Pluto In Capricorn – Extreme Judgement Of Parents Redux (Dumbing Down)

dumbing downI had some other thoughts after publishing yesterday’s post, Pluto In Capricorn – Extreme Judgement Of Rotten, Horrible, Disgusting Parents…

First, I think that people who do this to their parent(s) will do it to you, too. But why?

I think this phenomena is a direct result of the dumbing down of out society. People can either no longer deal with complex topics, or they simply don’t want to.

This person is good / this person is a bad. Keeps it simple, right?

In reality, it keep you simple.  She’s a bitch. He’s an asshole. She’s a Democrat. He’s a Republican.  She’s an astrologer. He’s rich.

How can this possibly say it all? How does it say anything?

When I was a kid, when someone called you a name, you were supposed to answer, “I know I am, but what are you?”

I miss that kind of thinking and that kind of teaching.

Pee-Wee Herman did a brilliant job with this…backwards.

It may not be popular to say, but you’ve got to be lazy and/or simple-minded to reduce your parents, in the way I described in the original post.  And it’s so obviously, affecting.

Men who hate their mothers, do not tend to make good husbands.

Either do people who write off a parent’s care and support of them, over many years, as if it’s meaningless.

If a woman cannot resolve her anger towards her mother, what’s that mean? That she can’t grow up? That she doesn’t want to?

There’s a song I like, Angel From Montgomery. It’s written by John Prine, who performs it, live, with Bonnie Raitt…

It’s the last line that applies.

“…How the hell can a person go to work in the morning
And come home in the evening and have nothing to say.”

I was a teenager, the first time I heard this song. I thought that was a wonderful question, and I still do.

How can a person ignore the complexity of their parent(s), or the parents of others, during their younger years?

Are you guilty of simplifying things to the point of stupidity?

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Pluto In Capricorn – Extreme Judgement Of Parents Redux (Dumbing Down) — 27 Comments

  1. Stepson grew up surrounded by people like that. I can’t recall one deep conversation out of those people in all the time I was around them. Conversations mainly consisted of horrible jokes, veiled insults, or telling the same stories from 30 years ago at every holiday dinner…

    His chart is complex, but his living it isn’t, if that makes any sense.

  2. Either do people who write off a parent’s care and support of them, over many years, as if it’s meaningless.

    Stepson wrote off Big Cap, and look where he is. He parties away like tomorrow is his last day on the planet. No one ever stays with him for long, because they find out he’s needy, dependent and won’t pay his way.

    Needless to say, I don’t know who he is any more. I amputated him, and sadly, he’s proving that I made the right decision. Saturn in Scorpio transiting my 7th.

  3. Men who hate their mothers, do not tend to make good husbands. (A truer statement has not been made.)The man doesn’t have to be a mama’s boy that doesn’t work out well either but he must have respect and care for his mother to be a decent husband. Helps to have a good fatherly example as well, from a man that is respectful towards his mother. (A difficult thing to have when parents are in the splitting up process. Neither parent is a shining example at that point)

    Either do people who write off a parent’s care and support of them, over many years, as if it’s meaningless. (In defense of the children some parents are not worthy should never have been parents because they are terrible parents) That is not the Majority of the parents out there however most of us do the best we can and that is what our parents did for us.

    If a woman cannot resolve her anger towards her mother, what’s that mean? That she can’t grow up? That she doesn’t want to? (Again some mothers should never have been mothers at all. They are not nurturing whatsoever that said I do believe everyone has to come to terms with the hand they were delt. If you survived to adulthood then you did good. No body and I do mean no body has an easy time growing up regardless of how much money your parents have or how little they have. Growing up is very difficult none of us come with instructions, or we do but that doesn’t mean our parents know how to read those instructions. My parents were Capricorns both of them they were work alcoholics my mothers mother who really didn’t like me took care of us. It was tough but we all survived. My parents worked 16 to 18 hours a day they thought they had everything covered. I love my parents it was an honor to be their care giver till they passed they are my hero’s.

  4. Too funny. My parents are gone going from few to several years now. I tried to go back and type cast them since reading you yesterday, but I got to know them so well I couldn’t really word them. There is a deep inner essence that I can relate to, but not sure what that is. Tis a mystery.

