The Shadow Side Of Love (A Topic Coming Into Vogue)

As Saturn in Libra squares Pluto in Capricorn in the coming months the reality (Saturn/Capricorn) of the shadow side (Pluto) of love (Libra) is going to be your face.ย  Currently Mercury in Libra squaring is squaring Pluto which opens the door for a dialogue on this topic.

With Pluto involved the deeper you go, the deeper it leads you so I won’t hope to cover this in any way but I can provoke your thinking as someone did mine when they asked the soldier a beguiling question: “So who wants to get married more, you or her?”

I was taken aback. My first impulse was defensive (Saturn). What the hell kind of question is that? It seemed undermining somehow, at least potentially so I went after her motive (Pluto).

It turns out she is just some sort of a quirky mind so once I’d cleared her of wrongdoing, I thought about her question.

The first thing I determined was that the soldier and I do not have this kind of imbalance.ย  We both want to get married which is what he told her but as soon as I confirmed this I realized it was not usual. Generally speaking I think that typically there is one partner more interested in marriage then the other which opened a whole can of worms for me.

For example if you marry in a situation like this, is your marriage doomed?ย  How is that for a question?

I can’t say that I know the answer but I will tell you what I did turn up as fact.ย  Being willing to marry someone and wanting to marry them are two very different things.

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The Shadow Side Of Love (A Topic Coming Into Vogue) — 17 Comments

  1. Hey Elsa –

    Well I have been away from here for awhile due to all kinds of major bombs going off in my life……anyway, this is so funny, I was just talking to my husband over dinner about my sister’s marriage. I truly believe her husband married her because of pressure from his family, and I know my sister wanted to be married way more than he did.
    Though this marriage has produced two wonderful children, she should have ran the other way while she had the chance. I won’t bore anyone with the details, but he puts zero effort into being a husband and a father, and her life sucks. Sadly, this is her decision, and her life, and she is the one who has to want to change it, and all I can do is be as supportive of her as possible.

    Wow, you are getting married soon! Congratulations ๐Ÿ™‚

  2. well, my question would be, “why do either of you want to get married?”, but that is totally based on my own views. marriage, to me, is a legal thing. love is not. you have already decided you love each other and want to spend your lives together, so this woman’s question and legalities have no need to be involved.

    that said, mars in libra (balance), i think probably in most marriages both couples want to marry. relationships are defined by those in them. bottom line.

    quirky or not. you were right, what kind of question is that? and this is coming from the grand cardinal cross… i even have enough boundaries to mind my own business on that one!!

  3. I think this is an interesting question. My scorpio mind is already mulling over the deep on these things. I miss my ex terribly because of the compatibility and find it hard to go dating without some kind of quarantee that it would be authentic if it worked out. And no time for romance only – it has to be something that will stick. Because if we are compatible then I want to have kids and get married – and I think the man will want that too because I’m only looking at men (online) who say so in their profile. I think this brings up the dark angst i’ve held about dating men my own age. A fear, resistance.. and it might be to marriage.. not sure. So I’m using astrology. Used it with the ex and it was great – except the saturn square neptune in the composite chart – which blocked me having kids with him – the reality of the age difference crushed the ideal – even though the ideal was very real with him – he would have made an excellent father. Capricorn in the 3rd will be squaring my hidden libra planets so i’m sure it will all come to light.

    So far I’m shying away from almost all the men who have contacted me – only started last week though. Too much control I ask myself? Or the best way to get a baby in the oven with someone I can love and who will love me? My mercury mind will mull it over.

    This weekend I heard of a woman who paid for everything in the marriage, paid off the house, and the man would not even look for a job for 2 years let alone worked much. She’s gotten a divorce and he gets the house and she has to pay alimony to “keep him in the style he’s grown accustomed”. She’s 36 – just a year older than me. Woah. So even divorcing him doesn’t get her away from him living off her. Thankfully (?) there were no kids.

  4. Elsa: “For example if you marry in a situation like this, is your marriage doomed? How is that for a question?”

    I was surprised and pleased to see this today. It feels like a personal affirmation for me in an area that has been receiving clarity since the Leo lunar eclipse(ending the 1990/91 cycle for me). 1990 was when I married, divorced almost 5 years now. Seems like each time these past five years I think it’s a closed chapter for me, some other deep stuff will crop up..and it just kept stringing along.

    Pluto is transiting my early 7th, Saturn finishing my 4th. Anyway..it occurred to me yesterday after all the stuff I have worked through the past years concerning my marriage/divorce it all led back to a core of one thing.

    He wanted to marry me..and though I loved him, I, in and of myself, did not want to marry him. But I did..because he wanted it. And I guess because I was so young I thought it was the right thing to do..and too, was conditioned since childhood by my mother that it was the ONLY thing to do. Though that really sound like an excuse to me..so I shall check that one and just own it as I CHOSE to take the leap, no matter my age or previous conditions…even if I have yet to fully understand that for myself.

    So I did. I married him. And it was wrong. And, that one’s on me. So, when I realized that, it swept away all the ‘he did this and that’s’ and boo-hoo’s that came later in our relationship..the last of it seems to have resolved for me.

    It is somewhat strange to now be aware that time after time I have done this…before him, and once after. Entered a committed relationship(just one marriage though), due to the other person wanting it and me feeling like I had to be serving and good and comply. Fear of hurting the other maybe? Am not sure at this point..I feel I have much more to understand and watch unfold in this.

    It feels wonderful though to now be coming into this awareness, for I really do want a deep relationship in my life. This brings me one step closer. For that, I am thankful.

