Ana asks on Love Tips – 1/2 A Chance
“What qualifies as an authentic deal-breaker Elsa? Where do you draw the line?”
Ana, I can’t tell if you are asking a general question or you want to know what breaks a deal for me but in whichever case this judgment is entirely up to the person involved.
For example, I’d have likely cut the rope on Vid’s friend if I were in his position. I just can’t imagine approaching my friend in the school yard to be shoved off with what would feel like the whole school watching, time and time again. I just does not seem I’d be able to handle that much (public) rejection but I can’t say for sure because I don’t know how Vid feels when he is with his friend. In other words some of these things are intangible.
As an example of that, not many people would stay on the phone, or the email or the chat with a yelling man offloading his 16 year career in Special Forces with force he doesn’t even know he wields. Never mind his many rants about killing people, however I knew the man. And I knew him WELL. And I knew his value even if he was completely and utterly blowing me off the planet with energy he had contained for 20 years in the near term. I could feel him. So this is an example where you’ve got a clear deal-breaker that does not break a deal.
I wrote awhile back how I lost a lot of friends during Pluto’s transit of my 11th house. Most of them I would not want back but some of them have so much credit with me, if they were to surface at any time for any reason, I would bond with them again in 2 seconds even in cases where I was dumped HARD.
In other cases… well there is less credit and if you knock on my door again I’ll be wondering why and probably say that too. “What are you doing here after..?” I would be seriously curious, see?
So I don’t know what the answer is here but I will be more specific the point I was trying to make. I have been saying over and over that I am seeing more and more people who would like to heal their relationship problems, most likely courtesy Pluto’s (upcoming) transit through Capricorn so I am trying to put these things out here that mess people up as I discover them or see them everywhere I look. And one of the things I see is people pull the trigger way too soon.
I guess it is a matter of gaining some control of yourself and your psychology and while this is my own issue, I think it belongs to the collective as well. Fact is we are all “works in progress” as they say and if you’ve got someone who is not a henius bitch or bastard, you might want to try to hold on to them.
I had a gal befriend me awhile back. For some reason I trusted her right away. I just liked a whole lot and I wound up confiding in her around my daughter one afternoon when in a lot of pain. She was pretty Aquarian and I guess I got too intense for her because I never heard from her again… for about 4 months.
4 months later she sent me an e-card and I just couldn’t believe it. I guess she reads my blog still because it seemed the card was in response to something I had written although I didn’t ask. But here’s the point:
I really think that gal pulled the plug in error. I really liked her and would have been her friend for life. I make a pretty good friend, it must be obvious, so this is what I am talking about.
Make sure what you discard is actually discardable because you throw things out for years and years because the thing (which is a human being) didn’t meet your standard for a day and guess what you’re going to wind up with?
Pluto in Capricorn asks you be careful what you flush
“we are all ‘works in progress’” Yes.
“…some of them have so much credit with me, if they were to surface at any time for any reason, I would bond with them again in 2 seconds even in cases where I was dumped HARD.”
I’m glad you feel this way, because I do too. I always felt uncomfortable about this, because it IS intangible, but it is true no less. We bond with some people much more intensely than others and there is lots of credit there, it just runs deep. Thanks Elsa
There is some good avice in your words Elsa. For whatever reason different people handle their friendships differently. I know one Capricorn woman who maintains her friendships right back to primary school days. I imagine this process is the her ethics and values about friends. In different scenarios, some people don’t keep friends that have wronged them. They make exacting cuts to eradictae them. Thats the way they might deal with hurts and slights in relationships. I guess if those friends steal and cheat, they don’t deserve to be on your friends list. My Capricorn friend found that out from me and I suppose that cut deep with her values, she did need to understand her part in the way our friendship went.
Ps, I am not sure that I enjoy being herded into someone elses idea of friendship “value added” plan. In other words, feel obliged to be a friend on their terms which includes their patience and forgiveness. Perhaps in Vidroids situation being pushed away may relate to his friends relating issues. Being a good friend is commendable on Vid’s behalf indeed. Also, perhaps his friend doesn’t wish to be friends with Vid and but cannot say that yet? The friend is unable to relate on the same level of comittment, loyalty and intimacy as Vidroid?
I think you said about the friends Moon Saturn or something?
Kingsley – the kid wants to be friends with Vidroid. He comes over the minute he wakes up (or invited Vid to his house) and they stay at one house or the the other until dinner time. There has been a new piece of info emerge though… this story is live and unfolding.
A Sun/Saturn person can take a lot, A LOT, and this might have to do with the feeling that we don’t deserve.
