Saturn And Karma: Is Comeuppance Guaranteed?

wicked witchDoes what go around come around?  Is comeuppance guaranteed? Do some people get a pass in life?

I was prompted to think about this a number of years ago when I attended a local NCGR meeting. The gal presenting made a compelling argument that some (evil) people did get away with things.  She chocked the “evil” in the chart to three asteroids, Lucifer was one and I forget the others.

In her opinion, these individuals would suffer no comeuppance. She believed that there were horrific people among us not subject to common laws of nature.

I want to believe that what goes around comes around but I have most definitely seen people skate in my life.  Skate, but what do they skate into in the future?  You don’t necessarily know.

I do believe at this point that everything comes back to you, for good or ill. There’s nothing free. If you actually get something free, you probably earned it!  I’m bringing this issue (back) up because someone made a remark yesterday, about people getting their karma when Saturn conjuncts Pluto. I have thoughts about that but will address is separately. Here’s the question:

Is comeuppance guaranteed?

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Saturn And Karma: Is Comeuppance Guaranteed? — 63 Comments

  1. I do not think comeuppance is guaranteed… athough I may change my mind about that in the next 20 years….

    I love all your posts today, Elsa. It’s like a 10 course meal on the blog today – something special about today.

  2. ‘And your little dog too!’

    I do believe that what goes around, comes around. I’ve lived long enough to see that what we send out into the Universe comes back to us, sometimes with a precision that’ll take your breath away.

    On that note, here’s a huge bouquet of crimson roses for everyone here at Elsa’s – much love!

  3. whether it comes around or not, the universe does it for a reason, whatever it may be. There is always a bigger picture to every story and the world is our stage and we are the actors, we can put on any face to act out. There is no bad or good, saint or sinner, it is what it is.

  4. I think comeuppance happens in the natural balance of life, water (and whatever) seeking its own level, equilibrium and non-randomness and all of that. But what a person receives as comeuppance is not necessarily visible to everyone else’s naked eye. Comeuppance can mean someone is haunted – psychically, emotionally, mentally – to the end of her or his days – though no one else may never ever see it, know of it, sense it. I do know of at least one case where this is true; the person in question doesn’t reveal it per se but I hear miniscule, nearly undetectable indicators of it creep out every now and then. It’s there. It will be there forever.

    We possess the conscience for a very specific reason though I’m not sure whether that reason will ever be fully established. It’s easy to think, hey, not everyone has one, but it’s true. Everyone does.

  5. LOL, yeah seriously, it’s like Christmas on this blog today. Yes, I would like to believe that comeuppance is guaranteed. If at the very least, it will happen in a future life if not this one. I just don’t think the laws of the universe operate in such a way that one reaction would not cause an equal and opposite reaction.

  6. All things will be balanced in the end.

    That being said, I don’t think everyone gets their just desserts for their actions in the same lifetime they committed them. This goes for both good and evil.

    If karma did work within a single lifetime, I think the current world would not be so unbalanced. People would know, consciously or unconsciously, that what they did would come back to them, and most would be able to choose more wisely.

  7. @curious wanderer “All things will be balanced in the end.” I think this is very astute. It really speaks to the theme of Saturn in Libra. As above, so below. What goes up, must come down.

  8. I definitely believe it is guaranteed.. BUT.. it may be in a future life that it occurs. A lot of it is tied up in the “lessons” we have for this lifetime and future lives. You may not have it coming back to you in this lifetime but it may come back in a future life directly toward you or someone you love.

  9. I think it is guaranteed that you get what you give in one way or another even though it may not be apparent to those around you. I think karma is more about how you feel and not actually what happens to you. Like the people that seem like they have everything and no regard for anyone else – I bet they don’t sleep good at night and never feel satisfied or something.

  10. Those Karma Gods are slow to act at times, I’ve noticed. But when I have witnessed instant karma, it’s been such a delicious experience. I think we create our lives and bring in our lessons and rewards… No one else can possibly be responsible for us except ourselves…

  11. I think some people get away with sooo much shit…its unbelivable.I dont think everything balances. Its impossible( atleast in my mind).
    I wanna know those asteroids!! Check if I am evil:)

  12. My position is that you pay for harm you have caused at some point in eternity.

    I’ve seen psychos that there is really not anything you could come up with that they would process the punishment in the same way that the harm was inflicted.

