What Does It Mean If Someone Has A Black Heart?

black heartI know there are people out there who know all about this subject. I’m not one of them! This is not a joke or a trick question, I want to understand this phenomena and I don’t even know what it’s called.

I am going to call it a dark heart or a black heart but I don’t know if that is the correct term. I am talking about the kind of person who is just plain nasty. I don’t know if they know they are nasty. I have no insight into this type person but I can describe what they do.

They hunt others. They look for ways to damage other people, cause them problems or denounce them. They may put people down so that they might feel better about themselves but I am not sure.

They appear to be compelled towards this behavior but I’m not sure about that either. I think we all have free will absent of some acute mental illness so a person has to elect to act in this way to some degree but I don’t know the degree. Do they realize they are predator or imagine themselves otherwise?

Typically they have their cronies. These are people they hang with who support their behavior and believe it not I don’t know anyone like this. I know of people like this and I have been targeted by people like this but I have never been friends with them because it’s just impossible.

It’s impossible because I would call them on their behavior instantly. “Why are you such a bitch?” I’d ask and I’d probably ask this on the first day.

I avoid people like this like the plague and they avoid me too, so consequently I know virtually nothing about them and I am hoping someone can help. Here are my specific questions:

If you have a (so-called) black heart, what is like? I imagine it like an addiction where you’ve got to go out and hurt someone, is this right?

If you know someone with a dark heart what can you tell me about them?
Add the astrology if you can…

Skip to follow up – What Can We Learn From The Anti-Bitch


What Does It Mean If Someone Has A Black Heart? — 76 Comments

  1. I do.
    The person (BTW is not related to me) interfered with another family member’s funeral, exploited the grief to decide everything, including the questionable burial place of the remains (a place far away from where everyone in the family resides, with no tie to the deceased).
    When on to give financial advice that required robbing the children of their inheritance to the advantage of another relative. Fully aware of the fact, too.

    From what I can see, he doesn’t think he has a black heart. He has an incredibly twisted value system and treats his family members like they are sick children he’s raising money for on a telethon. He does a lot of “I tell you what, I’ll give you X and you match it”

    What I know of his family history is that his father was basically a medical experiment-he’d had countless surgeries for unnamed problems over the years and died pretty miserable. This man was the favoured son-the oldest son was beaten regularly and this man was the golden, favoured child. His sister was sent to another family when she was 13. I think in this environment he failed to learn empathy and compassion. People are a business model to him: safer that way.

    Don’t know the astrology, except he has Pluto in Leo.

  2. Are you making a distinction between people who take revenge vs the black hearted?

    I know someone who becomes black-hearted, IMHO, but it is usually for a reason. But it IS a kind of black hearted nastiness that I don’t understand. Pre-meditated cruelty.

    Some identifiers:
    -victim mentality
    -blindspots regarding their own behavior
    -planned/premeditated acts of viciousness
    -gaslighting 🙂

    She has moon in scorpio square pluto; also mars in aqua in 1st house which to me can be some serious detatchment from self and situation. I can’t remember rest of chart. Oh, and TON of planets and asteroids in Leo….

  3. This is my experience, through working through and with abuse (survivors). Typically the people you describe would be called abusive. They do prey on others because they themselves feel insecure/weak/lack self-esteem and instead of taking responsibility for working on those things, they instead decide to try to feel powerful and in control by kicking others around. It gets more complicated than that, but that’s the basic stuff.

    And they know what they are doing. These are the people who will treat certain family members or friends like total garbage but may be supernice to their bosses or other authority figures. Their choosiness of people as prey is proof that they know what they are doing, either consciously or subconsciously. Hell, they might just be ‘nice’ to still be self-serving, to get what they want. And many of them have a win/lose attitude – they can’t see that both people can win in a situation – if anyone besides them ‘wins’ then they MUST have lost.

    They probably won’t imagine themselves as predator, because they will not even realize their own flaws, that is a threat to their image of their perfect self. They will refuse it and project it on to everyone around them, blaming everyone else for their own crappy behaviors. X person nearby gets hurt? Well, it must be that person’s fault! You’ve probably heard people say, “You’re too sensitive!” or “If X didn’t do X then I wouldn’t have had to do X bad thing to them.” That is their way of blaming their target and taking any responsibility off themselves for bad behavior.

    In my own experience, the people I have known with strong Capricorn AND Scorpio in the same chart have a tendency toward this behavior. I’m sure not everyone with this combo is like this, but the ones I’ve known were really messed up and really abusive of power and control. I’ve also seen people with lots of Cancer in their chart twist and manipulate and really ruin the lives of others for their own benefit. It’s not a sign you would think of doing that, but they can be mighty twisted if not developed right.

