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Nessus
And how it shows up depending on house, sign and aspect
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inanna
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Friday, April 21, 2017 - 5:27 am
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Hi Everyone and thanks for letting me join in! 

Looking at the chart of someone I've known for a long time, almost 20 years, I noticed a disturbing aspect and was wondering what other people thought.

This person has an exact grand trine of Sun, Moon and Nessus retrograde.

The Sun is in Aquarius in the eighth, Moon is Libra in the fourth (conjunct mars in virgo!) and the Nessus r is in the twelfth. Nessus r is also square Saturn in Pisces on the MC.

What do you make of a grand trine of the lights with Nessus r in the 12th house? 

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Friday, April 21, 2017 - 9:45 am
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Hi, inanna!

I don't have a clear idea of how Nessus works in action, in real life. Still don't, after reading what I know to be a terrific source -

http://www.zanestein.com/nessus.htm

The water houses all involve The Deeps in various ways, and Nessus matters seem to be deep and murky (life-and-death serious), at least. Grand trines can be talents taken for granted - a talented musician who rarely practices, e.g. Air signs for both who the person is, and their feeling nature (needs). Also, Rising sign is Cancer? If so, chart ruler - by the rule of thumb used most often - is Moon (in Libra, conjunct Virgo Mars - a dedicated loyal friend?).

Tell us what stands out for you, in your interactions over the years, with this person?

PS This link from the above link, is equally fascinating:

http://expreso.co.cr/centaurs/.....ption.html

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Friday, April 21, 2017 - 10:41 am
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Well! What a delicious bunch of reading - says Gemini Moon in 9th.

For anyone who enjoys a concise summary in the mix, this one is even timely (see Elsa's blog about Pluto stationing & turning retrograde yesterday, April 20 2017).

http://wiki.astro.com/astrowik...../en/Nessus

Nessus - dirtyied by circumstances, guilty of actions/ reactions motivated by deep feelings, etc. Dark, yet, better to acknowledge than to ignore.

Thanks, inanna! virgosmily_gif

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Friday, April 21, 2017 - 12:27 pm
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Hi Poppy 🙂 Thanks for your response! 

The rising sign in this chart is in Gemini conjunct north node. Ruler Mercury in Capricorn in the 7th conjuncts Venus and Juno and Dejanira!  

My take on this person is very dark and I am usually a happy Sag rising so I haven't wanted to see a lifelong friend as a dark person, but I have seen some clear patterns over time that were unignorable, and then I noticed the Nessus r placement.

While trines can be talents, they can also be like running around in a feedback loop, where it is easier to just repeat a pattern than to change. Likewise, an air trine, perhaps could be about rationalisations as much as clear thought.

But perhaps what makes this Nessus so dark is being retrograde in the 12th? Definitely "guilty of actions and reactions" most likely "motivated by feelings", as you said. 

The pattern I see is long term and repetitive abuse of power through romanticising, emotionally seducing and discarding women, while being completely unconscious of any culpability although he is married and in a position of trust. So, perhaps covert narcissism or love addiction, though I'm not a psychologist! I can only name the behaviour. 

With the Gemini Ascendant, great gift of gab and one face for his wife and another face where he tells his girlfriends bad things about his wife to make them feel superior. As I said, a very distasteful situation.

What got me really curious was how having both the Sun and Moon in a closed aspect, even a trine, could bring that third planet in as almost a "who a person is" kind of thing, even if they don't know it as it is hiding in their 12th, because of the 12th being the house of self undoing behaviours and all this hidden drama going on. Yes, from a purely intellectual exercise, it is one interesting chart!

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Friday, April 21, 2017 - 12:28 pm
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And thanks for the links. I'm going to go check them out now 🙂

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Friday, April 21, 2017 - 12:36 pm
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Depending on how big the orb is, the Nessus is at 3 Gemini and the ruler Mercury at 11 Capricorn conjunct a stellium of Venus at 11- Juno at 10 and Deianira at 7...that could be considered a quincunx.

