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the astrology of exile

Oanney
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i wonder what the astrology of being (feeling) exiled (not only for political reasons)is. but not being able to return to your country.
what would the astrology be natal or transits?
i have natal Neptune Sagittarius on the IC, so i moved since i was little i changed countries 2 times, but now l feel exiled...i did accept it after 2 years...but i wonder.
What is your idea being exiled or feeling exiled astrologically has to do with?

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sophiab
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My sense is look to your natal moon, and, yes, also the IC and 4th house. Because the 'mother' country I think will always have a resonance with the natal moon, for better or worse. I have Sag on IC too and always feel more at home overseas. However, it is very different experience to choose to leave and return, compared with not being able to return. I think it leads to a form of grief that perhaps expresses as melancholia long term. So I would look to the moon, and also I might look at the chart of the country itself because people who have to leave are part of a bigger story related to the country, all woven together and needs to be untangled. 

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Oanney
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@sophiab not being able to return felt like dying 100 of times, the first 6 months l was very depressed (also full pandemic italian lockdown horror) i would have nightmare of not being able to ever go back and loosing everyone l love all at once :(, i can't return because of the insane housing prices and i would need to have a very high salary in order to be able to afford it...after 2 years of struggle l accepted it and l juts keep it in the back of my mind that someday l might be able to return. When l visit ...i feel like an outsider looking in and it hurts...but i try to let go. l also think maybe it has to do with the line that go trough a country the astro cartography? l have 0 lines running through Italy ... yes i could also look at Italy's chart and mine Smile

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(@elisa)
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@oanney 

Italy is a good country to live in, and plenty of places that are affordable to live and the economy correlates to that. Thankfully there is no more lockdown. That Capricorn stellium were dark dark days. So weird too, it is opposition of cancer yet we all stayed home. SO depressing too. The food in italy is always yummy so thats the big plus and plenty of nice people.

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Oanney
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@elisa yes l have to agree for some people Italy is a great country to live in but not so much for me, l live in Sicily which is much different then the north of Italy for example. It's 50 years behind as the Sicilians put it..depending what kind of things you want from life too.
At the beginning i had the feeling that every moment a bomb could go off, i tried to make my residency but after 6 months of despair l just gave up! the municipality would say you need an Italian bank account, the banks would say you need residency argh! ..long story short mission impossible! l cried a lot the first 6 months..i was lucky to stay at my in laws who are amazing! Sicily is beautiful, but it all felt hellish, unpredictable and unsafe on top of the harsh Italian rules which l was not used to... i was lets say illegal for a year here until i bought my house and l could make my residency. It felt awful! l don't know how much my moon has to do with it...i mean i don't always feel exiled. Living in Holland was the perfectly fine, except for the weather. i wanted warm, sea etc.
My Jupiter IC line runs through Holland (astrocartography)and it does feel as HOME on every level to me.
l have 0 lines running thorough Italy, i never felt a heart connection with the places.
l came here because my boyfriend is Sicilian ... he was ill and we could not go to Spain. He did warn me not to buy a house in Sicily, but i could not have imagined what he was talking about.
People have these idealistic ideas/dreams of a country sometimes....plus it can be an attraction of sorts indeed... <3

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(@elisa)
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@oanney 

thats so awesome you have great in laws, it really helps too with social interactions and with your boyfriend being sick for awhile, you have other support there which is a big help. Congratulations on buying that home in Sicily; dont know why its warned against by your boyfriend lol  Speaking of Holland, i am now reminded of that famous Actress Christina Applegate, who is a sagittarius sun in the 6th house with Gemini rising (you're gemini sun right?)  and she has a stellium in sagittarius with Pisces moon and her pisces moon is tied to another stellium in pisces lol

she ended up moving to holland and happily married to a foreigner; who has supported her through her own trials. Sadly she has multiple sclerosis what i last read.  But over the years she had cancer and it went into remission i think. 

I know another famous lady, who is Madonna and moved to the UK to marry her ex husband but it only lasted maybe less than 8 years? according to astrology charts online, they are writing she is a 12th house sun and stellium in 12th.  But their sources say 'conflicting and UNVERIFIED"   so i think rather she is Aquarius rising as Madonna said in one video online.  maybe her moon is in the 12th isntead of 1st. not sure really but she moved back to the USA.

