People Won’t Save You If You’re Drowning

Vintage Sagittarius t-shirt graphcicI have a long time, Sagittarian client, she’s in a hole at this time. She typically upbeat, but she took a one-two punch, recently, from people she cares for deeply.

She’s been down longer than I am comfortable with. I’m used to her bouncing back, so today I decided I’d better take a new tack.  Hard.

She’s trying to get these people who hurt her to care.  They don’t. She’s in the water, flailing all around. They see her there and look away.  It’s ugly, isn’t it?  But it’s true.

“They’ll be back,” I said. “But not as long as you’re in this pool…with the measles,” I said.  She laughed. “Whining,” I added. “They’re not going to come near you because they don’t want to hear you whine, or catch the measles which means you are going to have to get yourself out this mess. Get out of the ditch, back on the road. Once you do and you move along, believe me, they’ll be running to catch up, because the fact is, you can’t be replaced…”

I went on to tell her that when people see a body on the ground, they tend to step on it. There are times you have to find your inner fortitude and get yourself up, get your voice back and your authentic self.

Here is my question: why is it that people who love you, leave you drowning in your pool of measles, and the more you whine and flail, the less they even look your way?

Related


Comments

People Won’t Save You If You’re Drowning — 53 Comments

  1. Wow. Relevant

    I’m not sure, but I think children have the impulse to hurt a weakling. I feel it in myself sometimes.

    Or perhaps the person’s negative emotion is too extreme and feels contagious

  2. I try not to be too cynical – I think sometimes people feel powerless and don’t think they can help. Also if someone is upbeat they inspire you but if they are down they give off the opposite effect and people will wait until the person who is down sorts themselves out. Of course sometimes people are also plain uncaring and selfish but I like to think mostly it’s a just feeling of powerlessness- when someone’s going through an unlucky patch instead of being consoling they just run out of patience if there’s nothing they can do.

    • Yes I see – that true….but if it was me, and i guess depending on the situation I’d like to think I wouldn’t be sticking around giving them a second chance.

  3. I’ve found it’s possibly because they are used to the drowning measles patient play the role of the strong rock and they don’t know themselves how to switch roles when needed – makes them horribly uncomfortable, and to have their perception of the drowning one challenged twists that discomfort into disgust. Or sometimes the person drowning with measles plays the victim too often and may have used up all the compassion cards with his/her friends.

    • I agree with you too. But in this case, this gal is not the perennial victim. She’s usually up on her feet within a day or two, regardless of how she’s hit. I mean, I’ve seen her lose $80K, that she worked for and be over it in a half hour. That’s why I’m concerned.

      I would expect they think she’ll pull up because she always does…to help would require them to admit they wronged her…which…well they have other priorities.

      On her end, she wants them to admit this but I told her it ain’t happenin’ so either GTFU or live in the measles pond until you die…

      She has Scorpio, so I can say that. Really, she has everything so this is my point – do now wait on the calvary that’s not coming!

      • There’s always more than one side to the story, and you only know hers. I’m not saying that she hasn’t been wronged, but people have their reasons for doing something, valid or not. If anything, from what you describe, her relationship with these people, no matter how deeply she cares for them, is not as strong as perhaps she’d like. It’s not easy to find this out, but important to know, don’t you think? I agree with you, brush yourself off, move on and go find the lovely people who can be caring when you need it.

        • I think I am right. I have been working with this woman, extensively for six years. You get to know a person and their circle.

          But I get your point. 🙂

          • ….you are right. thank you elsa. this helped- you described what is happening to me as well now- and I have a jupiter sun!… sound advice. much appreciated:-)

      • I would expect they think she’ll pull up because she always does…to help would require them to admit they wronged her…which…well they have other priorities.

        Oh. They want her to drown. Well, OK then. I thought you were talking about people whom she had split with for other reasons not wanting to help. I’ve seen a ton of that too.

        max
        [”I hope you die in a fire!’ ‘Help! I’m dying in a fire!’ ‘Oh, well, my wish has come true.”]

        • Actually, I don’t think they want her to drown. They want her to take the kick the teeth without complaining. They want her to be the bigger person, because she usually is. But this kick knocked her back in such a way, she’s complaining.

          sherry, further down, seems to have a pretty good handle on it. What I’m saying is the complaining / not getting up is not working. So she’s either got to get up and more or continue in this vein…which in my mind, will continue to pay no dividend.

          It’s a power struggle in a sense. Though she is really hurt, but also mad as a hornet because she does feel wronged.

