Speaking of deal breakers in relationship, my husband always says that you can’t turn blood on blood. To me, old friends are like blood.
Roots run deep. It’s always a mistake to bad mouth a person’s family even if the person speaks poorly about their family themselves. When you attack a person’s family, you attack them. When you attack and criticize their friends, you attack them as well. Same when you attack a person’s spouse.
When you go after a person’s inner circle, you pretty much force them to defend against you. If a person has to defend themselves, their family or their friends against you it’s generally a matter of time before you get the boot. Not that this stops people from doing this!
It is really pretty common someone will come into another person’s life and move to be alpha dog aka your new best friend. Some do this by undermining the people already in your life. This is foolish in the long run because when people grew up together or if they’ve been friends for a number of years, you can be sure there has been some currency exchanged.
By that I mean, favors have been done in both directions. The parties have been challenged in their relationship and seen it stand, “the test of time”. People who can’t stand the test of time don’t have any old friends.
If someone attacks your inner circle, it’s very bad sign. If you are someone who attacks a person’s inner circle, I’d say that’s a losing tactic.
Anyone else have experience with this?
I’d like to know a person who hasn’t had any experience with this
Two thoughts on this:
1.) My saying is “piss on your own trees”. Civility is required at all times. You don’t have to like someone I like, but please respect that they are in MY life, not yours.
2.) The above applies unless that person affects the other in a negative way that cannot be avoided.
Mr. Gemini is friends with a guy who is a comuplsive liar and a thief. This guy has stolen from him. He stole a CB radio that was marked definitively with connectors Mr. G took home from working at a company that has been out of business for ages. Then he lied and said he bought it at a store, and later lied again and changed his story to “your ex gave it to me”.
He ALSO stole stack of new car tires out of his basement before we lived together.
Mr. Gemini was balls to the wall PISSED in the beginning but began to soften for reasons only known to him. He’s now friendly with this chap again.
If you’re willing to forgive and forget, that’s fine. Keep this preson -away- from my house. I don’t want him anywhere NEAR it and I don’t want to associate with him in any way.
That is where I draw the line.
Ya, it’s happened and it always just amazes me. Just this last month a gal came to me, bad mouthing a friend of mine… ‘knowing’ that she was a friend of mine! It was all I could do to keep a straight face, and of course I went right to my friend and alerted her to this back-stabber. My friend asked me how she should confront this backstabber without letting on that I was the one that told her. I told her not to worry about it- maybe it will teach her a lesson and she won’t be stupid enough to bitch at me in the future.
It may be the exception and it may be rare, but yes you can turn blood on blood.
Doreen, I agree there is an exception to every rule BUT when someone does turn blood on blood, if you check 10, 15, 20 years down the road you might find the blood winds up back with the blood.
My sister attacked my husband. I was really mad at her. I don’t usually get mad and stay mad at the people that I love. But I was mad for quite a while. It was very upsetting to her, because I don’t hold grudges. I am not critical of her and I am very supportive. I usually let her have her way. But she crossed the line when she was insulting my husband.
flip, I am with you… as is my sister and my husband. Our spouses trump our family of origin but our spouses don’t bad mouth our blood!
Dude :)! What an absolute zinger this article is. Bravo!
I have long-term friends. Very long-term friends. The kind of friends that, if you cause a problem for, well, you and I (and perhaps half of Brooklyn, NY) are gonna have a problem.
As far as my family is concerned, only I can talk sh*t — true sh*t, but still sh*t– about them because I’ve lived with them. If you haven’t lived with my family, then STFU.
People do not know “who they are”
Hard days isn’t it?
The scapegoat has left the building.
Time of justice. :s
Yes, I agree (and also that there are exceptions to every rule — I have Libra)!
I have a situation where I dumped a friend in my inner circle (of lifetime — over 40-years– friends) because she messed up, wouldn’t admit her mess, lied about it and then tried to put the blame on another friend in the circle. The issue involved only the three of us, and I have total proof of her lie, but she is choosing to not fess up. The other friends understand the issue, but are still relating to her, and I’m not stopping them since they weren’t directly involved. I’m not one to say “if you see her I won’t see you”. Because I feel it’s only a matter of time until she spins out of control there, too. I also must add: she’s the “newest” person in the circle…. old blood trumps usually trumps new blood, too.
I’ll fess up that I have been feeling a little (ok, a lot) nasty lately and have really wanted to bad mouth everyone and everything, but I realize it is me and not them, so I’ve just sort of shut down for awhile. I try to stand by the old cliche, if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. And even when it is them, I am not communicating very effectively lately and feel like I’m just digging a bigger hole.
