This seems a good question to ask, with the Moon in Libra and a stellium in Sagittarius. Your friend has a really good partner. It’s obvious to everyone the couple is in love and has been for a number of years.
Now he or she is going crazy. Perhaps they have a Neptune or a Uranus transit and they want to ditch their love.
Are you going to say something?
Why or why not and please elaborate!
Yes, you say something.
Weddings are really touching. I am not married, and often critique the ridiculous pomp that often accompanies ceremonies of matrimony. Why the fuss over the dress, the stress over the table cloths? Why didn’t they just get married alone, save everyone the stress hastle and worry, and instead focus on the love between two people? Why not just sneak away to city hall? Save everyone time, money, stress etc.
The fact is that a marriage is a public ceremony because that ceremony is, in fact, the community recognizing the union between these two people, and vowing to uphold it. It is everyone coming together, family and friends, to acknowledge the love that exists between two people that is worthy of binding them, like family, like flesh and blood. I feel that, at every wedding I go to, it is a solemn sacrament in which all of the guests participate. It is not only the man and woman taking vows to each other, transforming them into husband and wife; the covenant also involves every member that stands to see the two married: they pledge a vow to support and help conduit the love between these people.
I think that when people want to leave their spouse, when they are talking to their friends about it, they are still in reconnaissance mode. It isn’t like they have decisively told their friend, “I am leaving him/her,” they are floating the idea to their trusted advisers and close friends, trying it on for size. It is that very moment when it is both most appropriate and most imperative that a friend trust their gut and say something if something needs saying.
Whether the doubting friend decides to listen is their choice. Whether the two are, in fact, headed that way and will get there eventually, in spite of intervention of friends. But friends help us to see things we can’t. Friends see our blind spots, and help us, like mirrors, to see our selves.
If you think your friend is missing something, something big, you should tell them so.
If you are good friends, then yes. That’s part of friendship IMO, speaking up when you see the person in trouble. They don’t have to listen, but at least you’ve given them food for thought, which should open up the issues they’re dealing with and help them make a considered decision, rather than one based in unbalanced emotion.
In my experience, many times when a person is going nuts about something, an outside perception can be the thing which brings them back into balance. And if you have information, for example, astrology, which they don’t have, and which might help them understand what it is they’re going through, then why would you not speak up?
If the person is just an acquaintance, however, I would mind my own business.
If it was me in the situation you describe, I would hope a friend would say something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUVGma3Q-wc&feature=player_embedded#
“You take two bodies and you twirl them into one/ their hearts and their bones/ and they won’t come undone”
I always tell my friends when they are not making sense and would hope they’d do the same for me.
Busybodies aside, I think people err on the side of caution more than otherwise.
I want my friend to have my back and if they call it wrong, I’ll tell ’em. Gives me a chance to outline my thinking / run it by someone who cares.
This assumes a certain quality of your friend. I have been given wrong advice (told to stay when best to go) once in my life but this was because the person did not have all the information. Er…I am a pretty good actress.
Mostly I have NOT been given good advice and suffered tremendously. I have seen others go through the same thing so definitely try to spare people pain whenever I can.
We’ve talked about this before. Some people feel it is important to learn the hard way. I’d rather learn the easy way (someone cluing me in) as it allow me to learn more overall.
I don’t think I have a friend who would not speak up, nor would I want one.
It depends on the situation. If the friend is going a little off the rails but I feel they’ll self-correct, I won’t say anything. If they’re doing something dire with long-term consequences and they seem oblivious to the fact that they’re royally screwing up, I’ll pipe in. Not that they’re in a mindset to listen at that point…
Yes, I am. And actually, since my closest friends know by now that I’m into astrology, they come to me for an advice when they feel they are acting out of the character, in a way or another. They are asking me if there’s a transit causing them to act the way they do.
