I am aware of a large number of relationships that have fractured over politics. This is due the Saturn Uranus opposition of course but it struck me today how really unusual this is. Matter of fact, I have never seen anything like it in my entire life.
Marriages and friendships are breaking up over this. Families are splitting right down party lines and what kills me is that young people probably think this is normal. Well it’s not normal.
What is normal in this country, is the idea people held their views and voted in accord with them and that was that. No one ever broke up because he was a Democrat and she, a Republican. Nobody ever quit being friends over something like this, it was just unheard of, never mind the people I know who are not speaking to members of their own family who hold opposing views.
To me, this is a sure sign the society is coming down. I just see no way it can be sustained.
What do you think?
I have noticed this alot, even in me somewhat. I find it weird,like ohhh so and so is a republican what is wrong with them,lol. I am usually pretty tolerant. My husband is on the right I am on the left. When the “discussions” get heated I end the talk, cause I get irrate. I would end the relationship or friendship over it , it just stay away from certain topics. I wouldn’t not be friends with someone cause they were protestant or baptist or atheist.
I avoid certain topics – religion, politics – unless I am among like-minded people, because, people are so polarized. And no-one is going to change my mind about certain things – gay rights, right to choose, etc. – that I just find the arguments a useless merry-go-round, and I refuse to participate. I can’t say that I have left a friendship because of it, because quite frankly, I am drawn to people who think like I do regarding these matters. It is true that there seems a limited ability among many to debate these matters without blowing their stacks, and just becoming furious.
Watch the fox news network sometime…
Then turn on CNN
and if you really want a laugh watch CSPAN live
on the floor of the Senate or Congress.
As you say to yourself…”Is this for real are these people actually elected officials ? ”
The hair cuts alone will leave you gasping…
THEN TURN ON THE DAILY SHOW
it will be very hard to tell what is supposed to be comedy and what is supposed to be serious……LOL
I agree with you.
My mom and dad had “his and hers” campaign signs one year haha. Political debate was really encouraged in their diner amongst all the regulars. People of all ideologies.
Seems like we can’t disagree anymore without it becoming personal. “Agree to disagree” is a thing of the past. Our need to be right demands that we prove someone wrong. This need becomes stronger than the principles we were fighting over in the first place. Don’t you dare tell me I’m wrong about this… lol
If you can’t respect people’s right to have alternate viewpoints, you’re not fulfilling your role as a citizen of a democracy. citizen of a fascist state, maybe. like 1984.
better yet, respect the _need_ to have alternate viewpoints around to stretch your mind and catch you when you’re being an idiot…
…and how anyone can disown a family member over _politics_ blows my mind. shouldn’t family be far more valuable than that?
i think a lot of people are going to be living with some pretty serious regrets about this sort of thing, eventually.
wyrdling – I’ve seen it. You don’t hate Sarah Palin? Get the fuck out!
Hi Reality, nice to see you!
I wanna cry!
How can people let something get between something so meaningful as friendship or family!?
Yea, Toni, I was thinking the same…
I’m a young people and I see it in my own family. My dad (the double Scorpio) would rail against Obama, the leeberals and all that. He’s a smart guy but can get extremely stratified in his views. My ma (the triple Sadge) was all for Obama but is never too into politics. However, with people my own age, I can say the general attitude is apathetic. The government seems to constantly betray us so we’re given up on it or have become highly cynical while still holding extremely idealistic attitudes. Most people I know just want to live their lives while occasionally helping others if they can. There are those who hold strong opinions but I think they’ve become accustomed to acquiescing and being “tolerant”. Apathy is touted as being America’s destruction and it’s a real problem in the gen-yers like myself. I’m not sure but then I don’t really care.
It’s an ego problem anyway you look at it. If you are inflexible, some day you will break. Either your mind will break, or your body will break. Would you rather be happy? Or would you rather be right? I would rather be happy.
Huh, I can’t say that I’ve seen this lately. I dated a guy who had a number of opinions that were political that didn’t sync with mine. We would argue, discuss, debate, talk about all sorts of things. He organized college kids for a political party that I didn’t agree with much anything they stood for but somehow we still managed to stay together for sometime. We broke up for other reasons and years later he came back around because “I treated him with the most respect of anyone he knew” Despite the disagreements. My friends and family couldn’t believe, when I was dating him, that I would date someone with such contrary political beliefs.
I still think well of him all these years later and know of him through his larger role in the community.
I wonder if it has something to do with expecting people to walk the talk and a feeling that a lot of expressed political attitudes aren’t being walked.
I saw a lot of the same thing in the 1960’s and early 70’s
Marley – that’s interesting. I did not but I was young.
I don’t think the country has been this polarized since the civil war and further, there was nothing at stake then like there is now.
gosh, it seems like the old fashioned idea that it’s best not to talk politics with certain people if you’re not willing to get offended has been forgotten…
it seems pretty nuts. even if the country falls apart, it’s your family that’s supposed to be there for you. so which is more important? *sigh*
It’s an interesting topic, Elsa – disturbing too, I agree.
I’m wondering whether the internet has a big part to play in the way polarization seems to have hardened. In the past, although there was the same division in opinion, people had a far more limited circle of contacts and much less exposure to both sides of the debate.
I haven’t been in the USA long enough to know how it was before, but my American husband often says that “it was never like this – not ever”.
The internet is the one new element in the picture.
I believe things like this come in cycles and your right the Civil War is one example in our history. I’m personally working on not arguing for the sake of arguing. We each hold our own truths and arguing with someone is not the best way to sway them your way to see your persepective. When opinons differ from my own, I get in a more selfish mode and try and think what this person provides that I need be it my mother, father, sister or friend.
