I have a lot of clients on the fence about a relationship right now, they are primarily, Piscean. It’s because Saturn has been retrograde in the opposite sign, Virgo so while they feel pressured to “do the right thing”, they have not been able to comply because they’ve not been able discern what the right thing is.
Many of them want commitment from the partner who may or may not want the same and there is confusion around how demanding or expressive they should be. Others are confused about what they want (or deserve) but for what it may be worth I want throw this out here.
I am in a strong relationship and the reason why can be traced back several years to when Saturn was in my 7th house (an equivalent transit to what Pisces / Pisces rising has going now). The soldier and I were contemplating getting together and he told me in no uncertain terms what he would and would not do – what he was and was not interested in. He DEFINED this.
He specifically told me he did not want to be in another failed relationship or marriage. He meant in his life. He was adamant in saying he would rather be alone for the rest of his life than fail in another relationship. He said this was not a light thing to him and he would appreciate my understanding this.
If you think I responded, “Deal me in,” I did not! I listened carefully and retreated for WEEKS. It took me at least a month to think things through, check my feelings, discuss things with my friends, etc. before I came to the conclusion I wanted to go forward. We did go forward, we have kept our word(s) to each other and our relationship is… well I believe it to be impenetrable.
I am telling you this to let you know that had he not been specific and uncompromising, I don’t think we’d be where we are. Had he said, “We’ll get together and see how it goes…” I think it might have gone differently with a flighty type like me but as it was I made the commitment.
So you gals, if you want the commitment, ask for it because your man might be like me. It might take him awhile, it sure took me awhile but if you refuse to define this (Saturn) you’ve got no chance.
Saturn is slow but permanent. Uranus is aspecting so you are looking for permanent change (Uranus) and real (Saturn) liberation (Uranus).
Note in this story, the soldier’s patience and the level of his maturity. “I can’t answer that,”I’d say. “I have to discover my feelings and I’ve not managed…”
Eventually I managed and I can’t tell you how glad I am he did not relax his standard. “If you won’t take this deal, how about this one, this one, or this one?”
If he’d have done that we’d still be negotiating…
Saturn goes direct May 16th. Clarity is coming.
“I am he did not relax his standard”
“If he’d have done that we’d still be negotiating”
especially with Libra? tee hee
This post prompted me to check where Saturn was when my partner had an accident and almost died…didn’t die but his injuries were horrific and his rehabilitation was obviously going to take years.
Yup, it was in my 7th House, and his 1st (opposing his natal Saturn in his 7th).
That was also the one and only time he asked me to marry him. I said no, only because he was so incredibly INSANE from oxycontin I didn’t want to take advantage;)
He defined himself and he did such a good job of it, it forced me to think deeply about how I could or would define myself and notice he exerted NO PRESSURE.
Elsa, you have written many things that have impacted me, but this may top them!
I have no Pisces, I have only a 12th house moon and heavy Neptune, but what you say really resonates. I have been struggling with “doing the right thing.” I have let it slowly develop, but I need to do what the Soldier has – I need to define. The statement “I would rather be alone” is very convincing and very moving for a Venus-ruled person like that. Thank you for sharing, for this is helping give me the courage to not relax my standards.
Saturn is stationing in my 3rd and *rules* my 7th so it is time to communicate about this.
Thank you thank you thank you!!!!
Well I’ve noticed that with people who have a lot of integrity…they don’t feel the need to force their hand in the way less scrupulous people do. If you force someone to do/be/commit the way you want them to, do you really think they’ll be happy with you later???
9 times out of 10 the person being pressured resents the heavy-hand…sooner or later.
Thank you from me as well. I’ve passed this on to a friend who has saturn transiting her 7th and has asked her old boyfriend to go back out and he is saying how he would like it to be. She is struggling. I sent her this link.
As well my ex is pisces and i’ve been thinking of changes that are going on in my life and wanting to communicate them with him. Seems fitting that i’m thinking of asking him for coffee soon. Clarity. I’m wanting to be clear.
Saturn is transiting my 11th and I want friends who will support me in getting me what i want rather than just being critical. I’m struggling with that as well. I tried to define with my one friend what i wanted from him in listening and supporting me and he didn’t seem to get it.
this is excellent!
OMG. Yes. I am a Pisces with Aquarius rising. Saturn has been in my 7th house now since it hit 14 Leo and will remain there until it reaches 3 Libra. I guess they – whoever “they” are – wanted to make sure I get it this time. I’m glad it’s going forward soon… wish my love life would too!
“I guess they – whoever “they” are – wanted to make sure I get it this time.”
Lorielle – “THEEEY” piss me off as well. I have Saturn on top Mercury one way or the other 7.5 years out of 10!
Well, I will sheepishly admit that BF and I got back together after a few days of talking things out (I was SURE it was over, and I don’t like drama, it was more out-of-left field 12th H Mars fury, prob transiting Uranus conjunct my natal Saturn in the 7th too, but… well anyway) and I think it just is enormously helpful to admit who you are and what you need.
I have Pisces Saturn in the 7th ( and Venus Libra) and I assure you that I am not going to take anyone seriously if he doesn’t want to marry me. I know that even a very loving, committed relationship is not going to be enough for me. I feel offended if I am with someone for a while and acting like a wife and am devoted and love him completely and he doesn’t count his good fortune and scoop me up. God bless all of you who are independent and happy and don’t need anyone, but I am just not that way.
I’m not really able to just love somebody fully and live in the moment without thinking of the future. Probably because, for me, the commitment is what allows me to give my all. I can throw myself into it for a time, but then I feel the balance is off and I need to move to the next step.