Gwen Paltrow is another woman who married a foreigner, but she's gemini moon. Pisces rising.  Not sure if there's relevance to all that but alot of mutability going on with moving around countries, especially sagittarius. She has indeed MC sagittarius though.  Hers, like Madonna, she moved back to the USA i think since her marriage didnt last long.

anyway, it sounds like you are doing better in Italy and adjusting to life there. Maybe this feeling of exile goes away as you adjust and feel more welcomed. Good luck. ^^

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Oanney
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@elisa thanks Elisa i feel much better i rent out our house as a holiday house and i camp around or sleep at my in laws when cold so l can make a living here Smile
yes l have Gemini Sun conjunct Jupiter 10 house. Having good people close who support you is so important l could not have done without them and them without me.
l will explain why my boyfriend warned me to move here ..he has traveled the world a bit, he has also lived in Spain (Madrid) for 7 years but returned due to addiction.
The situation is harsh to the high rate of unemployment.
If you find work you (usually) wont get a contract so you wont have any rights, you will work 12 to 15 h a day with no free time maybe one day a week for 600 euro a month.You can be scammed used and abused and many are.
If you have a degree and can work let's say in a hospital as a police officer as a teacher (for the state) you will need to participate in contests and wait up to 5 years to get the jobs, if (the italian system)it does not work with a CV.
politicians do not invest where they should therefor the conditions are poor in all respects.
so people complain, flee or try to survive, which is mostly tourism and food but the taxes are ridiculously HIGH so imagine how great it is to be self employed :/
Then there is the bureaucracy that is insane here, things are not made easy for you, no they are are made it seems worse so you can get lost in a maze of papers that you can not comprehend. Without the help of a pro you have to pay you are nowhere.
They say we are in Africa here... laughing.
This is not to make it look bad this is how things are....it seeps in all areas of life from a street that remains broken for years one end, to the hours of waiting always, to the outdated everything ..There things combined frustrate and so yes my boyfriend does not find it a place where you can build a future.
We barely make a living with me renting our home camping around when its rented. Anyhow yesterday l waited for 11 hours at the ER with one of guests who fractured her pulse and needed a cast.
This was in a village not even in the big city, there l would have waited 3 days they said haha...anyhow i have adapted, l just laugh at it like the Sicilians do...

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sophiab
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@oanney Having Sun conjunct Gemini in 10th is so perfect for being a host for holiday makers and their holiday rentals. Meeting people from all over the world, talking, corresponding and connecting them with the local environment and culture. Have you thought to develop something further in the realm of tourism? Maybe as you get more time and experience in Sicily you can grow something substantial.

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Oanney
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@sophiab haha yes never thought of it like that but nice! l am an artist, by chance l discovered l loved hosting when i was in need l rented out a room in my house back in NL. In Sicily i knew i wanted to host again! everyone does it Smile l always loved tourism but my passion is art/ film/ music. l worked in television as a freelance editor Smile but l prefer the struggle and freedom of being independent or working with one trusted other.. Pluto and NN 2nd house in Libra. so yes hosting is great l love making my guests feel at home and feel good, it makes me super happy

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Oanney
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@elisa where are you from by the way Smile and have you been to italy yet?/
anyhow this is such great video of Palermo made as a commercial for a dutch racer Verstappen

then the sicilians made a parodie called the truth la verita <3 love it! gives you an idea

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 Elsa
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I would look at the 12th house. 

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Oanney
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@elsa well l don't know if it counts but my progresses Staurn (leo) moved from my natal 11 house to the 12 huose and l did read about feeling lonely...interesting

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 Elsa
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@oanney this transit dissolves support. You wind up with faith though.

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Oanney
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@elsa yes it felt like 0 support in so many areas of my life...good one to contemplate...this experience made me learn to rely even more on myself....Do you have Sicilian or just Italian roots?? anyhow you should visit Elsa Smile haha l have a house at sea you'd love it <3

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 Elsa
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@oanney I would love it! My roots are in the north. My family is from Bassano Del Grappa.

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Oanney
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@elsa ah ok Veneto region, Province of Vicenza Smile how cool! i think you should come one time and feel the vibe here, l hosted some people from Chicago this summer who had Sicilian roots so nice Smile

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 Elsa
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@oanney Sweet! Smile

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(@elisa)
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@oanney 

yeah i would look too to the 12th house and moon sign as well. Alot of Sagittarius and Pisces; travel in distant countries and escape. 

Pisces energy needs escape/running away if stressed out. Hides and runs and needs recharge. Sag is just adventurous. 

