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So I know what it's like to battle depression, but o. m. g.
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capek8
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Friday, July 24, 2020 - 11:40 pm
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As a person with natal Saturn conjunct sun square moon, I thought I’d mastered the power thru it thing, but mannnnn.  I’m in my Chiron return ( which I’ve been reading all this stuff that says it’s freeing and you can finally release the wound.. yada, yada) and have never felt this much ambient (pisces moon) emotional pain in my life, which is kinda saying something.  I’ve also had a Saturn transit square my 4th house mercury and venus since February (hey, hey Covid), but up until now that has manifested as isolation, restriction of movement/working to help my elderly parents adjust to this new dynamic.  It’s just astrology is one of the things that helps me cope, but it’s hard to see past this.  I know plenty of people are dealing with the Saturn/Pluto thing right now, which is clearly significant, but I feel like I’m suddenly getting wailed on by other things too.  Chiron is conjunct IC opposite Uranus and no amount of watching The Disney Channel is curing this.  Is anyone else navigating this sort of Chiron thing amidst everything else and how are you handling it?  

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Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 11:35 am
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I feel you. I am also struggling. I have been drinking a lot. I know that, ultimately, things do change and that change is the only constant in the universe.

The thing about Chiron I will say is, you never release the “wound”. Mythologically, the irony being Chiron, a famed healer, could not heal himself and so chose to relinquish his immortality. It’s the learning to live with it, or if you are lucky, use your pain to help heal others.

GL, friend. Remember to breathe deep.

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capek8
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Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 10:36 pm
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Hey Night Owl11!  Thank you for the kind wisdom.  It certainly is a rough time and I definitely understand the need for a night cap. wink

As for working with Chiron, I inadvertently began doing this in 2000 when I sort of became the family genealogist and in so doing, managed to find my grandfather’s birth family.  They’d been searching for him since 1914 – the year he was born and subsequently adopted.  Both parents died within 2 months of his birth and a month of each other, leaving 11 children to be parsed out to neighbors or anyone who would have them. Anyway it took five years to find his family, but now my mum has like a million first cousins.  It finally felt like a healing salve had been placed over that particular chapter.

Another manifestation of this has been my own transient existence, that up until a couple of years ago kept challenging me to define and redefine the idea of home.  As an artist I’ve tried to work with this by drawing a series of forts. Haha. Honestly, I am very lucky to have art as a lense with which to express many of my most difficult times in hopefully a healing way.  

I am very sorry to hear you are struggling, but please know you’re not alone and that we’re all gonna make it past this strange time, hopefully transformed for the wiser and with an insightful and elevated shift in values.

Breathing Deep! taurussmily_gif

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Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 1:41 pm
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((((capek8))))

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capek8
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Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 11:35 pm
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Hey Elsa!  Just wanted to thank you for setting up this wonderful site and all the amazing work you do. 🙂

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Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 2:05 pm
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I am more than a decade away from my Chiron Return, but someone close to me is going through this now. However, I have mulled over Chiron for quite a bit in effort to understand so that I can be supportive. You can read some of my hypotheses/thoughts here:

https://www.elsaelsa.com/forum…..our-wound/

Basically, with Chiron, the very thing that wounded us, is the thing/path to healing. When we can transcend that wound and face the fears that developed as a result, is when we find Chiron healing. For some this comes early in life, or perhaps during midlife crisis, and for these people their Chiron Return may be uneventful. While others face the battle at Chiron’s Return. Also, there are those who may only meet this challenge at their second Saturn Return. The point is, the experience is broad in its manifestation, and perhaps that is why there is not a lot written about it.

What I did that may help you, is to run a Chiron Return chart – similar to a Solar Return, except with Chiron i.e. date/time when Chiron is back at the same position of birth and in the current location of the individual. Since Chiron retrogrades, it’s possible you may have 3 Chiron Returns, each serving a unique purpose in the process. The Chiron Return chart helped me to understand how I could provide support by being the mirror, balance or other (Libra) that Chiron in Aries can use to action self-healing.

The transits are all part of the same concerto. So, it is likely that when you deal with transits of Saturn-Pluto in Capricorn, you in fact work on the 4th (Cancer territory). This ultimately has an impact on your Chiron conjunct IC aka 4th.

Please don’t despair and be patient with yourself.

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Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 11:20 pm
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Hi Osiris Wife! I just clicked on your link and realized I had already looked at that thread!  I think your idea is a fascinating one.  It has been a major struggle for me to handle my Libra MC conjunct Uranus opposite Chiron. As an artist being in the public sphere is traumatic and exhausting for me, but absolutely necessary for my line of work.  I recently got covered by a magazine and almost barfed during the photo shoot from nerves.  I don’t know if it’s the Chiron or what, but publicity literally makes ill.  Mostly cause I am acutely aware of the insane amount of manipulation that can occur in print media, or any media for that matter.  I don’t trust it or myself to know how I come across in an authentic way cos ironically, I cannot see myself accurately… thank you Neptune conjunct Jupiter opposite sun square moon.

I guess in keeping with your theory that the position opposite my chiron is a place of healing, I should really be letting go and not fret so much by relying more on a Uranian sense of egalitarianism and utter disregard for concerning myself with what other people think.  I’m really bad at that though.  