Edit of my above comment “old blood usually trumps new blood, too.”
nicely said. i needed this insight.
Timely but Man…to late for me!..as usual!
This crap goes on in my family. My father says the nastiest things about my brother’s wife – never to him of course. He says it to me and I have to tell him to shut up and threaten to leave if he doesn’t.
If I love you, you’re blood….that goes for a friend or a family member. The circle is small; I’ll defend it with my life.
I have experienced this over and over–being the “blood” that new people want to step over to get to my closest girlfriend, who is like a sister to me. She is a really good woman–I can’t blame them for wanting to get closer to her. They don’t realize that their behaviour is transparent and she will truncate a relationship with a person who’s mean to me, because (a) I am not a mean person and (b) I am forever extending a hand to in-comers. Seriously WTF? You’ve been spotted…
And another thing: what a lameass way to make friends–by crapping on the person they want to befriend’s nearest and dearest. Hellloooooo, are you for real?
I have seen People in a Group sometimes Use the Place where they are sit on that Group to make Wrong things expecting the Group help them do the wrong Thing and it Often Works!!!
So the affect friendship and good feelings !!!
Until a Brilliant person puts things on its
Doing Wrong Things is Wrong and we should care about having Brilliant Persons Near !!!
Really good post Elsa, especially what you said about forcing the person to defend. I am so loyal, anyone who doesn’t realize that will find out the hard way. I remember just after my ex and I split he said all sorts of nasty things about a lady I know, sort of a casual acquaintance, but still a friend. He was shouting at me, and told me what he thought her husband should do with her, etc. I was actually shocked down deep, and the thing was, he was making it all up, it was off the top of his head. So he not only gained nothing, he sunk–really, really stupid. What an ass.
I was so deeply offended at how he had totally misread my friend and her situation–but honestly it was just further proof that I could not trust him. And come on, I’m a Scorpio–I just don’t forget. Not that he even knows I’m a Scorpio, lol.
reminds me of the springsteen song, highway patrolman: me an’ frankie laughin’ and drinkin’; nothin’ feels better than blood on blood…
I’ve had the odd reversal of this scenario where I’m the new person and the “old blood” badmouths my friend to me or to others and I hear about it. what to do then? ugh.
(of course I don’t participate in the badmouthing, and defend the person, carefully…)
satori I’ve witnessed that too and it is awful.
Really good post, Elsa, w/your usual laser-like insight.
I’ve been in both positions as well, where someone is badmouthing blood to me or I’m the ‘new’ person that’s getting bad-mouthed by someone from the group — it’s all ugly either way and I’ve found it’s best to not even engage the toxic ones — the Universe has its own way of taking care of them.
So true – blood is blood, and even if they’re not speaking, they will at some time, so it’s best not to even go there.
We are organizing a family reunion, you should hear the stuff I’m hearing! “Is so-and-so going to be there, ‘coz if they are, I’m not going, you know what they did to me?” But it’s all water off a duck’s back, ‘coz I’m not getting involved in anyone else’s drama!
My grandmother constantly bad mouths my Mum to me. I love my grandmum, but I always defend my Mum partly I think because my Mum and I are so alike, but my grandmum and I are complete opposites. But my grandmum also bad mouths me to my Mum…. so there’s a lot of tension in the family. Or Blood turning on Blood.
Yeah, Bubbles but what would happen if someone started telling your grandmother your mother sucked. Then she’d probably side with your mother..
I’m glad to see this thread again. I had to end a friendship over this, earlier this year. She made incredibly derogatory remarks about my fiance. That ended it.
Thank you Elsa, Good advice for me, I don’t have many old friends I’ve realized. THough I may have them on facebook… We don’t get together. I want to reverse that.
My girlfriends Dad… I should bite my tongue, stand on one foot, try focusing on what I like & love about him.
Just learning to live w close n not so close family. Then again I can get pretty crabby-cranky. Especially the 7th house Scorpio mr sag has that I have to be careful about.
His family has daughters sitting up straight to listen to the family related discussions. Haven’t figured that one yet.
Ewww…yes! My cousin who is really more of a brother since I grew up in his house met this girl and from day one she was hideous to me. Apparently she was a shit to others in my family but I never witnessed it. Anyways…they got married and I was not invited to the wedding. Everyone else in my family was, not me. I was always tolerant/pleasant towards this girl and ignored her shitty attitude towards me so it’s not like I fed in to the b.s. My cousin started treated me disrespectfully b/c of this troll and as a result I no longer have a relationship with my cousin. What a bunch of crap!!
