Saturn Square Pluto = Paranoid Fear-Mongers?

It occurred to me the concept of a person being a paranoid fear-monger is becoming popular. I figure the people who others refer to in this way resonate with the Saturn Pluto square and the people doing the tagging resonate with something else.

The thing is, even if you point at something and call it dirty, rotten, filth it does not remove it from existence. The so-called “paranoid fear-monger” is still there as is the reality that unnerves him or her.

Quite a puzzle. Got a solution?

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Saturn Square Pluto = Paranoid Fear-Mongers? — 31 Comments

  1. I think “paranoid fear-mongering” is inevitable at a time in history when changes are happening faster and faster, bigger and bigger. Sometimes I get knocked off kilter by events and I buy into the same world-view, I think we all do that every so often, then we have to give ourselves a good slap and force ourselves back into hope-and-faith-for-the- future mode, because if we can’t manage that, if we get dragged into the vortex of hopelessness, then that’s pretty much game over, we end up dying of toxic emotions and tranquillisers. The question is, if it is Saturn-Pluto-aspected people who are responsible for disseminating all this paranoia, does their natal aspect protect them from the self-destructive consequences? Do they feel at home in such turmoil and darkness? Beats me.

  2. Lessons that I have learned over the past year or so since I really started studying astrology is about the idea of incorporating the energies of the planets into our lives. By this, I mean accepting that the energy is there and we can choose to use that energy in a positive way. For instance, I used to think that technology was bad for humans and was the cause of humans’ isolation from one another. But now I feel that having “accepted” Uranus and the energies it offers, I’ve chosen to believe that we can use technology to our benefit. Humans don’t have to use technology for nuclear weapons that could destroy our race. We can choose to use it to for sustainable farming, improve our connections to one another instead of inhibit it, use it to create cures for various diseases, etc. It’s the same in the case of Pluto. Pluto is a tough one though because it encompasses energies of fear and darkness, the taboo. The dark side of Pluto is very, very dark. Pluto is the Lord of the Underworld and we stuff things down there that are too ugly to want to deal with willingly. The solution, I think, is to get past the fear. As you were saying, Elsa, pointing the finger in disdain doesn’t make the ugliness go away. Acknowledgment and acceptance of the ugly would be the first step in using it to heal, transform, and grow, which in that case we would be using Pluto’s energy in the positive way that it I believe it is meant to be used.

  3. I can add that Saturn helps us to be realistic about the energies that Pluto offers us and encourages us (even though it is quite difficult, like Mom yelling at you to get out of bed) to get going on this.

  4. Just like you said, Elsa, you find out what your fear is and then figure out what to do with it.

    Michael, sometimes I think the hope-and-faith-in-the-future mode is ignoring reality. I need this for my own sanity, to feel comfortable and secure in life (Jupiter in Pisces in the 1st). It is easier for me then to ponder what is happening.

    Paranoid fearmongering is a lot like not breathing into a yoga exercise, you are focused on the pain and tension and are never going to get through the moment and enjoy it.

  5. Sure, Dina, I don’t mean we should just stick our heads in the sand when any difficult issues come up – of course we should try and root out the problems and deal with them, if we can. But lots of us have so many knee-jerk fears that there’s always a whole bunch waiting in the psychological in-tray, and we have to take care not to get overwhelmed by them. What I meant is that while fear and despair can easily become a habit (it was for me), it is possible to turn hope into a habit, and it’s a hell of a relief if you manage to do so.

  6. Michael, correct me if I’m wrong, but what I’m taking from what you’re saying is not necessarily this idea of a blinded hope for the future, because some reality and acknowledgment of current circumstances needs to be involved in the solution, but that carrying a positive intention without necessarily knowing what to expect as a result is a part of getting to the solution?

  7. That’s pretty much it, Caroline – maybe it’s all been sheer coincidence, but I have found that a positive attitude (yuk – it’s a phrase that’s been cheapened by marketing, but it means what it means) plus hard work has got me to places I never hoped to get to. In the past I was just doing the hard work and expecting the worst. And the worst is what I tended to get.

  8. Yeah, I have found the same for myself as well!

    The Upanishads state:

    beware of your thoughts for they become your words; beware of your words for they become your actions; beware of your actions for they become your habits; beware of your habits for they come your destiny.

    I’ve found that to be so true. Our thoughts are so powerful.

  9. Yeah, I have found the same for myself as well!

    The Upanishads state:

    beware of your thoughts for they become your words; beware of your words for they become your actions; beware of your actions for they become your habits; beware of your habits for they become your destiny.

    I’ve found that to be so true. Our thoughts are so powerful.

  10. I have friends and family that represent the liberal and conservative camps. I live somewhere in between the two.

    What I have noticed is that both camps are scared, and lack faith in God/Universe and in their fellow man.

