Venus Neptune types go from “saint” to “sinner” in not much more than the blink of an eye. Some try to warn a person when they see they’re dreaming them up.
I have Venus square Neptune in my chart and I have all kinds of elaborate (and in many cases imaginary) defenses against this that only work if I delude myself. It forces me to sum this up in 2009, as follows:
After a lifetime of this occurring you do realize that at least for you, love is ethereal. It has no beginning or end. It comes, it goes and it definitely cannot be caught or kept or captured or contained. It leaks all the time and if you have some in your life, you go on faith and nothing but that the love you have will be there tomorrow and if not, there will be something beyond.
For Venus Neptune, sometimes love is a service or a sacrifice but in these cases it is impossible to tell who is served… or sacrificed for that matter. It is impossible to nail these things down because as soon as you do they morph on you and the stories here are incredible.
It is always possible for Venus Neptune to claim victimization but it is not very smart, reason being it’s a dead end. What does Neptune want with a dead-end?
Do you have Venus in Pisces, Neptune in the 7th or Venus aspecting Neptune? Do you feel you’re a victim or have you found a way to avoid this?
I chose the pic because look at those kids. The well is there, it doesn’t mean you get in it.
great point.
“It is always possible for Venus Neptune to claim victimization but it is not very smart, reason being it is a dead end.”
Yes, I know not to fall in the victim hole (well, now I do), for that very reason. What does Neptune want with a dead end? Nada. I have been there from time to time, but it’s pointless, that’s for sure.
I love the picture. It soooo proves you can be by hole, merge with it (they’re all wet) and still manage not to fall in!!
ha ha ha, I am the only one who thinks I am clever. ::snort::
LOL! That is clever. 🙂
Well it is not all that often I manage so I do like the marvel. This is my main problem / annoyance / jealousy of Gemini. They are clever all the time and for me it’s like a 3 times a year feat! 🙂
Tell me about it, I’m surrounded by these Gemini Moons and Risings that always get me in the clincher and leave my mouth hanging with nothing to say or do but laugh and wish I was that smooth.
By Venus Neptune do you mean Venus Neptune conjunction or other aspect, Libra Neptune, Pisces Venus, or any of the above?
Caroline, pretty much, yes. Also Venus in 12, and Neptune in or ruling the 7th.
Well, My partner is such. We’ve been together 15 years. Venus in 12 and Neptune in the 7th conjunct his north node and descendant. He’s still a mystery to me. I can observe, accept, and respond. I repeatedly clarify adoration and perspective. There’s always an other something that’s out there that he’s tuned into.
Gotcha gotcha. Thanks 🙂
Venus square Neptune with Neptune ruling the 7th house here.
Yeah that’s just time and effort wasted that could be used to get yourself back on track. I saw a quote somewhere from JFK I believe where he said “It easier to curse the darkness than it is to light a candle” or something like that.
i had fun for a long time in the victim hole. more fun that taking the effort to try to build a real relationship. there’s a certain intoxication that can be found in misery. dangerously addictive,
at least in my case.
i wrote lots of poetry…
yes wyrdling, misery is great for writing. Back to the saint and the sinner and the sacrifice….I mean if you are sacrificed then that is what has happened. You cannot undo the sacrifice. There is a certain reality to this – (I have Venus in Pisces in the 7th). But you can seek understanding and thereby a certain level of forgiveness of oneself and other and so, redeem the victim within.
I love the well.
My ex had Venus in Pisces, opposite Neptune I Sag.
He ended up sacricing me on the alter of anger when I fell down from the piedestal.
The same with my ex before him
I got really tired of it. So when I met my current BF who also had Neptune/Venus on the Gemini/Sag axis I told him I did not want to be put on a pedestal. I had flaws and was imperfect and he better get bloody used to it and me being imperfect for what he thought he saw me as, because otherwise this relationship would crash and burn in the fires of hell.