Ha! Funny you shoud ask, considering my ex dumped me with no warning when Neptune started transiting his angles. No one told him he was nuts. Not that he asked (I don’t think). Not that he would have listened if anyone had, but still… It pissed his best, oldest friend off enough that they didn’t talk for a month.
Of course, it still rather chaps my ass that that circle was so damned pissed at him, yet after a month they all started hanging with him and the homewrecker and also dumped my ass.
Fuck ’em. *huff*
Unfortunately, my best Gem often lets me screw up without saying anything. She feels that, as stubborn as I am, it wouldn’t do any good to speak up. I disagree, though, because I know that no matter how unpleasant or disquieting it may be to hear, and no matter how much I may disagree, it would be something I’d ponder for some time before I made my final decision.
I’d speak up. I have no couth and very little tact and I have to say something or feel complicit in your fall. Guilt is not something I need in my life, maaan. So I point it out, sometimes more brusquely than necessary, true.
And I think that covers all my thoughts on this issue for now.
I divorced my husband of over a decade when Uranus transited my 7th house. Ends up I had things to work out with others that were also important to my evolution.
I’d advise the friend of the planetary energies but leave them to sort out their own affairs. Sometimes a radical energy like Uranus is just the ticket to make the needed changes in order to grow but then again though, I didn’t feel I was acting out of character or going crazy as have Uranus emphasized in my chart.
Came across trans. Neptune influence years later when seeing someone through “rose colored glasses” who was not really worthy of such admiration but I didn’t know that until I woke up! In that case, would have been nice to have understood the archetypes but doubt I would have listened anyway.
Re: Neptune transit from SaDiablo…
“Not that he would have listened if anyone had, but still”
Ha! Exactly what I just said regards my own natal Neptune opp. Venus.
At at time, trans. Neptune and Uranus moved through my 7th house during the same 5 year period or so and met up on my Moon in 8th. Can’t begin to describe that period.
Thank you Elsa! I’ve been popping in more and more frequently and find your blog more informative astrologically than some and you’re funny which my Mars in Gemini/Gemini rising adores 🙂
I’d say something, but I wouldn’t tell them what they should or shouldn’t do. I like to give my friends information and let them decide what to do with it. But yeah, absolutely, I’d say something and I’d try to get all the information to him or her in an accessible way. Whether or not his/her decision is influenced by my counsel, I at least would feel like I’d need to share what I can see.
yes. i couple it with ‘of course it’s your life and i’ll be here for you no matter what’.
except abusive relationships, i’m not built for that version of ‘no matter what’.
oh, as for the why…my friendships are such that my friends and i do a lot of “what do you think about that?” “input, please” “arrrgh help me out”
so what am i going to do, lie???? too irresponsible, me thinks
Hell yes, you say something. You ask if they’re insane and tell them if they’ve got something that’s putting a bug up their ass, you’ll help them sort it out.
Whether they listen or take you up on it or not is up to them, but…fuck yes, you say something.
ha ha luci! i paraphrase something i read on this blog:
“well, you’re cock-drunk. no, don’t you feign innocence with me. you like to get laid and that’s fine, just try and stop putting a square peg in a round hole, okay?”
Oh Yes….please say something….they may have wished you had and you will too, if you don’t. Obviously, if you are friends they will take that into account and know that you come at this from a good place….a place where you care for them and just want to give her an good clearing of the mind that may help them see the situation from a different angle. If after that, they decide to proceed on their own path….well, at least you know you tried.
I really, really love what krustallos said. I think it’s so great that if I ever get married I’d like to see some such sentiment on the wedding invitations to my family and friends.
Good friends should say something… but ultimately, the two parties in the relationship are the only ones who know what’s REALLY going on.
I mean, the very synastry suggests what might be happening beyond what’s seen by the innocent bystander. You could have a moon clashing with a moon making for a highly uncomfortable home life, whereas Venus and Mars are getting along smashingly when out and about. And that’s only the very tip of the iceberg.
I would say good loves can’t be messed up – that’s why they’re good.
