There’s a gal I know, I consider her to be scrupulous. Not in a negative way, where OCD meets religion. She’s just careful to try to do the right thing even if it’s terribly hard.
I’m this way myself, to a lessor degree. If I wanted to be more attentive, I’d use her as a model.
Most would probably associate scrupulosity with a Virgo’s desire to be perfect, but I don’t think that’s it. I think this trait belong to the combination of Jupiter and Saturn. A person wants to rigidly adhere to their principles, whatever those principles are.
This topic will come to the front, with Saturn in Sagittarius. Walk your talk, as they say.
Are you a scrupulous person?
Yes. And I agree with the Jupiter-Saturn characterization. I was born with the conjunction. I think this combination can be highly ethical if used properly, because these people are able to see the wide-ranging (Jupiter) consequences (Saturn) of their behavior, not just for themselves, but for the world.
couldn’t said it better
I like this topic. There are many ways this plays…like people who are strict vegetarians.
My grandfather, Henry is a Jupiter/Saturn type…he never raised his voice. It was quite incredible, because the rest of us are MARS MERCURY mouths on fire.
I aspire to be scrupulous…I admire it. But I fall way, way short.
It’s also interesting to compare this extreme with people who are unscrupulous.
It’s choice, but not always so each to make and maintain.
I can see what you are saying Elsa. I’ve been told many times over the years that I don’t seem or act like a Sag. Even though I have a triple conjunction of three Sag personal planets to a Sag ascendant. I’ve always wondered why most don’t see that in my personality. I think it has to do with the fact I have Jupiter conjunct Saturn (and a moon in Taurus. It’s that Jupiter conjunct Saturn (out of sign–Saturn is at the end of first house Capricorn and Jupiter is in beginning of second house Aquarius) that I’ve recently come to appreciate because it gives me herculean stamina in pursuing what I think and feel is right for me. Although Jupiter makes very few aspects in my natal chart Saturn is well integrated with “easy” aspects. Am I scrupulous? I do have a strong sense of what is my personal truth. I live by my own code and that includes a strong sense that others have the right by birth to be treated with respect and dignity.
I agree with this. I have Jupiter (Libra) is conjoint my Saturn (Sag). I do have a strong sense of truth, values and my own code, too, as Momof5 calls it.
I can understand different views and times the rules maybe should bend (perhaps that’s my Libra) and why different cultures and backgrounds may see things a bit differently (Sag, I’ve moved around a lot even overseas). But I was aware of a certain sort of, hmm, do right by others civil code even as a small child somehow. I can turn into a panther when I see people violating the rights of others and lying (Virgo Sun and Mars). I don’t trust authority though, and see the holes and unkindness to people in many rules as well, though; the overstepping of authority and selective use of rules and rights appall me.
You harm someone around me for a lark or to benefit yourself, and my Scorpio will emerge with glaring eyes to dismantle your smug. (Do I take care of myself this way? No! And that is my issue I am working on.)
Now, that said, I have Virgo Sun, Rising, Mars, Merc and Pluto — and I do my best but don’t think perfection is achievable. I’ve seen people go basically round the bend and be miserable in OCD quests for perfection, so maybe that had an affect. My work is scrupulous but I work smart and don’t obsess and do it over 20 times. I think you have to have a balance between quality, time, reality, esp today. Libra in me?
…and yes, I hold onto my principles, though I will be open to information that may change or update those principles. So, come on Saturn in Sag, let’s see what that will be like. I have natal Saturn in Sag; here comes Saturn in Sag, and my Saturn return is coming up a in couple of years as well. Will all this affect me like a bus dropping on my head? Or will I deal with smaller bursts, an effect here, and the, each produced from a particular round of Saturn buffet items? We shall see. Funnily, after a completely sucky year, and without any improvement around me, I feel like my energy is returning (due to being in my Virgo month?) and my HEY, COWBOY, THIS IS MY TRUTH fire is reignited — though I am dealing with a few people who want me to bury my truth, my view, and become more like them, and be less passionate or interested all the way around, more cow-eyed accepting bland. More “just accept it, what can you do?” And I was so tired it almost happened, the move to bland weary acceptance and self-burying in the usual Virgo “good servant” manner. Not. Any. More. Is this due to Saturn fizzing up behind us in the near distance? Hmm!