I am currently in a situation where I am almost being flushed by a friend for various reasons and misunderstandings, but I am being patient and forgiving because I am convinced that someday the misunderstanding will clear and we will evolve in our relationship, which I may or may not need at the time.
On another note, there was a high school reunion recently and I met many people I hadn’t seen for almost a Saturn cycle, and some impressions we have of one another can fade away. Although people do not fundamentally change, they definitely go through a lot in 20-odd years and they can become more stable/sociable/comfortable with themselves than they were in their unstable high school years
and that was a very interesting reunion.
I just love a bit of reality blogging Elsa
One of the really beautiful things about my trip to Ireland was getting to see my boyfriend John interact with lifelong friends. We stayed in the home of his best friend since they were both 4 years old. There were many many others I met who he had known for his whole life. I think it speaks volumes about a person’s integrity to have friends like that.
It was also fascinating to me to see because I have never stayed in one place long. The concept of hometown is completely alien to me. But that’s a whole other subject. 🙂
Aquarius sun, Gemini Moon
Ugh I wouldn’t be able to tell you where the line is for me. I don’t think I have one. I always feel like people can redeem themselves, but anyway, I’ve never had a friend do something horrible to me.
It actually happens, has happened several times that I will lose contact with someone, and they will reappear years later, and it’s as if contact had not been lost. There is no sense of awkardness.
I am actually trying to get rid of someone in my life who I think will bring a lot of negativity to me and who I think does not genuinely care about me, but I am finding that to be extremely difficult!!!
I wish I had tangible lines of no return drawn.
I like to have friends, but I find sometimes friendships can take a lot of energy. Perhaps the true friendships that actually result in an increase of your energy and a sense of well being a good deal of the time, may be a little harder to find. I am very careful to leave bridges intact.
Oh man, there is this book called ”
Deal Breakers: When Does Mr. Right Become Mr. Not-On-Your-Life?” that is full of hypothetical situations used to determine just how far you would go for a guy you’re into. It has all kind of situations like, you are engaged to marry a man you’ve been in a relationship with for 5 years. He tells you he doesn’t want children. Deal breaker?” I know this particular issue in discussion here is in regards to friendships, but it in essence begs the question of what your tolerance level is. My favorite one in the book involves going to a baseball game with your new boyfriend. When you notice a package of adult diapers in the backseat you make a joke about them. He replies that he “just can’t take a break from the game”. Deal breaker?
I loved your comment Spinner, and have always felt the same. I don’t think I have any clear lines drawn, however I do think (and teach my kids) to pay attention to what kind of energy a friend brings into your life. Do they lift you up, or drag you down? (Of course we have our own part to play, as well)
Elsa, you mentioned something about the collective. I am thinking it is kind of a thing with Society right now… If this happens, you’re out the door. If that happens, you’re history. There’s tons more where you came from. Umm, I guess I mean a lot less patience, understanding, forgiveness… I’m not sure I’m making a judgment, just an observation.
That book sounds very interesting Charlotte. Knowing me though, I would be able to come up for a sound, logical reason of any action a person can take.
Charlotte, that and your name reminds me of Sex and the City. It seems that in every episode, all the characters other than Carrie go through a series of deal breakers. A weird situation happens and Samantha grimaces or Charlotte wonders if she can stay with a man who wants a threesome but screws the other girl instead of her. Or when Carrie decides the man with the upright bass is too ADD. When a man is too weird to take. And that’s it, one awkward moment and then it’s over. Elsa, I feel like a lot of times, you have advised women to call it quits romantically, to cut the chord when it seemed toughest to and talked about how you did it too, asking yourself if it was worth the pain. What have you considered deal breakers in the romantic sense? Or what makes a deal breaker when you judge it in someone elses chart?
Adjusting to having good friends has been hard for me. I get bursts of wanting to do things and serve my friends, then am utterly selfish and unreliable. Recently a friend gone nutty tried to call it quits with me and at the same time accused me of being selfish after my attempts to contact her or cheer her up, of not sacrificing for her. I wondered how much a friend has to cover the ass of another friend, to protect them and be there, if I had tried sufficiently. I couldn’t always be there when she is depressed. I worried that she didn’t have a support system and she didn’t answer when I did try to contact her for a while. Should I have babysat her? Who knows? It was somehow ridiculously easy for me to drop her at the same time, she was high maintenance and I had enough. I’m not sure, the boundaries for dropping friends are ridiculously fluid (Gemini).
So I guess the be careful who you flush is timely for me, I wonder if it was worth dropping her so easily, if our friendship was worth keeping being as we would fight so much. I think that wondering if something is worth it is a very Capricorn thing. I don’t know if I’m right.