He was a bit taken aback, but I was so tired of the victim mentality I saw from my exes. So he had to adult up or be gone, as I couldn’t stand this idealizing stuff from a man anymore. If he did, the front door was there.
I think it saved a lot of trouble I told him that from the beginning.
He has not put me up there and I don’t think he will. I think the past years have shown me to not being an ideal but a real human being.
So, I did something about this. But sometimes it sneaks in anyway, at least he acting like a victim and then I call his bullshit and ask him to be an adult and tell him how things are in the real world and REAL relationships. I can’t stomach the co-dependency and victim role anymore. Neither can I stomach it in myself either, even though I have been good at it myself when younger.
Then I got burnt and I stopped the toxic shit as best as I could. No more Neptune acting out-shit for me please!
It’s only until you understand that any service requires a sacrifice – at least from people with a strong ego… and that any service is an chance to transcend. I agree, Elsa, with Venus Neptune it’s hard to tell who’s served and who’s sacrificed… but since it’s Neptune I’d say the one who doesn’t seem to be.
By the way, the water from this well looks like Gatorade, or Matcha tea 🙂 but I love the pic!
I mean because any true service takes you right into your 12th house.
My own neptune is well placed (in Sag, conjunct Jupiter) and ready to cause all kinds of mischief. I can be ideal as all hell, which is where I end up when I’m not careful with it.
For me, it’s conjunct not venus, but mars–but the potential for victimization is still there. With mars involved, I’m liable to drive my faux crusade off a cliff.
I sort of know better. Still more room for improvement though.
P.S.–I liked the well metaphor, as well 🙂
“I mean if you are sacrificed then that is what has happened. You cannot undo the sacrifice. There is a certain reality to this. But you can seek understanding and thereby a certain level of forgiveness of oneself and other and so, redeem the victim within.”
Diastella, I think you’ve just given me a piece of the puzzle I’ve been working on. Thank you! Your words are/were healing balm. *grins*
When I see someone who continusy identifies themselves as a victim, I believe it is the people around them who are actually victimized.
“Elsa, with Venus Neptune it’s hard to tell who’s served and who’s sacrificed… but since it’s Neptune I’d say the one who doesn’t seem to be.”
I don’t agree with this either. It is an attempt to apply rules to Neptune which is never going to work.
Also what “seems” depends on who is doing the “seeming” and I can tell you for real that I have gotten 100 nasty mails detailing what it seems I am doing and not recognized or identified with a word of diatribe.
Just a couple of weeks ago I got a violent threat from one the of readers here who vowed to expose me for what I was and what I was doing. That was followed by a long list of… insanity easily and immediately refuted by the 7000 posts on this blog, never mind the 8000 post on the other.
I’m just saying a person drunk or brain damaged may be doing the “seeming” or even someone who is educated but poorly which is just as dangerous.
I am also saying that deciding the opposite that seems is true is going to get you into trouble too. Sometimes it is EXACTLY what it seems.
This is why discernment (Virgo) is so important when dealing with Neptune.
Thinking 3 + 4 may or may not = 7 is plague of humanity right now.
“It not a rape, rape,” says Whoopi Goldberg. On TV no less.
this:
When I see someone who continusy identifies themselves as a victim, I believe it is the people around them who are actually victimized.
is one of the smartest things I’ve ever read. Thank God for you Elsa.
I couldn’t agree more!
You’re right, Elsa, many times things are exactly what they seem, and I would add people say exactly what they mean.
well,i jumped in and out of a mutual victimhood celebration society for awhile. in pieces. some of us grew up, or out, or through it and started taking responsibility for where we were, at different stages, and i am very thankful for those who showed me it could be done, and how…
Wyrdling – I’ve watched that “mutual victimhood admiration society” in my extended family. Lots of water there. The parents beat the children daily yet there is this competition between the grandmother and her daughters (I’m out a generation) as to who has it worse. My little branch of the family is the only one who up and moved away and refused to continue playing that game. When I go to extended family gatherings I’m always amazed to watch – it’s not always overt (we’re from that reserved upper midwest culture don’tcha know) but they still even today compete. When my branch (small tho it is) shows up they get all weird because we’re not of the same “mess” it throws off the game.