    Sorry ’bout the wall o’ text, just a subject I’m passionate about and have spent so many hours on.

  4. My “favourite” black heart is a coworker.Nasty,bitchy, manipulative, slandering,invasive, a compulsive liar and someone pathologically sure that she is the best,trying to escalate but never quite managing due to her poor “social skills”.She tries to take advantage of other´s pain or suffering in a low, mean base way.There´s very little authenticity in her, she´s all fake.A real pain in the …
    She has a gemini sun Tsquared by pluto/uranus on one side and saturn on the other.
    She has mercury cj mars (hurtful words)cj jupiter (enlarging it, she HAS to be heard) all opposed a scorpio moon (!!)cj neptune.Merc opp neptune alone could explain the lying.
    Mars trine pluto could give her resilience to keep on going and never correct her course.
    As far I am concerned, we seem to be doomed with each other, our suns exactly opposite and my north
    node conjunct her sun!!

  5. I wonder if people who have been alternatively beaten/abused/degraded as well as elevated are more prone to this.
    I know two other people (I was friends with them; I no longer am because of their casual cruelty) who were abused severely as children, and also pumped full of the Messiah complex by their abuser.
    “I’m going to smash you into the ground and then tell you how wonderful you are”

    I think this disconnect creates the potential to seek out the Other’s destruction, thinking it elevates one’s position in life.

  6. Elsa, I work in counselling for more than 20 years. I had encountered many of those people in my line of work. My take is that they see life as a jungle. It is a constant battle for surviving, and in order to survive one must show no mercy. It is a predator mentality, and although they don’t see themselves as evil, they think they are smart, and their prey is dumb. Anything that could lessen their ability to hunt (mercy, sorrow, regret, love, friendship, etc) is discarded as inconvenient and undesirable. In general, I would say this behavior is basead on a twisted Pluto. Sorry if the text is not clear enough, English is not my first language, but the subject is so interesting I could not resist…

  7. Although I have to say I think we all are quite capable given the right circumstances of black-hearted behavior I do know a couple of humans [unfortunately related] who consistently operate this way. One is a double Scorpio and the other is a Scorpio with a loaded Scorpio 5th house. I know all Scorpios aren’t this way and I’m not implying they are but these two have taught me over and over again to recognize the what’s-in-it-for-me motivation.

    As an example of how they think: I once told the Scorpio with the loaded 5th house that I’d like to do volunteer reading help and she said “Yeah, so you could be better than them.” She simply could not understand that someone might want to help another because they love books and wanted to share.

    Anyway, as they age these two keep getting worse and I’ve noticed one thing they have in common is they don’t belive in anything outside of themselves, no higher power, no anything. Yes it is sad.

  8. My father has a black heart. If it doesn’t further his wants and needs, he’s got no qualms about trampling it to get there.

  9. Also, he treated my mother pretty badly. Beat her, never held a job but made her have two, kidnapped me when I was a kid….and yet STILL bad mouthed her STILL badmouthed her ’til the day she died and then some.


  10. A friend of mine recently got out of a relationship, well, really she had no other choice, he was arrested finally (Thank God) for rape and grand larceny. I named him Rasputin the first time I met him and would not allow her to bring him around my children or my home, EVER! But, she was taken by him…..completely monetarily and emotionally. He stole more than 50,000.00 from her and she still could not see that he was evil or at least that was her cry.

    Interesting to me that yaypopcorn mentioned both signs on her post….his and hers. I believe she is just as manipulative in some respects but plays the victim to get people to feel sorry for her.

    He is a Sun Gem, Moon Gem, Merc. Gem, Mars Aries, Venus Leo…don’t know his exact birth time, but am betting he is a Leo Asc.

    Hers is a Sun Cancer, Moon Pisc, Asc. Scorpio, Merc. Leo.

    I met her through another friend 2 years before she met this guy and she was quirky, but not who she became when she met this fellow. She abandoned all friendships, including her dog, whom I took in. She sent me an email a few weeks ago with a link to his arrest mug shot…..I got the creeps so bad!!! She told me that he has done this number with countless women around the country and there is or was a website dedicated to finding him by one of his victims……it is like a movie….a bad one, but still.

  11. Ok, trying again… I call it predator mentality, a twisted survivor instinct. They think everybody sees the world the way they see it, only doesn’t admit it. In a sense, they have a black heart, because they don’t know the light of love, hope or happiness. They just don’t believe these things exist. So, their behavior is justified (in their minds), as they believe the whole world act the same way…

  12. It’s called BPD – borderline personality disorder. The only way for them to feel calm is to create chaos for everyone around them.

