Vicious Women And The 80/20 Rule

scorpio moon book coverIf you’ve read this blog awhile, you know I think in terms of the 80/20 rule, aka the Pareto Principle which states that thing naturally fall in groups with an 80/20 split.  As an example I’ve written, if you are happy with your partner 80% of the time, this is a very good sign. If you’re not happy 80% of the time, you are probably unhappy 80% of the time. This predicts which relationships will last.

I agree with my husband 80% of the time. But last night he made a statement that floored me. He said he thought that 80% of women were vicious. WHAAAT?

In my experience, 20% of women were vicious. This did not change his mind. No one changes his mind about anything, but this really got me thinking.

First, when I look at the women he has known over the course of his life, they are definitely vicious. Based on this I can see where he gets his opinion. He’s not going to substitute his firsthand experience for anything, but he’s not going on just his experience.  While he hasn’t known that many women, he has know a lot of men. He says most of their women were also vicious.

I’ve not had this experience at all. I suggested that perhaps his experience was skewed in that his life has been so extreme.

Do Special Forces soldiers attract vicious women?
What about men with their Moon in Scorpio?
He said he thought I was naive on this front and it left me sort of wondering.

It is not that I don’t know there are vicious women out there because I certainly do. We meet them on this blog now and then but it’s not that frequent. Are 80% of the women who read her, vicious?

It doesn’t seem this way to me. But I can think of some nuance that could explain my experience and my husband is too smart to just write off something he says, so I am asking:

What percentage of women are vicious? Where is your Moon?

 

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Comments

Vicious Women And The 80/20 Rule — 92 Comments

  1. My moon is in Leo, and I can’t imagine 80% females being viscius…but I think a lot of females lack insight into their own behaviour especially towards men. I am 100% feminist , but there is a lot of demeaning treatment of men in sosiaty by females.
    Unfortunatly there are a lot of vicsus and sneeky people of both genders too, they treat people like crap pushing, manipulating ,leaching out all the energy of other people……just because they can

  2. I have no Libra but I still voted I Can’t Decide. Most women I know are decent people. That’s just my experience – I certainly know some major bitches as well. But they are not the norm in my life.
    (Scorpio Moon).

  3. I think they do behave this way and more so in packs than individually. I don’t trust women, I don’t trust men either. I know my kind and how they treat others, whether they’re like that individualy as well, I cannot say. I don’t take the time to get to know each person. I have seen decent women turn into something horrible when they are around others.

  4. You might have something with the scorpio moon angle. I was stunned when I read this, until you mentioned scorp moon, and I realised that I’ve been wondering for most of my life why so many of the men I’ve dated have ended up being vicious with me in some way (not physically, but emotionally). And I’m a kind and generous person with the men I get involved with. So it may well be their response to the Scorpio moon radiation. Instead of transformation you get torture.

  5. If even 20% of women are vicious, they are very secretive about it. I do have a Libra moon, but I don’t think that it affects my perception negatively. I’m always looking for the beauty in others; especially in women.

    In my experience, I’ve found a great many men to be either completely inept emotional morons; or downright amoral and RUTHLESS. I’ve never heard of any woman in recent history building a bomb, declaring war on a country or government, or raping anybody. Men can be downright frightening, and if anything; 80% of men are vicious or harbour aggressive (negative) emotions toward others.

    Thankfully, ruthless women are in the minority, fewer than 20%, I believe.

  6. Maybe 100% of women are vicious 20% of the time. I don’t really think that’s it exactly but I do think most of us have the capacity to behave viciously when pushed. Some just don’t really need to be pushed.

  7. My moon’s in Leo and I agree with Elsa that 20% of women are vicious.

    iathina85, totally agree, most people’s viciousness come out of their ignorance.

    I’m more inclined to think 80% of people are ignorant 🙂 like most of us have our blind spots and aren’t as self-aware as we think we are, which causes ourselves pain (and causes us to inflict pain on others unintentionally).

  8. It might interest you to know that he identified, Madonna and Cher as vicious women. Madonna, probably some agree. Cher for what (he says) she did to Sonny. He doesn’t like her “turn back time” song very much to say the least. He thinks she fucked him up and you can’t turn back time.

    He says I am not vicious, he considers this rare.

    I know I am not vicious, I cited the worst thing I ever did to a man in my life and it is laughable.