How topical (for me)! My Aquarian, long-term best friend that I mentioned the other day in a comment; this is about him. He’s sort of on the cusp of Aquarius Capricorn. He has very goat-like feet. I’ve been in the process for the last year and some months of trying to figure out whether I want to dump him (forever?) or not. Turns out there was a moment, 14 months ago, when I felt like he was just piling on (he was), and not really understanding (at all) where I was coming from with regard to a certain family commitment. It reminded me, in my heart, of a time long long ago when he dumped on me very bad. Obviously didn’t understand me. So? Who’s read Kahlil Gibran? I’ll paraphrase: If your friend doesn’t understand you under all circumstances, he (she) will never understand you. – Am I overthinking this? Should I just get over and on with this? It feels like I’m always letting people off the hook.
Oh my gosh Elsa, you hit the nail on the coffin!! Been saying this to myself for decades, although I’ve only seen two.I don’t think everyone can forgive unconditionally,there are some people that are never welcomed back in my life. For those people you have to wonder were they ever that big of a deal to begin with? Probably so, but they erased themselves from my life. What’s so crazy is that they’ve handled a situation wrong, but so many others that are still around have too. And yet they are still around. Hint. There’s a thin line and I just have to start telling people please don’t cross it. I can be very forgiving but only when deserving of.
I’ve been mulling away since yesterday on this ‘What is a deal breaker’ and ‘How much of a chance’. I find it really depends on the person for me, I am inclined to believe I give more credit than I recieve. I tend to be suddenly, brutally, and unexpectedly (to me) cut and when it happens I tend to assume it is my fault (sun sq saturn – what is wrong with me? What’d I do? how’d I fail?).
Despite this there are very few people I’ve ever considered friends who I wouldn’t give at least a second chance. I tend to believe people are good at their core (or at least want to be) and that as a result they probably didn’t set out to hurt me.
This makes me sing,
“Make new friends, but keep the old
One is silver and the other’s gold”
(Girl Scout round)
Maybe Pluto in Capricorn will help me be more sure-footed about “flushing,” actually…. I’ve always held onto everyone well after I probably should have pulled the trigger. See, I can’t even type that without including doubt.
Thanks Michelle! – Yes, it is important to ask ourselves, ‘Do we increase the energy of our friends? Do we give them a boost?’
Monica~ both of your comments seem very harmonious with the associations I make with Aquarius Sun/Gemini Moon. I would make the leap that you’ve successfully assimilated some of your life’s lessons, so congrats!
I certainly value ‘being careful what you flush.’ Although I have been %90 of my life (and have held onto things I should have flushed, often)…the times I have been rash have haunted me to hell and back.
I think it’s because I have Aries Mars opposed Pluto; Aries SN opposed Pluto; Uranus opposed Sun…
I can be incredibly hard on myself when I lose control (Sun square Saturn, Capricorn Moon).
I always feel like I SHOULD be composed and know when to flush.
I’m learning that my ‘I should no better’ attitude is actually I weird sort of egotistical thing I put upon myself.
jeez, can I blame Merc Rx on my ability to type? lol
I don’t think I have any hard and fast rules. All depends.
So far, my truest friends are Sagittariuses. All men. Love those guys. (I’m a cappy girl, aquarius rising). (yes, not a true double cappy 🙁 but it just “stuck”)
My boyfriends alternate between Taurus and Virgo.
I don’t think I’ve ever had anyone serious in my life who is a Leo, a Cancer, a Libra, or an Aries. Hmmm…
The only time I’ve really ever let anyone go – and I tend to fight for the friendship – is if they’re way out of bound (boundaries) and refuse to see it (continually hurting me or making me feel uncomfortable) or they just drain me.
I had one friend years back always subtly put me down. I called her on it THREE TIMES. To this day, she said to someone we both know “I still don’t know what I did.” Ugh.
But I generally try to speak up if I know the relationship is going downhill; and my true friends have listened and we’ve grown together, and the relationship has deepened; other times, people get mad and want to blame their stuff on me . . . and, in that case, I give space and hope for the best.
Oh, and one more thing – could be pluto in cappy – but interestingly, it’s only been very recently that I’m starting to second-guess a few “flushes.” I’ve been fortunate up until now that when I look back, I don’t regret them. I don’t want anyone hurt, but they still feel necessary.
But one or two lately have been haunting me . . . and painfully so. (And in one case, the person is giving me a ‘too late, i’m getting married.’)
kashmiri- I can’t type, but I can dance when they are playing the Mercury Retro A Go Go.
Spinner – there seems to be two of us on this blog – Michele (me) and Michelle (her). LOL
Just so you know who you are addressing :o)
P.S. I’m the Michele (with one L) that is a Scorpio Sun, and am trying to date the younger guy that also has a Scorpio Sun.
