Pluto Transit To The Moon – Mine: How To Help People Dealing With Loss And Trauma

A plusllama writes on Pluto Moon Back To School Night…

Sometimes, especially with grief, etc., when people DO talk you wish they hadn’t. Better for them to say nothing than say something callous because they don’t know what to say.

llama, this is a very good point. A lot of people who commented thought these people should have said something to me and they might have but I can’t say I wish they would have. It was very emotional for me going into this new version of my daughter’s old school because I had such high hopes for her. She did eventually test in the 99th percentile – the girl is a bonafide genius and it was just never supposed to turn out like it has.

Had her friend or her friend’s mother had said anything, odds are high they’d have started me crying since I do that so easily anyway and if they were probing out of curiosity… well I’d have cried over that too right before I told them to kiss my ass at the top of my lungs. Yeah, best to let the volcano lie but what was brought home to me as to the astrology was this line – “That is that I am the only one having the experience I am having.”

Everyone’s experience is personal of course but when you are talking Pluto Moon, it is the most personal of all. It is so deeply internal, your senses are very heightened as is your instinct and just all the primal sort of functions.

This is very different from the social level many are functioning on at a gathering of this kind but the Scorpio Moon, or the 8th house Moon, or the Pluto Moon or the Pluto Moon transit person is aware of all the undertow and really nothing but. And so much is going on (this teacher wants to assert her authority from day one… this person is not feeling good at all, etc, etc) below the surface it’s almost a jolt when someone speaks to you because you’re expected to use your mind which is not where you are at in the moment.

I experienced this as well (and have been experiencing it). Will write about it if I get the time and energy but I just wanted to agree with llama… and I’ve said it before.

If you don’t know what to say, saying nothing is a damned good choice. You know, people find ways to be kind. If you want to be kind, there is certainly a way to do it but when you are dealing with the deeply traumatized you should be damned sure whatever you do does not hold expectation they do something back or in return, otherwise you have just made yourself a burden to the already heavily burdened.

See in this situation probably the best that other mother could do is to tell her son, “You be nice to that, Vidroid in there because he has been through hell.” And if her kid is compassionate he will respond and Vid and I will know nothing of it which means we will not be required to respond and just the idea of that makes me sigh with relief.

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Pluto Transit To The Moon – Mine: How To Help People Dealing With Loss And Trauma — 27 Comments

  1. My friend’s baby daughter died from SIDS a couple of years ago. I just remember she was in unbelievable pain, and bitterness because other people’s kids get to grow up but not hers. And then people come up to her at the funeral and say things like “it’s God’s will.”

    I know they meant well, but what the fuck consolation is that to her? With them going smugly back to their kids while she’s scrubbing the mud stains the paramedics left on her carpet.

    And yes, she came to peace about it eventually, but that peace is not likely to happen the day of the f-ing funeral.

    I don’t hold it against them, because it’s a natural urge to consolidate and protect from threat (in this case, someone else’s problems are the threat). But, sheesh, a little self-awareness could spare the grieving so much pain.

  2. llama – I can’t imagine someone saying that to me. I am just way too scary or something. And I actually don’t feel resentful (really) except for when someone mistreats me. That makes me very angry because as I have outlined before (search Elizabeth Smart on this blog)

    I think I carry more than my share of the burden of the collective (I always have) and this spares others. So while you may not want to help someone like me out, you can at least refrain from spitting.

  3. There are definitely clueless people out there…no doubt about it, but I know sometimes my foot gets in my mouth because I’m trying so hard to keep it out of there. I recently went to a friend of mine’s husband’s funeral and all I could think was don’t talk about your husband and yet after I hugged her and she commented that she was needing to store up on hugs and I said my husband and I would be glad to come hug her. Definitely not what I wanted to say and I certainly didn’t want to inflict pain, but I’m afraid it might have. So I’m working at stopping at the hugs.

  4. “the Scorpio Moon, or the 8th house Moon, or the Pluto Moon or the Pluto Moon transit person is aware of all the undertow and really nothing but. And so much is going on (this teacher wants to assert her authority from day one… this person is not feeling good at all, etc, etc) below the surface it’s almost a jolt when someone speaks to you because you’re expected to use your mind which is not where you are at in the moment.”

    Wow… I have Pluto Moon opposite (square Mercury Saturn conjunct) and it is so validating to read this. I really dislike social functions like this, because it is exactly as you describe – all this stuff going on that you are not allowed to talk about. And all these undercurrents in myself too, that are hard to ignore. I have to remind myself that the icky parts are only a part of people (and me), there are other parts, too. Thanks for giving voice to something that is hard to give voice to.

  5. Poor Heather. 🙁

    I think when something like that happens, all know it’s just an error and while embarrassing it is not malicious which people can certainly tell (unless they are looking for someone to make a fall guy in which case there is no way to save yourself anyway)

  6. Elsa, I wasn’t meaning to say you were bitter, just that my friend definitely was. People deal in different ways. I do agree with the not kicking people when they’re down thing. From both what you said and what Heather said.