Yes I would say something…I would give my outside opinion if I thought they werent seeing straight but if they choose differently despite what I said I would accept their decsion and support them as best I could.
If they ask, I tell ’em what I see happening. Otherwise, sticking my nose into other people’s business has consistently backfired on me, so I don’t.
This seems very dependent on the people involved. My guess is why this doesn’t work worth a s**t for me is because I have a very Scorpio-Plutonian chart and attract similar types. In general, we respond to others telling us what to do by ignoring them and doing what we were going to do in the first place. Learn from experience only I guess. Kinda dumb but there you go! ::::shrug:::: 🙂
Why is it my bussiness to say anything? Even if I say anything they won’t see it. The important thing is for them to see it, to realize it themselves. If I say anything and they are blind – my words will not open their eyes. Plus, you might loose a friend. It’s the same thing if your friend finds a boyfriend you really dislike – if they ask me what do I think, I lie and just say what they expect me to say. Also – they might need to learn something with that relashionship, you know? Even if it’s a bad one.
The same principle apllies here: they might need to know something important (like, for instance, how much they really love each other), trhough hurt and ignorance, that otherwise they would never know. Let them learn. Your words are not true knowledge.
(Sorry for the bad spelling.)
To each their own but once I had a friend. I had taken a horrible spill with a man, really it was the worst thing that ever happened to me a relationship in my life, bar none.
Sitting in the middle of the pain of the months long aftermath, my friend told me she that she saw it coming.
“Why didn’t you tell me?” I asked. “You mean you knew this?”
She shrugged and I never spoke to her again.
I say if you have a friend who has your back, keep ’em as close as you can. If you have a friend who does not have your back, you don’t have a friend.
This is really happening to me:
A couple of friend: ten years toghether…she’s a scorpio, he’s a pisces:
She’s a sun uranus: saturn is transiting her jupiter/venus/uranus
She claims he’s passive (he has always been)
I have thoughts on this, but there’s no explicit crise between the 2, and I do not say anything.
I have mercur pluto, and I tend to recognise when something is possible to collaps, plus I know enough astrology to see a real danger (he’s a capricorn venus)….
But they also have lots of neptune in their chart, so they might survive this time.
I could never suggest them to break up or stay toghether (libra) but I’ll try to stay by their side the best I can, with all the knowledge I have.
My point here is:
Are eventually my friends sabotating a good relationship or taking the chance to change their lifes for the better?
Who the hell am I to know?
“Are eventually my friends sabotaging a good relationship or taking the chance to change their lives for the better?
Who the hell am I to know?”
That’s a good question but I am talking about when you DO know or have a damned good idea. The situation you’re describing sounds very convoluted to me…
The situation is convoluted (it was a new word to me and I just translated it as “involuted” if that’s what you mean)
I guess if things get worst and I see a no retourn point by the way they act(:If one of them act with no respect for the other, and by doing this manifests the will to breake )
I’d step in and let them know what I see, in case they cannot see things clearly because they aree too involved and confused.
I’d help them focus on what is real
If I’m convinced somebody’s going off the deep end, yes, I say something. I may watch a while to see if they self-correct first, but in the end, I’d expect the same from them for me.
It depends if your friend is the sort to listen to you or not! If she did, I’d say something, but if she’s determined to be a blockhead, it won’t do any good to and will probably just piss her off.
Kind of like a conversation I had with my mom the other day: blunt, honest people can say all kinds of stuff to other blunt, honest people and not be bothered. But if you’re in denial and defensive about something, then those people will kick you in the crotch when you tell them the truth.
Er…if the other person is in denial/defensive.
I wouldn’t tell them. They’re not little children. I may lose the friendship, but that’s life.
Yes i would say something just once and i have. I had a friend who was texting her ex while married. Even though i wasnt a huge fan of her husband, i know her marriage was valueable.
Id want a friend to tell me if i was straying from the path.
I Should clarify that she was sexting, not just texting.