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Being Punished for Seeing Through Bullsh*t
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dolce
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Friday, October 4, 2019 - 10:49 am
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There are 2 people I follow on social media who I learn a lot from. They know each other. One is the leader, the other learned from him. The leader is older, has a credential and is pretty confrontational in his communication, speaks in terms most people don’t understand and is helpful only sometimes. He got to where he is for a reason. I don’t much like his attitude but he’s smart and the information is generally good.

The one who learned from him is also incredibly smart, younger, and constantly looking into and studying the topics. Eventually he saw that the leader wasn’t quite right about a few things. In fact, he noticed that some significant parts of his work were totally off and tried to talk to him about it. He was met with scorn and pushed away. Eventually he was blocked. People ended up mocking him, but his insights are sound. The leader isn’t wrong about everything but was bullshitting his way through his mistakes.

I watched this happen, and I 100% related to the one who saw the flaw and tried to fix it, but was pushed away because of it. In fact, this has happened to me a couple of times. I have Pluto sq. Mercury so I will find things out. My communication sometimes needs work but it’s amazing to me how people don’t want the truth. Once they think they’ve found their guru or an answer, they stick to that thing like crazy and don’t let go. 

Ever notice this?

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virgolight
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Friday, October 4, 2019 - 11:17 am
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To me a truly great teacher would want to be questioned or challenged by his/her students. That’s the nature of exchange for both the leader and the follower.  The leader should want the student to realize his own independence of thought.

The Leader to whom you refer sounds like a fanatic at the core with a sheep-like following. That’s why the younger person is being rejected/shamed.

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Libra Noir
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Friday, October 4, 2019 - 11:34 am
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I take a little bit here and there from everyone I meet. I doubt that I would ever adopt someones complete outlook on life. Im here on Earth to offer my unique point of view and not at the expense of others points of view. 

Its funny how many people have warned me about gurus etc, when I talk about my spirituality. They dont get me lol.  I dont worship any human and I dont respect any human that would allow other humans to worship them. 

Also, I think true leaders are the ones that dont claim to know things but are just seeking themselves. (DarkAquarian wrote a quote here on the forum, that stated what Im trying to say, perfectly. I wish I could remember it grrr). 

Interesting topic. 

Astrology: I have Mercury conj Moon in Scorpio in the 11th sextile Venus in the ninth. 

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elisa
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Friday, October 4, 2019 - 11:40 am
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it seems the older guy with wisdom and knowledge doesn’t want to look stupid, that he is not infallible.  Maybe the audience he has is very unforgiving or maybe he perceives it that way, that he can’t make mistakes and he likes the adoration.  People who enjoy the adoration would not want their circle to fall behind and think ‘oh my he is not as genius god as everyone thought.’ but people usually are smart and know that people make mistakes. So that could be it, and it’s good the younger guy got some clue ins about knowing some things that the older guy missed. The guy with lots of wisdom and knowledge got his ego boosted and it felt good to know maybe that he was looked upon as this ‘god’like being with a big brain. Then another guy comes along and questions that. Maybe if the the younger guy got to know the older guy a bit more and chummy up with him and tell him that hey i might question some things about your work and you might get upset. So heads up ok? That kind of thing.

edit – oh i thought maybe the older guy was threatened and thought that this younger guy is trying to humiliate him. That could also cross his mind too. Thats why i thought maybe its best if the younger guy chummy up with the older guy and tell him hey i mean no harm and i come in peace so if i get some ideas that i see through something that is different than yours don’t get upset ok?

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dolce
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Friday, October 4, 2019 - 12:55 pm
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Very true – he may feel threatened, and humiliated too. It’s hard to come to terms with holes in your argument when you’ve put so much into it.

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Friday, October 4, 2019 - 12:13 pm
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Yes, I have noticed things like this. My Cancer Mercury is square Pluto.

I don’t get the mentality of putting anyone on a pedestal and letting their ideas shape my life or thoughts as if they were superior to me.

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dolce
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Friday, October 4, 2019 - 12:54 pm
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I think the same. I don’t understand the dynamic between charismatic leaders and blind followers. It’s pretty limiting if you give up your power of discernment.

The older guy wrote a popular book and the whole last chapter is apparently wrong. Th book is published, people follow his advice which is not easy to do (I never bothered to attempt it, not up my alley), but it turns out he’s wrong. Oof.

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Friday, October 4, 2019 - 1:42 pm
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Being Punished for Seeing Through Bullsh*t

I could use this as a title to a book.

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dolce
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Saturday, October 5, 2019 - 9:05 am
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Lol!

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Warped by Wuthering Heights
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Saturday, October 5, 2019 - 8:43 pm
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Perfect title for a book about life in the corporate world!