    Congrats Elsa and Soldier!! That is so COOL that the two of you are in the same ‘place and space’ on this!! ๐Ÿ™‚

  5. think you kind of know when it’s right, there isn’t that angst of “is he/she really as keen as me”..agree that imbalanced situation often runs into troubles. My teen marriage was definitely him wanting to own me, but this (thirty three years so far) marriage was begun with both of us actually not too bothered about the wedding, just wanting to be together all the time at a time when marriage made everything a bit simpler for us. We have yet to run out of wacky things to talk about and laugh about. We arranged a simple wedding together, hired the village hall,my mum made some food, his mum and dad organised a bar, I baked the cake, he iced it beautifully (he’s arty) and my son stirred all the mixtures together in the bowls for us, as well as being our ring bearer. Friends played music and the whole day was great. Smiling thinking about it..a for a time machine and we’d do it all again, yep definitely both. Excellent thread, thankyou, and wishes for a fantastic, smile filled wedding day for you and your soldier, Elsa!

  6. During my divorce my soon to be ex took me to see his guru as an attempt at reconciliation. The guru asked us our birthdays (as he taught astrology) and then asked us why we had wanted to get married in the first place.

    I said I wanted to have chidren and he said he wanted to grow old together. The guru said, “Well, you can see why it did not work. You wanted two different things. Let’s have lunch.” End of discussion.

    I think about this often as I did get what I wanted, two great children, and wonder if we’ll end up in rocking chairs on one of the kids porches when we get older. LOL!

    So that’s what I would be asking myself and my ‘intended’. What do you want from marriage?

    The Romans said it was the plague but the Greeks talk about split aparts- that marriage which is made in heaven and no man can put asunder. We can socialize and idealize ourselves into a legal bond, but what is the spiritual bond? The bond that won’t go away. I believe it goes beyond chemistry. It just is.

    The ceremony afterward is just to “present” our community with the understanding of our bond so that we can help each other honor them? Whew! Is that what the Saturn in Libra is?

  7. Because I have a lot of water and a lot of fire, it’s hard to combine those, so I often feel that my Cancer sun is getting the short end of the stick.

    But one area where I am all Cancer is weddings. I cannot NOT cry at a wedding. Especially the simple, heartfelt ones like Lynne E describes.

    That is a weird question for someone to ask – who wants to get married more. Reminds me of when I told my then-workplace that I was getting married. Some goon said “when’s the baby due?” I guess because I was youngish at the time (22). He did not mean it in a nice way, though ๐Ÿ™‚ !

  8. When I got hitched, we both wanted to do it. And we both had people trying to tell us it was a bad idea in one form or another. (He had 2 kids and a nasty ex; I was pregnant.) I’m sure glad we ignored them!

    Have a friend where the woman wanted to get married more than the guy, who probably would have been happy with living together at that point. They’ve had a few rough – during which time this came up, and basically, he ended up reaffirming he absolutely wanted to be married to her. Otherwise, they probably still wouldn’t be. They’ve been together for about 17 years now.

  9. I’m glad you ignored them, too:)

    I’ve never understood these kinds of questions. My brain isn’t wired that way at all. I guess theoretically it’s possible one could want it more than the other but I’d find it, er, rude to ask…

  10. This is going to be long, I can tell. So, sorry in advance. *laughs*

    “Being willing to marry someone and wanting to marry them are two very different things.”
    Very, very true.
    After my seperation, my ex hooked up with the young, “exciting” herion addict from work that he’d had his eye on for the last month of our relationship. Later, he sent me an email cutting off contact and sent it to her as well, unbeknownst to me (which made me wonder if she “made” him do it, since he later said he never wanted to stop talking… but I digress). After that day, I started getting mail, forwards of the things he sent and her replies, very petty but I have to admit it worked… especially the one where he professed his love for her, then one the next month where he said he wanted to marry her. ๐Ÿ™
    During one of the conversations we had before I moved out, he admitted to me that, while he always thought of me in his life, he had never wanted to marry me, so reading that mail (I know, I should have deleted them unread. Gah!) was extremely wounding, even if he qualified it with an “eventually.” In a way, though, it was a failure: the same mail in which he said he wanted to marry her was also talking about all the problems they were having. And they split just a week or so later. *rueful chuckle*

    Moving on now…

    “We can socialize and idealize ourselves into a legal bond, but what is the spiritual bond? The bond that wonโ€™t go away. I believe it goes beyond chemistry. It just is.
    The ceremony afterward is just to โ€œpresentโ€ our community with the understanding of our bond so that we can help each other honor them?”

    This is why I wanted to get married to the aforementioned guy. I’ve never been much for monogamy, let alone marriage, but with this man I wanted both. I felt something that was indescribable and infinite, and, yes, it’s still here which is why it’s painful to hit the edges of the wound. *sigh* That’s a whole other topic, though.
    I wanted the legal protections that being married afforded (the right of next-of-kin, for example), the affirmation before our families and loved ones. Less than one year into our relationship, we were already talking about our dotage and retirement plans, and I didn’t see why not to take advantage of the law if we were already planning the rest of our lives together.
    Unfortunately, he never saw it that way. Why I don’t think I’ll ever understand, but there it is.

  11. Wow… the whole Venus and Pluto + Shadow thing is really fitting for what started to happen in my life, in regards to someone I mentioned here earlier. When I found out about something in November, I should have cut contact at that point, but I decided to see what he chose to do… he lied about the situation (that happened during Mars Retro – I had a miserable Christmas, but it’s partially my own fault), and the truth came out in June of this year. (We’d barely been in contact since February, due to my strong feelings surrounding it and him – I was right.)

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