  13. Yes, they are not sociopaths. They have concern for some in their lives (their tribe, you could say), but is not authentic love, is a more tribal feeling, like a lion respect the others of their kind. They have to constantly hunt (or get a fiz, like you said) in order to feel alive, and apt. As a lion looking around and saying: “hum, that is not a lion, is a deer, so I need to take it down…” And if someone they have a concern for (their tribe) ever challenge them, they will show their claws.

  14. Liza – I don’t think so. The type I am talking about get along with some people just fine and over the long term. But there is a distinct NEED to find someone to try to ruin or repress or oppress.

    It does not even seem important the person they are oppressing be bothered. The NEED (which is what it seems like to me) is to feel they are better than another person and the other person’s reaction seems irrelevant.

    For example, this could be the kind of person who combs over celebrity pictures looking for cellulite. They just can’t function without this thing in their life that I can see.

    (welcome btw)

  15. My husband was like that, and I don’t think his astrology had much if anything to do with it. He personified schadenfreude. On 9/11, when I told him about the towers falling, he laughed and pumped his fists in the air. He spent about twelve and a half years trying to kill my spirit and my kid’s, until he diagnosed his own Narcissistic Personality Disorder and began working through it. He and we characterize the change in him as, “turning into a human being.” The current state of psychological wisdom is that the disorder begins in infancy with abuse and/or neglect. They have no empathy, and now Greyfox is developing it. It is marvelous and… like a tightrope walk — his tenuous hold on humanity and empathy.

    You could learn a lot about black hearts by googling NPD.

  16. Afanasy’s mother. She was a scorpio and I think had leo rising. He has moon conjunct pluto in the 12th. His mother was emotionally cruel and self centered. Back in the 1950’s only men had power – she had two sons she regularly emasculated to make herself feel better.

    It was all about her and she would say so if you asked her. He is really beautiful and hardworking but she came to see him and she was all over him about what he wasn’t – she launched emotional grenades at him. Put him down just to build herself up. Tore at him. I didn’t understand why she didn’t see him the way he was.
    She could not stand to have a woman in the room that was better looking (she was beautiful and haughty)
    Imagine the wicked step mother in Snow White – you get it. She was perfectly nice to people she didn’t have control over.

  17. That gave me the chills. My sister’s ex is one. He’s a sag sun square pluto and uranus in virgo and saturn in pisces, and mars, venus and moon in capricorn in the 12th house trining pluto and uranus in the 7th. He is well supported by my sister being a good mom – he has jupiter in gemini in the 5th squaring the uranus and pluto – but is constantly abusive – and my sister thinks is actually crazy because he will deny how abusive he is. His father taught him to be a man through control. His mother turns a blinds eye to her husband and to his faults. He’s an artist and his abusive nature seems to come out in his depiction of women which is really chilling. Also he’s a teacher and is never late for school.

    Not sure if he’s a black heart or “simply” an abuser – unless it’s the same thing. No sign he’s getting help for it.

  18. My mom is like this with my sister and I, unfortunately. I think it is an issue with women in general, but I have no idea.

    She’s a Cap (sun conj my asc) with Moon conj Pluto in Cancer opposite Saturn conj Venus in Cap and Aq (and Mars in Cap, widely).


  19. Me again! I don’t know what to call them, well, besides what I want to call them when I get angry thinking about how mean they are. 😛 I wish I did have a good defining name for that ‘type.’

    Something I just recalled but can’t find – awhile back I remember reading an article about research that found that some brains of bullies are actually stimulated by bullying behavior and the reward centers of the brain apparently lit up! So acting in this way makes some of them feel good, which is why they refuse to act in any other way.

    This thread made me think of the people I see here or there who lash out at everyone else mourning the loss of Michael Jackson.

  20. Perhaps she’s compelled to act out the part of the collective shadow that seeks to isolate others and keep love at bay while collecting affection for them self. It’s a kind of selfishness that most people refuse or resist but she just gives right into it with full commitment. I think all of us, or some of us, carry or act out a part of the collective shadow on some scale. If we are willing to be truthful, we all have had some part of doing small “dirty deeds” here and there, but it isn’t offensive until someone gets out of hand with it. It’s written off as poor judgment or something until it becomes mass murder.