Yeap after what happened with my mother and I, my so-called friend kept on talking bad about her. I’m the only one allowed to talk smack about her because well she gave me life and put us both in a messed up situation. Forgiven and all my mother is now but not forgotten. As for the friend their dropped. In fact I’ve had to drop a few people for a while because they talked smack about the Virgo after an incident, no domestic violence. And so-called friends bad mouthing another friend, it wasn’t cute and they got dropped too. They were jealous of the friendship to be honest.
Even I’ve done it and have been guilty of it but this is when people are asking for my advice, other than that I keep my trap shut.
I am a loner 90% of the time, but i have a lot of friends, most of which are from school(im 27 now) so it does feel nice to have old friends. They have supported me through some of the toughest times in my life. They came along to my band’s gigs, all the way in the city! Even when there was no one else there to watch us rock out, my mates still cheered us on.
My friends being their during those times make me feel i have won the lottery!
I know some friends of mine out there do not like my loner streak & are very jealous of the loyalty that my other mates show me. Some people ‘get me’ & some dont.The ones that don’t (& bitch behind my back) its very easy to tell who they are when im hanging out with them. & im sure the friends that do understand me, defend me at every chance they get. So in my case sometimes, its: ‘blood trying to turn – blood on blood’.
Pluto in Scorpio in the 1st house & my Virgo moon in the 12th house has always steered me towards solitude & sanctuary. Its where i regenerate. Regardless of my social life!
Some people find that weird…
I get it 😉
& my loyal mates…i would give my life & blood for!!!!! No questions asked!!
Even if they said a nasty thing or 2 about me… so what…!!! words are just words.
Their loving actions in the past speak for themselves 🙂
My family though…………!!!
I dont even want to go there… :-/
My old friends are definitely like my family.
“…when people grew up together or have been friends for a number of years, you can rest assured there has been some currency exchanged.”
Yes, they have currency. Absolutely.
I was attacked by my cousins BFF, needless to say I don’t speak to my cousin anymore, and her and her BFF are still friends. It’s become apparent that my family is in the business of bad mouthing. I’m an only child so my friends have always been more like family to me. I’m looking forward to building friendships that stand the test of time. I’m looking forward to having a core group of really close friends.
It depends on the situation to me.
If I rag on my family, I actually do not expect you to treat them like they are my sacred cow and beloveds. If I say bad things about them, I know it better than you do and won’t hold it against you because you think bad things too. Hell, I especially won’t if you’ve experienced them doing bad behavior. I’m not going to be all, “You can’t say bad things about my mommy, only I can!” How hypocritical. I know what she’s like and she has her good and bad points, but nobody’s helped by lying about it. And it’s not so much “being attacked” so much as acknowledging that sometimes my mom smothers or my aunt is frosty cold or my cousins ignore me, and that’s bad. Duh. Helps to get it out in the open, rather than shoving it under the rug.
With some people, yeah, you have to be careful though. Like, they know that their spouse is an abusive ass, but they refuse to leave him, so you have to watch it. Understandable there.
I have observed problem marriages where one spouse places their birth origin unit above the family they have created to the point of it harming the family they have spawned. Two in particular I can think of now were the power players in the origin family. I believe it is a matter of maintaining that position of control. Just an opinion.
On the flip side, there are many many inlaws who seek to control their mate’s family of origin. Their mate supports them and is forced to make his/her family of origin the enemy. I have seen this happen time and time again as the inlaw tries to control the origin family with the passing of the origin family parents. Must be a past life throwback to dynasty rule or something??
I’ve found this to be true as well and lived by it. My family was large. No matter our disagreements, we were always steadfast for each other. I’m the same with friends.
I’ve had similar situation as Satori, where I am the new person and someone in the ‘old blood circle’ wants to alert me to someone in their circle etc. All that does is make me wary of the person who said it, no matter how minor. I then have to watch to see if it’s true without saying anything to anyone. It’s tense. Some new circles I’ve had to avoid for this reason. And usually it’s for the best. I’ve got Venus in Libra. I don’t care to be part of negative cliques or cesspools of hating on others.
I’ve also had a childhood friend – my best friend – remain close to someone from childhood I cannot abide. Likewise I’m friends with someone else from those days which my best friend doesn’t trust and doesn’t care for. It’s an interesting situation but it makes me feel really good because we all (as far as know) respect each others’ friendships and don’t tread on them. We don’t discuss them. Makes it easy.