My sister has a stellium in Pisces and its not her sun sign but her Pisces is always wanting escape from hardship. She runs from it. I didnt realize it until i totally understood the reason and her chart explains it. Its not a wonder she wont deal with caretaking with her parents who are elderly, they are a hardship.  Me and the caretaker who is a Virgo with Libra moon discussed how having alot of earth gives alot of RESILIENCE to stick it out with the " dirty work."  Sigh. I totally understand alot of astrology.  But my sister has a great career and she sticks that out. Her Pisces stellium saves alot of children in her work. 

I now totally understand why my ex who was pisces sun/stellium there went alcoholism and drug addict and can't take hardship. Died homeless too sadly. so the energy is totally different. 

I'm a 12th house moon and i ran off to live in another country for almost three decades, well over two decades really. But i'm at home because i'm with a good and loving husband so if i didnt have a loving kind husband i would have been gone decades ago. (i had two abusive ex husbands in my teens/early twenties)  Even if i lived in a hostile poor country maybe somewhere in Africa in one of the poorest areas i'd still stay if i had a good loving husband who takes care of me.  It's not the country persay but a good loving marriage that keeps me whereever i am. It is my future and my destiny.  but in the beginning I was student (learning /sagittarius) in different countries then later evolved to make a home here.

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Oanney
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@elisa l have no planets in the 12 house my progressed saturn is there now for forever 😉 my moon is scorpio 3rd house, my moon is good i think. l dream of other places a kind of a longing ...with Neptune on the IC yes i think i am very sensitive to places therefor if i don't feel at home somewhere l just feel awful! so i would run back home! now i could not...very strange! i'm 'stuck in paradise' i 'd laugh about it. its like building yourself back up again after being crushed to 0 very pluto-esque

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(@capdb)
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I don't know the astrology behind it but I always felt exiled in my own country where I was born and went to Italy thinking somehow deep down I'd feel something different there -- connected or home or belonging (it's where 75% of my family comes from) but I felt worse. Very isolated, alone, cast out -- I still want to go back. I'd love to see Sicily! And was just thinking tonight maybe I should take my daughter, but I don't know what things are like now since the pandemic - I also would not have the expectations I put on it. 

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Oanney
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@capdb sorry to hear, i felt the same in Italy...the pandemic did not help either. Things changed a bit for the better let's say! l think Italians are not as open as one might think and that makes it hard to make friends for example... Although there is temper and fire people are not open. My Sicilian partner lived in Spain for 7 years and traveled the world a bit and he agreed that Italians are not so open to strangers...for example in Spain you meet people very easy.
Sicily is great to visit because of its nature and beauty! i feel people have this very wrong idea about places sometimes because sure when you visit you barely scratch the surface, we might have the movie dream idea...fantasy and it comes crashing down sometimes! not for everyone my brother loves Italy since forever he fits good here and comes for years like i have with Spain! Sometimes you just fit with the energy of a place the people, the everything....

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 nona
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I confirm Cap. stellium in 12th house. Pluto has been transiting. I moved to a tiny mountain village in Canada 18 years ago. And lived in exile. With a sociopath husband. I am resilient and I eventually ran.  But the isolation remained. The exile was so bad that the past couple years I have had to call my daughter over and ask her; "I used to have friends, a social life, and a houseful of people?" She would confirm she remembered the same. I have zero Leo moon so I have suffered so much from lack of love from others. The lonliness became solitude.

Pluto just crossed my 23Cap sun and 24Cap rising. And ... someone just spontaneously knocked on my door to visit. I had to actually laugh at this. True to astrology. People are dribbling into my life and my home. My life is opening back up. And I AM a different person. 

Now I'm kinda scared what Pluto will do in my first house, opposing my natal moon.. Aquarius smilie

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Oanney
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@nona i hope you get back to your old happy self soon,Leo moon needs some fun, sorry to hear :/ feeling exiled is awful i read loneliness changes the brain i believe it to be so....i fera loneliness the most Saturn Leo 11th house, although l enjoy my alone time i love hosting friends making diner, meet friend for a drink i dont do much of this now but hosting guets in my holidya home makes me again happy! pfff Pluto .....it might give you the push to change even more, the emotional push to change for the better! l would look at it this way! Smile

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 nona
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@oanney Thank you Oanney. I am creating fun. Not waiting for it!

 

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Oanney
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@nona oh great! riding the ups and downs Smile

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