Can a person who loses your trust ever get it back?
There’s a gal in my life; I used to communicate with her quite a bit. I wrote her long emails, told her stories, and shared (personal) pictures with her. I’ve typed, daily for twenty years. I have to preserve my hands so this was unusual for me. I prefer to use the phone.
Clearly, she was “in” with me. Or maybe I was using her. Because I knew if I fed her, the information would be dispersed?
The information I shared was dispersed as far as I know. But then this gal developed some obsession with me.
I don’t know exactly what happened. These kinds of things are deep and swirling. It’s hard to say when it started but the more I gave her, the more she wanted. I began to feel she was using me as “social currency”.
“What does, Elsa, think?”
“I’ll find out and get back to you…”
That was one of her common phrases.
This might have been alright, had she transferred the information without adding her own embellishments. But instead it was like I’d hand her a painting…she’d paint on top it and then identify it is mine. “Elsa feels like this…” She shared this stuff, publicly. I read about myself with an eyebrow raised.
At that point I decided to quit offering her something pure so she could make it into sausage of a flavor I deplore. I pulled my horns in and she’s tried to re-engage me ever since.
I see no way forward. I can’t sit down with this gal and explain to her what bothers me, because the information will be mashed and re-formed into something detestable, then transferred around.
I don’t trust her, but not in the way that word is generally used. I don’t trust her to discern. She’s just not smart enough or she thinks a flamingo is a cow or something. I don’t know.
She keeps trying to put it back the way it was. But I would never invest in her again. How does a story like this end?
This is about what happend to me. It ended in serious stalking. I needed and found help for this. It is not over yet, but it is getting better. I will never forget this. This is one of the most horrible things I have experienced.
This question about regaining trust once it has been lost has weighed on my mind for the better part of…probably 6 years, maybe more. I know people who have no issues with this, and are able to reassimilate the relationship once a certain amount of atonement or forgiveness has been reached. Some people I know have unfathomable wells of forgiveness at their disposal, and therefore allow people in their life to constantly break their trust, all the while seeimingly uneffected by it. In a way, I envy them.
I used to struggle, for a long time, with feelings of guilt about not being able to do this…once I am burned, I do not forget, and usually don’t forgive. I’ve only recently come to accept that this is part of who I am. My chart does not have a Venus/Pluto signature, but I am an 8th house Sun with Scorpio rising, and Pluto in my 12th squaring my Mercury. All my obsessions start with my something touching my 12th house Pluto…especially when someone’s Moon touches it. I’m a pretty logical person, I feel, with high emotional intelligence (Moon trine Saturn), but there are sometimes where in synastry something is activated and it becomes…weird.
But back to your story…I can see how someone might try to become a mouthpiece for another, when they think they are doing something kind and helpful (my Virgo Mars talking here). I think there is a difference between someone doing this to help and doing this for nefarious reasons…Elsa, perhaps your friend’s perceptions of the situation and exagerrated opinion of her own intuition and idea of reality are the enemy, and not the woman herself?
Whatever the cause is, the result is akin to talking to the media and they spin what you say to their own end.
ugh, that so sucks….there seems to be an influx of oddball people lately. They befriend you, they want your attention no matter how they get it and it’s mostly screwy. I have been dealing with some neighbors down the road. Started off innocently with one child regularly stopping by my house asking me to “fix” her bike–then my dog playing with their dog until one parent came down the road at 4PM with the youngest ones in tow and a Mason jar of booze. I backed away…then it’s devolved into bike kid stealing packages off my porch or entering my property while I was not at home–my putting security cams up to catch culprit…my dog being protective…same kid told to stay away by the cops shows up to “sell” me eggs a couple weeks ago…it goes on and on….and me? I have not wanted anything to do with these folks since the Mason jar full of booze day. I go to work, I come home, I do gardening, tend to my grandchild and pets, I keep to myself…so it’s all a big WTF to me.
She probably doesn’t even realise that she’s using you and that it’s painful and hurtful for you. Venus square pluto relationships call for back-off until the other party (the one who’s obsessing – her)gets it and makes the necessary amendments and changes, including apologizing to you. Your silence and backing – off might just trigger her into thinking deeper and becoming more reflective on her behaviour – maybe? I hope so, it would good for both of you. Just to note, I had a fall-out with a good friend of mine, pluto stuff and I was devastated, this person was similar in soul depth and understanding, and I thought it was over. The only way was to isolate myself from this person, (I was so hurt!) Time has passed and we’ve both learned – on the inside, unspoken changes have taken place and we are back strong. I am so happy, this person mattered to me, we made the changes behind our personal scenes. So I am hopeful for you Elsa.
