Quit Fixing People: A Virgo Rant!

This is for the gal who showed up on my blog last night, wanting to fix me and control my communications.

Quit Fixing People How To Have No Friends At All…

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Quit Fixing People: A Virgo Rant! — 57 Comments

  1. What if I’m telling a tenant of the house that he needs to pay rent and he needs to actually clean in accordance with the cleaning schedule.

    I’ll admit I kind of went off on him. I got tired of the childish tantrums and personal attacks I get every time I ask him for rent or ask him to wash his dishes in the sink. He’s a scorpio with an aquarius moon and a cancer asc. He’s also the youngest in the house – 22.

    I’m the one who is the house manager. I collect rents and use it to buy house supplies and pay utilities and get the repair guy out etc. etc.

    I did use the “you need” language and “now” … is that an inappropriate situation to use such language? I will admit that I’m pretty angry at this guy as he’s pretty much a freeloader and has used up a great deal of goodwill with me.

    It probably wouldn’t be so difficult for me to stomach if he weren’t – at the same time – so much complaining about other tenants and demanding of me to do this or that right now with regards to things getting changed at the house (it’s old and needs lots of work)

    argh. sorry. pluto mars is still in effect for me!

  2. Hi Mud, I don’t think Elsa was talking about when you have to hold people accountable for their responsibilities to you. I think it was more about when people are trying to butt into things that are none of their business anyway. I hate that. Have you ever met someone who wanted to tell you how to arrange your pantry or when you needed to clean this (when they don’t live with you) or what type of tea you need to buy?

  3. while I understand what Mud is saying I do believe Elsa is still correct (and I am guilty of using “you need” statements). I think when Mud says “you need” what I see is that Mud needs this guy to do these things, rightfully so. through the tenants actions, or lack thereof, the tenant is saying, “no, screw you, I need to be a total douche with no regard for anyone else.”

    “you need” is power-tripping language that can trigger knee-jerk reactions in others. the best way to avoid that trap is through “I” statements. I seriously have to watch my language or I can “you need” myself into passive-aggression and a power-grabbing standoff.

  4. I know what you mean, Elsa. I’ve also noticed an general attitude, toward the country, toward individuals – everything – that somewhere out there, there exists one specific, right way to do things (or even just to be), and if you can just find it & do it, you’ll be “right,” and everything will fall into place for you! It’s applied to the U.S, to parenting, to relationships, etc. Increasingly, there is only one correct way to be physically, behaviorally, spiritually… when there are lots of “right” ways to be, and who are “they’ to insist otherwise?
    (The Pluto/Mars opposition today is in an exact T-Square with my natal Mercury, can you tell? 😉

  5. Well, this is rather a Mars-Pluto issue, because Saturn is about limits and this kind of people don’t know them. And the stronger Pluto in terms of exerting power telling others what they need to do, the more our Mars becomes enraged. It may be a good idea to send them to the 12th house too, total immersion, washed away – So, I need to…what did you say?

  6. i’m really sensitive to those kinds of things.
    doesn’t mean i still don’t say them, myself, sometimes. i try not to….
    it’s a neverending process, to keep an eye on the way we shape the ideas coming out of our mouths (or keyboards)… well worth it, considering how much power words have, but… i guess i can see how this saturn in virgo would focus on a refinement on that.

    i just get hung on on saying things “right” and then not saying anything sometimes. you need (!) to allow yourself a little imperfection from time to time. or, i sure as heck do. otherwise nothing gets done. but a little more attention would be nice.

  7. In fact, i severed a relationship here the day Pluto went direct for just having had it with this person doing that to me. I have seriously done my best to edit it out the “you” in conversations, especially heated ones that can devolve into finger pointing. nasty business, as in the rhetorical “Who elected YOU god?!” 🙂

  8. Oh, I totally agree with Elsa. I know that it sets me off when I hear that in public.

    What I’m struggling with is somehow not having other words to express the “grow up and be accountable” issue we’re having with this guy.

    Pile on the fact that I’ve been the one doing the cleaning that has fallen by the wayside. I am feeling used and abused on top of being the person “in power” to take care of this stuff.