  9. I think 20% of women are vicious, but I maybe preaching to the choir here. As for me, I can be vicious when it concerns my kids. The vicious women I have come across in my life seem to get vicious when it comes to men and money and that would probably be 80% of their time.

  10. I voted Libra and can’t decide,lol. My husband would agree with your’s. He often tells me this. I certainly have come across vicious women and boy they are bitches,lol, and of course it always has to do with a man, a man they used to have,a man they want, or a man they don’t want but they don’t want anyone else to have either.

    I know I can be vicious when the time calls for it :).

  11. Yes, I think it is possible he is right that is why I asked this. A vicious women may not become vicious until or unless she crossed (real or imagined).

    What would tell a vicious woman would be what a regular woman does when crossed and crossed by her definition of course.

  12. I don’t think that’s how the Pareto Principle works. More like:

    80% of women are vicious 20% of the time.
    20% of women are vicious 80% of the time.

    • This resonates with me too, as a general rule. Although I also believe ‘vicious’ is just not even in some women’s repertoire. It’s certainly not in mine.

  13. I think 20 percent is a sensible guess, and besides, even at 20 percent, that’s a lotta women.

    Leo moon. I’m not vicious, but I do freeze and amputate. One person’s defense tactic is another person’s viciousness. *shrug* I also see the logic in Lupa’s point…

    And like I always say, most of the bitches I know are men. 😉

  14. Yes, I definitely had dinner with one last night!
    I think we all have the ability to be viscious if necessary. I know I do. I also know that I do everything in my power to avoid getting to that point. Push me once, twice, even three or four times, and I will adjust, try to sidestep, but eventually there comes a point where if you push too much, you will feel the backside of my hand (no, not literally). Funny, thats the point where everyone else calls “foul”, the point where I have tried to avoid. I hate bullies, was bullied for a good part of my life. I will no longer stand for it, if that makes me “bad”, so be it.

  15. Charles, I know. The soldier is a mathematician to the extreme. He ties the 80/20 rule to the natural logarithm… and I used to write about this but was challenged and since I am not the math brain… I leave that out now.

    In whatever case, he has exhausted all the math there is to know on the planet and began developing his own theories about 15 years.

    He came up with something new a dozen years ago and has puzzled over it since… until one day about 18 months ago he sat on the couch and proved his theory.

    Yeah, he did and while he does not understand this (and I can’t explain it either) he also proved astrology.

    As for publishing, he is not interested. He said if they had a math contest for some an ice cream cone, he would go down there and show him is math but since they don’t – fuck ’em. 🙂

    If you are interested in this, you can search mathematics on this blog because it’s there somewhere.

    That aside, he stands by his 80% and has no doubt whatsoever he is right.

    “For example, take Dora,” he said.
    “She’s vicious,” I said. (and she is)
    He just grinned.

    Anyway, we see things split 80/20 all the time. It’s a topic around here so perhaps I have the wrong term… I can’t say, Natural Logarithm, I can’t say 80/20 and I can’t say Pareto but whatever this nameless thing is, we see it all the time.

    I do think it is possible he is right, if for no other reason then he is so very rarely wrong. he just doesn’t pop off with shit like this for the hell of it – ever.

  16. Charles version sounds realistic…but I’d add that it is also true for men as well. There certainly are many vicious men around, and in some ways they can be more cruel than women.

  17. “Bloody Mary, bathed in virgin’s blood, that woman who got the teenage girl to commit suicide…what the hell are they talking about, women aren’t vicious? The hell they’re not!”

    He’s debating y’all.

    Come to think of it, my ex the AMF thought the same thing. The soldier said it was women saying women aren’t vicious. ‘Ask men,” he said. “They know damned well how vicious women are.”

  18. I don’t think I’d use the word “vicious”… I’d use the words “manipulative” and “calculating” more. I’d say “vicious” applies to about 20% of women. 99% of the time I’m not vicious but there’s that tiny 1% that can verbally cut like a knife.

  19. Maybe a 60/40 split? With 60% vicious? I think that maybe that moon in scorpio does ring a loud bell to various vicious types.

    Moon in virgo/1st house/conjunct blah blah blah. I have known both I guess..