People are weird, Elsa. No other explanation. I’ve seen some of the
most bizarre behavior exhibited so I’m convinced just about everybody has a bit of cray-cray in them. Including me. But don’t stop giving of yourself just because of a bad experience or 20.. Share them. We enjoy your stories! ?
How does a story like this end? Goodbye!
You can’t fix that. It just ends. I’ve lived it. No one knows how I feel. What I have actually been through. No one has walked in my shoes, nor have I walked in theirs. And the big thing is, no one else has my feelings, my moral compass or my childhood base. They cant interpret anything I have done in my life with their reasoning. All people are going to color things through their perception.
An example of this is my childhood. I was the oldest. I saw the real deal and was old enough ~ when the hell was happening, to remember it all. I have a sister who is 13 years younger than me. I can tell her the stories until I turn purple but she isn’t going to get it ….and she grew up with the same people. Problem is…they calmed down as they got older and she didn’t get to see that side of them. So within my own family the message and the truth are lost.
They say the average amount of time a woman can either keep a secret or keep her mouth shut when she has information is 47 hours. This is why I don’t tell anyone anything.
If I explain a situation or need to talk and every single time I do the meaning is twisted, the story wrong, or lost or embellished the person has to GO.
So that I don’t have to be done with people, I don’t feed them any information that is important. Not one single story line. Folks cant even repeat the simplest of information on correctly.
An apology is nice, but it will not change someone’s character. People are who they are.
If you cant trust someone to repeat the simplest thing – like – I told her I walked across the street. She repeated – she raced as she ran across the street …. you cant have anything to do with them. They either have no perception of reality or they are just a freaking liar!
Even the people closest to me have repeated things in error. I have said in no uncertain terms to my own husband ….what happens in this house stays in this house and is not to be repeated to anyone at any time ever. 20 years….he is good and feels the same way.
I adore my youngest son. I really do! But he is like an old woman standing at the back fence chewing the fat. You cant tell him anything nor do you want him to know anything. He IS the evening news and he loves to tell a story. He cant help it. He is a story teller. Not an actual liar…he just has no way within his soul to shut his mouth. (the boy is the king of Mercury) So…. no information is fed to him ….not of any importance.
Then I have the oldest son…you could torture him and you will never get a single piece of information out of him. Nothing. You cant even drag it out of him when its important. That boy is a vault.
I hate a big mouth. I know more shit about more people than I want to know. Shocking things. But, what if the information I have is incorrect? You just don’t repeat shit. Its best to shut your mouth. So much damage can be done to a person when you pass some half-assed information along. People need to mind their own business
I don’t have anyone who is obsessed with me, but I don’t let anyone get close enough to me to become obsessed and that may be wrong….because it means I don’t let anyone in. I am sure that is probably no way to live. But, its what works for me. I have been ‘done in’ way too many times.
Knowing my own child has no way within his soul to keep quiet, the relationship I have with him is always going to be different than the one I have with the oldest. Doesn’t mean I love him less. I love him greatly. But, I also know who he is. So, being able to talk about the really deep hairy stuff is never going to be a part of who we are as mother and son. And the truth is, he has nothing inside him that can process anything deep anyway. It is completely lost on him. The other son used to say when they were kids, my brother is about as deep as a thimble. He realized it way before I did. And listen, that is okay. Its just who he is. Being who he is is actually amazing in a thousand different ways. I wish I could be more like that…. he just lets things roll off his back. Guess who is the happiest most of the time?
Will I invest in a person that cant keep their mouth shut or that cant tell a straight story? Never. Can I repair something once trust is lost? HA …I have way too much fixed water. They are dead to me long before they even know it.
I will speak to them, I will be cordial, I will always be kind first. But past that….we wont be talking about anything that has any meaning to me. It will be straight up ‘weather talk’. That is what I call it. I have my ‘weather talk’ friends….and I have my ‘real deal’ friends. I have way less of that later.