  13. i think it only makes sense that not all karma acts instantly in one life time. If we saw the consequences of our actions instantly in a life, and if this was common certain knowledge, everyone will try to act good not because they are well-intended, nice people inside, but because they look out for their self interests. I think the only way to really test a person is to give them the choice to act in an unselfish, non-egoistic way without making them know the rewards will be soon. This way you really test a person’s soul development and choice of good in an non-egoistic manner.

    So I believe things come in different life times for this reason. But you can still sometimes see instant karma or small manifestations so that you dont loose hope instantly.

    I see this in my life all the time. There are some things i have longed for all my life to have and tried to deserve it but i guess timing is not right or i am not ready so i dont see these wishes coming true quickly. but then i see small things, small wishes being manifested quickly as if like small rewards when i am in a giving compassionate mood.
    For instance, last week i was watching a tv show with some elders, and i wondered how nice it would be to spend sometime and help some elderly (my own grandma was a very difficult person so i never tasted the compassion of an elder person). so in a couple of days, i came across an opportunity to teach internet to a lovely old lady. The experience really made both of us happy, we got along so well. and the same day i went to a shop where i found everything i was wishing to find and felt happy about it. I was also thinking of buying a fish tank but decided not to, thinking i cant look after it, then i ended up buying a 3d poster of an aquarium 🙂 and only realized much later that this is a funny manifestation of what i wanted.

    I also witnessed bigger karma works. I had a very arrogant student in my class once, who gave me unfairly bad teacher evaluation. A few months later, he needed a reference letter for job applications and there was not lecturer around but me. But i took the highway and still gave him a good letter.
    Another story, when i was in undergrad, i had a roommate, who was renting a room in the house my parents owned. she was all nice to me from outside, and she was noisy, messy and brought many guests, and i never said any negative thing to her. Then i heard her telling someone bad things about the house and that she doesnt like staying there. A few years later i met her, and she was telling me how unlucky she had been when she moved out, couldnt find a nice house to share with a nice roommate, and her stay with me was the best time she had during undergrad. So some people appreciate you much later, after hurting you unfairly.
    anyways, to sum up, i think things come back, but generally when you are not expecting it, and maybe not in a single life.

  14. Yes I believe is guaranteed. Everything comes around at the end (sometimes with different form / disguised).

    Good deeds towards others- attract- good deeds coming to you.
    (i.e I went at a store and the guy gave me 5 pounds more than he should have. I went back in without a thought and gave them back to him.
    Few months later, I was walking and the travel card(expensive) fell off my pocket.A woman came running after me to give it back to me.

    I feel the same way about bad deeds. If someone steals, it doesnt mean that other people will steal that guy’s house. It could come with a different form, i.e lose somehing he holds dear or emotional guilt.. or a second chance which he will chose not to do it again.

  15. the soul (of the self, of the universe?) is not fooled.
    forever is a long time.

    so, well, our actions create us, and create our karma, so to speak, by making us what we are, and how the universe reflects itself back at us. so, i’m thinking, yeah, karma will get ya’. eventually.

  16. I don’t think evil they are. Maybe spoiled, because they have been allowed to get away with it. Maybe it’s their journey and they choose to teach the negative way. That’s a problem for another lifetime. It’s called abuse of power. And it’s a nasty one to have to be submitted to in any lifetime.

    I felt it around my chiron return. Non astro enthusiasts tend to say “everything changes at 50”. If I worked hard, did my job, I would be okay. It always worked that way. I was entitled to do my best and not be persecuted. But then it became boss’s doing everything in their power to prevent me from doing my job because their political vollying was more important than company success. I was no longer entitled to promote company success in the world of finance. So I am changing fields and the way I work.

  17. I think most get their comeuppance; it’s just not always obvious to others. That said, I also think some people are oblivious to their comeuppance when it occurs. They turn it around and play the victim, or their egos are so overblown they reinvent the truth to make it seem to themselves/others that they’re still “winning.”

  18. I agree with CafeMercury on the point that it may not be obvious to others whilst one’s receiving comeuppance. People tend to judge how others are going superficially eg. Is their social media shiny? What type of car their driving, how much they earn etc. If all this “looks” good, people assume all is well. This is not always so. The exterior is just tinsel sometimes hiding what is going on underneath. People often hide their inner woes and struggles so we never may know if comeuppance is being experienced.

  19. I agree with Cafe Mercury Hades Moon. Sometimes people have a really specific idea about how someone who has wronged them should experience karma. But one person’s lesson could be meaningless to another, and most onlookers usually aren’t in a position to evaluate another’s internal landscape. As Hades Moon said, material rewards are superficial compared to what someone might be experiencing internally. And I think others have also said as well, but someone (let alone onlookers) might be totally unaware they are, in fact, eating their just desserts.