  20. And also want to say that I don’t consider myself vicious. Even when people come at me, I still try to keep it clean, not bring up the thing that would hurt them or whatever. I mean, I always know what to say that could hurt the most, can spot weakness, but I rarely say it. (I think Mars in Cancer has something to do with this)

  21. Firstly I wish you all SERENITY in this year. Sorry I am late but I didn’t have the chance to connect with you until now.

    I didn’t vote. 80% is too much, 20% not enough. There are certainly lots of vicious women, as well as men among us. However, I think we all are vicious now and then to a certain degree. I usually catch myself and feel very guilty. In my opinion, man and woman are soooo different…. Elsa, this is a difficult subject.

  22. Oh, Ana, I misread your question. He says that he is a vicious man. That he does not try to hurt anyone but if you mess with him / bother him… As for men in general, I will ask in the tub tonight. 🙂

  23. “I’d say 20% of men are vicious. Those are the out and and out criminals out there. Let’s see. You got 80% and at least 50% of men are wimps so yeah. I’d say about 20% of men are vicious types.”

  24. I think we like polls because they attempt to make sense of this crazy world. But in the end, isn’t all that matters our individual experience of things? We try to find an absolute number, something to agree on, but maybe it’s more constructive and less frustrating in some cases to not argue about it when we disagree and say “my experience is different from your’s — who am I to say either one of us is right or wrong?”

    Then again, I’ve got transiting Neptune approaching conjunction to my Moon, opposing my Sun and Pluto, so I have no idea what I think anymore… sigh.

  25. In my personal experience, I feel that 20% are vicious 80% of the time. All my friendships with women are supportive. I have had vicious women as friends in the past and have had to amputate them. Even after encountering some vicious women, I still feel that most women are not vicious. My mother is the same way. She has a friend who is very charming and girly, and I LOVE her! Mom said that everyone in her class hated this girl because she was always dressing sexy but tasteful. At the time, this was not the norm.

    Because of the 20% that are vicious 80% of the time, 80% are vicious 20% of the time to defend themselves against the 20% who are vicious.

    Leo Moon

  26. Moon in Aries here. I voted 20%, but I wish there was a choice that said, “I DON’T have Libra and I can’t decide,” because that’s how I feel! I honestly don’t know, but given the choices, I can’t see it being 80%. That does not resonate with me at all.

  27. Moon in Capricorn… all people have their shadow and if they haven’t integrated it, if they haven’t become self-aware they can go into a state of eclipse and act very poorly. I don’t think it is particularly a male or female attribute, although men have had the centuries of entitlement. Both genders can and do step on others.

  28. I voted eighty percent. And I have a Scorpio moon.

    But in part I am thinking like a guy. A guy normally would take a punch in the stomach, a fistfight, a throwdown, and not think that was vicious. That’s just aggression, no big deal, you’re mad.

    But when women get mad, or defend themselves, they do it by stealth. They’re not going to punch a guy in the stomach. They’re going to think very hard about what really hurts, personally, and do that. They’re going to plan their attack. They’re really going to *think* about how to win that fight. Women are strategists by nature, and that can be vicious.

  29. I voted Libra. I think von summed up why for me. That and I’m not sure we’re using the same definition of vicious.

    I don’t see as much viciousness as manipulation, and there are a lot, a lot, a lot of manipulative women out there. But I’d say out of everyone, men and women, 20% are vicious [meaning amorally, destructively selfish and willing to do whatever it takes so they come out on top in every encounter (i.e. go for the low blow over petty offenses)].

    Aquarius moon that has aspects. 😉

  30. i think a lot of it may be that a lot of men really don’t understand women, and consider them vicious when the issue is likely more communication.
    i’ve met some doozies of vicious women, but there’s not that many of them. and they stand out in a crowd. problem is they’re often really charming and can get flocks of other women to follow them around and get them to do their dirty work… and the other girls aren’t necessarily vicious… they just want to be in the right group… and, most tellingly, don’t think too much about the consequences of their actions.
    moon in aquarius. trine pluto in libra.

    so, well, that might explain some of my perspective there… the aquarius…

    when i get that mad, i leave. and i do mean, gone. amputation. but i don’t try to hurt the other person. unless they get in my way on the rush to the door and i have to push them aside.