    However, I did have this big obstacle in my life that I had to deal with after my mother died. It kept going back to her. It was something about her that I was rebelling against that was holding me back. I’m still working to get up to speed on that issue. Or not. I don’t focus on it, but sometimes it comes up.

  5. I was born to parents who loved children and to a father who enjoyed having two daughters. He died when I was 13 and my sister 9 and that event has coloured my life. As an adult I have learned to recognise that, despite this loss, I was very blessed. I have never questioned whether I was loved, never needed to examine it – it was a given. My failings and faults as an adult (Ok, I have a few) are my own making. I hear so many people, well past middle- age rant on about their parents. There comes a time when one has to take responsibility for oneself and also see parents as the flawed humans we all are. In my life and in my work I’ve seen people who have been dealt a rotten hand in childhood, manage to recover and go on to lead productive and loving lives. Somewhere, someone has shone a light for them and made them feel worthwhile and lit them out through the tunnel. Parenting comes in many forms and I think is often completed by someone other than the person who began it.

    • For starters, parents no longer present a united front. The degrade each other, competing by putting the other parent down.

      • I believe our society is breaking down. There is no more emphasis placed upon values, truths, beliefs – it is all about how much money you have, what you own, what you drive, where you live – your address. It is not about who you are as a person. The value that your life has, and what you can give back to another. This is infecting our children, and the world. Teachers – one of our children’s safe havens – are being ripped apart now and it is all about money. I don’t know the answer – I just know the question – how can we be the change that is needed in the world ?

        • I personally, don’t know anyone who does not got their “boots on the ground”, trying to undo damage, and prevent further losses. Honestly, I do not know a single soul, not trying to turn things around, teach values, set an example, better themselves, improve life for themselves and those around them, etc.

          If you all you see is degradation, you might want to change your routine(s).

          • Another perspective; spirits come here not just to bring more light IN but some also want to ‘test their metal’. This is why it is not unheard of for a person of light to be born into a dark family. Could be you came in to take a lot on.

  6. “Peewee, listen to reason!”
    Peewee: “Shhh, I’m listening to reason.” HAH!

    Yes I see this simplifying and feel it in myself too. As if it’s just too much effort to hold back the anger and grief anymore about all the dumbness that’s happening. I feel squeezed in every direction; I just don’t feel I have space to be as tolerant. But in the process, holding understanding of the complexity of it all gets lost; I become part of the same reactive dumbness.

    I like what you’ve said about the complexity of parenting. Yes, my parents loved me even though they didn’t really get me, even though I didn’t feel I got what I needed, for a long time. I got what I got, there were some good things in there. I think some forget or don’t even think, or can’t think about what kind of commitment that is. To just keep turning up lovingly every day for a child you don’t really get and who pushes you away all the time and who is hard work. To just keep doing that year after year. It’s not terribly rewarding in the short or even medium term.

    Adore that song.

  7. There used to be a concept called, “the good enough parent”. If you parent is “good enough”, then that’s good enough – move on!

    We should bring this kind of thinking back. There is just sooooo many people who have it soooo much worse then people who spend their lives complaining.

    We over-emphasize, “compassion” and degrade anyone who opts to not be a victim and fight their way out of a pit.

    Were your parents really THAT bad? Were you partner’s parents THAT bad? Or are they just not you / from a different generation, perhaps depressed or in many cases, simply HUMAN?

    It’s one hell of a pole to get stuck on. That’s what I am saying. It’s possible to spend your whole life bitching about your mother/father or both. What might you do instead?

    Freedom from this kind of thing, exists. If you doubt this, read my book, and then come debate me about it! 🙂

    • Yes the ‘good enough’ concept is tremendously freeing. There’s a haranguing in the cultural discourse for parents to be perfect, and pretty crushing opprobrium if they aren’t or if they dare to express the view that X isn’t the be-all and end-all. Such as, you know, if a young mother can’t breastfeed and goes onto formula. It’s actually not the end of her child’s future health and happiness, people. Perfection is such a tyranny and hey, it’s actually impossible. It’s undesirable! It’s an illusion, it distracts us from ourselves. From accepting we all f**k up, and yes it hurts. It’s pretty freeing to accept this humbling human reality.

