planets are “change agents” so that connection will experience growth, likely evolve depending on the rest of the charts. So, you are right in saying the TSq now has an outlet with the transitioning planet, but more than an outlet, the TSq likely learns how to balance within without externalizing or relying on another. In other words, the lesson may be learned and the TSq may not need that specific GL anymore, instead may need a different experience for further learning/growth through a new GL chart. This is one possibly scenario, obviously a planet like Saturn’s transits might bind the TSq-GL. How the connect is impacted will strongly depend on other aspects between the TSq-GL charts.

Do you think Tsquares (and consequently, their GL) involving the Nodes are a thing? That’s just a natural axis, right? But what if its a focal point of a chart?

This is the concept of “Skipped Step(s)” from Evolutionary Astrology - Nodes forming a TSq with a planet or planets in conjunction. Since the Nodes are not heavenly bodies, I personally do not believe the interchange of energy in a Skipped Step happens as we are discussing in this topic. The exception is, if one or both Nodes are conjunct a leg, respectively, in a planetary only TSq. Since the Nodes are our subconscious emotions and the Moon being the conscious emotions, it implies that Nodal involvement in a planetary TSq-GL connection might bring up a lot of subconscious stuff for the TSq – for good or bad, as some of that stuff maybe from childhood, the past (S.Node), and it’s resurfacing is designed to help the native grow, move forward (N.Node). The GL would then receive the energy through the opposition planet in the TSq, this energy having gone through a subconscious emotional (Nodes) synthesis in the TSq’s chart. Basically, when the Nodes are involved there is a lot more going on below the surface, mostly for the Node owner.

On the other hand, I find the concept of Skipped Steps fascinating, but not everyone believes in reincarnation.

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Vesta
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@osiris-wife Thank you for the wonderful explanation. Makes sense. I personally have no pattern in my chart and have the karma to continuously be the one to complete it for others with my service oriented chart.

About transits to GL or Tsq, I think in my case, they ended up triggering my entry into the Tsq's life or increased significance. Perhaps once the lessons are learnt, the ties are naturally dissolved slowly. Growth is wonderful. Smile

About Nodes and their role in Tsq-GL, thanks for clearing it up. At astro.com, when one turns on aspects to nodes, my chart ruler is lit up via a SNode conjunction with a family member. Their 4 planets make a crossed sword or a sharp X in their chart, including Sun and Mars/Saturn opposition. These stelliums are square their nodes, hence my chart ruler. I was wondering if the resultant Grand Square (if one can call it that) impacts the relationship.

Lastly, I know Elsa has written elsewhere about it, but do you have any thoughts on the differences between GL of a Cardinal, Fixed or Mutable Tsq? Does it matter if the aspect is out of sign, and thereby out of modality?

P.S. I love how comprehensive this thread is turning out to be, even if it seems like a conversation between just us both. I hope it helps someone stumbling upon it sometime in the future. 

 

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Osiris Wife
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P.S. I love how comprehensive this thread is turning out to be, even if it seems like a conversation between just us both. I hope it helps someone stumbling upon it sometime in the future

Thanks for reminding me of this. Today, I was about to throw the towel-in on all the topics that I seemingly am talking to myself. So, I also hope our conversation enlightens a passerby one day. 

GL of a Cardinal, Fixed or Mutable Tsq? Does it matter if the aspect is out of sign, and thereby out of modality?

I think the fixed TSq is the hardest to deal with. It's fixed, and fixed signs simply don't like change. The mutable TSq eventually adapts. Whereas, the cardinal TSq will more likely run with the horses. As for the out of sign GL, I think those can be tricky perhaps less effective, as they likely bring a different element that may frustrate the flow of energy. I generally find out of sign aspects less obvious. I have one in my chart and it always catches me and others off guard when it rears it's head (hehehe).

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Tam
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@osiris-wife Please continue! I don't know enough to add anything most of the time

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CocoPeaches
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@osiris-wife I second Tam's reply. I often feel that your offerings are way over my head, but I am always running off to do a little more research and learning something new. Thank you for raising the bar in that respect! I'm sorry that you feel that your offerings are not being received, so I'll try to do a better job of commenting on the little bits that pique my interest, even when I feel that I don't have anything substantial to contribute.

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Vesta
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Thank you for the explanation(s), for both modality and out of aspects. If you have any other examples of transits to the GL or Tsq, please share. I am very curious. I will also be on the lookout for Progressions and their significance.

Last (i think) questions, I know you believe in all akashic records saying essentially the same thing, but is there any major difference in a Tsq/GL created by a synastry in traditional tropical chart, a draconic chart or sidereal chart; a solar arc (especially since outers move much faster in Solar Arc) or progressed chart (where both people are  right now in time?) AND a Tsq/GL created in a composite, progressed composite (state of relationship now?)?

Its too complicated, I know. So feel free to tackle it in stages.

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