  31. What is the definition of vicious? I think that’s what it boils down to. I do not think that I am vicious at all. But I do believe in both physics (for every action, their is an opposite and equal reaction), and I believe in consequences. My child’s father spent many years telling everyone who had ears that I am vicious. Like another Leo moon said, I will freeze and amputate if necessary. And my moon is aspected by Neptune so people get a whole lot of chances before I can recognize that they are just bad news. I refuse to have bed news people around me. Life is hard enough, why add people who sit and dream up ways to hurt and destroy you?

    That said, I almost always know exactly what words to say to totally destroy someone. My moon connects to Mercury and Uranus as well as Neptune, and Mercury is trine Pluto which is squared my Scorpio ascendent. But even though I know, I have never done it. A vicious woman would. Fequently.

  32. I work in an institution that is made of 90% women. They are divided in three categories: those that are married to successful men (they usually dress in labels that everyone knows they can’t afford WITH THEIR OWN SALARY), those wishing and hoping to marry rich men (or at least looking for men to support them) and the women that are modest in outfit, husband, and everything else (you can only imagine they don’t like the first category at all).
    I am part of the category ‘love is just not in my cards this life around” so I was free to befriend women from all categories and one thing I got: personal and professional ambition are rare among these women (their ambition relates to husband, men, making slaves out of men, etc.), many have possibilities to climb the professional ladder (especially with the rich husband’s help!) and they simply refuse – THIS I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND!
    I also noticed a specific mentality: if a man is worth being taken into consideration, he has to prove humility in front of them, to be a hunter constantly putting up with their moods, they never meet the flirting game half way (too much pride, ego). If the man does not crawl then he has the upper hand – so they think.
    I don’t think a woman needs to subject her potential love interest to such humility and I don’t think a relationship can be buit with such manipulation techniques, but you know what? THESE TECHNIQUES WORK BECASUE ALL THESE WOMEN ARE IN RELATIONSHIPS AND THEY ARE HAPPY, CONFORTABLE AND SECURE.
    So maybe you should tell the soldier that the reason 80% of women are vicious is because men allow them to be and, even more, they love them for being vicious!!!!!

  33. I really can’t think of any vicious women in my life. Is this vicious toward men? or humanity in general. Capricorn moon.

  34. I Think Men are also Vicious some way !!!

    But we can become better by observing us everyday so i will have a lot to Improve !!!

    Have a Great week ahead !!!

  35. A very dear friend of mine paid me the highest compliment I ever received, and he said that he pitied the poor mother****** who ever tried to get between me and one of my kids. It’s happened, and I turn into something that closely resembles the bear pictured in the title of this post ( I actually cracked up when I saw the two together ! Thanks for the laugh, Elsa ! ). So, I’m with Daisy on that one, but seriously; does that happen 20% of someone’s trip through motherhood ? And what kind of mother does’nt rise up to protect her kids ? I think threatened moms have to be exempted from the count altogether.

    I think the count is for all the other instances where women might get torqued up over things, real or imagined. As far as I’m concerned, there’s nothing else worth throwing down that way for; except my kids. I’m one of those saps who’s usually stunned at people’s uncivilised behaviour; so I never expect others to behave badly. Naive, I know…

  36. Holy shit! I just read what andres posted. My immediate reaction to that is to say that it sounds like he works with average to low-intelligence people. And, that said, I think that 80 percent of the world’s population is of less than average intelligence. So that would validate the games that his colleagues appear to be playing with their spouse. I believe that higher intelligence species are less likely to play games. I think.

  37. Hi Bananas, read your post several times. I have a little different take on it. I agree with what you are saying, but when you use the word intelligence what I am hearing is emotional intelligence not mental intelligence. I work in a field that is woman dominated(nurse) and while the tide is turning as more men enter the field(thank-God) I have noticed in my career life, some very medically intelligent woman, however when it comes to mating, romance, love, relationships(emotinal stuff) sometimes they do get stupid and vicious, after all there are still many, many, woman, not all, but many who want to marry a doctor. So yes they can be good at their job, smart at their job, but watch the transformation when the young handsome male doc’s come around. And while it may be just Hollywood, the tags McSteamy and McDreamy do exist in the real world.

    Please note not all nurses are this way, but we are talking the 80/20 principle here, and I don’t care if you call it a logarythym or f of x, the solider is right and the math is there.

  38. If you hang around with vicious people in general, then yeah, you probably know a lot of them, women included. Especially if you are in a macho profession, I have to say, because that’s probably needed there.

