Pluto In Capricorn – The Collective Burden

rootI meet with a group each week for discussions on a variety of topics. This is in real life.

It’s an eclectic group from all over the world. We get to hear about Australia from the Australian. People from the city compare notes and share their experience with people who have never lived in a city in their life and vice versa.  The group is always interesting and lively.

Last week, we were talking about right and wrong. Specifically, how does one arrive at what is right for them to do? And what is wrong?

I think it would be hard get a concensus on this in group of any size. But I don’t think that’s a reason not to talk about things like this.

I want to pose a question to the people who read here. It makes sense to start at a point where most would agree so here goes…

Most would agree that our society (however you define that) is burdened at this time. It’s power is blocked. The power of the collective is oppressed (Pluto in Capricorn).

What do you think is the main cause of this? What is CORE problem in your mind…and what is the root of that problem?

If you have a list rather than one idea, that’s fine. Let it rip. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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Pluto In Capricorn – The Collective Burden — 57 Comments

  1. Lack of spirituality. Lack of connection to the creator. Lack of community. We’re just not living close enough to nature. Lack of rituals. Lack of tradition. We are at the apex of what started with the industrial revolution. We can only grow so much in a certain direction before we start to decay.

  2. Not sure this is the core but i am fascinated by your questiin so will throw out a factor.

    I see very few people who are obligated. If you are not obligated to your community or society then building any conversation that will express the power of the group will be thwarted.

    The lack of obligation shows in so many putting elderly in nursing homes instead of the family home, so many saying that the poor person or single mom does not deserve help, that they are freeloaders on the system. There is no longer an obligation to care for family or people in your own community. Being a person who does both and attempting to get others to step up to the plate and help out the lack of obligation shows in the myriad numbers of excuses given for not helping. Boggles the mind.

    • What about the father who does not feel obligated to care for his children?
      What about the mother and the father who do not feel obligated to take precautions when they have sex so as not to create a child they do not want to care for?

      Just elaborating. 🙂

  3. What do you think is the main cause of this? Somewhere down the yellow brick road society and individual people have turned away from taking responsibility for their actions. When young people break the law it is not their fault just listen to the news or various other media they all talk about how this person had such a bad start in life or whatever. The affluent teen who was underage driving drunk killed 4 people and injured like 11 but the Judge let him off with probation because he was affluent and didn’t know any better which is bull shit his parents bought him out of trouble all the time it was not his first incident.
    What is CORE problem in your mind…and what is the root of that problem? People have forgotten what values are.

      • People have been taught less and less since the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s…
        Many factors contributed, seems impossible to undo or restore collectively at this point, all up to the individual now.

  4. Elsa – I find your elaboration humorous but only from a personal standpoint. My mother made it very clear that my obligation was to not get pregnant until I could provide a loving home and good education and healthy food for a child. It was not a discussion of abortion but a discussion of – if you have a child you need to be able to do X, Y, Z. And if you cannot you have no business getting pregnant.

    I would say that I always approached things differently than my friends because of that thought process. ;^) So to hear that from someone in such a different conversation makes me think of my mom and laugh,just a bit… 😀

    Libra noir- I need to think more on what you said but you just made me consider how disconnected our industrial lives have knock on effects. Thanks for the thought!

    • That’s interesting, mud. We told my son, if he thought he might like to have a family, he should start thinking about how he’s going to support them. It’s no fun to have kids and not be able to feed them!

      Also, my husband postulated that our attractive, funny, kind, single neighbor does not have a wife because he can’t afford one. Caring for parent / family burden.

      • It is interesting… one of my friends recently stated that she will only have kids if/when she is able to afford help! That sounded absurd to me… but she is from a different culture and that’s how she was raised, and how her mother operates her family’s household – with the help of nannies. My friend is getting married next month and will probably have kids very soon.

