The other day a gal came on in the comments to report how she was repulsed by me. She explained that my Moon in Sagittarius opposed her Moon in Gemini and due to this she was miffed by me. My Sagittarius Moon has been troubling her for two years but the fact is I don’t have a Sagittarius Moon. I don’t have any planets in Sagittarius so this point out in space that she had been sparring with was created by her imagination. In short, she needed a villain.
Pluto was transiting Sagittarius opposite her Moon. She used the word ‘repulsed” so this seems a pretty clear case of taking what you don’t like (the shadow) and putting it on Elsa P because after all, she’s handy. And I am not mad at that woman, I am trying to make a point. If you can’t grok what I am saying you will never, ever understand my turning away from a wedding and the point is this:
I walk through this world as a slate people project on to. This is not because I am special, blessed or cursed. There is no judgment, it’s just the way it is.
That right there is a challenging concept for some though I am at a loss to understand why. It’s like people want to be able to deny their black hair, or the other person’s black hair. Why?
People have qualities. The qualities are shown in the chart and that’s it. End of story. Why we can’t each have our qualities is beyond me but anyway, this is not a mild phenomena around me. It is a profound phenomena and no one is immune. No one is immune to being tricked by me (and my imaginary Sadge Moon) and I am not immune to being tricked by them either.
I see this happen (consciously) many times each day and I am sure it happens millions of times a day in ways I don’t see but one thing for sure is this: It happens.
People look at me and the see things that are just not real. Like the gal railing against my Sagittarius Moon for two years, or the guy who bitched me out for leaving my two boys at home while I went to work, when in fact what I had was two dogs!
Even the people on this blog who are most compassionate to me fall prey. This weekend someone defended me by saying I was raised by Henry. I wasn’t raised by Henry. This is the same phenomena that gives me a Sadge moon, see? It’s the same phenomena that makes people think I am talking about them when I am not talking about them and this stuff… well it can just not be controlled (Saturn). It can be observed but that’s about it.
So here is the point: This happens to everyone who come sin contact with me and the soldier is no exception. He is not an exception now and he was not an exception 30 years ago so while he’s got a story he believes is real, I can tell you unequivocally his story is not real. Elements of it are real but from my perspective I would say he hit alongside the barn having missed the actual side completely.
That’s a pretty big discrepancy but lemme tell you, I am used to this and when I try to correct these discrepancies they often become larger and I’ll give you an example:
Let’s say that gal thinks I have a Sagittarius Moon – she KNOWS this. I say, “No I don’t have a Sagittarius Moon.”
At that point (and this is just a general example, not specific to her but so you can see how this works) she can shut off the projector and unravel her thinking of two years but with an investment as large as the one she’s got, she is just as likely, if not more likely to decide I am lying. You know. I am tricking her! And if she takes this very tempting path, it would be an uptick in the delusion.
Now if you are able to understand this then maybe you can understand how I would be inclined towards allowing people their misconceptions or delusions. It is almost always fruitless to try to combat them. It’s like going up against a tidal wave. I get crushed obviously.
If you ask the soldier why we didn’t marry, he will tell you that it’s because he’s a soldier.
“I was going into Special Forces and she did not want that kind of life so she turned me down. I wanted to marry her, I tried to marry her but she wouldn’t have me because I was going into Special Forces…”
That’s his story right there. He believes it though it is nowhere near accurate. Further, I have learned to sit next to him when he tells people this because it’s so much easier than launching a protest. I think this is disturbing but it’s also life and it is something we have in common actually.
The soldier virtually never tells anyone of his his history because when he’s tried, they don’t believe him. If they do believe him they say stupid things that are annoying. Virtually no one can understand anything he says and there is a reason for this.
The reason is because his experience is uncommon. It takes place on the very end of the continuum, a place people do not like to acknowledge even exists. He knows this so he does not inconvenience them. Literally.