    Frustrated. Wishing for better words to persuade someone to be accountable. He’s kind of 6 months pass due on a lot of this stuff. so….

    Frustrated.

  9. Martha Stewart said “It’s a good thing.”

    “It’s all good” is something I believe started as African-American vernacular and then became generalized.

  10. Stephanie – thanks. I had no idea. I have never watched Martha Stewart in my life. I don’t watch TV at all as a matter of fact. But in whining about this last year sometime, someone told me she was to blame. Thanks for the clarification.

  11. I thought I should update because I complainted so loudly here. They guy that didn’t want to clean or pay rent. He moved out this morning.

    I almost feel guilty for holding him accountable. But… His family came to help him and he and his father spoke with the owner of the house – my SO. My SO is home only about 1/2 of the month at most, which is why I manage the house. I, of course, give him regular updates and he was aware that there has been a problem for sometime now.

    In any sense, he spoke with my SO who asked some valid questions. They guy kept answering no, while his father stood to the side shaking his head in disbelief.

    So there you have it. He’s gone. We’re screening for someone who will pay rent and clean on the cleaning schedule. Here’s to hoping.

    I think this is the first time I’ve used my anger in a self-righteous, self-protecting manner. I usually stuff my anger when it’s something having to do with me. I am only ever good at protecting other people. So this is an uncomfortable feeling. But, in trade for getting to use my energy to protect myself I promise to not tell anyone “You need” for the next two years, but instead to ask them “what do you want?” and “does that make you happy”

    Those are the words I want to come out of my mouth!!

    😀

  12. I think people tend to think that they are supposed to help others. Sometimes we see someone who is down and immediately we think about what they need to do to get out of the situation. Unfortunately what people don’t get is that support is the only thing people need. They may ask your advice, but they really will be hurting if you give it to them in a matter-of-fact sort of way. I have lots of friends that I turn to for advice and lots that I would rather not deal with for advice because they don’t know what the hell they are talking about and think they know what is best for me. It is a paradox. I need advice sometimes, but if the wrong person gives it, I would be better off without it.

  13. I KNOW!
    This is just what I’m going through right now. Everyone wants to live my life for me, or tell me how to do it “their way”. It’s so unbearable!

  14. yes, that is annoying language. suggestions are one thing, but “you need” is imposing.
    Mud – I agree with Satori’s comment. Try something like ‘I need you to do…” pay rent, clean, etc. a contract is a contract. if he won’t honor it then you can draw some of your own boundaries i guess…and stop doing your part!

  15. Ana, I don’t think you really mean “stop doing your part”. Knowing your boundaries is important, but projecting onto others for not recognizing what you contribute will only lead to disappointment and resentment, which is when someone is most likely to give up. Otherwise, I agree with you.
    I think Blair makes a good point, what we often do not get from others is support and that is perhaps all we need.

  16. I am so glad people do not say this to me. And I do not say this to other people. If someone asks for advice, I like to say ‘Have you tried…’ I’m very sensitive to this sort of thing, I guess because I am my own policewoman.

  17. thanks Ana… and MudLS, I hope I didn’t give the impression that I was expecting you to disempower yourself. I totally support you in telling everyone, loud and clear, “I NEED!” I’m really glad you’re on your way to getting a housemate you can live with!

  18. Thanks to everyone. It’s been a lesson in boundaries, me being used because I give and give (in my nature) and that I need to give soft warnings MUCH sooner than being at the end point.

    We will get someone in here that loves the cheapest rent in the neighborhood (we’re in a university neighborhood) who is good to live with. I can feel the pressure is off already!! Thanks to everyone’s insights.

    🙂

  19. My mom, an Aquarius, says something akin to “to each his own” and has a friend that tries to force on her what she needs to do.
    On that note, I kind of disagree with this rant because with a packed 6th house in Cancer, I’m trying to help people do what they need to do. If I feel like there’s nothing I can do for them, I give them advice. I believe that if there’s some small way I can help people do what they need to do without having them schlep it out, I’ll do it. P.S. With Saturn in Virgo, people are turning my attention to the “brain to mouth filter” as a kid I know with tourette’s coined it. A friend of mine with whom I was having a conversation about his new healthy regimen told me that he has a back mind that comes up with fresh ideas and a front mind that censors and edits them. He thinks that when he repeats the ideas of his front mind, they lose their original integrity and become stale. Maybe he’s trying to edit over the editing to go back to the original product?

