Last night someone told me that what they said didn’t count because they said it when they were mad. I disagreed, feeling a person is responsible for what they say, regardless of your mood. Having Mars (impulsive, angry) conjunct Mercury (speech), I have learned this the hard way. Matter of fact, every single regret I have is over something I said when I was hotted up and angry that I didn’t mean.
Having suffered profoundly over what came tumbling from my mouth when I was younger I have learned to make sure I say what I mean and mean what I say. Having the conjunction in the 9th house, I better believe (9th house) what I say (Mercury) or I am going down.
I have gotten really good at this. Matter of fact, I have gotten so good at this, I have become a precision instrument ans people can’t believe it.
“You didn’t mean that, when you said it. You were just pissed.”
“No, I did mean it,” I said. “I meant exactly what I said and I stand by it. Not only that, I will say it all again if it will help you be clear.”
I feel proud of this and I have two questions.
Do you mean what you say? Secondly, have you ever bled and been so badly burned by a part of your personality that you had no choice but to re-work it?
Pictured – Mars and Venus United by Love, Paolo Veronese, 1528-1588, Oil on canvas, 205,7 x 161 cm, c. 1570, Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York
Oooh. I really try to mean what I say. But the most common thing I say is ‘It’s okay, don’t worry about it.’ When what I REALLY mean is:
‘I don’t know what I feel about this right now, I’d like to get back to you on it.’ Then I forget about it like a spell of amnesia and when it resurfaces? It’s not very pleasant. I guess this is the part where I’m thinking about resurfacing my personality, right !:) Oh, look. I meant to type re-work. But maybe resurface is more interesting.
I’ve said some really obnoxious things in my life, when after I’ve thought ‘They didn’t really need the message attached to a burning arrow nailed to their front door!’ but all said and done, I am honest.
Now I just have to work at eliminating statements I want to be true, as to BEING true, LOL!
Angry things count too, even though we may say them thoughtlessly. But we should take responsability for what we say – Mercury in Capricorn.
I often feel ashamed of what I said – if it was hurtful or simply foolish and that’s something that stays with me.
I have Mercury square Mars, so saying impulsive things is something I have been working on.
i can sometimes say things when i’m pissed that i didn’t plan on saying, but it’s never just bullshit because i’m angry. in fact, it’s most likely to be _very_ true, although maybe not so charitable and much less diplomatic than when I’m not angry.
i don’t get angry all that much, but my mars in scorp makes whatever comes out of my mouth at that time particularly cutting. and it slices exactly because it’s true. i’m glad i have a long fuse.
actually, i am very unlikely to bs at any time. there’s something about bs that kind of makes me feel ill and i have a very low tolerance for it in general. it complicates life so much. say what you mean and mean what you say, and forget this stupid posturing and guessing and crap. phsaw.
on the personality question…i have a huge capacitiy for service, via strong mercury, and i’ve found though the years that can be taken advantage of very easily, or i can simply dump caring and energy into someone who is not going to make good use of it, thus leaving me frustrated and feeling unappreicated. so i am much more discriminating in whom i direct my helping energy towards now, and i do pay much more attention to what i get out of the deal too, to make sure it feeds me as well as the other person.
always thought provoking questions, elsa. thank you. 🙂
Mercury in Taurus (also my sun sign – slow), square Saturn (inhibited), square Pluto (obsessive) in the 12th house (intuitive). I’m slow to speak, and very inclined to answer no if someone pushes me before I’m ready to make a decision. I can almost read people’s minds, although I don’t consider myself psychic – just very sensitive (12th house?). Still, I always warn people not to bait the bull. When I lose it, I lose it good, and you will be verbally taken apart. I always give warning signsthat I’m about to blow, but I don’t say things I don’t mean – I always think things through. I am frequently sorry I said things afterwards, though, because I know the words I said, even though true, really hurt. These days I tend, rather than to argue in person, to write out my argument which gives me the chance to really ream someone then hit delete and send it to trash – no harm done and I’ve processed the emotions. I have much better relationships this way and working through my feelings this way lets me defuse the anger and deal with the underlying pain in a sane and rational fashion – I forget it ever happened. It works for me.
Sorry, to answer the question, I think what people say when they are angry is unfiltered, so it is true and they are responsible for it. The reason I write is so I never have to try to take back hurtful words. After 22 years with a verbally abusive man, I know how long those words can sting and an apology really never erases them.
I’ve reworked a lot. I am a lot less outwardly smothery-needy than I used to be. These days, I don’t feel so much, I stay detached, I let people do their own thing, I try not to get offended.
Unfortunately I can’t get rid of NEEDYNEEDYNEEDY entirely, but that hole will never be filled no matter what I do, and at least this way I don’t drive people away screaming. Now I understand why people were so annoyed at me back in the day, because people being needy now drives ME nuts. Go figure.
Actually, the fun thing about having less feelings and not caring so much is that I am a lot blunter and really feeling my Sag moon these days…I try not to outright kick someone in the crotch, but I now outright say what I’m thinking instead of holding it in so I don’t lose people and/or make them mad.
#1: Harsh words can inflict pain that isn’t erased by apologies…same with glib, oily words that others take for something real but are just opportunistic. I’m reminded of that book, Five Languages of Love, which asserts that people are especially responsive to one of five different expressions of love. These include Service, Words, Gifts, Attention, and one more that I can’t remember. (Not my language, I guess :)) I suppose those who fall into the Words group would be especially sensitive to all forms of communication. Words really count for something to some people, and they’re water off a duck’s back to others. If someone tells me something with enough conviction–even if I suspect it’s BS–I almost CAN’T disbelieve them.