What you don’t know is that I am in the same predicament. All my peers are dead too, have you noticed? Probably not.
We both have stories you’ve not heard the likes of but if we tell them what happens (as he says) is “people look at you like a hog looking at wrist watch” and who does that satisfy?
Personally, I think it’s important to get as much out as possible and so I have this thing called, “The Elsa Blog”. And I am going to come back and tell you about the obese Pisces with the googly eyes I knew when I was young. The story is vintage, before things and people had to be PC so extra credit for that.
And just to stay on task, what I am trying to get at and get in everyone’s head is this: I am not who you think I am and I don’t even have to know who you think I am to know this is true. I am not meant to be seen without distortion. If I was I’d not have Neptune on the midheaven.
You know how you can look at your image in the water and it’s all wavy. It’s possible if you look long enough, you will see a true reflection for the briefest instant and you’ll know it too. Eureka!
But it’s a flash in time and then the distortion (which is the norm) comes right back and you can see how there is nothing anyone can do. This stuff occurs in nature and there is a reason for it. I mean, what am I, some kind of accident? I don’t think so. I think a bunch of cards got dealt and I am one of them.
“I am not meant to be seen without distortion”
Elsa it is always a pleasure to read here, and this really made me think how people aren’t able to accept the qualities in their chart that give them grief from time to time.
I was of course the person who wrote “Elsa was raised by Henry” (I think I even used capitals, lol). In all honesty I was referring in a very convoluted way to how astounding I found it that someone wrote the things they wrote about what you were/are/whatever. Not a very succinct point, obviously, ha ha ha). I know you weren’t raised by Henry and it makes me feel sad that it’s out there in the blog that I said that because it does nothing to help.
kashmiri, don’t worry about it. I am going to write about this stuff awhile and maybe some lights will go on… or not.
Maybe some people will get pissed or who knows> Maybe they will get un-pissed?
So do you feel like you have a self, if you have one that everyone projects on? I mean…what I’m asking is that do you feel self-less, just changeable, or more that no one knows you? Or is it that the you inside is just so big that it can accomodate many sides? I’m sorry if I’m being redundant- I have similar issues, and sometimes I feel like a player of many roles, but inside I dont know if anyone will know me, so its just a relief to read your understanding. It makes me so sad-in a good way.
I just wonder how you got to this place where you feel sure that ppl. don’t know. Like the solid feeling inside?
sonah22 – that’s a good question. Yes I feel like I have a self. I am just at a loss as to why people look at (see) the fake thing when I am standing right there. It’s a puzzle I will never solve but I do think I can prove it’s existence.
If I can just say, I am relatively new here, and all of this negativity that you have been discussing that you receive, well I find it very strange. I guess there are alot of people out there looking for someone to project their shit on. I have no personal expectations of you, other than this is a fun, informative forum, and I really enjoy discussing astrology and learning at the same time. I have mentioned that I am the mother of a child with special needs – I need to be enormously patient with her, and I am, and I do sometimes save my shit up for other people. But it is never random – if someone is rude to me, I probably come back at them a whole lot harder than they expected, but hey, you know, they started it 🙂
“maybe some lights will go on… or not”
…and paranoid me will think there’s a seance when in actually fact you’re puttin’ on a disco?
Every body has their own story, perspective, take on any given situation and it is real to them – it may not be real to you and also may be a whole bundle of lies – but that’s what they identify with –
People make up things and see them as truth because – they do not want to befriend the shadow side of themselves – The hard part is being able to see your own stuff. I mean, that’s your stuff and anybody elses is thiers
You may be standing right there seeing what YOU think is yourself – but it’s your version of your truth – your story. The hard part is to unravel the shit – especially when you’re standing in it –
I reckon that Life is made to be a struggle towards self knowledge – You are a beautiful person and have a gift to articulate your thoughts that give to people as well as help you in your own journey of healing.