And, I have had ‘real deal’ friends that have been put in the ‘weather talk’ zone…..
Yeeees. I can relate. I think you explained what I couldn’t put my finger on. It was the complete perversion of the energy that I would give her. The liberties she took were astounding. She also picked up a lot my personal quirks which bothered me. Started wearing a shade of lipstick that was kind of a signature for me. She bonded with my son which is fine, but would literally push me out of the way to get to him if he got hurt or something. I called her (meanly) my single white female. I still care about her but I don’t share stuff with her because it goes through her brain and comes out her mouth with all kinds of added details, missing important details, or just straight up lies. Its just not fun to be around someone who you don’t want to share with.
I have experienced shades of this as well. There are things I am enthusiastic about so she becomes enthusiastic about them, emulating me. The problem is, my enthusiasm is or at least *was* authentic. But once someone thinks they are being me, there is no reason for me to be involved. So the result of all this is that I am taking my energy and my enthusiasm, my ideas and whatever else it is that I have, somewhere else.
It feels “not safe” in some way. Like I could start a sentence and she can finish it for me with words that are foreign (if not abhorrent) to me.
I am a female, and I have become infatuated with women in the past. Not in a romantic context per say, but more like…there are some women that I have been in such awe of their abilities, their talents, their strength, their femininity…these women that attract me, that draw me in, posess in some way, some trait that I feel that I lack and that I wish I could aspire to be more like. When I have attempted to emulate them, it wasn’t because I was trying to put on their skin and walk around as cruel imposters; I was attempting to acheive a level of greatness that I desperately wanted to feel. What is wrong with inspiration? What is wrong with trying to mimic and copy? Isn’t that the ultimate form of flattery?
As a child I could never undertand why people thought that was weird; as an adult, I simply don’t share that with anyone, and try to hide it. I still run across women who inspire me, and who I aspire to be like. But I’m not talking about wearing my hair the same or trying to insert myself into their lives…I’m talking about modifying my own behavior and tailoring it like theirs.
What is wrong with trying to better yourself?
“What is wrong with inspiration? What is wrong with trying to mimic and copy? Isn’t that the ultimate form of flattery?”
Imo, nothing is wrong with it, it’s natural to aspire to be more like those we admire. I always have a role-model.
But I think maybe they’re referring to some form of envy or jealousy- it goes beyond admiration..its more perverted- there is something about it that feels like…. This person is trying to diminish me…to take away from me…stealing my energy and ideas. You can tell the difference in the intentions energetically and intuitively. Its all about the vibes.
Same here!! There was a woman I wanted to be like and it turned out that she actually wanted to be like me! ??? She saw me at a distance and she was determined to become my friend, that she quickly dressed to impress and came met me “spontaneously”. It’s not as creepy as it sounds. She and I are great friends and we laugh about this. How intimidated and drawn we were to each other right off the bat. I consider her one of my soul tribe people on earth.
That would bother me so much. Acting as if they were my spokesperson, but telling other people things I would never think, say, or feel. There are also people who believe I would do something, but that is furthest from what I would do. I try to be careful about putting words in someone else’s mouth because I don’t know how they think or feel. I am not them and I can’t read their mind, plus I have a horrible memory, so I don’t want to put words in their mouth because I dreamed something up. My experience with it is if people are this far off, they continue to be this far off and them being told about it does nothing. If I wished the relationship would work out, I might forgive them if they stopped doing that, but the chances of that are slim.
For the record, I don’t think my friend type person?, is malicious. I think she gets off on the power of knowing things about someone she admires. Like “look at my cool friend libra noir. I know so much about her. And we’re so close.” I’m pretty sure everything she did was a way to be close to me and not to destroy me or anything.
I love telling a story, myself; I love reading lots of books and then my imagination goes wild. However, if I myself experience these things in life, I can interpret them however I want to. But if someone tells me their story, I would rather they tell their story themselves. but it has to be a story that is their profound life story. there are so many incidents when my family and I talk about someone in the family and friends, and what we did that certain day/event…like this so and so did that and did this, and everyone sees it very similar! so a cigar is a cigar. I just noticed that today is Double Gemini day, Sun and moon. and lots of fire/air in the planets. It’s blowing lots of mercurial airy today. 🙂
It sounds like she wants to be the cool kid. If she is a blow George then other people should notice and adjust accordingly. I would just let God handle it, just pray that God’s will is done for both of you and that you will be busy gardening in the meantime.