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Friday, April 21, 2017 - 9:04 pm
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Oh good! I'm an 8th house person (sun= I am) with Nessus also there - Taurus. Coincidentally, Mars' transit was fuelling both my Sun & Nessus, recently. (Pluto turbo-powering my mars & sun, too. Very energized, when I just keep moving.)

New ideas, like learning new vocabulary words for ideas I grasped only in vague terms, until today. (Thanks!) The most interestesting, to me explanation was the last one, echoing something a sun -pluto- MC friend said in one of our late-night talks: everyone has dirty hands, one way or another. Some more than others, of course, but none of us are pristinely clean.

My recent conversation - with another friend who got blasted (verbally, emotionally) on the day of Pluto's station - found me encouraging non-retaliation, waiting for the eventual apology, and remembering that, yes, it was an over-the-top expression for (deep) feelings that haven't been named yet. And yes, it was hateful. But, I named other instances in which I experienced, or witnessed, or perpetrated... similar "crazy" behavior. (E.g., "When you asked, 'Have you lost your mind?!?' - the answer was 'yes'."  Disclaimer: we both knew I meant, not mentally ill, but momentarily unhinged.)

The difference between the above examples, and the person you've known for years, is that he has Nessus in 12th - mostly, and most of the time, unconscious.  There are no doubt other factors for how he's choosing to live his life... Beyond our charts, we decide how we use the components there.

Where's his Saturn (how he builds structure in his life, one brick/behavior at a time)?

*Anyone with insights that were hatched less recently than this morning?*

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Friday, April 21, 2017 - 9:07 pm
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inanna said
Depending on how big the orb is, the Nessus is at 3 Gemini and the ruler Mercury at 11 Capricorn conjunct a stellium of Venus at 11- Juno at 10 and Deianira at 7...that could be considered a quincunx.  

Most people use smaller orbs than that for quincunx. I'm in the "it depends" camp - but in this instance, I don't know.

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Saturday, April 22, 2017 - 2:08 pm
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Hey Poppy that's so interesting! Yes, we all have dirty hands AND "lose" our minds at times 😀 The things I learned about this person and then seeing this in the chart were kind of a step beyond being a bit dirty. Disappointing, let's call it.

I agree that it's an awfully large orb for a quincunx. The reason I mentioned it is that while wide, it is a stellium including both the ruler of the chart and Nessus' partner Dejaneira and right in the 7th house of partners, so it seems related.

His saturn is in early Pisces conjunct the MC, so square Nessus. I think Nessus is one of those factors that is dangerous when unconscious.

Love those little icons of planets you are using!!

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 - 5:37 am
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Poppy said

Nessus - dirtyied by circumstances, guilty of actions/ reactions motivated by deep feelings, etc. Dark, yet, better to acknowledge than to ignore.

I gotta agree on this one with you, Poppy. There was that guy stalking me for years, I couldn't get rid of him neither politely nor aggressively... found out my Nessus is exactly conjunct his Dejanira, and his Nessus is conjunct my Sun, though a bit wider (~1 degree. All that in Scorpio, my 12H and his 5H). He turned out to be a masochist too, and he gladly took my outbursts as punishment for his behaviour, which in turn motivated him to continueblackeye_gif I've become really paranoid then and sincerely felt like killing him embarassed

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 - 2:43 pm
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inanna, the icons for planets & signs come thanks to the smiley-face button under the bottom left corner of the compose-text box. What I would really really like is to know how to add a wider variety of them, such as those that WinterMoon uses in her/his (too rare!!) posts. ::sigh::

This topic has been on my mind - so very grateful, inanna, that you started it.

Since Uranus is applying toward conjunction to my 7th house (conversations with close friends, et al.) Mercury, my reading capacity is in fast mode - Saturn in 3rd appreciates this efficacy. I read some things about 12th house, yesterday. Particularly, that 12th house... the places for healing (spirital retreat, e.g. monastery where my sun-pluto- MC friend spent a few days, accompanied by his best male friend, right before he died; hospitals; prisons - when the person there hasn't found a better way to manage their ways of coping with their feelings**...). Healing, though understanding, and *owning* all of who we are.