  20. I don’t believe that everything you do comes back to you in exactly the same way. Everything that goes around comes around, sure, but I believe that sooner or later wrongs are atoned for if someone decides to forgive or let go. And I think sometimes when you do something to someone, it evens out the scales of justice and it neutralizes karma…well depending on how the justice was taken by whoever it was handed to.

    I think karma is beyond out limited comprehension.

  21. I agree with Cafe Mercury and Hades Moon. Sometimes people have a really specific idea about how someone who has wronged them should experience karma. But one person’s lesson could be meaningless to another, and most onlookers usually aren’t in a position to evaluate another’s internal landscape. As Hades Moon said, material rewards are superficial compared to what someone might be experiencing internally. And I think it was also said, but someone (let alone others) might be totally unaware they are, in fact, experiencing karma. We all are in the process of making and experiencing “karma” I think, but not in a moral way. Just due the action/response essence of nature.

  22. I totally agree that it’s not exactly the same way, that just feels too simplistic. For one’s emotional well being I feel forgiveness and letting go is the ideal route. When I hear or read of acts of unfairness/injustice, after empathising with the victims I always think “ May the universe take care of it”.
    One thing that rings true for me is the possibility that when we pass over we experience our moment of truth as we get to feel all the joy and sorrow we have bestowed. This has a feeling of comeuppance to me. Some people may only be enlightened during this process. I also tend to believe that close to death one may reflect and see the woe of their ways as I’ve read about death bed apologies.

      • Right, I agree with you and in some way I think even wishing karma upon someone, keeps the karma ball rolling so to speak. It’s all about intention and the thoughts you put out. I do think our thoughts affect each other. We’re all connected. So as long as I wish karma upon someone else, I am wishing it upon myself.

  23. Karma is tricky because sometimes people hurt people and they literally do not know what they are doing. You know they saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions…

    I think forgiveness is so important because most of the time people literally don’t know what they are doing. As soon as someone puts the intention into the universe to let go of some wrong inflicted upon them, karma is instantly squashed…not just for the individual, but for the entire universe.

    • I agree with you that wishing karma upon someone incurs it’s own karma. The same for forgiveness (and everything else). But for me, I think of karma as cause and effect, 1:1, not as a punishment. That’s why I think forgiveness is more for the person doing the forgiving, etc. Our karma is always for us alone, not for others we may have wronged. Karma exists as an opportunity to bring wholeness and wisdom, not to perpetuate suffering. In some sense, I think maybe what we experience as karma is just the materialization of what we’ve created for our reality, the paths we’ve chosen, and all that. Again, that cause and effect thing.

      I’ve never liked that saying! So harsh. I agree that so many don’t know the extent of what they’re doing, good or bad. Maybe that’s part of the learning process? I do think the universe knows what we do not and sorts it out.

      • I see what you mean, but I think when another person inflicts some action/karma, good or bad, but in the context of this post, say it’s some action that is not based in love, but hate or fear, with the intention to do harm, then depending on how we respond to that action, it can turn into our own karma or it can be dissolved with forgiveness.

        So…Is comeuppance guaranteed? Not necessarily I don’t think….not if someone along the line decides not to perpetuate the karma.

  24. Karma seems to come into play almost always, but much of it is on a very practical level, nothing mystical. For instance, our number one duty is to take care of ourselves which involves those basic things: eating well, exercising, staying away from drugs, getting enough rest and expanding ourselves intellectually. Do that and the rewards are basically 100% guaranteed.
    The second thing is also pretty simple, live within your means. So, if you deal with your responsibilities and don’t over-extend your finances, that reward is also pretty much guaranteed.
    And then regarding relationships, forming them with people who are caring and giving, not people who’re selfish and abusive. Guaranteed win. You can call it Karma if you like.
    As far as other people’s Karma is concerned, I’m 65 years old and have seen a lot in my life and I believe that almost all bad or selfish people end up paying very big for their misdeeds. I have seen this work almost always. As to those people who seem to skate, I think it may just appear they’re getting away with evil doings. Their unhappiness just isn’t apparent. Most of these people become bitter and angry and their final years are miserable.

  25. Karma is one of those words that make my skin crawl,because I don’t think there is a score keeper.I think it isn’t about evening the score. I think it is when you(universal you) come out of the batter’s box swinging and you get to the plate and you knock it out of the park and you dance around those bases shaking your ass good and you Know that’s you ,slaying the moment;boo-Ya!