In saying that though – I also believe very much that “The questions have to be asked”…..even if it is only you who can answer them……
fascinating. one of the things that bothered me most about a friendship of mine was their persistent stories about me as someone i didn’t recognize. and inability or unwillingness to adjust the stories in light of my own objections.
perhaps the phenomena’s far more common than i realize… i know i have a lot of trauma around being misunderstood.
but my neptune square the ascendant (which i don’t know if yours is) is coming up from the IC…
anyway, i absolutely adore this line: “I think a bunch of cards got dealt and I am one of them.”
that sounds so purely archetypal it’s echoing around in my head 😉
by the way, i always connected uranus with tricksters more than neptune. in the sense of breaking up old ways of seeing. this makes some interesting food for thought….
And I see tricksters as Mercury. That was a poor choice of words. It is an illusion in both direction. I hope to illustrate this though the whole time I do this I think it is stupid of me.
weird but Venus in is Pisces and…
well, there’s that too… i have a hard time differentiating the two energies, but my mercury and uranus are kind of mixed up together 😉
well, how do you illustrate illusion? that’s quite a challenge to take on….
I really like this post. It felt balanced to me. That is my personal thing-that-is-pleased, but it did. And so I express that appreciation.
People project their shit on me all the time- still not sure what to “do about it, but reading abt these issues here is helpful though. Someone once told me it was my 1st house pluto that made them not understand me at all (having to unpeel all the onion layers) – but I don’t have npetune up high (it’s in the 3rd) wonder what else makes someone a target for this–
Like someone might hate themself or be angry at themself but instead they get angry at me or hate me for some quality, etc
Or do I just wind up somehow with people (usually women) who project? And it’s always so clear, to me, what the reality is, and so frustrating that they can’t see it. And it is pointless to protest. I trust my reality, they trust theirs, yet I know, I know, I’m right–
I have a sag moon…HE HE HE….
My best friend was a Gemini, she passed away a few years ago.
My other very good friend also a Gemini, moved to Japan.
I like them both very much
My father is a Gemini..
He repulses me….HE HE HE
But that has to do with his disgusting appetite for sleeping with anything with boobs married or not married…If it has boobs dad will follow..
I might be that gal. I’d just like to clarify that for me i didn’t realize it was a projection but rather thought it was from gathering information from when you reference the pluto/moon transit and your daughter which I believed was a conjunction because you have talked about having a Saggy moon before.
Hard to grok that this is not true but rather has been a projection. My mercury is in scorpio so I tend to sleuth.
Now I am starting to understand that you aren’t necessarily being specific when you talk about having a jupiter moon signature.. And at some point early on I figured because we seemed to be going through a pluto/moon transit at the same time that it was in opposition.
Since your moon isn’t in sag then I have been learning through this blog anyway.
And I used the word repulsed because you had asked if people found you/the blog repulsive and i was commenting. I don’t think it’s as clear cut when you ask for a comment on repulsion. I could as easily said I found you attractive since I read you every day. But it would be for the same reason lol your sag moon 😛
Thank you for mentioning this as it sheds light for me. Heh i might not even be the gal. mirrors.
For me the illusion or deception is about having children. I don’t have any. This seems to be a very perplexing problem for every woman or man that I encounter. There is no point in explaining why this is. Because people come up with there own ideas and I just let them talk.
I hate to ask a dumb question, but if you were having a Pluto transit to your moon when Pluto was in Sag, uh…Well, um, I can see why she thought you did, eh?
Anyhoo, back to projection: I’m not sure on this one. People assume I want kids when I don’t (even when I tell them flat out I don’t), but then again, it’s a major part of our culture that woman wants children, period, no matter what, so…it’s an uphill fight there. I don’t know if I could say it’s a personal projection so much as a general one on all women. Though my last ex insisting that “WHEN” we have kids sure felt personal.
My mom projects that I am her, and also that people are rejecting her left and right. That’s um, fun.