Reminds me of the old saying, “Nobody hurts my sister but me!”.
Just today, a friend called me and started bringing up another friend’s name that I am not getting along with, I feel she is trying to find out what I think and feel so she can go back and tell her, and I dont say anything about the girl at all. She brings up the girls name on 3 different times, and even mentioned that when we get together, she should also come, too, and I didnt say anything..wanted to but didnt, just in case she would go back and tell her. Either way, its time I made a new set of friends…
Had similar conversation with 25 year old coworker who believes she has a right to “defend her sister against her husband. My response: don’t be surprised when you’re no longer welcome in your sisters house because they sleep together.
Ha ha ha. You’re probably right. 🙂
Boy is this the truth. I can be pissed at them but nobody else better say a word. My mother drives me INSANE but better not talk shit about her haha….
Blood is thicker than water every single time.
Last summer, I found out my recent ex sister in law had been talking smack about my youngest son for years. I considered her my my best friend. He’s 16 and an excellent young man. She said to a mutual friend
1. he had a funny lower half of his face (wow, he’s still growing into his body)
2. why couldn’t I get him to dress in sonething but Wal-Mart clothes (he wasn’t into what his clothes looked like or even matched). He didn’t ask for designer sneakers until he was 15 and I’m a single mom on a limited income not a wife whose husband, my brother, gave her unlimited spending funds because he was very successful.
3. Why couldn’t I get him to cut his hair. I don’t care about his hair length. I care if he’s happy, healthy, respectful, empathic, etc.
I could go on and on.
I was tempted to confront get but I knew she would just deny it and it would just feed her need for drama. And believe me, as a full-blooded Italian, I wanted to slit her throat. You can talk smack about me but do not even think of talking about my children.
So when she cheated on my brother and left him for another man, my brother came to me for my lawyer. I went with him to the meetings and she only ended up with $2,000 of spousal support for a year. He got the house the cars his daughter his pension everything.
Sometimes you just have to watch people hang themselves and let Karma take care of a bitch.
Bonded against a common enemy can be a great mender of tears in the familial fabric. Even the evil one holds a place!
Yes, when I was a naive 11 year old, in Sixth grade, I criticized a girl’s friend. And the next day…..ice. Boom! She never spoke to me again. She was cordial when she had to, but I don’t see it as a purposeful mistake, on my part. I was really, really, young.
Whatever. Life is a never-ending learning experience.
ST’s caregivers have, at times, tried to make inroads on our marriage. I felt pushed out and didn’t appreciate it. He has since been more aware of this and I’ve made it clear to his caregivers that I won’t allow this.
Sometimes, however, they do text him and badmouth me while scolding him. He does not tolerate anyone talking trash about his wife. I just wish he would speak up more often and tell them this is not okay.
Well my challenge is first,my mother and father hated each other,divorced when I was 2,and battled for rest of their life.Both families battle amongst each other,(no loyalty) and I’m the scapegoat/black sheep.This occurred cuz I spoke up about sexual n physical abuse,and Mum lied to rest of family,and kicked me out of home at 14.Uncle told me to shut up.Oh after being kidnapped when I was 8 to Canada,I was forbidden to contact Dad,till I was 14.I was now dealing w new Scorpio red headed Stepmother,and her daughter,so they didn’t want me,40 yrs later,still a stalemate,even w mum passed on now.I have Sun/Venus Cancer4thH opposite Saturn in 10th house(7/5/60).I am thinking of taking this to court,after unbelievable treat.ent.Father is millionaire in Calif.Any suggestions?
It’s like stepfamily thinking they can crap on blood relatives/children.
Interesting post. I grew up listening to my own mother bad mouth me/put me down to my friends and to my former husband; sometimes this was done in front of, other times I was told about it by them. She even wrote letters addressed to my former husband when we were still together, as well as to my three kids, where she would write snide little remarks about me. Of course, I was meant to read them. They were designed to upset and hurt me.
I have always known she never wanted me because she told me that so many times growing up. Survival skills meant I learnt to tune out to her ways.
She is now out of my life as is the lousy ex. My kids are still in and so are many of those same school friends from primary to secondary school that she bad mouthed to about me! I think that says it rather well.
In sport, craft groups, social settings and in the workplace; whenever this happens to me, I put those early survival skills to good use.
PS: this blog is always interesting and I love that it pokes into so many corners to make you think that little bit deeper.
I appreciate here that I learn that other people suffer, too. Also mostly because of their families. Nevertheless most people put blood ties above any other ties? I really can’t understand that.