  11. Thanks for that, Caroline. That puts the power of suggestion succinctly. Another example – my mother is neurotic to say the least, and she can’t take any medication because every time she takes a pill, she’s thinking: “This isn’t going to agree with me, this is going to make me feel ill, etc”
    And what do you know – she’s always right!

  12. Elsa, as someone writing from Europe, I’m curious to know how exactly would the “paranoid-fear-mongering” be defined there ? For instance, is it enough to be labelled one telling that the financial crisis that hit us all globally will continue resonating in the real economy for years (maybe a decade)? Or should one go for us all dying as the Planet Niburu will hit us in 2012 ?

  13. “I’m curious to know how exactly would the “paranoid-fear-mongering” be defined there ? ”

    I don’t know. It depends on the person applying the label.

  14. Michael, I totally agree with you. I used to take hope to the head in the sand route and now I take the fearful every day route. But I mean, how much does it really help to b fearful and obsess, right? Sometimes you have to enjoy. Maybe I’m not wrong in my approach. My hiding my head in the sand approach, I mean.

  15. I most often see this label applied to something someone else says the speaker doesn’t like.

    While I’m way on being positive and optimistic, people seem to dismiss the fact that in certain situations, fear or paranoia are utterly appropriate responses. Ugliness exists and if we’re insistent upon being blind to it, it becomes rather hard to circumnavigate it.

  16. ‘Positive thinking does little to impact things like Bubonic Plague.’
    That’s true, but fortunately I haven’t had to deal with anything as serious as that. On the other hand, it is pretty useful for the everyday plagues like obsessive anxiety and fear. I know – I’ve tried both ways of thinking, the neg. and the pos.!

  17. Elsa, I agree positive thinking only influences what happens to us in the sense that we can learn the most and grow the most from the external circumstances that we cannot control. “Fear mongers” inhibit their growth by separating themselves from the situation instead of facing it squarely.

  18. Elsa, I was asking this because a common stereotype about Americans almost anywhere abroad is that you are optimistic go-getters convinced of reaching any goal by their sheer determination. And that’s pretty much how most Americans I’ve ever dealed with professionally (boards are a different thing) have wanted to potray themselves.

    Of course, not all of us are like that, anywhere, and many would just be following the cultural norm. Those people may feel threatened by the views that others would call just sane realism and label them fear mongering. On the other hand, the idea that people are able to achieve just about anything if they just put their minds on it, may actually turn people to paranoia, as proven by the success of conspiracy theories in the US. When a disaster strikes, to some it’s may just be easier to think that there is some ellaborated conspiracy behind than to admit that humans are humans, making mistakes than can be very costly.

  19. I stay away from the paranoia by simply accepting the things I cannot change and trying to find the positive, I guess. My friend fears something like a plague, and I told her that I’d rather go that way than, say, being mutilated or tortured to death or something worse.

    All about perspective and stuff.

  20. I saw Bill Maher on Sunday at Lincoln Center (!!) and he mentioned something along the lines of conservatism being founded in fear. And I also just read about someone commenting on Liz Greene pointing out that many people in the Bush administration have Saturn and Pluto.

  21. Dina, in a different way, it could be said that the strengths of conservatism (whenever they show up) lie in being willing to accept frightening and hard things in life and be willing to use power and take responsibility.

    Well ideally that would be true anyway. Life has a habit of being less than ideal. :p

  22. Deb, I agree with you… and I try tackling things on a micro-level when possible. Sometimes I take a warm bath at night and take pause to be grateful that I can–there are hundreds of millions of people who are unable to do this at the end of a hard day.

    Clean water, a warm bed, access to food, people who love me. Gratitude keeps paranoia at bay–at least for me, inside my head.

  23. People who are so under-optimistic get on my nerves! I understand that you should be realistic, but come on! Don’t make the gloom come true by making it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

  24. We can be both. There’s a time to be optimistic, and a time to be realistic. But big-time fear? Big-time fear makes for chaos. I don’t like chaos– nothing gets solved and it’s messy.

  25. I have noticed a lot of people around me are excited and truly energized by the atmosphere at the moment, which is a combination of paranoid-fear, what-next?!, and at last, we can really start fixing some stuff. There’s a sense that we are living in momentous times.

    I know many people resist and hate change but just as many thrive on turmoil, upheaval and eventually transformation – how plutonic is that. I wonder if this has anything to do with having a Saturn Pluto opposition or trine in the birthchart.

  26. our perceptions of risk are all skewed. we’re designed to weight our focus on short term, highly mentioned, visceral threats, rather than long term, boring, elephants in the room.

    thus why i try to avoid tv and tv news. the stuff that keeps getting brought up can skew your perception of reality. i remember how living around people watching crime shows all the time started to affect my sense of trust in common everyday situations… i could feel it shifting.

    bruce schneier discusses this stuff quite a bit in his risk analysis posts.

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