    I think, Heather, that most of the gaffes come from well-meaning people. I have gaffed before with that very same friend, and I certainly didn’t mean it. It’s hard NOT to offend someone when they are that raw. I think the key is to make sure you are there for the person much more than you gaffe. Which, if you are only going to the funeral and that’s it, then better not to say much or anything, because if you gaffe and leave, then it’s really not helping the person.

    But if you gaffe a little, and then make a casserole because you know the person is too depressed to cook and eat properly, and if you cut their grass, and just let them be crazy without judging them, well then the gaffe isn’t as big of a deal (assuming it was accidental).

  7. Well, then the big question that I’ve always had: How CAN people connect with each other when they’re in pain — one or both? Is it even possible?

    B

  8. llama – didn’t take it that way, I was just sharing my perspective on this. I like your questions and in fact have just written two more blogs because of you which is very helpful to me.

    In other words you are virile, I am fertile or something like that. You know what I mean – I appreciate it and am not having problems here but appreciate your sensitivity.

  9. So, if I know someone at work who is losing a child to cancer, which I do, I just look ’em in the eye, give them a soul smile that says “I know, and I’m with you in spirit,” but say nothing. What could I possibly say? They’re probably tired of rehashing the same how-is-he script for everyone who asks, and I’m not going to put them through that another time. But I’m not going to avoid them, either, like it’s contagious or like I can’t face such an ugly truth. I’m hoping the look is enough.

  10. I think I have already experienced this month’s total solar eclispe on Aug 1st, a month ago. I am Aquarian and this eclispe fell in my 7th house. My fiance died 6/28/08. His funeral was 7/2/08, just a day after my grandfather also died. People really don’t know how to deal with what I am going through, nor should they have to. But a simple acknowledgement, a simple I’m sorry for your loss does let me know people do care for me.

  11. Wow, Claylady. I’m so sorry to hear that. Thanks for posting here . . .

    I feel like this is something I want to learn as a human, how to put other humans who are suffering at ease.

    My response last night to the original post, that they should have said something to Elsa, just came out of kind of what you said, Claylady, a simple connect.

    And like Elsa said, it’s not asking her to do anything, but letting her know, they’re aware, they are present. Otherwise, I don’t know, it just seems strange not to say anything at all, seems like it would be so alienating.

    I guess it’s just a very delicate balance.

  12. {{{Claylady}}} – i’m so sorry to hear about your loss…

    you know, i’ve put my foot in my mouth plenty of times, and other times, i’ve felt better about how i’ve been able to respond.

    i find it’s important to distinguish between what makes ME feel better and what makes someone else feel better. the “god’s will” folks are looking to make themselves feel better, probably without being aware.

    i also don’t suggest friends in crisis call me “if they need anything.” that puts the burden back in their lap for deciding what they need, deciding if they are comfortable asking for it, and asking. i do check in with them more often and try to anticipate some of their needs where i can. little things, like an outing, a book, things to cheer them up.

    and i never ask about what’s going on, beyond letting them know i’m thinking of them, because you get SO sick of rehashing your pain over and over and sometimes, you just want a damned break.

  13. I think it is a point well taken to be there at other times or do what you can. I haven’t been around that friend in a while, but I found a cache of pictures from an era when we all hung out and there were some great ones of this man and his beautiful smile. I gave them to her and thought of the boxes of pictures you (Elsa) have gotten and I hope they are received in the spirit they were intended.

    Goddess…great advice. And I would add shield a close friend if you can from onlookers…offer to return phone calls or run interference, things like that.

  14. “I find it’s important to distinguish between what makes ME feel better and what makes someone else feel better.” That’s a good point Goddess.

    But what do you do then? It’s almost impossible to know what makes someone else feel better unless they make it clear, because really, there is so much variation from one person to another. I’ve learned sometimes it’s better to ask first than to risk getting it wrong and offending them. I mean, what if they don’t want to be visited, touched, talked to, etc.? What if they just want to be left alone? Or perhaps they really do want some company, but only when they are ready and comfortable (i.e. don’t call them, they’ll call you)? You see, it’s hard to tell since everyone has their own preference, comfort level, desire for privacy, etc. And it’s so easy to cross all these invisible boundaries, unless they’ve been made visible. Sometimes it’s better to do nothing unless you’ve known the person for a long time and really KNOW or they have indicated their preference somehow. But I don’t know, perhaps some people are just better at figuring these things out than others.

  15. Claylady I’m sending you lots of love and light…I hope it serves you in the way you need. 🙁
    As for truly connecting to people who are grieving I actually don’t believe it to be possible. Grief, like all spiritual quests, somehow seem to begin and end with the Self.

