The movie, We Need To Talk About Kevin is a disturbing film, based on a fictional book about a psychopathic child. The teenager winds up murdering his peers at school, so it’s certainly a subject that’s relevant to the collective at this time.
The focus of the movie is on the mother. Her story is told through flashbacks of scenes of her son growing up spliced with scenes that depict her experience in the community after the mass killing takes place.
Early in the movie, she wakes to find people have splashed the front of her house with something red that looks like blood. I related to her, immediately, because I have lived in a stigmatized home most of life. I’ve written about this before: Astrology, Murder And “Stigmatized Homes”
Unfortunately, I also know all about being the shadow mother. It’s a brutal experience; enormously demanding and challenging to endure.
I am posting this for people who have Saturn in Scorpio transiting their 4th house, Pluto transiting their moon, people with Scorpio moons or moons in the 8th or in aspect to Pluto natally. You know…my people.
I do recommend this movie. I’m glad it was made.
Have you ever been cast as the evil mother or lived in a stigmatized home? What’s the astrology?
Yes, I have. I’ve none of the aspects that you have mentioned. I do have a 4 planet stellium in my 8th house, tho. And that stellium includes Sun conjunct the asteroid Ceres trining Saturn in the 4th. The “evilness” (as sometimes sized up by others) of my personality is not restricted to motherhood.
No, but both my mom and stepmom were/have been incredibly unkind, some might call it evil, to me. I’ve moved so many times in my life and I’ve never gone back to any of the houses, so I have no idea if they are still standing. To my recollection, the houses have been just fine. Although, the house I’m living in now has changed hands frequently and I’m getting ready to move from it myself.
I have Pluto conjunct my IC natally and he is transit conjunct my moon now.
moon opposite pluto in T square w/ saturn in 5th in scorpio.
hell, yes, I was a stigmatized mother!! 😉
Let’s see …abandoned by fiance after conception, blamed for that by friends, so abandoned some more, stigmatized at church and by other mothers, with some rare exceptions, and tragically, later, my daughter was raped (persephone/pluto myth) at school, and violently hit on hockey field, and she became a pariah at same time …. and somehow I was blamed for it all.
but in a way they were correct, because it was MY aspect…
Sooooo …the bravest thing i ever did was to send my daughter away, but help her to feel loved at the same time. We Skye a lot. I pay for the psychotherapy needed.
I also try to work constructively with the Pluto/Moon energy: focusing on positive expressions of pluto through social change in my hometown, personal transformation, & investment management.
My pluto is also the focal point of a kite involving venus and neptune in addition to moon-pluto opp. Made it easier for me to work with.
whoops… meant to type”Skype”!!!
what an interesting article! I have a 5th house scorpio moon that is locked in a very tight fixed t- square with mars and venus, pluto in the 4th opposed mars, saturn currently transiting my natal pluto and the last bit of my 4th house, and a packed 8th house.
I am not currently a mother but am familiar with stigmatized homes and plutonian nuturing through the experiences of my own mother. I was raised by a scorpio rising conj jupiter mom, with pluto conjunct her mc, significant scorpio and 8th house placement in her chart.
She, my grandparents, aunt and uncles grew up in a stigmatized home where they were harassed by other family members, suffered estrangement from them and was also subject to those family members actively trying to place hexes and other black magic spells on the family and the home. In my life, she has also been cast as villainous force by others. My father passed when I was of early age and it was always a goal of hers to make sure I was still in close contact with my paternal roots.Despite her vehement efforts this did not happen and they were all but virtually absent from my life. They made every attempt to blame her for their absence and almost refusal to participate in my life on her, telling me she was seeking to manipulate, dominate and isolate me so that I could grow up hating them and loving her. I grew up extremely confused and resenting her, as all my cancer rising self wanted was a true sense of family. My mother, a cancer moon, has played surrogate mother to many children and is oft accused of the same things in her quest to care for them when they have been abandoned and mistreated by their own mothers. The examples in her life of plutonian stigmatization are endless. As I got older and more comfortable and understanding of my own plutonian nature (and the demonization that often comes from others because of it), I have been able to understand her, forgive and sympathize with her plight. Because of her experiences I am a little apprehensive to become a parent or participate in family dynamics as I do not want to suffer through the same villainization or have my children suffer because of it. Glad to have read this however. I think I will go and give my pluto mom a call and say thanks for her protection and for taking all those bullets in the quest to parent me. And much love to the the rest of the pluto mommies here!
