Suffering With A Grand Cross vs A Chart O’ Trines

gradI was talking to my pal and astrologer, Claire France Perez about suffering. She thinks love means suffering and pointed out that I do quite a bit of it.

“I suffer?”

“Yes.”

“Okay, yeah I do,” I said.

And my sister (who has a Grand Cross in her chart) had a theory that the suffering of some allow others to avoid suffering. She was specifically talking about people with difficult charts like hers in comparison to people with charts full of trines.

I just stared at the time, but have come to agree with her. What about you?

Does one person’s suffering ease another’s?

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Suffering With A Grand Cross vs A Chart O’ Trines — 26 Comments

  1. I don’t know about the cosmic balance of suffering, but I do agree that those with squares and oppositions seem to have a harder time of life. However, I met a woman whose chart is full of trines, no squares, and she admits that while she has had an “easy” life, it is also one of little ambition or drive. Things comes easy to her, but she’s never had to “achieve”, or tried to.

    My take on it is not that one suffers in place of another, but that suffering can bring its reward. Never facing suffering has its own setbacks, too.

    I don’t really know, but to quote a story I heard from a Buddhist monk once, about the difference between pain and suffering: “Suffering is when you don’t want the pain.” I try to think about that when I’m crossing hurdles.

  2. I have a Fixed Grand Cross in my chart involving Sun, Saturn, Moon, Mars, Neptune. Honestly, I have been lucky I’ve never fallen into depression, I’ve never really had to “suffer” on a material plane as not having anything to eat or something like that.

    I’ve gradually learned to live with it thanks to astrology and I’m really grateful for being able to understand where the pain is coming from.

    But oh boy I know about pain that won’t necessarily show on the surface and if one suffering of mine has been easing somebody else’s, and knowing that my pain wasn’t useless, that would be a great kind of salvation, you know.

  3. anesa, what a poignant comment. I am certain my sister is right. I think I can make this very clear and plan to write about this, asap. Hopefully today.

  4. Hello,
    I just learned that I have a fixed grand cross in my natal chart. All of this is new to me. I don’t recognize the planets involved yet. A friend informed me of the cross but didn’t elaborate on the details. I have endured much suffering and pain in this lifetime. One of the things that I have wondered about was the usefulness of this suffering for myself and my loved ones. I would rather suffer whatever than to have mu children suffer. The suffering in the world concerns me deeply. It breaks my heart. I have to believe that this suffering is meaningful and productive on the spiritual level. I have learned so much and I accept things the way that they have come to me.

  5. The only person I know with multiple trines in his chart is bipolar. He suffers plenty even though “things” seem to come to him easy. Like this: He gets a good job that he’s excited about then suddenly decides said job isn’t going to work and quits to make a living from art. Then gets depressed because it’s not progressing like he thinks it should so he finds a new job he’s excited about and the cycle repeats. Add in multiple hook- and break-ups and his life is the kind of chaos that would drive me nuts. But it seems to work for him, so. . . 🙂

  6. I have mars conjunct Jupiter in the first house making a trine to venus in the fifth and then all of them coming together at my taurus midheaven/chiron causing two grand earth trines..and Most of my life Has been kinda Miserable..

    My step Brother also has like four Trines, and almost no squares, But i Don’t picture him as being “happy” either.. What I can say is that he is Very kind and loving, and extremely intelligent, and very Gifted at many Things..but i wouldn’t call his life easy..

    My mother on the other Hand, Has a fixed grand Cross.. She Spent most of her life being an angry person and Blaming other people for things ..she didn’t seem to develop the capacity to understand integrative change until just recently, in her fifties.

  7. This is my favorite Zen quote on suffering:
    “Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.”

    Aside from a grand cross are there other aspects, configurations or whatever that spells “suffering”?

  8. I really am enjoying this thread. From my experience, suffering seems to follow fixidity (?) Both my daughters have fixed grand crosses, one is fixed fire (Sun in Leo), the other fixed earth (Sun in Taurus). They have had more downs than ups lately but they are the most resilient little souls I have ever met.

    What about t-squares? I have trines in my chart, and a lovely “mutable” t-square with Pluto in Virgo in the 2nd as the focal planet. The empty leg is in the 8th – not a fun time.

    Can someone be oblivious to the fact that they are suffering? And if they are – are they truly suffering?

  9. I once wondered why I seemed to be reaping some seriously bad karma. But I look at the lives around me, and how they were ‘saved’ time and time again from destruction. I think maybe my life is the suck so that they can have better ones. I’m not sure I’m this generous, so clearly this whole karma replacement thing was against my will.

  10. Oh yeah, absolutely. It’s that ‘thank goodness that didn’t happen to me’ relief. Makes one appreciate their life a little bit more for a while.

    I’ve got a mutable t-square too, poesia, empty leg in the 12th. It causes me suffering, but I do believe suffering, at its best, is often impetus to act and improve and gain in empathy. Empathy is so important.