    I, on the other hand, know the occasional vicious woman here and there (one of my aunts in particular is a p/a variety), but I try NOT to associate with those people when I find them, if I can get away with it. Ergo, my percentage of vicious women around me is very slim.

  39. I said 20 percent. A pretty high percentage of the ones I’ve come into seem to be stuck on that whole suburban mom competition thing, but that’s not being vicious. Stupid and vacuous, but not vicious. There’s a couple of those in my husband’s family, and I dislike them so much that I never refer to them as sister-in-laws. They have very few, if any, redeeming qualities about them, and I’d rather not be in contact with them.

  40. I agree with Elsa – 20%. I’m a Capricorn moon. Vicious, I think, is serious business; it’s really dedication to and persistence in being downright nasty. Now things like catty, jealous, gossipy, etc, those show up more often but seem to be more “under-the-radar” traits, perhaps for those who “aspire” to be vicious, LOL!

  41. Yeah, I think 80% is way too high. Haven’t found it in my life (though I have some Plutonian type friends who have occasional spurts of unexpected viciousness). My bf has Moon in Scorpio and by his reports of past relationships (he’s 63, has had lots of priors!) he hasn’t seemed to attract any particularly vicious ones.

  42. Hi, Bananas! I forgot to mention I am a woman as well, otherwise I would have never been able to ‘infilitrate’ this camp.
    Secondly, after much observation I have come to the conclusion that love or the game of relationships has nothing to do with intelligence. Solitude, fear of being alone on Valentine’s day, on holidays, on your birthdays, is the same for the intelligent and less intelligent people. Fear is universal and it does not take into account whether you have an MBA or not, perhaps on the contrary. I mean intellectual intelligence, since emotional intelligence is very hard to get by.

  43. Hello all,
    I’m a woman with her Vedic moon in Scorpio and in my cancer sun sign, Lilith/venus is in Scorpio and a hard aspected Pluto. Am I vicious? Not at all. But, I attract very aggressive,addictive, compulsive and personality disordered men. So, no matter how kindly I reject them or ignore them (the guy facing me a seat away at a coffee house talking to himself about our love) they are very angered by my rejection. Also I think of The Doors song. “People are strange, when you’re a stranger ….women seem wicked, when your unwanted…” So for many men it seems they could take rejection unusually hard, especially if at that time in their life things aren’t going well?And those women are remembered! Just a thought.

  44. The male in my life is first day Gemini and Scorpio moon. He agrees with the solder. I’m last deg4ee Scorpio and Gemini moon. On your eighty percent twenty percent balance scale, of the 20 percent of women who are vicious, 2-3 are not aware. The rest are plotting sociopathic harpies.

  45. I started off thinking like you, Elsa, and now I agree with your husband.
    I am single and the more married/ in relationship women I meet, the more I think they are vicious.They either throw their relationships in my face or they act as if I want to steal their treasures.I don’t!
    Anyway, yeah, I think 80% are vicious and my Moon is not in Scorpio, it’s in Aqua, completely unaffected.

  46. It’s impossible to take the subject out of the equation here. All of our perceptions are skewed because we play a part in any situation. One persons experience is as true as another’s. The 80/20 rule doesn’t resonate with me but I’ve not really explored it so I can’t comment on that aspect of your post.

    In my case, I’ve met more vicious men than women. They’re vicious about different things though. Women I’ve met will get vicious when their children or home or man is threatened. The men I’ve met who can be vicious go there when their egos are threatened. But this is my subjective experience. I bring a lot of biases to the table. I don’t threaten women’s home/children/men but I can inadvertently threaten a mans ego.

    • I’m thinking a little more about myself here. I can be vicious. If you fuck with those things like my child or my man, I won’t hesitate to go into a vicious state. I guess I feel like viciousness is in order sometimes. But it’s not like I’m doing it for the fun of it. Luckily I’m not threatened by much so it’s only come out once in my life and it had to do with my child.

  47. Moon in Gemini here and yes, there is no doubt in my mind that women are vicious. They will sabotage other women behind their backs and I agree with the soldier.