  20. Dina, I think the difference is between helping someone do something *they* have decided to do, and telling someone *what* they should do and then *how* to do it.

    The first case is what I would call helping (and I think that’s what you were talking about). The second is, well, I think that was what Elsa was talking about.

    Sometimes, really Virgoan people are really just trying to help. They don’t realize how it comes across, I don’t think. They see a problem and they really think they are doing a service. Because it is not something that would offend them, this efficient solving and fixing, so they don’t think it will offend you, either.

    Then again, sometimes people are just being assholes.

  21. This was an eye-opener for me. I have been watching what people say (ans what I say) since you first posted this blog, and it’s pretty awful. Especially now I’m sick people ALL know what I should do and should not do. Not that they’re willing to just cut some slack.

  22. Anna – People with their sun in the 10th house are definitely capable of running their own lives ( generally by the time they are 8)! 🙂

  23. Hi Elsa,
    I just recently left a three year relationship that felt very “Saturn”. He was constantly telling me what I needed to do….drove me bonkers!! I totally understand what you’re saying. It drives me nuts too!!

  24. This is my husband. OMG. He’s a Capricorn, and since he thinks he’s so good at managing things, he thinks he knows what’s best for…me. It drives me up the wall.

    I tune him out and go on with my own plans. Drives HIM up the wall. 😉

    My Aries ASC and Libra Jupiter square his Sun very closely. IMHO, Aries (of course) and Capricorn, unlike Cancer and Libra, aren’t subtle about how pushy they are. It’s always fun at my house, as you can guess. 😉

  25. LOL I love this! “What do you mean what I need to do? What do YOU need to do?” I can’t even count how many times I have had hysterical conversations about ‘shoulds.’ You should do this and should do that. And of course, these shoulds amount to what people have chosen in their own lives and want others to choose as well, just to validate their own decisions!

    I never understood why some people believe themselves to be such strong authorities over other people’s personal decisions. Chill out!

  26. Sounds more like patronising “I know best” Pluto in Sag more than anything else. Maybe Saturn in Virgo is the backlash.. 🙂

  27. Please do! I keep it around to remind me about my attitudes. That and a little bit of sparkly dust for when I just need to be silly.

  28. Faith Popcorn, the futurist/trend forecaster mentioned a few years ago that it’s a trend for us to have more people becoming quasi-experts on everything even though they may not have direct experience, because of how much info is available to us online (ie. google).

    I have a particular asteroid in virgo as well as mercury in libra which I attribute to really wanting to get feedback from people. As independent as I can be for the most part, having people give me advice is really nourishing to me; I like a variety of input, but I don’t like to be told what to do per se. I love when people ask questions or present options too. Some people are not like this, but I am.

  29. Wow, I’ve had a super dose of people telling me what I should do lately. Two of our friends sat me down when I told them we were moving, and interrogated me – and I do mean interrogated, to the point where I had to hold up my hand and ask them to stop.

    Not only were they interrogating me, they were undermining me at the same time, by insinuating that I don’t know what I’m doing because it’s different than what they would do. But all in the sick guise of “helping.”

    Um, I have a lot of cardinal planets and an aries moon. Suffice it to say I’m not looking for a mommy or a daddy. That was the end of those “friendships.”

  30. I’ve seen this video before. I laughed my ass off both times.

    “It’s all good…” I remember when my younger brother started saying that and I was like “What the frig are you talking about?”

  31. My mom is always doing “the right thing” and wants me to do “the right thing” (whatever that is). I guess I have disappointed her many times.

  32. LMAO!!…”Cause you’re gonna fix them? Fix YOU!” Saturn, the self-responsibility savior. Hopefully Pluto rolling through sagittarius has obliterated a lot of this totally pointless attempting to control or say what someone else needs. And some sadges,(ahem, ME!) need all the help we can get with our communications! And slate cleaned by Pluto is a great starting place. Grin.