so sayz venus pisces and neputne 7th. I’ve had my share of experiences where I’m all of a sudden the bad guy or get dumped from the group/situation/etc. in a manner that leaves me surprised. I became the sinner for speaking the truth. I tend to pick myself up and move along best I can because I can’t fix their image of me. That is one thing my SO cannot come to terms with is how this happens and why I don’t put more effort into changing their perceptions. I’ve got more things to get done in this live than fight somone else’s imagry.
A Venus/Neptune person can be transformed into martyr– a real deadend. ( I’ve got a Nept.trine Venus & Asc. sextile saturn/ and opps Merc)
Martyrs can be held up like a banner to support dubious causes (Sometimes) as much as the good. After you are dead you kind of lose autonomy–you get no say about how your image is used.Being used is a Neptune thing too.
I think love is an action used to serve the good.
…how do we know what is good? Look at who is served and who is not.
I have been getting my head around some very silly and very dangerous conspiracy theories.
I spent 7 years at Theosophical Society bookshop–one of the biggest in the world. Lots and lots of information. Even a little corner for David Icke…and the space lizards.
Yes, there are psychopaths/sociopaths in positions of power, they are never found on the front line,l have noticed– they find martyrs very useful.
I will not prop up delusions esp. these days.There is always a certain type of person who never feels right about themselves, unless they can look down on someone else. Literally have their foot on someone’s neck.
History has a long list of scapegoats.
I will always speak up against that.
I am only interested in a persons character– their race, gender, who they sleep with (as long as it is about adults and is consentual), even religion is secondary.
How do you judge a persons character?
Look at how they treat others.
I do look forward to reading your emails each day…thank you for doing this!
A weak square from the 6th to the 8th houses. Leo to Scorpio. I overlook bad traits even when forewarned by friends and let myself fall into it. Disillusion comes when reality enters a continuing relationship and I like to brood over this even f i think I’m too smart for that. True deceptions on the other person’s part have been part of the mix making them not really who they say they are. They just don’t know themselves as they are. I get called the dreamer and it may be true especially sexually.
I have Venus in 9th square Neptune in 12th (their mutual only aspect in my chart).
I don’t feel like a victim, I feel like an a–hole.
Like I never even see the most obvious things, so it’s my fault!
After a while it gets pretty gross.
Now I look back and am thankful that worse things didn’t happen to me, as some situations were re really bad.
I must’ve had an angels protecting me!
I’m forever amazed at my stupidity.
Sometimes it scares me.
But, I don’t feel like a victim, just an idiot.
I can relate, unfortunately.
Lapses of judgement occur!
For sure!!!
Thank you for your sympathy and understanding 🙂
I have Libra Neptune conjunct Venus in the 2nd House, and Pisces (Neptune ruled) Moon in the 7th. I’ve “felt” sacrificed twice and was “felt” to have sacrificed once. I’m old, 71, but very much alive. It’s life, that’s it. Not every decision one makes about love (or money, or work, or art) is the last decision you will make. After 30 years of not being put on a pedestal and no longer able to find the pedestal I might have once had him on, I left my husband and returned to the man whose pedestal I would like to occupy. He’s older than me, so time may run out, but until then I’m where I want to be. I did not leave anyone in a hole of any kind. With a stellium in Libra (Mars conjunct Saturn, Saturn conjunct Neptune, Neptune conjunct Libra) I did all I could to be fair, but there is a limit to giving and a time limit to living.
Your perspective on pedestals and sacrifice are stirring. I’m 76, time is limited; my Neptune trines an 11th house Venus(conjugation with Jupiter) so exaggerated love interest and big dreams.
That Neptune also tries a 7th House Pluto.
At the moment I’m a swamp lizard (that well photo) reckoning with my options late in life. I have lots of fixed water.