  5. An abundance of individual insecurity, and not enough discernment in determining beneficial Long term values(both as individuals and as a whole) , might be at the core of what is keeping society “blocked” . The root of the problem could come from an individual’s need to have some kind of social “Rank” and act from a place to enhance that rank, rather than participate in the seemingly “unglamorous” behavior of “doing the right thing” .
    As technology allows more and more people to connect at lightning speed, ” the flash in the pan” ideas, will give way to the constant background hum of the larger more consistent ideologies. As social groups organize more effectively, their common goals are elevated… I do think that Pluto in Capricorn and all those other planets that are headed there in the near future are going to make it very difficult for everyone to get away from the things (both good and bad) that are being cemented into place.

  6. I think patriarchy is turning more violent and powerhungry every day..The balance between the male and female must be restored. Compassion and sharing of resources. And taking care of nature. There is a war against nature and against women..

    • I believe you are right about this……which logically flows into a need for balance in general which can only remain blocked when people refuse to listen, communicate and dilberate. Without it, we can have never achieve a modicum of peace.

    • Patriarchy has definitely been on the rise. It’s very saddening to my personal beliefs. Equality between men and women is ridiculed because it’s considered to be about household chores and other trivial things. I thought equality meant that people are equally valuable, not about splitting chores or providing for the family with an equal paycheck. Stay at home moms are just as good a people as the husbands who work and provide for their wives and children.

  7. I’ve experienced blockage (I’m fighting it and constantly seeking new sideroads to get through)and I can see the people with access to the power don’t want to share it but keep it all for themselves – an osbession with gaining more (if possible all) power through the capricorn structures and keeping it there, at the top, centralised for the One of the very few. No will or desire to filter it down. And with it comes a sense of entitlement which then fosters resentment born of frustration. We have to step off to see this is happening around us and break the structure, the false structure. It’s pluto pushing but we don’t have to take it. Power, the desire for power can cause us to break bonds, leave behind the weak, lose our values of solidarity and morality. Pluto is pushing us but we don’t have to become selfish,power hungry goats, Capricorn has higher intentions than this and we have to learn to be true to the Capricorn core need to build solid structures that protect, empower and function for all.

    • I think even people in power have still not had their own challenges to deal with. It may seem like they don’t want to share but that’s just one side of the coin. I definitely agree that the structures that are built need to work for everyone and hopefully we’ll someday see more of that.

  8. One thing that pops into mind, echoing Satori’s post and my own personal blockage… Authenticity. I forgot how to listen to myself, my body, the moment and that affects both me and my family – it’s like we’re (I’m) living outside ourselves. Mindfulness could be an antidote.

    • Maybe even something as simple as lack of physical labor. Or too many options? How can we supercede something if we can just run away?

      • This is an interesting point. Most agree that when things swing out too far, they swing back with a vengeance.
        Is backbreaking labor in our future?

        Right now we have slaves (sweat shops and such) doing all that for us…

  9. We have forgotten our True Selves. That we are divine beings – splinters of infinite light and love, separated from the All-That-Is – experiencing a material plane of existence. A long time ago, we knew this. But we fell asleep, and in our dreaming, lost all sense of who we are. Once we begin to awaken, we will find the path leading home.

    Current aspects:

    Divine Mother –

    Transpluto (Divine Mother) retrogrades from 2 Virgo (‘a liberating ordeal) to 1 Virgo on 13th January (in a portrait, the best of a man’s features and traits are idealised).

    the Dreaming –

    Neptune 7 Pisces (Illuminated by a shaft of light, a large cross lies on rocks surrounded by sea and mist).

    trapped in the material plane –

    Pluto 15 Capricorn (In a hospital, a children’s ward is filled with toys)

  10. Materialism. We have become so materialistic that we completely devalue anything that cannot be seen, or bought and sold. I think Pluto in Capricorn is about realizing that materialism is not enough. All the psychological and emotional suffering is not acknowledged, and it is growing. Humanity is howling for help, for meaning, for understanding – and for a purposeful life. The transformation Pluto will bring is the recognition of the spiritual as the source of the material, and a beginning of a real drive to rebuild our culture so it reflects this truth.

    • Unfortunately research and academy in general are horribly undervalued. It’s only as good as how much it makes money for companies. This is not how society and humankind has evolved in the last few centuries. Now it’s only about material and how much you can make money. Philosophy and analytical thinking is completely disregarded by most, even though it is, and always has been, a tool for a better future.