    @dina2….Oh, oh, oh!!And the ‘It’s all good.”….”What the frig are you taling about?!” Peals of laughter. That is AWESOME.

  33. Considering all the warnings, I’ve learned that if you phrase a request as though they’re doing YOU the favor of whatever it is you’re suggesting, it works 1000x better! For me right now, Saturn in Virgo feels like the right time to really get what I NEED out of my relationships by just asking nicely… I’m not out to fix anyone but rather my relationships and if I didn’t read all the warning signs I would of definitely had no friends this time around!

  34. my mom is a virgo, and you are so correct elsa. virgos have this mindset that they are perfect and they want everybody around them to be like them. its annoying. 3 days back, i had a bout with a virgo. and i sort of a slap her shits on her face. now, she cant accept that she was wrong. saturn now is in them, and so its about time for them to doubt themselves once inawhile

  35. “It’s all good”??? Not according to Saturn in Virgo! Not only is it not all good, it’s not good enough or it’s good only if you are doing what they want you to do. Try to talk a Saturn in Virgo out of them telling you what to do! Good Luck!..lol

  36. I was reading all of the posts here – thinking I couldn’t add anything of relevance, BUT…

    My husband has Virgo sun, and looking back when Saturn moved into Virgo, I realized there was a “shift” in our relationship…By that I mean, I was SICK AND TIRED of how he kept trying to change my behavior and the outcome of everything ….(*wishing I could cuss like a sailor now*)

    I just let loose on him about all of the control issues, about how he had to have his way in an argument (even if he was wrong), correcting me about things I said in front of people (talk about demeaning!), and just all sorts of crap I had been storing up for 17 yrs….all having to do with communication.

    Well, it’s back – Saturn in Virgo. I was ready to walk out on him – but stayed for my 3 kids sake – but now those same feelings are starting to creep back in..

    Control issues are a waste of time – for all parties involved. I say “it’s your Life, do what you want to do..”.

  37. Dawn, em, I have Saturn in Virgo, and I don’t just give orders around. Ever. Maybe it’s the Libra in me, but I hardly ever ask for assistance in any capacity. I’ve learned to do, solve, create, handle things on my own for the most part.

    If by chance I do need help, I never say “hey, I need…” I say “hey, can you please help me with…”… I don’t know, my Statistics assignment? I hate rudeness and understand that others need time for their own things, so I respect ’em.

    The only time I may lose respect for someone is if that person has no respect for me, period.

  38. Elsa,

    Your videos are excellent. I first found your site because google linked my search to videos of yours that addressed my search. One video is the equivalent of an entire chapter in a book.

    Outstanding material.

  39. While Stephanie already provided the origin for “It’s All Good,” I can help with its epidemiology. The phrase was popularized far and wide by MC Hammer/Hammer, care of constant rotation on MTV. The year was 1994. Kurt Cobain died, and you’d turn on MTV for the news and there was Hammer telling you “It’s All Good.”

  40. Elsa I really liked this quick 1 minute video. It’s so true. There are a couple of friends – should I call them ex-friends – who would keep doing this. Another way people try to fix things is by saying “you should do such and such.” I find it very patronizing, and it’s been bothering me a lot lately. To the extent that I have been actively avoiding these friends. Funny, it started with me walking around saying “It’s all good”.

  41. @llama…my mom has done this to me my whole life, and up until very recently it would provoke such a deep emotional crying rage from me. I’m an adult! I’m not supposed to respond like that! LOL.

    She undermines me because it isn’t what I ‘should’ do (ie what she would like me to do, because she obviously knows whats best for everyone all the time). It’s taken so long to recognize that it’s a pattern I internalized, that I undermine myself as a result. I’ve also noticed myself behaving in similar ways. Happily my pluto sq pluto and pluto conjunct moon is really helping to illuminate all this and sort it out once and for all!
    I find that the closer the relationship you have to a person the more justified they feel in telling you what you ought to be doing, what’s good for you and what’s wrong with you.

    In the name of Pluto, Underminers begone!

  42. I’ve seen this before whilst going through your channel on YouTube and it made me laugh then and it makes me laugh now. Hahaha. I’ve taken the line ‘fix yourself’ and use it a lot especially when I haven’t asked for the help.

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