Interesting, if not worrying read. I am not a mother and doubt I will be now as I still haven’t met anyone and don’t think I will anytime in the next few years (happy being single at the moment), but I have both Moon (conj Venus) in the 8th and both oppose Pluto in Scorpio.
So does this mean I’ll have a lot of problems as a mother if I become one in the future? Will I be stigmatized by others and be seen as a bad mother causing problems for my child(ren)?
I’ve had many bad experience with a number of other females in the past so would not be surprised by this.
Plus I noticed that when I’m around 40 Pluto will be squaring my Moon, so likely that most problems in association with this would be around the time that I would have children of a young age by then. Wouldn’t want to cause any problems for them due to my natal and transiting aspects then.
I really liked that movie. Tilda Swinton is amazing.
Yes. Almost the whole time my son was in my care. It was absolutely, absolutely brutally painful. To be perceived as doing that *wrong* by anyone is horrible; to be seen that way by a whole community and your own family…man.
Thinking about it makes me stop breathing for a second. Let’s see, moon conjunct neptune in the tenth, square mars leo in the eighth, opposite chiron, two directions.
My son has the moon in the 12th in Leo, right on the cusp, square the sun in Taurus in the 10th house.
I’m surprised we survived it.
Moon/Pluto conj. here. I was raised by a mother who is a double Scorp and Moon in Scorpio. I don’t know if we had a bad rap in the ‘hood but I always felt that she invited the disenfranchised and dangerous into our homes for dinner and general social gatherings, which made life incredibly interesting for me…I didn’t always feel safe around these people but was amazed my mother could wield such a heavy atmosphere with ease and aplomb. One guy she used to have over lived in his car after being thrown out due to his raging alcoholism. Then he committed suicide. Another was a cocaine user and smoked pot all the time, and some were drifters, poets, artists and intellectuals. I am sure if other families knew of the company my parents kept, they would have stigmatized us. No doubt.
Does Pluto in the 4th House fall within this energy?
This really rings true for me. I’m not aware of how I’d be or provide a “stigmatized home”, but won’t rule it out. I’d like to know a LOT more about the ‘shadow mother’ idea. If I think about my Mom & my home, growing up. I think we were stigmatized in ways (not as well off finacially) as most in our area. I also remember my Mom always being seen as somewhat of an outsider.
My 4th house starts at the end of Libra, so saturn is in my 4th in scorp right now. I just finished up tr. pluto to my moon (and sun). AND I also have pluto in aspect to most planets in my chart, include a strong square to my moon.
Thanks Elsa 🙂
I have this in my netflix queue. I read the book a few years back. If the movie is anything like it, it was very interesting
Elsa, I don’t know how you managed to watch that movie given what’s happened in your area. ((Hug))
I saw it last year. Tilda Swinton is so awesome, watching anything with her is a must for me. This movie was really hard to watch but I was grateful for it. Because it really did a good job showing how the parents of kids like this might be affected. Also possibilities as to how do kids end up doing murder. I still don’t understand and don’t expect a movie to be real truth but this helped to watch. The kid who played the murderer was seriously creepy!
So far no, stigmatization. My son and I both have Scorpio Moons. I’m actually surprised at how many people think I am a good mother, maybe because I am used to carrying the shadow.
Saturn is transiting my 4H in Scorp.This explains so much.I have been upset over the way my teens have been treating me as of late.It’s as if I can’t please them no matter how much I try.This was a big DUH moment for me.
Interesting, I don’t have it, but my kids do. I am the stigmatized mother in their world. Total outcast from from my family and their father’s family… and a whole parade of people where we live. I try to work the power end of it. I am a powerful person and protect them.