          All I am saying is if you’re in a measles pool, yelling for help and no one comes to rescue you, there comes a time when you accept the situation and drag your ass to the edge of the pool, get up and go.

          • They want her to take the kick the teeth without complaining. They want her to be the bigger person, because she usually is.

            They want her to be punished. I was with you there.

            It’s a power struggle in a sense. Though she is really hurt, but also mad as a hornet because she does feel wronged.

            She thinks she’s being unjustly punished. If she felt she was being justly punished she’d beg for forgiveness (which might or might not work). If she feels unjustly punished then I’d be asking someone other than those two for help – because when she gets out, those folks can forget keeping up.

            Whether she gets out on her own or asks for help from someone else, appealing to these guys makes no sense.

            max
            [‘That seems more Sag (‘oh, did that hurt you? Well, anyway…’) than Scorp, but gotta read the whole chart, etc…’]

  4. It’s very gross to my Libra (and to my Neptune 11th house) to say this, but I’ve watched it happen over and over: RARE is the person these days who will support you when you are down and RARER is the person who will refrain from kicking you when you are down.

    oxxo Sadge person.

    • Yes and it’s usually a Scorpio who will stand by you when the whole world turns on you. I wrote about this once but I can’t find the post.

          • Wouldn’t be much use as a human being if you didn’t stand by people when they were in trouble. Of course, I’m pathetic enough to help out people even if I’ve split with them. (Even though my ex- had split and weren’t speaking, if she’d needed help, she’d have gotten it.)

            I don’t see how you can do it any other way.

            max
            [‘All these sunshine soldiers and summer patriots.’]

            • Ditto. And, really, there’s nothing pathetic in this. (Stepping back, and in hindsight, I have to recognize: it’s human, & caring, & the right thing to do.)

              • Poppy: And, really, there’s nothing pathetic in this.

                Well, according to normal people, you’re just supposed to run off. Me, I stick by people who don’t knife me and am otherwise utterly loyal.

                max
                [‘Which is probably not very savvy, but I figure ‘I love you’ should mean something beyond all tomorrow’s parties.’]

  5. I don´t know how many times I have helped people – but they usually don´t have the energy to help me..even if I ask (which I don´t do often). I have a lot of scorpio in my horoscope so I am strong and I have strong ethics..And I honestly do like to help people and animals etc, I think this comes natural. Funny I have noticed if you help an animal – it won´t forget – it will always be there for you.
    I often wonder what´s wrong with humans.

  6. I don’t get it, I honestly don’t. I help people all the time (Sun in Pisces). I wonder if some people have a stronger ‘aura’ or ‘energy’ or whatever, so people don’t help? If not helping people, looking the other way, or kicking someone, is being a human being, then I guess I’m not a human being.

  7. This happened to me recently. A friend (who I’d helped through a rough time) and I had a role reversal and then I was the one in need. Without missing a beat she shut me out and did so pretty brutally. Now I’m fine and she’s back, acting like nothing really happened! We were pretty good friends at the time (or so I thought). Now I’m glad I know the truth. I feel it was the universe revealing her true character at the right time. Now I’m free of one less schmuck. Best of luck to your client. The story isn’t over yet!!

  8. As to why people do this? I thought about it- then I thought, who cares about the petty little motivations of petty little trolls. I don’t want to spend 5 seconds in that space. Onward and upward to better people.

  9. People feel guilty that you hurt thry feel ashamed , they think they can’t help yet they can ; they can say I’m here for you and I think you need to get out of this story.

  10. As a fellow sag I can relate. We bounce back and are everyone’s cheerleaders. It can be exhausting truly. When we do get really down it is very difficult as people do not really know what to do with us and it is distressing. Like, hey, just do for me once what I do for you frequently. That said, she will prob examine her friendships after this and weed out the fairweathers. We don’t really hold grudges but loyalty and trust are paramount. Some may be baffled, others may be identified as vampires of sorts. Of course she will be ok, we do jump up again ready to take on the world with a big smile!

  11. I feel like people are repulsed when you are down and have a slight amount of contempt for you. When you get up and go on with your life then they are ready to come back. I have a lot of empathy but it is not a common trait in people.

      • I agree with this 100%. People are personally shamed of the reminder that such a thing can happen. But, paradoxically, think it will never happen to them. I have said, more than a few times to people, that I am not responsible for everyone’s happiness. Maybe, this Sagittarius has expended vast amounts of energy in the wrong environment, with the wrong people. Sometimes, our empty cup can only be filled by ourselves.