Thanks for another great post, Elsa.
Yes, I think I am. I have Jupiter conjunction Saturn in Libra in the 7th house. I expect my partners to be scrupulous as well!
i try to be. but i think it’s more my uranus/saturn. if i have these ideals, i better live by them (ie don’t be a hypocrite.) but it’s difficult. ideals being… idealistic.
Have Jupiter/Saturn conjunct in Virgo (with a Virgo Sun). I have no other choice than be scrupulous. Sticking to your principles no matter what is a trait that makes life feel elevated AND defeated on the spiritual plane. People may think that you are a person of integrity and therefore think you are funny/stupid. No one gets big in life for being ethical. I found this to be the opinion of majority.
However, my Aqua rising and the sextile from Uranus to Jupiter says ‘f*ck majority’. 😛
Still, Jupiter-Saturn can make a person rigid. And that’s no good.
Jupiter in Capricorn 2nd house here. I hold on to my values and my savings. Interestingly I have uranus retrograde in sagittarius in the first so am big on formulating my own values and personal philosophy rather than abide by something just because I was told that is proper decorum.
Saturn Scorpio square Jupiter Rx Aquarius, I rather die over and over for a thousand years than to be a slave or be used for someone else’s principles. If I am wrong, then I don’t want to be right 😀
Violence against women has been pervasive since the dawn of time. Do any of you think that any of these scruples aspects have anything to do with all of the violence against women headlines so prevalent at this time. There are stories in the front about violence in universities and in the NFL and others. Institutions would rather bury this stuff but it is in the news reguardless of their wishes.Is this a walk your talk issue or is this a lillith or chiron thing?I am interested to know what you all think.
If you post your question with your chart on the forum here: https://www.elsaelsa.com/forum/
More will see it and someone is sure to weigh in.
Have you seen Les Miserables? Javert is the perfect extreme example of this energy 🙂 He chases a guy down for 20 or so years because he broke parole. I’ve always really identified with Javert, because ai feel like I would do the same thong (albeit I would give up a looooot sooner haha). I have Sag Saturn square Jupiter.
I’m not sure if I’m scrupulous (Mercury in Gemini), I am honorable though. Pisces Saturn square Jupiter in Cancer.
I have Saturn in the 10th opposite my Virgo Moon and it worries me even if I get close to the line of being dishonorable. My beloved Mamaw has been dead 25 years I still can’t stand the thought of doing or saying anything that would cause her to be disappointed in me.
My sister and I are like that: “what would Gran do?” (Gran has been dead since 1998. She was a double Cap with Sun/Uranus 1 deg conj and was awesome.)
Cool Jilly! Mine was an Aquarius with probably an early degree Libra Moon. She was bone thin naturally so I gave her a Pisces Ascendant but, I’m only guessing.
I am SURE your Mamaw is not disappointed in you! You speak of her today with everyone here : therefore she is alive and well.
Thank you for sharing the remembrance of elders.
My GM was nice to me, but nearly obliterated her own children.
Gives a person something to think about. (I am sorry for my mother)
@ Jilly I think you have inherited the good vibes from your GM and she is holding your hand.
I have Saturn in Capricorn @ 29 and Jupiter in Aquarius @ 6 in the 6th house. North Node in Virgo in the first. MY default is to go with the flow (Pisces) but the afore mentioned planets keep me focused on health/fitness/diet. ANd, yes, I have a strong sense of personal principles (not so much others principles as Uranus is in my 1st house).
I would say unfailingly. Though I probably fall once in a blue moon.
