Now here’s another story, sort of the opposite of Leon. And considering Leon is a friend of mine that does not mean this other person is not likable because she is extremely likable. I am just trying to illustrate the different ways I see people relate to other people. So anyway, I met this gal…
We hit is off and started talking a lot. We spoke a compatible language and we were both excited to have connected. We made very fast friends which is fine with me if it when it comes that way organically which with Aquarians it often does. But after about 3 weeks of chat, including very intimate sharing, we got into a sticky place and long story short… she’s gone.
Now I raised my voice. I was not pissed. I was just emphatic about the point I was making and I am Italian. So you know. I am sure it was hot on her end of the phone, and I have not heard from her since. She’s gone.
And though I feel sort of lousy about it, I realized in the short time I knew her she started and ended several other relationships which could mean a couple things.
It could mean she’s in a phase where she’s is starting up a lot of paths only to realize they’re not right for her or more likely I was just too dense and intense for her taste and why take the heat when there is another entity right down the street? But here’s my point:
Speaking as someone who keeps their friends long term, I would say that if you are going to have relationships that are deep, satisfying, stabilizing and so forth, you are going to have to stand the heat in someone’s kitchen. Because we all have heat in our kitchen. We all have problems, low times, high times, times where we are fun and exciting and other times not so much.
You have to be willing and able to stick with people through the range of their inevitable cranky moods or life changes them and I guess I see Venus Saturn types as well equipped to do this. Venus Saturn is very sturdy and makes a stand up friend.
As I’ve mentioned having so much Capricorn in my chart, and I routinely draw Venus Saturn and Venus in Capricorn and I don’t know that there is anyone I’d rather have my back. The whole world can turn on you. This has happened to me and it’s Venus in Capricorn standing alongside saying, “Leave her alone.”
They love (Venus) you in public (Saturn), see. They stand up for you. The whole world can tie you to a stake, place grass at your feet, be ready to light it and it’s going to be your Venus Saturn friend who steps up and says, “You’re not going to light that…”
And the people will stop in their tracks too because of the authority that Venus Saturn exudes. It’s as if Venus Saturn is credible. They are equipped to judge (Saturn) your worth (Venus) so if they say you’re okay, then you can be sure you’re okay.
Compare to Venus Neptune who can dream up a turd and you get the picture.
Do you have the fortitude stand up for others who are worthy but under attack?
Yes, I have the fortitude. And I do stand up, but often (really, almost always) it is never one-sided. That is to say, my friend often has a share in the blame. So, I would say that the only thing I am more loyal to than my long-term friends is the truth.
Usually, what happens is that I stand up for my friend and point out the parts that the other side is missing. But I really am not fond of blind loyalty, and I will not defend things my friends do that I think the other side has a legitimate complaint about. Sometimes I lose friends over that, but I think that is part of my “heat” that they need to stand or not be my friend…
Yes. I am a very stand up friend, very loyal to people who do not abuse this loyalty. Fortunately I have not encountered many who do.
As an aside, I have a very loud voice and am glad I am an adult who has an outside job. OUTSIDE VOICE EVERY DAY! ha ha ha!
For sure. I’m not so sure its about my knowledge of their value, because I’ve been gobsmackingly wrong before. But I remember being shocked when my friend Mark said that no one would leap in front of a train for their friends. Who wouldn’t? I mean. Real friends. That’s what you do. Why would you bother being real deep friends with someone you don’t care about enough to try and save ’em? Which just that last bit of phrase made me laugh because how 12th house is that? I’ll saaaaave you! Even though I’m not sure of your worth!
I am boringly loyal to those I care about . . . with Venus trine Saturn & Moon sextile Saturn, I just am simply ‘there’. However, having an active Pluto, friends can just be gone one day for no particular reason. So my style is to be open to making new friends and if the old ones walk back in, we just pick up where we left off.
And, yes, I stand up for my friends if someone is stupid enough to trash them in front of me . . . 🙂
I would agree with CD, exactly.
Right now we have a marital disaster in the family- my cousin is a dick and I’ve thought from day one that his wife could do better- and 100% alone for life would still be better than my cousin. 9 years later he’s now “sort of” saying he wants a divorce in a passive-aggressive, dickish way. I am totally on her side (I’d rather keep her than him in a divorce), but when she gets in the whiny weepy mood of “I’ll do ANYTHING to keep him” and doesn’t do things to protect herself, I can’t help but “disloyally” think that she needs to shape up and protect herself and the kids.