      I have not seen that Pluto in Capricorn has changed this. I think it has worsened when Pluto moved to Capricorn.

  11. as creatures, we are varied in our ability to care, and we are varied in our interest in knowing what is true; we prize freedom too much (Pluto in capricorn is teaching us a lesson about limits) — too often people turn to spirituality as a recourse to the limits in life, but that is not an answer either — we simply are not able to understand or tolerate the finitude giving in being

  12. as creatures, we are varied in our ability to care, and we are varied in our interest in knowing what is true; we prize freedom too much (Pluto in capricorn is teaching us a lesson about limits) —

  13. We have lost ourselves in pride and material belongings. Uranus/Pluto is here to clean up, for better or worse, and Neptune Square Saturn is here to help us realize that what we imagine about the world is not how it seems initially. Just my 2c.

  14. The fracturing and balkanization of society. Where society was once a collective of people who were of the same mindset, this has now evolved (or devolved, depending on your perspective) into multiple little groups of people, all self-interested, all in conflict, all trying to shriek louder than the next group and bend the others to their will.

  15. I believe that there are levels of spiritual growth and we have a lot of spiritual babies on the planet, which leads to the other problems that have already been listed.

  16. Death of fathers – literal and symbolically. The last of the Second World War heroes, and of Neptune in Sagittarius era music heroes that are positive male role models and godfathers to generations of people. David Bowies last album is called Black Star. He prepared it carefully for release with symbolic graphics. As Saturn ruled, it’s fitting for him to do this, and to send a message, that death is not the end. But then there’s also the devouring Cronos, of business corporates, religious and political patriarchal tyrants, replicating Saturn at his darkest- starving, killing and eating his own children through his own dread and fear. You can see it everywhere, it’s a very dark and sorrowful time. The weather itself feels like a punishment.

  17. From a collective societal perspective, I think the root cause is the financial breakdown (Pluto) of the structure (Saturn) of our societies. Pluto entered Capricorn at the beginning of 2008 which also was the beginning of the Great Recession.

    Every country has suffered as a result of that because we are a global economy.
    If you look back at the chain of events since 2008, you can see the snowball effect from the recession. People lost a big chunk of their retirement savings, they lost their jobs, they were stuck with huge student loans and couldn’t find jobs, people lost their homes and small businesses, pensioners had their benefits cut, countries, like Greece, were not able to fulfill their promises of benefits for retirees. Those were all things everyone believed in and relied on, but one by one, they fell.

    What replaced our old way of life is a more austere (Saturn) existence, except for the very rich. This has led to a permeating pessimism throughout all of our societies. What can you believe in and rely on anymore?

  18. So many of these great responses start with the work “lack.” I -jus- started to write “lack of…” and stopped myself. It strikes me as funny that a burden and a block can be attributed to “not” having something and maybe that is our problem? We are burdened and blocked because we think we don’t have the ingredients we need to move forward and become unburdened. What if the cage door is open and there is no lack? I Skyped with my 92 year old grandmother this week and that woman raised a family with so little. What if absolutely nothing is lacking and I have everything I need right now? Thank you for the great question Elsa – I’m going to chew on this one today.