#2: I have loads of Gemini and 3rd house: ultra-accommodating, obstacle-skirting. I used to find these virtues, but now think they make me invisible–to others and (worse) to myself. Am definitely working on materializing, and that means bumping into things. 🙂
Sun in Aries 8th house, Mercury in Gemini in 10th house. I blow up bridges with rage and relish and say exactly what I mean and nothing more. I can’t help but do it, especially if it involves a perceived injustice. Raging fast and furiously allows me to get over things pretty quickly though 🙂 But woe to those left in the wake.
I also have mercury conjunct mars and same thing with being direct and being held accountable for it. I mean what I say and have been told by people close to me that my words can be mean &/or insensitive….I don’t mean to be, I just answer what is asked. If it’s a pointed question, I give a pointed answer. I have tried to be more pleasant and careful with my word selections and tend to keep my mouth shut more than not to the point where people think I am near mute! This is also conjunct my sun in a fixed sign, so I identify words and actions with who I am…inflexible and black/white.
of course they count.
sometimes the only time i actually open up and talk about things is when i’m angry….
They count, though I wish they didn’t. There comes a point for me when I get really insanely angry at which I snap. I go completely ballistic, and it’s very unsettling because it’s like I black out. I honestly do not remember the things I say when this happens, but only know from what other people (who I trust) have told me. Needless to say I’ve worked very hard at learning to control my temper and this hasn’t happened in several years, but the potential exists, and it scares me.
Yes! I mean what I say, mad or otherwise. And YES I’ve been forced to deal with my personality and re-work.
And this part…
“feeling a person is responsible for what they say, regardless of your mood”
halle-freakin-lujah. These are exactly the words I’ve been looking for! Whether someone MEANS what you say in the heat of the moment may never be able to be determined accurately..BUT THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.
Thank you, again.
I think everyone means what they say when they are angry. They say it “doesn’t count” because it came out without any “P.C. wrapping” or strategising to go with it.
It’s raw, but it’s real.
Words matter & we are all responsible for what we put out there, no matter the situation. I am currently reworking something now, actually. While I generally mean what I say, there is often a tendency to gloss over how I feel. I’ll say something like, “it’s ok,” when it is totally not. Of course, I have no water in my chart, so communicating emotion has always been hard for me. Anyway, despite my mutual reception btwn Mars & Mercury, I rarely say anything in anger that I do not mean in some way. I may be harsh at times (sharpish), but never without cause, in my mind.
My late mother was bipolar and would say some pretty dreadful things when manic,and people would console themselves by saying “She didn’t mean it”. One time I asked her if this was true, and she told me that the mania gave her the courage to say what she really felt.
My mother came from that generation who were raised with the etiquette “if you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all”. I can only wonder to what degree repressing one’s true feelings factors into the development of what we call a “mental illness”.
Whether or not you say things in the heat of the moment, shoot-from-the-hip, or are under the influence of an altered reality, what cannot be ignored – or diminished – is the effect of what your words are on the recipient.
Some people get their licks in through humour, then say they didn’t mean it; that they were only joking.
Or they’ll say “That didn’t come out the way it was supposed to”.
I think we all struggle with articulating what we feel because a lot of the time, we really don’t know why we feel the way we do, or can identify the button that has been pushed.
I think it counts. This is one I’m pretty familiar with, too w Mars opp Uranus t- squaring Saturn. It took me a long time to learn how seriously people took my words and how much authority I had. And of course I saw myself as rather mild mannered with the Cancer sun/Virgo rising . . . ha, no.
Pisces Mercury hidden-conjunct Aries Sun in 2nd, Sun trine Mars in Leo.
I value honesty and always say what I feel to be correct. Mutual reception of Sun/Mars gives me courage and makes it easy for me to speak my mind.
When I’m angry, that’s when the mean, but true, stuff comes out. I actually feel better afterward because it’s always something I’ve been wanting to say for years.
I’ve always been very anti-authority, and was forced to tone that down (a bit) when I started working. Now that I have to go back to work, I’m afraid I won’t be able to contain that part of myself.
Having children made me much more compassionate, but that just happened on its own.
Cancer merc/mars in my 1st, I do say what I mean and mean what I say. I’ve also been fairly careful that when I’m upset my moon/jupiter doesn’t expand the situation and take over my mouth.
As for the second part/bled/burning, I think I’m working on that part right now…..
I think it does, yes. Mercury/Chiron square 8th House Saturn–I could really cut someone if I let myself fly.
Last night I was really angry…so angry. I walked about an hour and a half home just to work it off, knowing if I opened my mouth and said what I wanted to I’d do some lasting damage.
I’m glad I did, too…turns out the other person had WAY more crap on their plate than I even realized and they were just unable to communicate clearly, anything.
Does it count? Unfortunately yes because it causes real damage. If I say something in anger it is always emotionally spiced and is more severe than necessary. I always regret it and taking it back never makes it as it was before. Lessons learned…
I am an adult. I take full responsibility for myself, including my moods and my words. I am incredibly precise with my words, which is part of the reason I get so frustrated when people decide I mean something other than what I said.
I like your “I will say it all again if that will help you be clear.” I mean – truly, how DARE someone tell me what I meant? I’m totally going to borrow this the next time I need to defend myself.
It definitely counts.
I usually mean what I say (I chalk this up to my Mercury in Sagittarius). I also tend to take what other people say as being what they truly feel, for better or worse.
I am terrible and say awful things when I am am angry and in an argument. (Which isn’t often, but still). I’ve been better lately. I feel like such a piece of shit remembering some things I’ve said to people when my blood was boiling. I have trouble filtering sometimes… and for the record, I truly did not mean most of them. I just wanted to say what I thought would hurt the person I was arguing with the most, to thus “win” the argument. Obviously, I was the loser in those situations.