Eh, so far I’ve seen no breakups here. I think in my family we’re mostly used to who’s on what side and whoever’s in the opposing minority camp at that time learns to keep their mouth shut around the collective because nobody’s going to be changing their minds.
Though it was interesting to find out that my mother is a Republican solely because her parents were and she thinks it is disloyal to them to do otherwise…plus she pays no attention to politics.
I’m impressed by the reasonableness of the comments above and at the risk of incitement I have to say I think the division is more than political: I believe it may be structural [down to the DNA] and on a really really simple level can be reduced to those with advantages in life [for whatever reason] and those without. The have/have-nots battle has been going on as long as we’ve been here and until we can balance that within & without [do not ask me how], it’s probably going to get worse but I believe we’re working on it. Thank you for letting me share.
My family has had issues with this. I used to go round and round with my one brother who is quite fiery. We are on opposite ends generally. Here is the thing; I would respectfully ask him NOT to send me a million of his political emails every week, and he refused to leave me alone. Especially with the religious stuff too b/c I am a different religion now than my family, by choice. He seemed to think my soul and brain needed saving and it was insulting to me, especially after I’d asked him not too. We got quite heated a few times! Now, however, we have both matured and respect each other’s boundaries. It’s good.
I found this post particularly relevant b/c last week I was at my friends and her husband blurts out something opposite my views regarding the money promised to public schools. It was a very pointed discussion and he asked my opinion so I gave it! I have been getting away from that friend for a few reasons, and in an instant, I was reminded that though we have many things in common, our basic values are widely opposed. It was a bit disconcerting. I have been rethinking friendships through this Venus retro.
Hi Elsa, You said: …that’s interesting. I did not but I was young. I don’t think the country has been this polarized since the civil war and further, there was nothing at stake then like there is now.
I was in college in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Living in Cleveland, Ohio – where there were riots over civil right. People burning down houses, and neigborhoods, National Guardsmen shooting students at Kent State University, marches in Washington D.C., chants of “hey hey hey LBJ, how many people did you kill today”?, young men fleeing to Canada to avoid the draft, and families pulled apart because of race, politics, and war. Drugs were prevalent – Timothy Leary and LSD, flower children high on the streets of San Francisco.
Honestly, those were the times I remember…
With Pluto in Capricorn, and the outer planets lining up with forward motion into Cardinal signs, we are going to see a repeat of those years.
It’s Cardinal squares and oppositions of outer planets that bring this type of energy.
Sadly, humans don’t seem to learn their history lessons…
But Marley, that was a protest of a war / a sexual revolution. Fundamental change of the government and power distribution in this country (checks and balances) and it’s business system (Capitalism) was not up for debate.
Yes, it was different – but it was the same….
People hated and were divided. People were being beaten and shot for what they believed in. Politics divided people…and families.
The division was different – but it was division, and it was very heated and outwardly displayed.
Though it wasn’t over whether you were Republican or Democrat – it was if you were a Liberal or one of “The Silent Majority” as they refered to Conservatisim.
It was very reflective of the Pluto conjunct Uranus symbolism that brought revolutionary change to this country. Both those planets were at the end of Virgo moving forward into Libra, which challenged and changed all sorts of relationships.
Pluto and Uranus don’t make change easy or comfortable.
(quote) “Chicago ‘68 was more than just another in a series of antiwar protests, and it was more than just a riot—no matter, whose riot. Chicago ‘68 was a focal point of the decade. On the streets and in the parks of Chicago the social conflicts of the Sixties were on display.
Heads were cracked, tear gas billowed, police lines advanced through demonstrators—and television cameras captured some of the graphic scenes. The eyes of the nation focused on Chicago and we decided who we were, what side we were on, and what we would fight for. Chicago changed minds, Chicago changed politics, Chicago changed the Left, Chicago changed the media, Chicago changed those who were here and those who watched from far away…”
My parents ( ages 60 and 70) have a group of friends from their church they’ve been getting together with on weekends and whatnot for years- drinking wine and playing cards- hosting dinners at various houses, etc. These people are mild mannered midwesterners who rarely get riled up-especially over ‘issues’ and over the course of the last year or two, their group of pals has completely fractured and broken up over right-left politics. One guy sent my stepfather a racist Obama email, and one woman called Bush an idiot, and things escalated to the point where they do not communicate. That blows my mind.
Is this a Scorpion’ian behavior. This is what Scorpians do… shutting off completely. They usually have their own rigid views… thats : either my way or highway. And this is what am seeing around me. They generally do not subsribe to a group or a community but have an opinion of their own and sticking to it whatever comes. Generally I see a lot of anger over small matters and a lot of frustration due to these things here
Well, the results of capitalism and power imbalances, as well as a person’s political views could be avoided. You can’t go on your feed and avoid such things, lest you cut out the offender. Otherwise, you’d have to stop,listen interact, not many have that kinda time, nor patience. I believe that is also a result of the issues at hand
Wow. You called this years in advance. Think about how much worse it is now?? Many relationships, familial or friendship, broke down during Jupiter in Libra after the most recent elections. It’s gross and I really can’t stand how polarizing it is anymore. I just wish people would learn how to be civil over differences. I don’t tell people my religion or my political leanings or engage in conversation about either.
This is the first time in my life I’ve ever blocked a family member’s number over politics, seen my fellow Americans radicalized in such large numbers, or heard people say, on a regular basis, that we’re losing our country. I’ve also never seen people who didn’t vote for a particular candidate demonize as “radical leftists” or “racists” before.
I’m beginning to think the United States will not survive Pluto in Capricorn.