Yes but why are you so stuck on this??
I was betrayed and about to be used by a Venus-Saturn person. 🙁 My father, Venus-Sat op, also a jerk and abandoned his children, betrayed them.
Loyalty .. for whatever reason I’m asked by those I just step into relationship with to betray myself – ‘If you really liked me you’d surrender your identity / be what I wanted / cater to my needs.’ I think there’s an introductory phase we can all expect – where the person has enough objectivity and distance from their own needy needs to get to know the other person. How can they ‘love’ you if they don’t know you? Loyalty shouldn’t be expected before then. The relationship would be based on projection etc and nothing to latch loyalty on to…
Then the demanding of loyalty is manipulation…
I think Chris has a good point – different levels of loyalty in new becoming-friendships vs. established ones.
As someone who is a good friend, I have learned that this has value (and is not always common) and so I am choosy sometimes about who I parcel it out to (sorry if that sounds snobby).
How do you know when a friendship has crossed that line? Or, maybe I am wrong in assuming that there *is* a line, maybe that’s just me. That might be a good question for the collective…
No. lol. I look at things from all sides, and most people in everyday situation deserve or need what happens to them, even if they or others think they’re “good people”. Obvious exceptions being abuse, rape, murder type situation. Too much protectiveness inspires victim mentality, where nothing ever happens because of them – everything happens TO them and they were just there. Even if it seems random at the moment, it’s important to own up to what happens to you.
I have some of this venus-saturn stuff going on in my chart… Saturn being in libra, and having so much venus going on. But I’m irreverent and disloyal as a general rule.
what if you have venus saturn _and_ venus neptune, hm? 😛
i just can’t see this in me. for whatever reason. maybe it’s there and i’m not standing in the right place.
but i was just doing this last week for one of my classmates when one went into a vicious manic cycle on her. but. i felt like i didn’t do enough? everyone was hurt. it was ugly. and sad.
Am I an evil idiot who laughs at the words ‘murder type situation’?! Sorry June–not you, just a bad sense of humour
Oh and PS Jennifer: kids are always %100 priority of ANY sitution,all the time…all the time. No compromises for me on this, AT ALL. So don’t worry about being on side with the adults.
Re: Wyrdling: Yeah, Elsa — what if someone is BOTH a Venus Saturn and Venus Neptune person, like my friend?? Are they perpetually dithering?
I have Venus in Capricorn square Saturn in Virgo. This post reminds me of a scene in one of my favorite movies: “Kung Fu Hustle”. A gang bullies a local neighborhood and when one of the people beats up a gang member, the leader takes a mother and child, pours gasoline on them and sparks a lighter, saying he will count to three and the guilty person must come forward or the mother and child will burn. He counts to three and tosses the lighter, and at the last moment a man (not the one who beat up the leader) catches the lighter, shuts it and gets ready to rumble. The scene is just incredible, always tore at my heart. 🙂
Yes i do, but i never realised it was a Venus/Saturn/Capricorn thing!
(Venus conjunct Mercury in Capricorn opposite Saturn in Cancer/Cancer rising)
I find it very very hard to stand up for myself, i’m pretty passive-agressive when it come to that, and not proud of it, but when friends or famiy (especially next of kin) are under attack, i’ll jump in like a momma lion. No hesitation. And i’m willing to take the punch for it. It’s not something that was actively taught to me as a kid, it feels completely instinctual. I’m pretty surprised myself when it happens.
I really love this take on Venus in Capricorn btw!
The usual stuff is always about a serious/cautious axterior, wanting a dependable lover, blah blah blah.
This is why I love your blog. Here it is, three years later from the time you wrote this, and I’m trying to find something to bolster my depressed opinion about my chart/life. Your series on Venus/Saturn is so good. I write about this all the time, but I’ve really thought my Venus/Saturn conjunction in Aries is the worst thing in life. There are positives, though, and I am formidable in some ways, and a true friend, so thanks for giving me something positive to hold onto.
Thank you, belle. 🙂