Elsa – earlier you said “I am just at a loss as to why people look at (see) the fake thing when I am standing right there. It’s a puzzle I will never solve but I do think I can prove it’s existence.” You’re right and it exists and like many things in this Universe it is known by many names. I worked for a sales training and professional development company for a while and one of the concepts we trained sales professionals in we called “Odds Are”.
Odds Are, simply put, means that the odds are 2 to 1 that the person you are speaking to is communicating through their own operating reality. We are ALL individuals with operating realities as unique as our finger prints. The realities are created from our experiences, upbringing, values, beliefs, morals, faith, etc. There are so many components to what makes up our operating realities that they have to be uniquely ours, see?
So it isn’t that people don’t understand you. Well it is….they don’t understand the you that only you really knows. And how could they? They would have to be communicating and seeing things through your exact operating reality and that isn’t possible, see? They understand you as their own operating reality translates you for them. They see you through their own eyes. Not yours.
This, of course, may be completely off the mark b/c I am translating your blog through my own operating reality here :o), but somehow it struck a chord with me. Thing is, that sometimes we ‘get’ each other. Sometimes we meet and/or know someone who sees things in much the same way that we do. The reason behind this is that somewhere along the line we’ve experienced the same things. Maybe not in exactly the same way, but close enough for horse shoes, you might say. Close enough that we can honestly understand part of where the other person is coming from – these are the glimpses you spoke of earlier where someone is able to see the real you briefly.
Sometimes we meet people who utterly bewilder us. They have experienced life in a completely different way than we have and therefore their operating reality and ours have nothing in common.
Does this feel right to you? It is a puzzle, as you say. An ever-changing puzzle because for every encounter or communication a person has there is a different part of their operating reality or life experience that is drawn upon to translate it for them and help them to respond. It isn’t even a conscious effort.
Yeah, sometimes it feels like you have a lot of Sag, (you do talk about having some jupiter influences in addition to Jup in Leo [I think you said]) and I think people may have come to that imprression because you have talked at some length about Pluto being on your moon all this time, (like, the 8 months I have been on your blog) when Pluto has been in late Sag all this time. I would have made the same error. Can you understand how someone might have made this error?
I am not missing the point about the hologram and the projecting and all that, I am sure that is all true. I just want to defend the mistaken person to say .. I would have thought you were moon in Sag also.
Loon, I already said I know how someone could make this mistake and I am aware of it anyway because at least once a month someone references my Sadge Moon in a comment.
I always correct them but whatever. It really was not my point. It was not the Moon she was projecting it was Pluto.
OK, sorry E, I missed that … that you already said it people thing you are sag moon. yeah, I surely understand how people might make that mistake … anyway, I missed it because sometimes I scan … sorry! Also, sorry if I didn’t get what it was that she was projecting, namely pluto not moon. Over my head, quite possibly. Not sure if I get it still, but it absolutely does not matter what I get. Or not. I accept what you are saying as true and apologize for my errors. I am very very error prone lately anyway.
Hey, E, I found out amazon dot com sells toys and puzzles and all kinds of stuff besides what might be expected. Today, just now, I just bought at least 13 items thru you! Hope it will be helpful to you!
“Today, just now, I just bought at least 13 items thru you! Hope it will be helpful to you!”
Loon, thank you and hell yes, it helps!! 🙂
I like it when you talk about this phenomenon having Neptune on the MC. Would a similar instance occur with a packed 12th, Neptune in the 12th, Neptune in the 10th, Pisces ruling the MC & such… are these all interchangeable to this phenomenon…Im guessing so
“Would a similar instance occur with a packed 12th, Neptune in the 12th, Neptune in the 10th, Pisces ruling the MC & such… are these all interchangeable to this phenomenon…Im guessing so”
Yes and no. Neptune in the 10th/Saturn in the 12 or in Pisces, Neptune in cap,Pisces midheaven are similar. “Planets in the 12th” is a different matter. 🙂
hmm if you don’t mind my asking, what is your moon sign elsa? *curious* if you wouldn’t mind sharing that is.. and if you do you absolutely do not have to.
well i’m sure you know you don’t have to *rolls eyes at self* just saying it out of courtesy lol.
jo, my Moon is in Private.
gotcha. I understand 🙂
And i’m sorry if that was rude of me to ask, i didn’t mean to “pry”. But when i say that i understand i really mean it. I understand the reasoning behind keeping certain things underwraps. Absolutely.