  19. Greed is at the root (excess, in particular). In Adam Smith’s book “The Money Game” the main character is a psychologist who specializes in treating Wall Street giants. Apparently these men didn’t view money the same way as the rest of us. There is a point where you have so much money you and your family can live comfortably for several lifetimes. For these men, it’s wasn’t enough. What they bought or took from someone else was their identity. They can own a 50 room mansion and only live in one of the rooms. So why buy a mansion that size, right? It’s about, as he says, what others DIDN’T have. They wanted the imagine of someone who can afford something that extravagant. If everyone else had the same huge house the size of the house would lose it’s value. You can’t control other people without having more than they do. The easiest way to have more is to insure that they have less. It was never about money to begin with. Yet for us %99 it IS about money…about what useful items we can buy…and what we’re willing to do for it. That’s the sickness here. Without our participation there would be no millionaires and billionaires. In France when the King’s excesses became extreme, there was an uprising conglomerate of poor people who overthrew and beheaded him. What do you do with 400 to 500 kings? How do you reach these men? If one person, or even a small group, speaks out against them…it’s like a fun game where they get to identify with pitting themselves against an enemy. They get to strategize and conquer their opponent and all the glory that goes along with that drama. It’s a game of wits. They’re seeking a worthy opponent because they’re bored to tears with being on top. Otherwise, why not not share? During the industrial revolution we formed unions. The poor became a mass. Corporations are starving out unions by moving to right-to-work states or threatening to move overseas, where it’s cheaper. Unions are being broken up. They’re removing the only real opponent they’ve had in a hundred years. But it’s sneakier now because we have global millionaires. Even if one is overthrown they are keeping company with 400-500 others who could easily join the cause in order to keep the distribution of power in place. With the population growing exponentially the size of unskilled labor pools are getting larger and larger…meaning lower and lower wages. The options are pretty grim. If we were to interfere with the most positive option we can attempt to control population sizes. This automatically increases the value of each individual in the labor pool. If we are not opting for war to increase the death rate than we would have to focus on the opposite end: birth rates and the idea of birth control methods. I feel this is the most humane option since war and other means of death is inhumane. If we choose to ignore the problem, than climate change and police states will make that decision for us. If we attempt to riot against the ruling class they simply will give salaries to militant personnel to control us. We’e not really in a position to win this way due to the size and diversification of the ruling class (again, the 400 to 500 kings). Dictators have played this game over and over again throughout history. They’ve mastered the game and removed the anomalies. As Einstein said “we cannot solve a problem using the same kind of thinking that created the problem.” The only reason a dictator dies out is the same reason a predator dies out…it’s prey dies off and they starve. There really is no other relevant solution to this problem other than self regulation. The difference between a bacteria and a virus is the bacteria will stop growing when it reaches the walls of its container. This is why the host is not killed by a bacteria. A virus will continue to grow until it kills its host. If we don’t self regulate we will drive this runaway train right into the mountain and suffer the fate of viral host.

  20. The core of the problem: In the USA, there is a great deal of hatred and disdain for others. Anyone whom you might disagree with, or who is different. “I” am right, “they” are all misguided and are ruining the country! It happens on all sides. We are every man for himself, tear everyone else down who isn’t already there, especially if you view them as the “problem.” They are not the problem.

    Hopefully we can remember that we are all in this together, no matter what the media and politicians might tell us. Working together would help to unburden us so very much. It would unleash an incredible abundance of power for the collective.

  21. I think there are a number of directions to go with this question, but I’ll go ahead and say what I think is underneath and at the heart of many possible answers: if the earth were a glass full of water, and the water represented all the available oil within the earth, the glass at this time is about half-empty (or half-full, for the optimists).

    I think this is a major driving factor behind the actions of nations, behind economies, behind politics, influencing ecosystems and cultures across the world. I think it is such a colossal idea to deal with for most that it is utterly ignored in daily life. If it is acknowledged, we often either try to say that someone will inevitably find a replacement that will allow the world to keep on going the way it is without us having to really change our ways of life, or else we become so overwhelmed with the idea that we feel the world will surely collapse into oblivion soon. Really, it’s just gonna get tougher in general for most people as this thing crunches down more and more. It doesn’t mean the world will end, it just means the shit is starting to hit the fan, and ignoring that means you make matters worse instead of learning to grapple with the real world.

    I think that’s our burden now, THE big burden: living in a world whose infrastructure is almost completely built on and dependent upon something finite, as that finite resource begins to show it’s first obvious signs of shortage. It’s an interesting time to be alive 🙂

  22. Forgive me, my comment may be a bit confusing to read. Newt Gingrich when he was running for president wanted anyone who was caught with as much as a joint of marijuana to be jailed for a felony. Mitt Romney infamously said “Corporations are People too.” Mitch McConnell only wanted to perform a job of unseating a president who was elected by the citizens he is sworn to represent. In other words, ordinary citizens are viewed as the enemy by those in power. I think we as a nation are basically considered unimportant and unworthy of representation. Mega churches receive a kings ransom are tax exempt and allowed to dictate influence in government decisions. There is no tolerance for anyone who is not considered worthy. Too much intolerance and the NRA has gleefully encouraged paranoia in order to raise gun sales and promote their lobbying agenda. I also think lobbying should be illegal. In my opinion, lobbyists are given favor over the rights of private citizens and private lobby agendas are upheld for corporate interests and corporate welfare. Even the IRS does not wish to abide by sensible constraints. It is more cost effective to arrest and jail someone than provide them with meaningful job training and access to gainful employment. Too much private lobby and corporate attention, at the expense of the individual rights of a citizenry.