      • @Tonya, I have seen it too! when my sister married her husband, i felt so bad for her mother in law, and why her children went into gangs as a teen to rebell, but they are doing good now. I saw it happen to other people’s lives. Also, when I research in astrology, it happened to Shania Twain too. her ex-best friend also stole her husband. I know you can’t steal, but you just don’t do that, or cross the line.

        • Yes, that is pretty nasty and a lot of women will kiss your face and then cut your throat when your back is turned. If a woman is straight up against you and tells you to your face, I respect that. But a great many go behind a person’s back.

  48. Moon conj Saturn conj south node in aquarius – I´m lucky to be alive after a life of being backstabbed by women, friends,colleges. It has broken my heart.
    Cancerian with neptune in 11th house square Moon and Saturn.

  49. Gemini Moon here, any I agree with Tonya, almost verbatim, and the Soldier. To make the question more viable though perhaps some parameters could be added. For example most women West of the Mississippi are vicious; most women who work in the Municipal Systems are vicious, most women who are on their third career etc….
    Don’t know the research on this 80/20 theory but I would definitely say most women are vicious compared to most men.
    Nothing is as strong as gentleness and nothing is as gentle as real strength.
    Blessings,
    Aries Rising

    • Yes, women are worse than men, because they slink around behind other’s backs. Most men will get in your face and let you know how it is. I was watching ID channel the other day and saw a show talking about how some women got together and created a male profile and attacked their neighbor’s daughter and told her to kill herself. The kid killed herself. That is just pure evil. And to beat all, these women talked to the mother and tried to comfort her before she found out the truth. Women will smile to your face and plunge a knife between your shoulderblades.

      • Hi. Aquarius moon, Scorpio rising, LOTS of Libra planets here. Really?? Let’s talk about cheating exes again. Men are just as capable of stabbing you in the heart, sleeping with your best friend and such, as they lie to your face and say “I love you.” Men are just as capable of being vicious. They just tend to save it for the women in their lives. I am sick of this depiction of men as always straightforward in their hostility. “A man will punch another man.” Well, yes, but they can get pretty manipulative and cruel when it comes to women. There are also plenty of male sociopaths out there too. (Look up a list of serial killers.) I agree with Virginia, we all have a shadow. We can all be vicious. But using SaDiablo’s excellent definition (“amorally, destructively selfish and willing to do whatever it takes so they come out on top”), I’d like to think that there are only about 20-30% of full-time vicious men and women out there.

  50. Well, it’s the same as men. Everything is skewed by our perception and life experience. I have Uranus in the 4th, an unaspected Sun plus Saturn square Moon. That’s a triple whammy for hardships with men. And I spent at least 25 years having difficulties between my father, an abusive & borderline former spouse, boys who viciously tormented and humiliated me in my youth and adolescence, a slew of male stalkers, male friends with underhanded intentions, and even male law enforcement officers who failed to listen and protect me when I needed them the most. My experience would say that 100% of men were vicious but things turned a corner… I met and married a wonderful man and we had a bunch of boys who are kind, gentle souls. I’m exposed now regularly to men who are nothing but respectful and gentlemanly towards their wives and community. Very seldom do I see the type of men I once knew.

    This change occurred once Saturn conjunct my Sun and then followed up by Pluto opposing my Sun. My whole idea of men (Sun) fundamentally (Saturn) transformed (Pluto). Around that time, I also moved far away from my Pluto line and that also helped dramatically… And I’m just so thankful to have had that positive shift in perspective.

  51. As for women… I have Moon conjunct Mars & Venus in the 10th, square Saturn but also sextile Jupiter and trine Pluto. I love them. I don’t know what I’d do without the amazing network of female friends I have. I had a precarious but sometimes wonderful and close knit relationship with my mother and my female relatives including my daughters. And I’ve had some horrible, awful sociopathic female friends who broke my heart and stabbed me in the back but they are now very few and far between. But I’ve also transformed some of my worst enemies into my best friends. But overall, I can say I discern more carefully now the company I keep but I try to keep an open heart as well. People aren’t always what they appear to be at first but my radar is pretty good and boundaries drawn up. So what’s that percentage? Like 10-20% vicious? My glass is much more full than empty. 😉

    • @Scottish, sounds so opportunistic and scary.

      I can’t trust those types of relationships with women who want something they like of yours. i’d rather they like me for my company and we have same hobbies ect.

      than ” oooh I like what you have so i’m gonna befriend you.”