  26. I don’t think we really understand how karma works – we use a convenient short hand version of the word and meaning to explain something that’s mostly beyond human rational. We also base our ‘invidivdual’ versions of karma on social, religious and cultural definitions of good and evil, that are all too often very polarized, not allowing for much grey. Who decides what is good or evil and the graduations in-between them? However, I do suspect that most of us have an inborn sense of what is right or wrong, that is frequently challenged by society. i.e. soldiers – most people have to be trained to kill, etc.

    Also take a look at the book :”Evil: The Science Behind Humanity’s Dark Side,” by Dr. Julia Shaw for a refresher course 🙂 and/or “Shadow and Evil in Fairy Tales,” by Marie=Louis von Franz, “The rise of Christianity added a kind of spirit to the principle of evil which it did not have before. The sharpening or differentiation of ethical reactions into too clear-cut black and white lines is not favourable to life.”

  27. I think there is a clear definition of right and wrong. It has to do with being honest. We know when we’re lying or when we’re tainting the truth. We know when we’re supporting people or groups or institutions that are lying.
    Human kind survived for nearly half a millions years by knowing right from wrong, truth from fiction. Lately however, with so much b.s. and brainwashing coming from media, tv and movies, we get led into delusional thinking, even though we sense it’s not true. We do know right from wrong and we try to pretend we don’t or it’s hazy. It’s not.

  28. So many good points above 🙂 .

    La sirena : Yes, it seems logical that intentions need to be considered. I agree that alot of hurt is based on innocent misunderstandings.

    Buendia: The cause and effect theory appears to my inner scientist. “Karma exists as an opportunity to bring wholeness and wisdom, not to perpetuate suffering”; I like the sound of this, very humane.

  29. Not only is comeuppance not guaranteed, it rarely happens. I still cling to the idea of what goes around, comes around but it’s more or less just a desire for fairness. Time and again, I’ve seen wicked people prosper because they have no scruples to limit them while gentle people are crushed. It’s the law of the jungle. Fair play is the stuff of movies.

  30. It helps me sleep at night, but comeuppance is no guarantee! If it helps keep me sane then it benefits me.

    Objectively, you see tons of people get away with being nasty everyday if look hard enough.

  31. Definitely. I have seen it happen over and over. My personal experience is as soon as you completely let go of … something… say you were done wrong. Walk away and cut the cord completely. Completely and emotionally total walk away then watch what happens. BAM. Karma to whoever screwed you. I love it. As for Saturn, it’s tough but can also be like Santa Claus. If you have been good he will reward you very handsomely but if not he won’t even give you a lump of coal. I have a 24 degree Capricorn Saturn 12th and Jupiter 2 Aqu with my Ascendent of 5 Aquarius. I feel like I am in a holding pattern afraid to make a move. Literally. I remember the last tine Saturn crossed this area but with Pluto now it’s all different. Love reading the blog Elsa ???

  32. On the flip slide, do people deserve everything they get? Plenty of people know only suffering, before their life is over. I know this is a pretty common argument against ‘karma’, but I haven’t found a way to resolve this.

    • There is no doubt there are legions of people who are born into suffering or perhaps fall into it at some point in their life. It’s undeserved. But there are some things we don’t know.

      One of them is the state of the suffering person’s soul. I am not trying to glorify suffering here. I am just stating a fact I know of firsthand.

      Specifically, I can vividly recall being a homeless teenager, 15 years old. This was back before services of any kind, existed. And I was sitting on a bus bench, watching cars go by… stopping at the light. My mind was wandering. I could feel the sun warming my arm. I love that feeling.

      I looked up and noticed the people in the cars; every single one of them looked stressed. ALL of them. I was so curious about this. What could it be that was making them so unhappy? I had no sight of my own situation.

      How a person feels is individual. If you feel at peace – well this is priceless. And you can be at peace in a very bad situation… I mean, it’s possible.

      Second point is, the resolve it, you may have to believe in an afterlife. Because it does seem that many people get away will all kinds of stuff and then die. But we really don’t know that either because torment is not necessarily visible. But let’s say they do skate out. What happens after they die?

      What if there is a hell? We don’t talk about it but let’s say there is a hell – you’d not want to go there, every though people try to teach you if will be fun. Riiggght.

      There’s a school of thought, the more suffering you do on this plane, the better you’ll have it in the afterlife. I know some or even many may think that’s nuts but I’m not so sure.

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