I will try again… Good morning Michel with one L. Oh my god thanks for keeping me in line. HaHaHa. Are you open to any creative ideas for a new blog name?
oh dear! lol
Somthing I am learning, life is way to short to hold grudges. Time goes by and someone gets married, or whatever, and whatever it was that you were holding a grudge about ten years latter, or even what the friendship broke up over.
And yeah Jessica i like that one too. Also, Old friends are the best friendds.
I’m laughing and laughing :o)
You bet i’m open to a different one – just was coming up dry so far. I get so busy reading all the great posts, thinking up a “perfect” name (instead of my own perfect name :op) just goes right out of my head….
Let’s see, who can I blame it on?
Michele with one L- I don’t know enough about you to know if these fit. I came up with…Topaz,
Phoenix, truthteller, flamethrower, snapdragon and quetzal. If you have any clues that would be helpful, I am sure I could come up with some more.
Oh my gosh Spinner, did I mention I am lousy at making decisions?!!!
Well, I’m not sure what quetzal means, but thank you very much for all the names. I like them all and am tempted by some, but I really like snapdragon. I guess to put it simply, it resonates with me. Also, as a child, they grew everywhere. We used to pull the heads off and suck the nectar from them. Sort of like pansies – just very familiar and remind you of home.
P.S. don’t pansies always look like they are smiling at you?
Quetzal is a bird in Central America. the bird of paradise, I think. Glad you like snapdragon!! Pansies smile at me all the time, I think they think I am bisexual, which I am not. I do not like the attention, so can understand how females feel with men staring at them all the time.
Hmmm, i’m a little confused Spinner…
I’m trying to follow what you were saying about the pansies, but I haven’t quite figured it out. Are pansies female to you? I just think they always look happy, and like a welcoming committee!!
hahahaha- Snapdragon, Pansies is a british slang name for Gay men. Not there is anything wrong with pansies, it’s just that they seem to like me and I don’t swing in both directions. OK, nobody has used this term in twenty years. I swear I am going to have a t-shirt made with, ‘stop looking at my bum’ printed on the back.
Spinner and Snapdragon: just to add another level to your discussions of flowers – did you know that pansies, violas, johnny-jump-ups (all from the same family) have another name, and it’s “Heart’s Ease,” because the flowers, leaves and stems are used as a heart medicine? You can eat them or you can make a tea from them, and it’s good for your heart. I always think they are a spiritual medicine too, because they just make you smile when you look at them, because they’re smiling at you too with their little happy faces. I love pansies.
And cheer up, Spinner: at least someone’s looking at your bum – when you get to be my age nobody looks at your bum – gay or straight! And what if GIRLS want to look at your bum, then read your t-shirt? Could backfire on you. Smile.
ha ha…thanks for the flower tips peppermint, I love that kind of knowledge.
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it.
Oh for crying out loud Spinner – of course I know that, LOL, I just didn’t think of it, guess I had flowers on the brain!
Btw, at 41, I finally have all the guys staring at me (Scorpio sun and Scorpio in Venus – guess there’s something to it, eh?!!), and I LOVE the attention. Feels wonderful!
Thanks for the info Peppermint (I am definitely a who?what?where?how?why?when? kind of a girl). I’ve read about Hearts Ease, but didn’t realize it was those flowers. Love them all!
There are so many places that I can go with these comments! Thanks for the comments peppermint and the herbal lore, I am generally fairly lighthearted, but I will try some pansie tea sometime. Snapdragon- It is great that you are getting the attention that you deserve! What happened to that young Scorpio Sun you were chasing? My Aries Sun and I have just got back from visiting with some friends at the local and she is gearing up…. to paint the downstairs bathroom!
Oh I notice, Spinner, enough to appreciate it, but you see – I’ve got my eye on the prize! I’m still (not very patiently) waiting for the one I want.
If I have the basics correct, he seems to have Venus in Capricorn, Mars in Virgo, and I’m guessing he could be Capricorn Ascending. Whatever, he seems to have exactly what I want.
With my Sun and Venus in Scorpio, and Sun, Mercury, Venus and Neptune in the 8th, I think I am fairly intense. (!) He has said that I am too much, but I do a lot of communicating with him, and he keeps coming back for more. He seems to need time to be alone and process things, so I give him that. Meanwhile, I’m keeping my fingers crossed….
You’re Aries Sun wants to paint the bathroom? I say, “Let her!!!” LOL
Good luck! Definitely! Of course! Never ever stand in the way of an Aries who is determined to get something done!