        With Saturn and Mars both in Sagittarius, and RX, I myself feel a little burned-out. The “bounce-back” effect,so synonymous with our sign, is not operating in quite the same way it used to. The paradigm shift is such that our generosity and gregarious ways needs to be funneled to those whom understand our heart and know it is wise not to abuse it. A Sagittarius operating under the most Godly way is a sight to behold!! If you think that Black Holes don’t exist, just treat a Sagittarius badly.

        They will pack up their belongings and go. Leaving you with the vacuum…

  12. They seem afraid of being sucked down with you. Too heavy as a friend once told me. It’s enough to lead one to hermithood! Friendships like these..point?
    Or maybe one becomes a really good friend having gone through such a betrayal. Hard to say.

  13. I get very little sympathy from people because they think I can take more so they don’t think to help. If they are the takers in the relationship, they aren’t able to switch to being givers. They just don’t relate to her that way.
    She has to give up the dream they will change their ways. Maybe she needs to learn to be around better people, actually. For me, even if they came running after me when i recovered- no thanks. Day late and a dollar short. Eff you. May her Scorp serve her well…
    🙂 🙂

  14. I’m not sure why, but what came to my mind while reading this post is that people don’t like superior people – small gestures that make you feel you are looked down upon. It can happen that someone sends this kind of energy around – this is very subtle and can go unnoticed to the average eye. So when this ‘superior’ person lands on the floor people think to themselves: ‘Now you can see what it is like to be down there!’ They don’t help because subconsciously they know this person will get up sooner ore later.
    This is just a FEELING.

    (I’m usually the one that sticks around when people are down – and I make myself scarce when they are up).

  15. maybe what people believe or see, is that this certain individual which happens to be a Sagittarius is very resilient and is strong, so when he/she is down, no one really believes it. they think well it is temporary and it usually is. But it’s nice if people would be there for support through the temporary downfalls. we all need eachother.

  16. Hah! I’ve been going through some intense health problems, and whenever I try and seriously talk about them with my _best_ friends, they don’t say anything. They only ask “what am I supposed to say?” Well how am I supposed to know what you should say. Say whatever you wish as long as you f*cking say something.

    I think they’re too used to me being like a stand-up comedian whenever it comes to my personal issues. Most of the time my issues really are funny, even the heavy ones. 😀 Yes, 12 degrees Sag Sun here, of course.

    • Correcting myself: not necessarily funny issues per se, but I have the ability to make them appear funny.

  17. I don’t buy the general idea of lesser and better people. No matter how much you help or don’t help someone, you might be a marvelous friend to someone else. You might help kittens or whatever even if you don’t know how to help a friend who normally rises like a phoenix or laughs about their woes. I’m not a fan of people categorizing others into good or bad people.

    • I mentioned ‘superior’ people in my comment. In NO way did I mean to speak of better or lesser people. This is my language problem. I really meant something like condescending, patronizing, haughty, etc.

      • Sorry Marina, I didn’t mean you personally. Although your comment might have originally triggered my response. It just made me think about people who think like that.

  18. I have lots of Pluto in my chart. There is NO coming back from that sort of cruelty.

    Drop both of them and don`t look back.

  19. This is here, and while I don’t have any Sag, could be written for me. I have helped in ways and jumped through hoops no other person would. I have even spent money I shouldn’t have to hold these people up. Thousands of dollars. You would call me an idiot if you could see the receipts. I even opened a business and raised their first born while trying to juggle the first years of keeping it going and took the child to work with me. I was way too old to be doing this….I did it out of love. Nothing more.

    Today I am sick. Crickets. And, we haven’t seen the kids. They don’t care if I die. How much more of a sign do I need? And I have 5 planets in Scorpio. You’d think I’d be more angry, but I am not. Deeply hurt beyond forgiveness? Yeah. I am not sure the relationship is reparable beyond this. I cant afford to be bitter and unforgiving right now. I am too sick to use what energy I have on bitterness and games. I have to let it go. This is very painful. As painful as anything I have been through.

    There is nothing I can do. I don’t expect anyone to feel sorry for me. I was really stupid to give and do like I did. I know that I did help. Regardless of what anyone else believes or says, I helped them when no one else would give them the time of day. When they didn’t have two nickels to rub together I worked hard to keep them going. The child didn’t suffer that period of time and that is what matters. She is doing well in school and well all the way around it seems. I don’t know right now…

    Here is what I do know. What you do to another will happen to you. You have no choice but to reap what you sow. You will have to feel everything you do to another. The energy you throw out is important to understand. You may not understand it when you are a teen, twenty-thirty something but eventually it will come back to you and you’ll have to deal with it ….may be at your strongest or weakest point in life. Best to be good to people and have good intentions when you do something that will effect another person.