Yes, I have told everyone we are taking summer off. Our sons are coming, plus neurosurgery and the other thing I’ve got going on. Plus, we both work! So yeah. Full dance card, but she contacted me twice today, anyway.
That’s tough. I hope it works out well.
Thanks. It’s all right.I have a great class going, garden coming along, fruit on the trees…I just don’t have time for people who waste time!
There was this person who would fish all kinds of details from and about me, then fabricate a story around them and tell our mutual friends, or even worse, people who didn’t yet know me. She would either praise my talent and have people be let down when they found out I wasn’t THAT good, or have people think I wasn’t a functioning member of the society. Both of these simultaneously. I’m still not sure if this was done maliciously or if she really thought it was the truth. At some point (well, tr. Saturn transiting my Mercury/Neptune conjunction, boundaries) I quit providing the material.
I also admit to having done this myself when I was in love with someone who wasn’t in love with me. I honestly thought I knew him and would tell other people how he was like and what he meant by saying something. In hindsight I knew fuck all about what he was like or what he really thought. It wasn’t done maliciously, it was a mixture of fantasy and obsession.
Pretty cool, you caught on to yourself. I think this is akin to what I am talking about because I keep getting baited with uninteresting bait. And that is a pretty good sign, a person thinks they know how to move and motivate you, but they don’t. Like waving green in front of a bull. Wrong currency, babe! 🙂
Saturn transiting Mercury that would do it. I have a natal mercury Saturn conjunction; and its tight. People thinking I am something other than what I am has happened all my life; and all through gossip; or professionals jumping to conclusions; framing as well happens. I mostly keep out of the way of people now.
Well that certainly resonated with me. My Venus in Gemini (H7) square MC/Mars/Pluto in Virgo (H10). You have just nailed something that used to do my head in endlessly asking the questions of, ‘Why’? ‘What did I do’?
The masculine Gemini doing the act to the feminine Virgo.
Now, I simply ‘close the door’, walk away & do not look back – ever. I work out what my mistake is/was, learn the lesson & let it go. There is no point pining over wasted relationships of any description. Until they can actually work out what they have done (if they even have a conscious at all), why should I be the party left agonising over something somebody else has done/caused/created?
FWIW, it has only been since 2010 that I have learnt to do that. Before, I made excuses of, ‘what if’ but now, I draw the line in the sand that I will not cross.
Venus square Pluto reminds myself more of a joke. Brace yourselves::0 How do you make a hormone……..you dont pay her.
I went through a similar dynamic with a woman I was a spiritual mentor for.
After several seemingly good years and similar input, it became flat and then draining. Had a feeling of being spiritually/energetically misused.
The day came when it broke…irretrievably. She was walking in my ‘borrowed light’…feeding off of me, rather than doing something useful with what was given. Becoming dependent and demanding. I side with Elsa’s gut here… There is no fix for illegitimacy. The only appropriate(loving) response is to deconstruct it and let them start over and walk in their own light…to the extent that it exists. Not Elsa’s problem…
Two stories. Because it is beyond my ken as to how something like this ends.
I find your choice of words so very useful. Discern. So few have that ability. I recently hired a brilliant young woman. She cannot discern anything with customers. She has a people pleasing gene that did not show in the hiring process. She is being retrained for another position that i only hope takes otherwise i will be letting her go. I rehired to cover her duties and sue me for this, actually actively sought out and hired an older woman. You bear of discrimination in the workforce for older people. Well they come with discernment and a whole pile of skills i really need. She is thrilled with her position as she was finding the job maket awful. She has excellent skills and discernment really describes one of them.
In other news someone once shared an awful pain of theirs. Think 30 years ago. I was fairly young. I saw that it was not my story or my pain and it was being shared in part as a life lesson. I kept that pain of theirs private as it is not mine. I have paid the price in two family relationships because of assumptions made. I do not regret keeping silent. I do not see value in using someone elses story for manuvering or manipulation. If those people do not even stop to ask then i am not the one to fix it for them. I am horribly sad at the loss of relationships but i also know i would like to look myself i the mirror every morning and know that i trust myself. I wonder if people with little discernment trust themselves?