Sagittarius moon opposite Saturn. Sun-Saturn. Jupiter in Cap. I have lots of Jupiter-Saturn touches in my chart, and Aqua/Uranus also represented pretty well.
To a tee. But I am no prude. Some think by lecturizing on the belief system they ascribe to makes them scrupled but actions don’t reflect it necessarily.
I mind the societal legalities. Mainly because I’m too old to run from the law. And I would hate to be looking over my shoulder all the time. Am not addicted to the adrenaline rush like some. It’s really the only way to live outside the law as far as I can see.
I am good with my code of ethics. And yes, it is not always easy having to take a stand. But a clear conscience is worth it to me. I am always surprised when I come across people who have no conscience.
I wonder how people with no conscience make decisions.
Hope this is true. I work in a pretty hostile, integrity lacking work environment. I’m sure that’s not unheard of. And I happen to be scrupulous, which happens to also make me the needle in the haystack. #prayinghands
There are some things I am scrupulous about. Example, I never cheat anyone on a consult…not even a minute. I give everything I have for the time I am hired…the idea of doing less, is unthinkable.
I also have to tell people the truth, when it’s easier not to, which is what provoked this post.
People wish me happy birthday sometimes, it’s not my birthday. I would like to just say, “thanks”, but I can’t. I have to write them back and tell them, “Thanks, but it is not my birthday.”
They then think I am lying, because they think they have this worked out, but they don’t. They have it worked out wrong, or someone told them something wrong.
So I feel I have to tell them the truth, awkward for both sides, when is both scrupulous and stupid, because it doesn’t really matter, does it?
Anyway, these are the things that are quite hardcore with me. Truth and fairness, basically. And it should be no surprise with Mars Mercury in the 9th.
I also don’t act like I like you, when I don’t. I don’t mislead people – I won’t mislead people. Same astrology…
Now as for things I would LIKE to be more scrupulous about, I fail tremendously. For example, I can never keep more then a “cleanish” house and that’s on my best day, with company coming over. I would also like to keep certain spiritual practices in force and I fail here too…
This is what I mean about the woman I mentioned. I have seen her do some wicked hard things, because she felt they were right. That kind of character is not that common. And my grandfather was like that too.
My husband is fairly scrupulous. He’s meticulously clean…teeth flossing and stuff. If he cleans the house, it is perfectly spotless. He tries to keep a spiritual regimen as a well, and has success for at least a period of time. He will also spend have a day looking for three cents, unaccounted for in his checking account.
Er…he can plan a mission, that’s for sure. I recall his planning when he moved here, he had three days blocked out in 10 minute increments! 🙂
All in all, I think scruples are positive, unless of course, they slip into OCD.
With Saturn in Sadge, the focus in on the truth…standing for the truth, even if you invite oppression. It’s going to be real interesting.
After your examples, I think I misread what ‘scruples’ means. All the tidy stuff, if that’s scruples, I am unscrupulous. I had it confused with ethics.
Having moral integrity : acting in strict regard for what is considered right or proper. Ethical, honest, honorable, just, moral, principled, conscientious.
Love, Sex, Veneer, …
Damascus like layered forges of our purest essences; having read much and watch along as Saturn has traveled through Libra and down to the last 7 degrees of Scorpio; Sagittarius on Christmas Eve of 2014, moving towards …””intrigue”” .
It’s not just about having character wardrobe, unless that’s the gift we work for to place or find under the Christmas Tree.
Our surface thinking and depth perceptions need not be cast into stone; ..
Looking back over some of the veneer posts and Saturn topics; do you have some recent thoughts on signs or interpretations over the last couple years; that we have been thru some tests and topics of the last 2 to 3 years
One website post
I think that post was prescient..which is expected of an astrologer.
Pretty much everyone has taken a fall, a haircut, been humbled…something.
…that is, of future transits also; of all, have you seen any lean towards trends being more flexible about some topics, and or to being truer to other areas?