      • “There is just sooooo many people who have it soooo much worse then people who spend their lives complaining.”
        Thanks Elsa 🙂

        “Perfection is such a tyranny and hey, it’s actually impossible. It’s undesirable! It’s an illusion, it distracts us from ourselves. From accepting we all f**k up, and yes it hurts. It’s pretty freeing to accept this humbling human reality”
        Thanks arachne 🙂

    • Elsa, you should give stepson an earful! Not only is he stuck in the past, it’s a past that never existed!

      He’s a perpetual victim, propped up by his enablers…and despite all that, sinking fast…

  8. I think there are many people who are never satisfied. Nothing / no one is ever enough. There bodies aren’t good enough either – got to get some fake boobs! And then put people who don’t get fake boobs, or feel they need them, down.

    One of the most important things you can teach your kids is to be satisfied….with something. And if they really don’t like their station, then they can use that as motivation to change it…which is their job by the way.

    I did not like my station, when I was a kid, that’s for sure. But I never saw it as anyone’s problem but my own.

    I guess it’s card playing. You have certain cards you’re dealt. Play those bastards, whining is not only not allowed, it’s ridiculous.

    I am sorry! I will calm down once Mars moves along. Right now, I just want to say these things and so I am. 🙂

      • Can I also say, I think there is a lot of displaced grief in this blaming of others we’re talking about here. Grief about one’s own losses, as a child or whatever. I don’t think integrating it can be hurried but ultimately it’s very freeing and grounding if it can be brought to consciousness and integrated. Owning it, I mean.

        • Agree! Public school teacher here – Prior to Pluto in Capricorn, the really bad parents I ran across were few & far between. Now, they are tragically common. It’s a huge increase. More free & easy access to mental health services!

  9. Reading yesterdays post on this topic I was a bit taken aback because less than an hour previous, on my drive home from work, I ached to laugh with my Mother who had passed away in 1998. I grew up very poor, youngest of 12 children, Father passed away leaving my mother to raise the last 6 of us. On a side note 4 of her sons were in Viet Nam at the time. My parents were not perfect and perhaps in giving me that they gave me the best of all…which is the ache of a missed shared laughter.

  10. What if someone’s method of dealing with the hand they were dealt is to talk about it, in counselling or therapy, or both, or with a trusted friend? My job is to gain enough understanding to reach a point where I can identify toxic people before they get a foothold in my life. I was raised to not have boundaries or to say “no”, and *not* working on this would mean more of the same.

    Society really condemns those who speak out about bad parenting when there are news stories every single day about truly awful parents. FWIW, the only person I’ve ever come down on harshly has been my father, for the choices he made. My mother was “good enough”. I don’t go around talking about people in a negative way.

  11. This is a great topic. My parents were thoughtful and often selfless providers, but had no understanding of their own emotions or their kids’. Feelings were stifled until they exploded. Like you say Elsa, it’s complicated – way too much so for a message board. I love my parents and we have come a long way, but my relationship with my siblings is nonexistent. It bothers me, but not enough to compromise my freedom to be myself just so that I am accepted by my family.

  12. I think you’re right about society. See how quickly people become ENRAGED if you mention you don’t care for dogs, or that the videos of animals being skinned alive are staged (http://topcatsroar.wordpress.com/2013/10/19/animal-welfare-v-animal-rights-skinned-alive-is-a-myth/ AND or that PIT BULLS are dangerous dogs (http://17barks.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/dog-attack-report-by-breed-march-2014.html?showComment=1402342427361#c7398074292009116332). As for parents; not sure what the story is with that but some parents really ARE that bad. My Father tried to kill me via shotgun when I was 18. I suffered three years of PTSD from that.

  13. Yes I am! Yes! Yes! Yes!

    I think I have made an “assessment” of a person but I am really just serving my pride and need to control. It is dehumanising for the person and for me. How can I be fully human if I don’t try to see other people as fully human?!?

    Thank you for this post 🙂

  14. What if a man had a horrible mother? A phony of a woman who was abusive and preferred leaving him for days on end with strangers so she could party than to step up and offer her small boy a loving household? My man is no fan of his mother, and with reason. He’s a wonderful man and we’ve been together for 4 years.

  15. If you get beaten up by a parent and told horrific horrid things what they will do to you it does make it difficult. If they did things like that now you’d be taken away from your parent.

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