    I luckily I learned this in my 30’s. What this means is I have had to take some hits and just let it go and move on. When people behave badly it says more about them than you. That is their bag of worms. I wouldn’t want to be them moving forward for anything in the world. This hurts me for them. Why? Because I happen to love them with all my heart …. and there is really nothing I can do about saving them from their selves. 🙁

    • This is why Scorpio and Capricorn types are closed off at times. They can see through selfish people’s cow pies. Their bullshit if I didn’t edit myself.

  20. I’ve been dealing with this for years now. My daughter and I going through some of the worst stuff — facing big challenges and my immediate family stopped talking to me! Her dad turned a blind eye. It’s a wild phenomenon to me that this can even happen.

  21. This makes me sad. My best friend, a Sadge, was diagnosed with triple negative breast cancer many years ago. She was the typical Sadge, always everyone’s cheerleader. But she was deeply hurt because people started avoiding her; people who she’d been there for, just like what Elsa wrote. I was one of the few who just stood there. Clearly, I’d never been in her shoes, so I couldn’t do more than just stand there and be a witness to her journey. She told me often how much she appreciated that. Sometimes people are just too damn selfish to pull away from their own dramas to help you through yours. My best friend died in a year and a half from diagnosis. It was an absolute privilege to go through this with her. I am not, by any means, a selfless person. But I saw the call to duty, and I answered. I worry that people don’t give a rat’s ass these days… they can’t be put out, even while you are sitting there drowning and flailing. It’s not like a Sadge wants to be saved, for gawd’s sake. A Sadge just needs someone to take a turn doing the cheerleading; someone who believes in them and reminds them who they are. Is that so much to ask?

  22. I have 7 Planets in either Scorpio or 8th house. Including Pluto.
    I was nice and naive about men and people in general.
    Then sh*t happened.
    And when I found out my BF during 8 years had cheated on me during our relationship (several times) there was no answer when he sent me an email two months later. Luckily he got the message.

    My Bullsh*t barometer is very sensitive to assholes. Cut them loose and move on. I have no scrupples about it at all.

    I hope your client will use her Scorpio strenght and insight to cut these people loose who hit her so hard. Once you break with Pluto there is simply NO going back. And end is an end and loyalty is like trust: takes time to build up and can be ruined in a second. That’s why it’s so valuable. And that’s why you should never let a person back in who broke your trust and Loyalty.
    So think hard before you break with pluto. Once you go there you can never go back.

  23. I feel for your client. Deeply.

    There’s no more alienating feeling then to be down in the dirt and watch the people you thought cared for you, trample over you, one by one, without looking back.

    Had a Sag moon “friend” who would always checked out of the friendship whenever I was going through something rough (like the death of a family member, for instance). I would reach out to her and she would simply ignore me. No reply. I finally called her on it and her response was “It all just seems so hard…I don’t know what to say. You’re strong. You’ll be okay”. Needless to say, she always expected my unfailing support in times of her own troubles, which were never really comparable in terms of devastation. This “friend” has since been dumped for good.

    I’m wondering if your Sag client was always perceived as “the strong one” by those around her. More often than not, that is why people don’t try to help, especially if they’ve seen you go through a lot. They just expect that you’ll bounce back and be fine. No need to support you.

    I call bullshit. Everyone needs supporting when things go south, “strong” or not. It’s really just a flimsy excuse for not being supportive that people who lack character and compassion like to use.

    There’s nothing lower in my book than kicking someone when they are down, or refusing to help them get back up.

  24. It’s peculiar, and I don’t think anyone gets through life without times of loss, without rain. During those 7 squares that we all endured, so much disappeared–a 30-year career, parents, death of very close friends of many years, life in the city. But this happened to so many people I know, it seems as if everyone went through something like this. I was lucky, people I wouldn’t have expected to come out of the woodwork helped me, although I wasn’t asking. Sometimes the people you would think would be there or people you have helped quite a bit in the past step away, too, although as you say, they tend to reappear if they think your life has stabilized. It is probably a good idea not to take any of it personally but to look in the direction that is helping … it is easier to forgive human failings but focus on what is important to move your life forward.

  25. I’m in the same boat as your client right now, and every comment in here resonated with me. Reading through this brought a lot of clarity into why the offending party may be treating me like this, and comfort knowing that I’m not the only one feeling betrayed by people with a lack of character and empathy. Thanks for sharing.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.