  21. Racism, prejudice, and anti-Semitism are good examples of this. To some degree a person feels discomfort around people who aren’t like them. This discomfort isn’t shunned or looked down upon, even though most of the time it’s baseless, as the other person hasn’t actually done anything to discomforted party. People are understanding and tolerant of using racial slurs in private company and/or other subtle behaviors like crossing the street or refusing to sit next to someone and so forth. Yet these same people may disapprove of and feel totally different from a Klu Klux Klan member or Neo-Nazi. They are taking on the collective shadow in a dynamic away where others are taking part in a passive way. Everyone shares in the shadow, but people don’t want to be aware of it.

  22. Unfortuntely, I do. The woman is married to my DH’s brother. Haven’t spoken to her in 7 years.

    When she first meets people, she susses them out to see if she can jerk them around. (Sound familiar?) When people catch on to her, and they almost always do, she decides she wants nothing to do with them.

    Her long list of foibles range from a lie-filled CPS call to embezzlement, and everything imaginable inbetween. This is one nasty piece of work. I’ve had nothing to do with her in many years, and honestly, I feel sorry for anyone who HAS to spend any time with her.

    The astrology: Sun/Venus conjunct in Leo, both opposite Saturn, and both trine Jupiter in Aries. The trines are how she fools people initially, and that opposition is her “black heart”.

  23. While you were ending up the discussion I was googling, so just wanted to add what I found… This is extreme, but definitely sounds a lot like what was being discussed. Thankfully I don’t know anyone like this!!

    The Sadistic Personality Disorder is characterized by a pattern of gratuitous cruelty, aggression, and demeaning behaviors which indicate the existence of deep-seated contempt for other people and an utter lack of empathy. Some sadists are “utilitarian”: they leverage their explosive violence to establish a position of unchallenged dominance within a relationship. Unlike psychopaths, they rarely use physical force in the commission of crimes. Rather, their aggressiveness is embedded in an interpersonal context and is expressed in social settings, such as the family or the workplace.

    This narcissistic need for an audience manifests itself in other circumstances. Sadists strive to humiliate people in front of witnesses. This makes them feel omnipotent. Power plays are important to them and they are likely to treat people under their control or entrusted to their care harshly: a subordinate, a child, a student, a prisoner, a patient, or a spouse are all liable to suffer the consequences of the sadist’s “control freakery” and exacting “disciplinary” measures.

    Sadists like to inflict pain because they find suffering, both corporeal and psychological, amusing. They torture animals and people because, to them, the sights and sounds of a creature writhing in agony are hilarious and pleasurable. Sadists go to great lengths to hurt others: they lie, deceive, commit crimes, and even make personal sacrifices merely so as to enjoy the cathartic moment of witnessing someone else’s misery.

    Sadists are masters of abuse by proxy and ambient abuse. They terrorize and intimidate even their nearest and dearest into doing their bidding. They create an aura and atmosphere of unmitigated yet diffuse dread and consternation. This they achieve by promulgating complex “rules of the house” that restrict the autonomy of their dependants (spouses, children, employees, patients, clients, etc.). They have the final word and are the ultimate law. They must be obeyed, no matter how arbitrary and senseless are their rulings and decisions.

  24. I have met my first person ever like that – she is my co-worker and I have never run into anyone who could fit the description before. I have spent a fair amount of time trying to analyze her and I think she is self-loathing. That would fit Elsa’s idea that she puts others down to feel better about herself.

    I was interested by blumarine’s coworker description:

    “gemini sun Tsquared by pluto/uranus on one side and saturn on the other. She has mercury cj mars (hurtful words)cj jupiter”

    My co-worker has a fixed t-square of Mars in Leo at the apex with Saturn opposite Neptune. A Virgo Sun exact sextile Jupiter in Scorpio, and Mercury exactly conjunct Pluto in Scorpio.

    I guess it goes to show… if you have a heavy duty t-square, use your power for good, not evil. I really feel my co-worker has a lot of intelligence and power and is using it only to torture other people, rather than do any good.

  25. To add briefly, all I know about her childhood is she literally screamed until she got her way, and her mother always gave in to her. She continued the pattern throughout her life…always looking for that one person who will give in to her.

  26. See, I don’t think it’s bullying. The people are very often removed from the person they’re after. It’s more like, “Oh. Kirstie Alley gained some more weight, this means I can have a good day.”

    And if they see a chance to feed, Kirstie they will do it but I don’t think this is necessary.

    It is more like, “Okay! Someone is down, so I am up!” And if no one is down, they will put someone down but they seem to have no need to know the person is suffering. I mean Kirstie doesn’t know what they are thinking but thinking it is enough to get them through the day.

