Pluto in Capricorn – Do People Change?

spy secret lives of othersI am watching a movie, The Lives Of Others. It’s  disturbing from the first frame. I am glad to take this break!

Yesterday the soldier and I were discussing this piece of news: Interrogator: Invasion Surprised Saddam”.

FBI agent, George Piro claims Hussein confided in him after being groomed for 7 months. Apparently this guy was the only person allowed to supply Hussein with toiletries and so forth. He said he’d won his trust. I laughed when I read this.

I asked my husband for his take. We both agreed, Hussein is a psychopath. You don’t get anything out of one of those in seven months, seven years… or seventy years for that matter. Don’t know if you agree with that nut in this movie, there is an artist, a playwright named Dreyman, and a jaded member of the secret police, East Berlin, 1984 who is planning to spy on him. This is from a conversation between the two men at a party, before the surveillance begins:

“That’s what we all love about your plays. Your belief that people can change. Dreyman, no matter how often you say it in your plays, people do not change!”

Do people change?

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Pluto in Capricorn – Do People Change? — 22 Comments

  1. I picked “can’t decide” but I think the truth is closer to no. I think sometimes people become more who they were all along. They unfold if they were holding parts of themselves in for whatever reason. But the essential being probably stays the same in almost 100% of people.

  2. Indeed, they do. They change all the time. They change in increments, and in big leaps, but they always change. They say you can never step into the same river twice. I think people are a lot like rivers: always flowing, affecting and being affected by their environment. The elements that make us up change and even though we are known as the same person…we are different from before.

    Perhaps Dreyman knows something after all, that nobody ever stays the same!

  3. I happen to believe, as what transpires in the movie, that every human is gifted with a heart, no matter how hardened or dormant or walled-up it might be. If that heart is touched in some powerful way, the ego or mind can’t help but to surrender at least temporarily; that’s the doorway to profound changes within. Whether one chooses to stay open or not is another matter, but I think the potential is always there.

  4. I most definitely believe people can change.
    But I had to see myself change to realize that it’s possible. Or else I’d be skeptical.

  5. Many of us change to some degree. Depends on our life experiences and how we progress spiritually but the basic of our traits will be always within us. People like Saddam don’t change, maybe they change to worse. Life is too good to them.

  6. I’ve had the great fortune of witnessing a parent go through huge, huge, huge changes. I’m fortunate for this because it gives me courage to continue my own transformation.

    I loved that movie. It moooooved me, man. Elsa, I suspect your relationship with movies is like mine with music.

  7. Some people can change more than others. Even when people do change they may be only thinking-doing and feeling differently within the same old character or script in life. That is, changing within to change what is affecting them from without.

    k

  8. I’ve changed tremendously over my almost 60 years, so yes, people change. I don’t think you can make someone else change. And it’s not easy to force yourself to change, either. But life itself consists of constant growth and lessons to be learned. If you don’t grow and change, I think the universe keeps tossing those lessons at you in stronger and stronger form until you do. If you don’t think people change, just imagine meeting yourself 20 years ago (unless you’re very young, of course) and think how very different you are today. I guess the difference is that the change I’m talking about can’t easily be forced – it’s more of a growth process, but nonetheless, it IS change.

    I like to consider myself a work in progress….

  9. I checked “yes” but I feel sometimes what we see as change is becoming more who we truly are. In other words, the layers are peeled back to reveal the essence. Pluto transits by conjunction, square and opposition to the Sun, Moon & ASC seem particularly effective at bringing this about. Painful but effective!

    Hi Marley!! =waves=

  10. I think can change some things…but in essence the stay the same…for instance, being mean to people is bad and hurts people so the person decides to stops being mean…I think it depends on if being mean works the person, if so continues, if not the person makes a change…

  11. I still believe that people can change, and do. Although I guess with that there’s a whole spectrum of what constitutes change – e.g. is change a 180 degree shift? a 20 degree shift to previous attitudes?

    The Lives Of Others is one of my favourite movies. My husband considers it depressing, while to me it’s a beautiful uplifting story about change and redemption. There’s plenty of elements of both in any case.

  12. I voted that people can change, then I remembered “Is a Reprobate Always a Reprobate?” where I said people don’t change.

    Libra, maan! 😀

    I think a person has to want to change, and most people just don’t want to make that much effort. There! Is that synthesized enough? 😛

  13. I’ve got strong Libra but I can stand up here and proclaim a strong, definite “Yes they can and do!” 🙂

  14. There’s plenty I could say, but I’m too tired (up all last night…).

    I believe people can change but I voted no! I don’t *think* that’s Libra… I think it’s a semantic distinction.

    We can change our behaviour, our beliefs, our circumstances, our expectations, our way of relating to other people, and so forth. Can we change our fundamental core? I don’t think so.

    If we believe that can change, why are we studying and trusting in astrology?

  15. I agree with @BP, that we can’t change the core of us, though some habits/expectations/beliefs change.
    I look at it this way: if i was born with a particular soul, can i really fundamentally change? Can one’s soul change? It can get wounded/shattered, but it stays. Yes you learn life lessons and change as a result, but fundamentally, your soul stays with you.

  16. We are constantly changing, we aren’t the same over the years, months even days, as everything in the world. However, we are trained to think we are/should be one, unique and perfectly finished. It is not “productive” someone who doubts or change his point of view often. That can’t be controlled.

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