A case in point. I have Pallas in my 12th house. Most of the time, to achieve the thinking function "synthesis" I have to take a long circuitous route - like a hero's quest, each & every time. And then, at random moments, the fog parts, and I grasp the big picture immediately, same as people for whom this is normal. I am determined (Juno & NNode are close companions to my Pallas) to get where I must - in my understanding (my chart is 9th house ruled, and weighted).

All of that is beside one of my main reasons for this reply. How are you feeling, now that you've had this insight into your longtime friend? You, yourself, your feelings? moon

That matters a lot - and I didn't see it mentioned, except glancingly, in the articles I found. Part of why we participate here, right? Astrology in real life, coversations in hopes of gaining greater understanding.

So, how are you feeling, through this discovery?

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 - 3:13 pm
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Startstatic97, kudos to you for exiting that situation without having to resort to killing him. shiny-chicken

After such an ugly experience, are there things you understand better about yourself, or humans collectively?

You have 12th house Sun, in Scorpio? (fog rolls in, while I scroll up, to reread your post) Ah, yes, you said: Nessus & Sun, 12th & scorpio.

Nevermind the twisted guy (may he be forever gone from your life). You know, I hope, that 12th house planets aren't doomed to seclusion (marginality) except if the person decides to stick there? Probably yes, because you joined the EE community... So, please consider telling me, how do you handle the monsters in the basement (btw, often they're as stupid as the monsters under the bed, in an old Calvin & Hobbes comic... "There are monsters under the bed," said Hobbes (teddy-tiger) smugly (he's Scorpio, I'm sure - sun&mercury, minimum). "Ask them." Calvin did ask, his voice quavering. "No, no monsters here," said one. And the other said, "Shut up, stupid!" heart

Further reading suggestions: Donald Westlakes "caper" novels (Dortmunder, I think, is the main character) - highly enjoyable, like seeing a good movie.

PS scorpio is my most-favorite sign (among my 12 favorites). wink

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Sunday, April 23, 2017 - 5:10 pm
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I've had my moments of seclusion, but there were few - probably because of the ascendant conj. Pluto in 1H and Jupiter speaking for the whole pack of my 12 house planets. As for the monsters in the basement, I feed and care for them in case I should unleash them on some unfortunate soul that deserves itwink I'll definitely check out the novels!

Well, it definitely made me think, because it made me show a side I didn't really know myself - I don't like generalizing a single person to a collective, but if it meant basics like what fear feels like, especially not very reasonable, then yes, I'd say it gave me a bit more understanding.

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Monday, April 24, 2017 - 12:05 am
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inanna said
it is a stellium including both the ruler of the chart and Nessus' partner Dejaneira and right in the 7th house of partners, so it seems related. His saturn is in early Pisces conjunct the MC, so square Nessus. I think Nessus is one of those factors that is dangerous when unconscious.

By itself, in the trine, I don't see Nessus doing this. Nessus in the square, and Dejanira in the 7th, I can see that.

max

['No restraint on Nessus in the square.']

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Monday, April 24, 2017 - 12:55 pm
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Hi Poppy, Thanks for asking how I am feeling! 🙂 tbh, all over the map. I love this person as a long time friend, but am also feeling such disappointment and anger. Not overwhelming, but persistent. I don't talk to him anymore, or well, he doesn't talk to me, so that was sad, but live is full of new and wonderful things right now too that it is important to fully experience rather than soaking myself in someone else's Nessus square 😉 But, yeah, it hurt and it felt good to say it!

See, I have nothing in my natal twelfth house. Right now the processed MC and transiting Saturn so it is all work.

It's interesting how your Pallas works for you and how aware of it you are. Mine is in the Fifth Taurus and I work things out through sitting on the sofa, painting, writing.  

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