I’ve been clear, message has been received and both of us are in for concrete planning. I am much more relaxed now that I have literally said out loud “I want to marry you” and he has told me the same. On my end, it’s not about pressure, it is just speaking my truth.
I know there are a few other 7H Saturns here (maybe goddess & Kris??)so I would be interested to see what their thoughts are as well.
Uranus is aspecting so you are looking for permanent change (Uranus) and real (Saturn) liberation (Uranus).
Yes, Uranus is one degree from my sun now and three from my moon in Pisces. Saturn retro there in Virgo conjuncting my Pluto conj. North Node in the 12th. I’m looking for permanent change and real liberation topped with total transformation. Why not do it all at once??!!!
thanks, Elsa….love your always ever helpful posts on all matters under the sun
“love your always ever helpful posts on all matters under the sun”
I laughed my ass off at that. I’m both proud an embarrassed of my deranged personality. 🙂
this is the perfect blog today. in fact, today (yesterday as well) you are on fire. I’ve been looking forward to the star trek movie for yeeeeears and while I watched it tonight I thought of two recent blogs. those two blogs together with a concept from the movie gave me a total epiphany. amazing.
okay, so everyone get an Elsa consult and go see the start trek movie.
Wow Elsa. This moved me. I applied it to my story with my DBF and it really helped me reframe things. He’s Pisces through and through (and also cancer/scorp) and I’m a lot of earth. In the beginning, it was like he slipped through my fingers. I finally walked away (he didn’t seem to grab hold). And once I did, he came back and said he wanted me. And we’ve been together ever since. But I think it took some definition there. Some “this or that” and he chose.
I always felt kind of bad about it, but now I see that it may have been necessary for him to have to make that choice so precisely.
So is the only difference between an ultimatum and a declaration of wants/needs/expectation the way it is expressed? Hysterical vs calm?
Pixie, I think it’s controlling vs informative.
Pisces Rising, Pisces Sun. I’ve been working lately to define the kind of relationships I want with my romantic partners(A realtionship with freedom yet stability). Spot on in your reading.
I’ll bet the interpretation of which it is would be very subjective, though, satori! 🙂
Think I commented on another section for this piece. Pisces Rising & Pisces Sun. Lately I’ve been mulling over the kind of love realtionship I desire. Ideally I would like one with freedom but some stabilty. Thanks for this post. Spot on with your reading.
“So is the only difference between an ultimatum and a declaration of wants/needs/expectation the way it is expressed? Hysterical vs calm?”
There was no ultimatum involved. One party had just thought deeply about what they wanted (or more specifically did not want)and told the other party. The other party listened, respected the first party so decided on the spot she’s not get involved unless very, very serious.
She also thought she had a lack. She was old enough she should be able to define herself as clearly as he did so she went deep into herself and her psyche PLUS consulted extensively and she had a break through.
Notice the boundaries on both sides. I accepted his reality… did not try to reduce it or water it down. In turn, he did not impinge on me in way shape or form.
He asked for nothing, is what I am saying.
Pixie, I think interpretation would only be subjective to the degree to which the listener has got a hold of themselves! Elsa has strong boundaries as she says, so she saw that the Soldier was just defining himself and not trying to define her. And I think if you’re going to define yourself, you have to be prepared that your listener either take it or leave it.
Right now, Neptune can bite me.
Jilly, the worst transit of my entire life was a Neptune transit… ::sighs::
yep, i’m a 7th house saturn in pisces here, sq. my moon no less, pixie. 🙂
buliding on what’s been said already: to me the diff between ultimiatum and declaration is about attempting to control the other party or not.
ultimatium is “you have X months to clean up your act or I will do Y” said with the intent to get the other person to make the changes you desire them to make. this is a threat, with focus on pushing the other party into your desired behavior. the speaker may or may not have intention on following through.
declaration is, “i want this for me. if you want the same thing, maybe we can get it to together.” but the clincher is that you have to respect it if they don’t want the same thing and go about looking for what you do want. the responsibility stays squarely on your own shoulders for your own happiness here.
The soldier rocks. I wish I could pull this off myself with someone. Maybe someday I will, who knows. (It’s easier to lay down the law when you are older and not so likely to “change your mind”, or have your partner assume you will.) But I could totally see myself saying that the next try is the LAST try. If that one doesn’t work, I am done, and I can’t be casual about it any more. Do or die alone. Either you’re in all the way or not at all, but we can’t just “see how it goes.” I’m not adamantly “we must get married,” but we can’t break up 😛
Clarity! so looking forward!
I have such an awesome day planned for tomorrow. Full of hard work and cleaning up around the house (Saturn virgo, anyone?) and starting on my next set of goals.
I am excited about house work, can you imagine that?! My Sag moon is amused.
Everything I’ve read today seems to have a message for me written it. Almost like you’ve plucked stuff out of my brain and chosen the exact right moment to write about it.
Thanks for the (unknowing) help.
Very interesting. The bit about ‘doing the right thing’ really resonates. I’ve been saying this a lot recently! I am a pisces (sagittarius rising) and have been in a relationship with a cancerian (pisces rising) for the past year and half. We are ‘on and off’ because, while we enjoy each other’s company and have a good time together, I am not sure if he is ‘up’ to being in a relationship with me ..that is to say, I don’t know if he has the same standards as me. From the start, I have been the one calling the shots and defining what I want from the relationship and he just goes along with whatever I say, which makes me question his integrity. At the moment we’re off, mainly because I need someone who knows what they want and stands up to me.
“I accepted his reality… did not try to reduce it or water it down.”
I’ve found there’re a lot of people who do not like to accept anyone’s reality but their own, which is something that I’m slowly but surely getting frustrated with and weeding out of my life. I like having such a good example to point to when I need it. *grins*