I don’t understand the question. But I don’t see everything. In fact, I see very little. I only see what I’m looking at. 🙂
Thanks, I just read your reply and even the next comment; my window was open on the screen/ no change till I refreshed by posting.
Thanks, I liked both reply and comment to posts!
I have natal Jupiter trine Saturn – I’m a vegan for ethical reasons, & I work in a specialty that involves getting the facts straight, documented, and measured…and it all affects reimbursement. For me, there’s plenty of freedom (Jupiter) within the form (Saturn). I believe (Jupiter) in boundaries (Saturn). Interesting post, Elsa 🙂
I don’t recall observing so much of one day with so many things not only in likeness to aspect interpretations but so many unrelated sources showing up with no knowledge of conversations and playing out the roles of what only a couple or a few people could do by mistakes in terms of “how things just go” by general descriptions of psychology and sociology merits. (No example on this one)
Imagine, “triangulation”, where two people get along, then a third joins in and things start to change; a fourth could just walk up to one of those 3 in a separate social setting and instead of a brand new experience they start right where either of the 3 left off..
I’m not Ina relationship and not even looking.
Yet , we all relate and respond, etc.
I got hit hard when Mars hit 0.
The week before I discovered I wasn’t a tool, I was just toyed.
I think triangulation can happen on a subconscious level in outer circles and the influences can play out I front of, or over or even with bystanders(complete strangers) ..scruples??? Yea uh, dispite the chaotic mistakes in caution, or jealousy, or subtle desires, the learned lessons over agreed mistakes , in turn, turn the table on the reasoning for the strategy that was of concern in the beginning; then the damage has been done by impression, possibly driving one towards a different or even bigger problem…
While my own rational over my own view of the last couple months was on not even on the surface till today; confirmation of much unfolded a view of many different things over the last couple days.
Saturn is at 19 degrees and the nodes at 19 degrees are retrograde( going the same direction as the planets) ! Venus at 17 is going to loose the Sun to Libra in 4 days.
Sure, if there were any relativity to where Saturn(or any planet or point) was in our natal chart to where Saturn is in the sky, it ccould stand that any place at any degree would have some like or different effect or affect.Then also any planet could have an affect on another.
My Sun is at 16 degrees Libra, so that could even be close( to but into the Venus triangulation)
Saturn is close 4 degrees from my natal Venus( close enough)
I have a natal Jupiter within a couple of degrees from my natal Moon and Natal Chiron a couple of degrees above the DC in my 7th House.
My 4 degree Jupiter has Mars square at 4 Sagittarius.
While the Moon may be Oposite my Natal Moon today, it’s a couple of degrees past my N node at 5, that share a few degrees away from my Mars in the 12th.
Metabolizing the DC stuff by the order of Moon, then Jupiter, then Chiron; that’s a difficult task or gift, from or to.
I convinced, for today, that outside influences can interfere.
While I should have written this in reverse order, from the bottom up, to make better sense, I did not want to present a atmosphere that I wanted someone to do my own equating for me.
The nodes in retrograde just past opposition to Uranus.
The lunar paths will be retraced and the ones we are I retrograde with now are in places we were just at a while back.
This should be easy.
Are we just realizing it?
If we have been here before then we should know better.
Are things getting taken advantage of lacking scruples?
I had to look up OCD, and just yesterday I listened to a video describing in one part how as a spiritual religious faith “C” ( also like I am a C student) that we are supposed to have an obsessive desire to …
What a day today turned out to be, having awakened yesterday in one sense, and having a convinced sense of purpose that I needed to fill in the blanks to the entire Wholeness of the wheel with OCD ..
…I do not have confidence that the paths being related ( subtle quiete unrelated outside topics) working with some changes , are without error ( and that includes weekend escapes substitutes as possible wolves in sheep clothing)
Hiding under the shells are
1 , the Over exaggerated gets labeled on the scrupulous..