I’m going to think further on this as my sister had an 8th house Chiron conjunct her Taurus moon, opposite her Sun/Uranus conjunction.  It would be very interesting to try and break that down in terms of a healing opposition.

Do you have any feelings on Chiron conjunct Sun/Moon midpoint and how that would function in this equation?

I am also going to check into drawing up a Chiron return chart as you suggested.  It sounds as though it could be very useful.  I like the idea of viewing a transit as a concerto, implying a sweeping movement sounds very healing in and of itself.

And I’m trying thank you.fox_gif

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Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 11:31 pm
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I am reading Melanie Reinhardt’s book on Chiron right now, which is really shedding some light on this time.  Thanks so much again for these honest and insightful replies!

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Sunday, July 26, 2020 - 9:20 am
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capek8 said
Do you have any feelings on Chiron conjunct Sun/Moon midpoint and how that would function in this equation?  

This is a great question!

My take on Chiron=Sun/Moon, firstly regarding the wound: It is likely deeply embedded in the subconscious related to past relationships, specifically between a man or significant masculine energy (Sun/father) and Moon or key feminine energy (Moon/Mother) who would have had great influence on the native as a child. The impressionable child, as with all children, likely observed this relationship and in so doing it created an impression on the subconscious that was interpretation by the child as reality. With Chiron in Aries, it is possible the child could have “perceived” (this word is very important) his/her observations as an expression of relating (Libra). So, especially with Chiron in Aries, if there was anger, aggressive behavior, violence, or overt sexual expression (Mars) in the home (4th) afflicted by the father on the mother, then it’s possible unconscious fears of relationships (Libra/Venus) and maybe even denial of/or challenges in expressing Mars energy (Aries) could have developed a deep wound. To be crystal clear, I am not intimating that violence at home is the only interpretation, it is a possible manifestation as is sex – imagine if a child observes its father or a significant male figure(s) (Sun) and mother (Moon) in the throws of sexual intercourse which from a child’s perception can look like daddy is hurting mommy; the sounds and facial expressions alone speak volumes. Another possibility is if a child observing events at home (4th) that are perceived as the mother (Moon) lacking self-expression (Sun) or the mother’s sense of self is challenged. Or it could be challenges around themes of self-expressing (Sun) desires in attempt to get needs (Moon) fulfilled. Whatever the case, fast forward to adulthood and every time this inner child encounters relationships (Libra) that subconsciously jog those early childhood beliefs that are associated with trauma, then the Chiron wound surfaces.

The healing is also associated with Chiron=Sun/Moon midpoint: probably in the relationship(s) of Venus (Libra) and Mars (Aries), and the whole chart needs to be taken into consideration like what is happening with Saturn/10th house (balance of 4th). But more specifically, healing can perhaps be found through relating with another person whose characteristics are those of Chiron=Sun/Moon. Through this other person, a partner, balance can be achieved where the native can action (Aries) to heal his/her self-expression which possibly shines through creative or Venusian endeavors (Libra)….a creative professional and/or romantic partnership? To successfully unravel the Chiron wound, I think some of the early childhood beliefs that are held on a subconscious level about relationships, in this scenario, would need to be addressed (t.Nodes in Sagittarius/Gemini)….aka Mercury territory.

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Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - 12:57 pm
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WOW. Osiris Wife, that is a really helpful interpretation.  The latter description of a mother and children unable to express themselves is so on point.  My dad is wicked intractable when it comes to almost everything – NN, Sun, Juno, Venus, Mercury, and Saturn in Aquarius opp Moon conjunct Neptune in Virgo meanwhile mom is a Cancer with a mutible dominant chart.  They actually get along now cause my dad’s figured out how to hear other people soooo, when we were younger though, ugh.

I think healing through the arts, both my parent’s as career classical musicians, our family steeped in that music, and myself as an illustrator, has worked in chironic fashion to mitigate the most harmful parts of the wound.  I also wonder if this chiron return is working in a way to literally bring that healing home to roost even while it flares periodically.  What I mean is my parents whom I lived far away from since my mid-twenties recently moved to the same town as me, they’re older and need help raising my 15 year old nephew. Their arrival has clearly dislodged many past hurts, but has also allowed me to really see them for who they are and how they continue to work on their own issues.  Cue covid, and all of a sudden we are in each others lives 24/7 – hey hey Saturn, Pluto, and Chiron!

I always forget to think of aspects in such archetypal familial ways and am reminded by just how helpful that can be.  I really want to thank you for mentioning this.  I’m not sure of how chiron works in everyone’s lives, but for me it seems to arise amidst trauma yes, but also forgiveness and redemption of others and oneself.  You are right to bring up it’s appearance in relationships as most of my issues occur through relating.  Relating/isolating and the arts I guess.  Regarding Saturn, it is conjunct my sun in Taurus in the 5th.  I have venus conjunct mercury in the fourth, venus at 29 Aries and Mercury at 0 Taurus.  

Sorry for not responding sooner, life kind swooped in and demanded I deal with some stuff.  Thanks again for sharing your ideas on this, way better than rooting around in a subjective worm hole trying to find answers.  Haha!

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Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - 12:58 pm
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omg..  *mutable

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capek8
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Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - 1:01 pm
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double omg… *parents not parent’s

 

where is my brain?

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