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Michaela
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Sunday, October 6, 2019 - 3:55 am
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I have this problem since high school,i refused to read books out loud for everyone to hear, which i knew was written with half truths. I told my teacher i do not want to spread lies.

I wtch no television since the age of 14 cause i only cried after 10 minutes watching tv,knowing i am and everyone else is being lied to and put in a cage (the four wall we live in) to obey and listen to their crap. It actually started from the day i knew television with 14 i rejected tv,now i refuse a lot of media in general. I know it makes me an outsider but hey…

I got rejected by a schooling,even i had only A’s(here we say 1) and was patient for 3 years to join that class,i was rejected with the words,i do not fit in (!!!!!???) – (maybe also cause i am just a half german and not full german and half somali,but that didn’t bother me personally ever in my life,other’s had problems with me for many reasons), i was only hungry to learn and the more i showed that i want to,the more they made it a nasty game. Very unfair and not human at all.

My main teacher refused to visit a bank in frankfurt with me,and rather had the barbie girls clique with her( i was also friends with the barbie clique,they told me she doesn’t like my attitude)…that was my main teacher… i guess cause i wasn’t that money hungry as she was and interested in humanity. Why do people feel threatened by opposites?

I asked my father to help me get my rights or change the school,but he was on the site of the teachers cause he doesn’t like to fight with authority. I had this with almost any teacher at that school. My father was an alcoholic and abusive so i guess he was scared they trouble him.

Then at the other school,i got along with the director of the school,he said he likes my spirit,but that created so much envy and all i tried was to learn what was left out,hell i have an aries venus north node jupiter and mc in the ninth house,i still think to join the universe but i am truly deeply afraid i really do not fit in even if i try my best i feel scared to be rejected again,my brother he had this too,studied arts and got bullied by the prof. and other’s there until he left.

we both have saturn and uranus in sagittarius…

 

Must say my youngest brother with his sun conjunct mercury pluto and mars had similar issues,he was one of the best at school,we went to the same secondary school,he came two years after me,and my job then was to protect him from the teachers so they won’t try the same with him,so i had to destroy 3 teachers with my words and got kicked out for “my attitude”…

I have sun and mercury opposite pluto,pluto square moon and rising and add a gemini mars in the 11th house to all that,i notice too much for my own good plus i love to learn,having adhd doesn’t make it easier for me. I know i can be too much but i would love to sit and listen to the right teacher of mine. I adore teachers who know they are here to learn too and not just to teach..

I try to be more around mutable signs cause they are able to adapt to almost anyone and anything,and are much more light,i try to learn from them.

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Michaela
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Sunday, October 6, 2019 - 4:06 am
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There was an astrologist she said,everyone is their own guru.

She is right,and that is why i love to hear anyone’s point of view,cause there is just so much to explore…

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Michaela
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Sunday, October 6, 2019 - 4:13 am
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I think we all struggle with this,and i am happy it is the age of aquarius,i read that the age of aquarius won’t be done until every person on earth is happy.

I still don’t know where to fit in perfectly,cause i really need to get my degrees,authority put stones in my way too often,and now that i am older i am highly afraid that i keep refusing to joing the modern community.

Oh just saying,it takes two to tango,of course i make it myself hard too if i rebel

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Friday, May 29, 2020 - 8:59 am
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Yes, shows like Rick and Morty tackle this theme in great detail.

‘Everyone only wants people they like to be right, that’s why popular people are so stupid’.

Modern life includes a great deal of strategy. Knowing how to deal with these narcissistic types that believe they are right in all cases and are hypersensitive to criticism.

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Friday, May 29, 2020 - 12:59 pm
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Libra Noir said
I take a little bit here and there from everyone I meet. I doubt that I would ever adopt someones complete outlook on life. Im here on Earth to offer my unique point of view and not at the expense of others points of view. 

Its funny how many people have warned me about gurus etc, when I talk about my spirituality. They dont get me lol.  I dont worship any human and I dont respect any human that would allow other humans to worship them. 

Also, I think true leaders are the ones that dont claim to know things but are just seeking themselves. (DarkAquarian wrote a quote here on the forum, that stated what Im trying to say, perfectly. I wish I could remember it grrr). 

Interesting topic. 

Astrology: I have Mercury conj Moon in Scorpio in the 11th sextile Venus in the ninth. 

  

Perhaps the quote is: “I will follow a person who seeks knowledge, but run from them once they claim to have found it”.

I too have Pluto (scorpio, 4th) sq Mercury (29deg, Cap, 7th).

To say I enjoy finding holes in ideals, logic, etc. would be an understatement.

Seems that the older person is fighting the notion that his “role” he pledges fealty to is losing it’s grip upon others, where there is power.

He probably noticed the power he could have and was motivated by it, not genuinely seeking truth or whatever it was, hence the lead-up to his faults.

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