      • my sister’s Capricorn mother in law had a bestfriend who wanted something of hers allright, true story, her husband. And then the bestfriend turned into an ex friend, who turned into a long term mistress of her husband. It’s a huge scandal in the family also hush hush but no one says much about it, but aww poor ___… my sister and her husband told me.

        • Elisa, the problem is, with the clever ones, you can’t always immediately tell what the motive is behind their wanting to be friends with you. They’re gifted at appearing genuine when really the only thing genuine about them is their desire to take what you have.

          • @Scottish, that’s why my closest friends have been borne of, from high school/childhood friends, because we were all the same. we only needed company and we had the same likes/dislikes/hobbies. the recent ones in the last years, one was due to same classes and she is happily married. lol there’s no threat to eachother.

  52. I think this is more a perception issue. It sounds like women with traditional “male” aggressive qualities are seen as vicious when, in reality, the same quality in men is seen as normal. It’s like men have this vision of women as sweet affectionate nurturers and anything outside of that is “vicious.” This is more about what your husband thinks a woman “should” be…likely a mother he compares all other women to. I think %20 of both women AND men are vicious…%80 of both are not.

    • I was thinking about this too. The conditioning of our culture. The same behavior can be exhibited by either sex and perceived totally differently by others.

  53. I think it is also worth considering that when men talk about women, they may be more likely to talk about the one that wounded them the most, rather than the many other women who were perhaps unremarkable enough not to mention. So if 20 men are talking about women, then they may all have a negative experience to relay, giving the impression that there are more ‘vicious’ women out there than the non-vicious variety.

    • @Kathy,

      you’re right. it’s the ones who are most remarkable to them, in any way that they want to hurt and abuse. Because, the others are not even worthy of their attention.
      the ones that scare them, they fear these women, but are also drawn to them.

      kind of a Lilith problem honestly. I read that somewhere, Lilith for women is how they act on their darkest, and for men it’s the woman they fear. so other women are not remarkable enough.

  54. My Moon is in Leo and I don’t think 80% of women are vicious. But I would put it around 50%. It’s mostly hidden and until it hits you, you’re not aware of the viciousness. Then again, I also think 90% of men can’t be trusted. 😀 I could go with 80/20 rule on this though. What’s 10% less or more when I generally don’t trust them anymore. 😉

  55. Having a scorpio moon (cj mars, mercury and neptune), I think he may be very sensitive to insult and injury, therefore his world view is going to reflect this. I am constantly looking at their bad sides of people, so I completely understand his point of view.

  56. I have a friendly stable Taurus moon….BUT its on opposition to a Scorpio Stellium.

    Vicious? I have been. I don’t want to be. That way of living takes the very life out of you. It diminishes you in all ways. But, I have been. And, I am not proud of it.

  57. Not sure about that word vicious. It conjures up the image of a snarling dog.

    When we generalize, we lose. Everyone has a story. Generalizations are very unfair.

  58. I’ve worked w/ some vicious women, but they’re really just compensating. I think they were/are damaged people, projecting their inner turmoil outward. Well, to be vicious you are hurt and angry.

  59. Yah, I would agree with that. Maybe not 80% but at least 50%. A lot of women are just whacked, crazy, spinning, vicious, whether then mean to be or not. Maybe this is evolutionary, you gotta survive, especially when probably 80% of men are just plain stupid.

  60. My natal Moon is in Virgo. Cut me or someone else deeply in an undeniable way and I will return the favor by cutting you – out of my trusted circle without any discussion. Male, female, whatever – a lot of people permit themselves/each other to be deliberately cruel to one another and project the blame upon their victims. 80%? I hope not but sometimes it does feel that way.

  61. Scorpio Moon. I have been called a “quivering bowl of jello” and have been called “vicious” at different times in my life. I just can’t see it being any/all. However, I take umbrage at calling Cher vicious. If you read her story, all she wanted was to be her own person, and she had to do what she had to do in order to claim herself. Still, at Sonny’s funeral, she cried like a baby. Truly vicious women don’t cry. Truly vicious women have closed themselves off to their femininity and do not EVER allow themselves to feel any soft emotion. So therefore, for the love of humanity, I have to hope that there are few truly vicious women. In my mind, there are far, far more truly vicious men. It’s just easier for them, to divorce themselves from emotion.

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