It’s not rude. Don’t worry about it. 🙂
Hey, y’all (esp. Libragirl):
Ever heard of the phenomena of premature cognitive commitment? Well, here it is in brief:
To make a very young elephant stay in one place while being trained, you might tie it, let’s say, to a green stick. When that elephant grows up you could chain it to a tree & if it wanted to it would just take the chain (and the tree) with it. Solution? Tie it to a green stick ~ it’ll be there waiting for you when you get back.
Fish who are forced by the insertion of a clear barrier from swimming in one half of a tank will continue, upon the removal of the barrier, to swim in their formerly designated half. Flies similarly forced to fly beneath a clear barrier will continue to limit themselves after its removal as well.
Finally some genius conducted the ultimate low-overhead, award-winning experiment by raising two litters of kittens in separate rooms. In one room there were no horizontal visual stimuli, only vertical; in the other, the opposite: no vertical visual stimuli, only horizontal. When the kittens grew up, the ones raised in the horizontal room were physically unable to perceive vertical visual stimuli, and would actually and consistently walk into them if not prevented. Same with the other litter ~ horizontal stimuli were simply not perceived as real by them.
It takes the human brain about 1/33 of a second to register a sensory impression. We have room on the surface of our brains (conscious thought) to accommodate a limited number of these perceptions. In contrast with these limitations of time and space, each of those 33ds of a second are packed with billions of bits of sensory information: many times more than we individually can ever process.
Essentially, we come here to live in isolation chambers; individual worlds which have only a tenuous communicative contact with the other worlds by which we are surrounded and with whom we must find a way to continue existence in the most harmonious way available to our collective level of consciousness.
So, the other is seeing you ~ it’s just that they’re seeing only the very small part of you which is visible to them. As in the fable of the blind men and the elephant, they must piece together their picture of you from these fragmented hints and the precedent of their own experiences in this one lifetime in this one dimension of this one planet.
Every single person who looks at you sees something completely different from what each other person sees, and not one of them sees what you see.
The good news is, when we get to the place where we begin to transcend words, all becomes known in love about all. That’s when confusion takes a long, long vacation.
Something to look forward to!
Hope this helped shed some light,
Elsa – I have 12th house saturn and venus trine mc, so that’s similar?
Ana Lee – fascinating! I’ve studied similar phenomena in a linguistics/semantics class. It also reminds me of something I heard regarding Columbus’ arrival to the new world. As the ships approached land, the natives on shore literally could not SEE them, they had no frame of reference with which to perceive them.
for me, this is a huge reason why astrology is helpful. As a symbolic system, it speaks to the deeper parts of ourselves, the parts that have existed before we were socialized, before language. Archetypes are primal, they spring from the collective psyche, and so astrology helps me figure out what archetypes are central to my journey here on earth, this lifetime.
dorchid: Okay, that was well written, and a wonderful addition to my post!
Elsa, how close is the conjunction of your MC and Neptune?
that is very interesting that people need to villainize. i’m sure we all do it. I do it too, unconsciously. how awful sometimes to be lost in confusion.
some sag moons get on very well with Gemini moon, opposite, and marry eachother. but I think it depends too on the rest of the chart. i can see how someone got confused that you had two sons instead of two dogs. maybe in your writing there’s ‘my boys’ instead of my dogs. so they jumped to conclusions imagining all sorts of horror.