    What ends up happening, when threatened, humans will always blame the underdog. Anyone who is perceived as different is perceived as a threat, instead of the real threat. Sadly, it is human nature to do so. It is also human nature to prey upon the weak and the vulnerable.

  23. thats not for you, like i said she can see me writing right now. so she saw everthing i wrote yesterday already, if i post this now she’ll probaby delete it, like i said she knows

  24. It’s the Me Test, I think.

    Many people, not all, are in their own little silos, and are ruthless about their own lives, wants, even at the expense of others. Things outside their silo don’t register. Causing harm, even emotionally to lives, doesn’t matter. It’s all about the silo and their own world. If it works for them, as they see it, it’s right.

    A couple of friends and coworkers in their 20s have shared some recent dating experiences. Male and female, kind, attractive, intelligent people, they are now sort of retreating from dating after being treated as if they are subhuman, dispensable, laughable little sub-beings, by people who calmly said, in essence, “But this is how i do things, for what I want, there are things I need/want, you fit into what I want.” They all walked away from these types, only to be told they were being absurd for minding various creepy, cold, manipulative behavior patterns. They should understand their place on his/her — the Creep’s — scale. If they are hurt, used or left in a hole, “Haha, be cool! This is just how I live, ok, get used to it! Stop acting like Life is a big deal, get real — look at my house/car/devices/vacations!”

    I am paraphrasing and condensing, but it is startling. Almost uniform. Many are apparently making up their rules for what is right and what is wrong too: the Me test. A friend it is almost like there are going to be two kinds of people soon, and the ruthless Me types are calling the shots everywhere.

    So many people who talked to me about David Bowie’s death said, he was like the last light, now the world seems bleaker, darker, scarier colder….. I found that interesting too.

  25. I think we lack direct human connection in a world where being Facebook friends and viewing the selection one choses to post to create the edited version of themselves they want people to see has taken a real toll on human ro human connection, communication and compassion for one another and at the same time breeds the feelings of isolation and lonliness in the masses whom feel no one really knows them or wouldn’t like them if they did. You get so much more from human to human interaction even with no words spoken than any other form of commuication.

  26. Lack of point of view that is not your own. Black and white all over the place. Male versus female. Your culture versus other peoples’. Your opinion, religion, moral, political standing versus other peoples’.

    In Europe, I see nationalism rising just like it did between 1st and 2nd WW. Pluto squared Uranus back then, as it did recently.

    Lack of understanding and love towards people who are not the same as you. This time though it’s not Jews, it’s generally everyone else who is not you. Not only haters, but also people who _think_ they’re tolerant. Everybody hates each other if they’re not of the same mindset.

  27. Lack of values, morals and empathy. Too much emphasis on self; too little emphasis on lending an ear or a hand to our fellow humans. Lack of compassion. Lack of respect and caring for the earth.

    • Vicki, thanks for commenting on this thread again. I had to re-read the original question that Elsa Posted. I had this long seen out answer about value and time, etc…

      But truly, (how I see it) Society may be blocked, because the organization of values and morals needs to happen on an internal level, and waaayy down in our cores. Work is being done, but all we can see is the scaffolding. Things might be moving but at “lava flow” depths and speed.

  28. Well, the answer to this question is simple – two words, Hard Work. That’s what Capricorn is all about. It may not explain the blocking part, but it is certainly the means to getting through it. When the going gets tough, the tough has to get going.

  29. The trends in the youth also tend to pick up on how to deal with the Pluto transit at hands. What is the Plutonian culture these days? Not getting carried away, minimalism, inexpensive hobbies etc. A lot of people just staring at their cell phones though.

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