  11. Hello again, Elsa and my compliments for your interesting blog (though I guess you very well know it yourself, you don’t actually need them:)

    The karmic interpretation might also be worth considering. People with ‘easy lives’ may still be affected by a compensation principle, they don’t actually have some sort of privilege.

    And yes, some people learn empathy from their own suffering – though, despite my strongly cultivated optimism, I sometimes still doubt they can actively remeber the lessons when they feel threatend or when they have to choose between others’ suffering/discomfort and their own.

    Others natively have empathy. I’ve noticed it has to do with some neptune-moon-pluto energy dynamics (and a mind that is goog enough to prevent misuse). I know some people with moon-neptune in scorpio or with moon in pisces aspected by pluto who can actually feel other people’s pain.

  12. I have fixed grand cross ive suffered unspeakable crap if its never g PO nna get any better im offing myself to know I suffer so others dont fuck that people dont even like me if life is a gift I hope god or whatever kept the receipt cuz im returning this shit done

  13. Interesting. Never equated a natal CGC to suffering before. Makes sense since my whole existance sort of revolves around overcoming one crisis after another. I believe in Cosmic Balance, though. It’s illogical to assume everything can and should be 100% fine in everyone’s Life all the time. It’s not realistic. I am somehow relieved to see things in this perspective – your sister’s perspective.

  14. Hi! I have a fixed grand cross with pluto/moon/mars/saturn/mercury involving. I think ones suffering ease others is true. Aside from all other trouble areas i had a hard childhood in many ways. Now i have a niece and a nephew and i can easily understand what they going through how solve it easily im more than happy helping. It was the 4th house area. But also i have a huge 10th house motivation because of cross touch it. Im still struggling with that area seeing all falses living downs..but once solve it for myself want to solve it for them all.

  15. Yes. Some people are born to help transmute the karma of others. They are something of a “time adjuster” to help the evolution of others. The burdens of a grand cross can seem overwhelming to an outsider, but its my position these natives do no suffer over their suffering and the chain effect is thereby buried with them.

  16. I think suffering is the vehicle of evolution. That being said, you can choose the way you want to suffer. Integrating time and space is a suffering. Being patient is suffering. I’d say that patience is the only virtue. You have to be willing to accept set-backs. Eventually, you will succeed without too much suffering if you are patient. The cross is the intersection of the axis of time with the axis of space.

  17. I have a Grand cross between neptune and uranus in conjunction (house 2 capricorn), moon and venus ( 4th house aries), mars (on 8th cuspide in cancer), jupiter (10th house in libra)… I honestly don’t know what to say about it, astrologers that have seen it say i will overcome a lot and have success… It seems too overrated, as pretty much everything gets very hard to obtain… I can’t even remember some moderately calm periods of my life… Everything seemed a mess, always)

  18. I have a mutable Grand Cross with Sun in Pisces, square Mars in Gemini, square Pluto in Virgo, square Jupiter in Sagittarius. There is also Mercury in Pisces opposite Moon in Virgo and other difficult aspects. And a Yod.

    I first discovered my GC at age 24 when studying astrology and it has helped me to understand something about the difficulty of my life. It seems to me that I have suffered a lot since childhood and have not had a “straight path” through life. It was as if everything was difficult, everything except acquiring knowledge and studying. (Jupiter in Sag in the 9th House).

    I’ve made a lot of mistakes with sad consequences and spent most of my time and resources studying, learning, meditating, having all kinds of treatment and therapy, doing workshops and courses and trying to heal and feel better and understand. I am currently having trauma therapy which I hope will help me.
    I can only speak about the particular GC that I have which seems to create inner conflict, pulled in opposing directions, inability to make decisions followed by impulsiveness and sudden changes, a feeling of being stuck and unable to move.
    I have come to a sense of incredible inner resourcefulness, knowledge, strength, confidence and flexibility, as if I can do anything or cope with anything, because I’ve been through so much. And yet at the moment I’m feeling stuck and unmotivated and fed up. I’m treading water.

    I think that I’ve been given a great deal of talent, ability and intelligence and somehow have not been able to use it – almost as if the brakes are on. I’ve tried so many things, work and projects and relationships, but don’t stick with anything. I complete a project or qualification and then go and do something completely different. One odd thing is that I have had lots of job offers despite my chequered career. I have to move on, keep changing things. I’ve spent a lot of my life just fire-fighting, lurching from one misery to another or just trying to get through the day. When i was younger I experienced an unbearable sense of inner tension, like a tightness in my body and this was only relieved through yoga and meditation. At the same time I was emotionally distraught and had anxiety and depression from childhood until I was forty years old.

    I often thought I must have really bad karma to get a chart and life like this, but on the plus side I’ve learned so much and am not the nervous wreck I used to be. I just don’t know what to do with my life now. I feel I must focus on my spiritual development and use my skills to help others, but I’ve collapsed into a kind of chronic laziness.
    The GC makes demands, creates challenges and offers rewards. The danger is that opposing forces create inertia, stagnation and immobility.

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