Saturn transiting the 4th squaring natal Mercury in Aquarius (already squared my Sun, and by the end will square my Venus- all in the 7th) – yep…I’m getting the energy, thanks for the clarification on where it was coming from.
I agree with this. I have moon conj pluto (9th house, though), and my mother is a very polarizing figure in the part of the world I grew up in. It made for a very isolating experience growing up as many ‘normal’ childhood experiences were not an option for me. She was also extremely powerful and protective, though, and ultimately it benefitted me greatly. I work with it.
I have moon trine Pluto and no experience with this whatsoever. I’m not a mother, however, and never want to be and that’s mainly because after how my mother treated us I never wanted the responsibility of a child. Too much can go wrong, man… :/
Besides growing up in a haunted house, none of my homes have been stigmatized, either. And it wasn’t common knowledge about my childhood home so I don’t think that really counts. 🙂
I seemed to have lucked out with the crappy childhood and mommy-issues end of the moon-Pluto stick. *snort*
Ive lived a version of this: my mother has OCD hoarding, a sub-group of OCD classification. The family home, so to speak, has been stigmatized.
Pluto opposite Moon
Moon in 4th house
Saturn in Scorpio
Busy 8th house
Im just now learning about my plutonian stuff…
I can’t thank you enough Elsa for this snipet. Moon/ Pluto has shown me I was merely an extension of mother’s consciousness, or was I? It is strange how all my ailments have simply vanished since her passing. I understand the legacy but not my own path…yet.
Bunch of 8th stuff sprinkled with Pluto and Saturn.
Years and years ago I rented this from the public library! I guess it’s not so surprising that I snatched it up considering my placements/aspects. I’ve been looking for Moon/Pluto posts, today. My daughter has her moon conjunct Pluto in Capricorn 7th house. My Moon is in 4th house Scorpio conjunct Saturn. I’ve been reading up on Moon in Scorpio (moon/pluto) around the net recently, about relationships with the Mother figure… which was fine until I saw my daughter as a moon/pluto aspect and then my heart skipped a beat. Now, I’m reading around with a different perspective. I wonder, what’s in store? What can I do? I’m really eager to hear from Mother’s with children who have moon/pluto aspects.
My daughter has the same conjunction and I spend a lot of time researching it. She’s still only a baby, but I would like to hear more from Moms as well.
I have Scorpio moon with wide square to pluto in 8th. My mother was an off the charts alcoholic, driven to it by my father. All of us kids suffered from that. I started into therapy at 18 as soon as I could leave the house and continued with it. I tried my best to keep the burden from my kids. My son has a moon/pluto/venus grand trine. My daughter has a “finger of God”-yod on her moon, and a mars trine pluto. Family patterns in charts are very interesting. We can only do our best, the rest is up to the Guy upstairs.
I’ll get the movie!!!! The mystery of my house is getting closer to understand soon enough I hope!
Just found this post. I popped over from your main post tonight on the changes in your life and all the wonderful food you are growing. I have had Saturn in Scorpio transiting the 4th house, and everything you have said is true, true, true. Love the new series of post from you abou the positive effects of your move. Gives me hope about getting out and away from where I am. Wishing you well –
Welcome, Tamzin. 🙂
Hmmm, interesting reading everyones comments. I’m a tad frightened as I have a Scorpio moon in the 1st with pluto conjunct my libra asc. 3 degrees….my mother was very emotionally abusive, controlling and manipulative. I have been in therapy for 2 years working on mommy issues and always said I’d never have children because I wouldn’t want to have my babies go through even half of what I have. However I became pregnant at 37 yrs old and just had my daughter in Nov. 2017. She’s a true blessing and I love her to pieces. I looked at her chart and she’s a Scorp with a Cancer moon conjunct MC opposite Pluto in the 4th, she also has venus conjunct pluto opposite MC. My husband is much more controlling than I but I wonder with this aspect of hers…..is she set out for a controlling, overly protective mama?
Moon conj Pluto & Saturn in the 4th…not fun, not pretty.