2 the …simplified …gets a vacation bonus…
3 the truth under this shell is combined with love…
…it could be hot! or cold! or boarding! or sound to good to be true; but, it may be real… It could be short and simple; it could take a lot of work; it may not even be thought not possible.
Whether we are looking or not, …
This is probably not the right place to say so much( specially of nothing)
As Saturn moves towards opposing my natal Jupiter it might get sticky, especially about money. I was interested in the thought that Jupiter rules publishing also, as that is what I am setting up, involved in supporting pet rescues and rehoming. So there is moral purpose and compassion here too. The more you find out, (the real education you talked about Elsa) the more you want to do something to help, while still being able to make a living and be free to earn money outside the structure of an oppressive, prison-like office environment. I just hope it succeeds and I dont go bankrupt! I have just come to the end of Pluto moving right through 2nd House and opposing Jupiter in the 8th, it was pretty bad at certain points this last 10 years.
Forgot to say I have just saved that great quote to share on Facebook, as it seems anyone with a ‘stage name’ may soon have to remove their profile or reveal their real name. Maybe this is part of the last sting of Saturn in Scorpio. A shame but maybe its time to move on.
Yed, definitely jupiter/saturn vibe. With age I’m relaxing my standards/principles a wee bit so I am happier in general and more forgiving of myself and others (humans are complex.)
I like having this way of being
(Writing from my phone so keyboard is small, and I hit ‘send’ to soon)
I like this way of being but with my square aspect I go from optimism to super cautiousness (pessimism even) so have to monitor this dynamic so it doesn’t stop me from reaching out to my dreams.
With the square for years I’ve felt I will get caught if I break some principle/rule and all will crumble. Not quite. True that with the square I wouldn’t push my luck in huge things as I will get caught!! (my sentiment)
Anyway, I’m talking minor things, nothing that would damage my integrity profoundly.
Interesting post and replies x
Oh the typos!
Saturn moon, Jupiter sun, Saturn sq Jupiter. It has taken me a long time and a lot of hard work to learn to work with this energy. My moon and sun have always been at odds with each other. I like the new car commercial where the narrator says, “Learn to obey the rules, without being bound by them” I was born with Saturn sq Jupiter, on my first Saturn return I had Saturn oppose Jupiter, now I am in my second Saturn return and in my second Saturn return chart, the square has returned. Yes, I think I have learned to understand and work with this.
This post was an interesting in comparison to the homecoming thread.
I am a very scrupulous person. I attempt to hold myself to a high moral code. For instance, when I got this shit job I was asked to make a six month commitment; I did so and even though the pay is crap, the facilities are awful and I hated it I stayed the six months and didn’t even LOOK for another job during that time. Which is why it’s pissing me off that the employer who expected ME to keep my word now won’t keep theirs. Next time they need help they can piss up a rope-I won’t be there for them again.
I haven’t read all the comments – sorry for shortcut.
The thing I retained is “A person wants to rigidly adhere to their principles, whatever those principles are”.
I must be off-track, but I think the combo of Saturn/Jupiter is more like Jupiter will correct the rigid ways of Saturn, a balance of those energies.
Then again, I’ve got Mars In Libra.
The doughnut is not a deep-fried pastry with a hole in the middle. It is a hole with a deep-fried pastry all around.
Saturn-types with Libra will understand, I hope.
Nope, a doughnut is both a deep-fried pastry with a hole in the middle and a hole with a deep-fried pastry all around – depending on your current mood.
(From a Jupiter conjunct Saturn in Virgo and a Virgo Saturn conjunct Libra Moon/Mercury.)
I completly forgot.
My answer to the quesion is :
I’m not very scrupulous. I used to think I was, until life got in the way & it turns out I have my little (or big) arrangements.
Aka : getting humble.
Think I understand you. Needed lots and lots of years and disappointment until I realized I can make mistakes and the Earth will follow it’s orbit anyway. 😀
Still, following my principles is a must.