  16. another good point, ana – one person’s comfort is another’s poke in a sore sport, i guess.

    and i agree with you kashmiri that grief is quite personal, but i do believe that others can support and help hold you up during parts of the quest, you know? when i’m in pain, i reach out to my friends, and i do feel the connection and it helps me. but i know everyone has to ultimately come to their own resolutions through their own process.

  17. I usually ask what people need, and offer suggestions of what I could do. Of course, it’s ok if a friend says, “I don’t know.” I also keep a mental rolodex of local therapists with good references, reputable organizations and services etc for research or referrals in the event that what is needed is beyond my ability to handle.

  18. I guess I read this from a very different point of view. So please – just remember this is my perspective – not necessarily right…

    I think that we have culturally programmed words to say in particular situations. They aren’t formalized quite as much as in someplace like Japan but they’re still there. People say those stupid things because that is what our culture has taught us to say in situations with someone in pain. We often haven’t explored our own grief or pain in this life on a level that would allow us to reach for better words or a better interaction – so we stick with the script. Partly out of lack, partly out of reaction, partly out of kindness but the script? (or scripts) do come out at funerals, hospitals, etc.

    So then I think that the scripts put distance between us and the other person, they prevent real connection. But then again – does everyone want real connection with everyone else at that kind of time in their life? Or do they want to be left alone to grieve and then will reach out when they are ready?

    I really don’t have a good answer. So personally I stick with “i’m so sorry”

    and then get yelled at by others for apologizing all the time.

    oh well, wishing those in pain healing.

  19. goddess–sore sport somehow seems aptly apt, as well, lol. This is something I’ve been thinking about lately (being able to connect, what makes compassion what it is, etc).

    I started thinking about this when a friend of mine was waxing sentimental about “always having someone there for you when you call; she wanted to know if I had the same experience.

    I said “No, life has transpired in such a way that when I reach out, (a) the phone has died (b) the person isn’t home (c) the cellphone cuts out.”

    I kid you not. It seems the one time in this life I ‘got through’ was the night I tried to commit suicide when I was 16.
    A friend heard and drove right over.

    The thing is…a person has to wonder. What is this about my being that has attracted this circumstance? This dynamic? Should I endeavour to change it?No I don’t think so. I got in this life what I need, so I need to find another channel.

    Personally I feel that I have the capacity to aid healing in other humans, and so I’m being shown pain. My teacher has told me that whoever your teacher is, has been through your journey.

    I don’t worry too much if people say stupid things. I think of myself as highly equipped to deal with grief (I’m built for it, and I don’t mean that in a negative way). I feel like people who say “stupid things” are actually just in a state of learning still, and let’s face it, we all made mistakes when we were growing up…well the growing up never ends!

  20. Scorpio Moon here, and I pick up on undercurrents all the time. It can be a gift, you know. Years ago, the father of a man I’d been dating for some time was terminally ill. We went to visit and it was very clear to me, sitting in this living room with my boyfriend, his dad, and the dad’s wife ( my bf’s stepmom), that there was a “don’t talk about the illness” rule. But that’s not what I picked up from his dad at all. And I couldn’t help it… maybe it’s my Gemini…but I just gently started asking. The stepmom glared and my bf looked uncomfortable but his dad just talked and talked. Grief is an unpredictable thing you know. I think people who are grieving have a radar and will connect with whomever they want when they want, and it’s not always with the people you’d expect. To be honest, it’s much harder for me to honor my OWN loved ones’ “process” when it comes to deep loss, depression, or grieving. It’s so easy to worry, to fret, and to expect something in return from them as I reach out. I’m so glad Elsa mentioned the notion of feeling burdened– it’s my new prayer. Please, help me lift others burdens, and not add to them…..

  21. maureen–agreed. I just went up to my friend’s father at my friend’s funeral and said “you did such a good job raising your son.”
    it was a beautiful moment and i definitely broke some kind of ‘rule’ but it felt more than fine.

  22. “I’m so glad Elsa mentioned the notion of feeling burdened– it’s my new prayer. Please, help me lift others burdens, and not add to them…..”

    maureen, that is very sweet and I think I will hitchhike on this. Good plan for tough times. A great way to improve the quality of the soul, sounds like. Thanks.

  23. Kashmiri – “Grief, like all spiritual quests, somehow seem to begin and end with the Self.” Indeed it does. What feels like connection can sometimes just be an illusion. Grief and pain are just so intensely personal. It feels like a time when you have to give energy back to yourself and connect with yourself in peace and solitude.

    “life has transpired in such a way that when I reach out, (a) the phone has died (b) the person isn’t home (c) the cellphone cuts out.” Yup, me too. I just don’t get anything out of it when I reach out or when others try to reach me. So it ends up feeling like a burden. But it feels less burdensome to withdraw and just focus on self for a while.

  24. There are so many good comments here. . ..
    Claylady, you’ve got a spot on my happy-vibe list. E, I hope you know you’re always there *hugs*.

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