    It’s akin to someone going to sleep counting their money, except in this case it is a list of people they are superior too and if there is someone shiny in their midst, they will definitely try to muddy them.

  27. Whoa Beth, I have an ex-bf whose chart seems similar from a glance. The similarities are:
    Sun – Taurus
    Mercury & Venus in the same signs but switched
    Jupiter – Scorpio
    Instead of Moon opp Pluto he has Moon conjunct Pluto.

    Is my ex a bully? He beat another ex multiple times, verbally and emotionally abused both of us, left her homeless, and nearly smashed me over the head with a metal desk lamp. I’d say so.

  28. I’ve met people like this. But it’s not really that they’re totally evil to the core; it’s more that they want something from other people in general and when they don’t get it, they attack, and attack hard.

    I was friends with this chick until one day she turned around (the catalyst being that I told her one day she was acting shady and with raging bias toward her cronies- yeah, she had cronies) and just straight up attacked me (verbally, of course). She managed to turn almost all of my friends against me, even the ones who KNOW who I am and knew the things the ‘friend’ was saying were lies. I was literally on the defensive with every social interaction I had for at least a year afterward…and I got hard on the inside. I froze almost everyone out, and my friend circle got a lot smaller.

    But you know what? The people who heard of me and still sought me out to get to know me? They’re my best friends now. The few people I trust, are just totally awesome and very much there for me.

  29. My Virgo Dad for sure. One of his favorite sayings was “Why make someone happy when you can ruin their day?”

    Also, my only Capricorn ex-girlfriend has been bad news to her friends, family, co-workers, the world. Any form of love or positive energy she had in her life she destroyed.

    They say we date our parents, can you guess which one she was?

  30. Hi all, new poster here. Hello! I know someone like this at my office as well. I don’t have a name for this kind of behavior/interaction either but there is at least ONE in EVERY office right? It is a JR high school feeling for me. This person is very likable in some ways (sense of humor is good when she’s not hating on someone) but MUST hate on someone all the time. I have overheard her speak poorly of me when I thought we were friends (naive I know)and was crushed, but I guess it has to be someone all the time. I don’t trust her anymore and often wonder why she is so misarable and nasty. For astrology purposes she has Sun conjunct Mars 1st house in Libra, with Virgo Rising. She has(Virgo)Pluto and Mercury in the 12th house but it’s too wide for conjunct and a moon in Scorpio(3rd House)making no aspects. Most of her planets are below the horizon. I really wonder why she is so nasty (astro speaking as well)about almost everybody including me at times. I really feel sorry for her mostly, but have learned to just stay away from her as much as I can in a work environment.

  31. Elsa….I called him Rasputin…remember “Nicholas and Alexandra”? Rasputin wanted so bad what they had and knew he would never achieve it so he sabotaged the czar and his family….Anastasia was their daughter that supposedly survived the execution. (Smiles)

  32. I was thinking sadistic, but it is more than that….it is “if I can’t have it, nobody can” feeling….that was my gut feeling about this guy.

  33. I call them tyrannical. They love who they love, but always need to have a major influence in those relationships. They can be emotionally vulnerable, but essentially and deeply they always always “wear the pants” in the relationship – they do not accommodate others (that is what “nice” people might do, and these people are very comfortable with not being nice). They can be funny, generous, and lots of other good qualities. But they are not threatened by being thought of as mean – they think it’s a good trait – and they think they are essentially good people (and that meanness is just a necessary trait in this competitive world).

    They do not want kindness from others, they want respect. And they think they have respect if others fear them or do not like them. They think they are very courageous for not needing to be liked, and they will be mean to prove it.

    p.s. The person who taught me all this was my step-mother, who is a Cancer with moon in Capricorn and Taurus rising.

  34. Lexie – I’ve come across several people like this, they play out the shadow but not across the board, just in a certain area. The hate is focused. They manipulate but only certain people or only when it comes to certain things. Like your friend, I grew up with a cousin who would simply yell at her mother, sometimes even using profanity, until she got what she wanted. This, as expected, got entirely worse with age. In the end, she became physically abusive towards her mother, father and siblings. Two year ago she broke the arm of a married man she was having an affair with, using a baseball bat. They got back together and he was trying, once again, to get away from her while she was attacking him. She followed him through traffic in her own car and she threw a brick through his windshield, while he was driving. The brick broke his shoulder and he lost control of his car. He survived thankfully, divorced his wife, and moved out of state. She is a double Aries and very kind towards those who aren’t close to her people think she’s a “nice” girl.

  35. Elsa – Because we feel threatened at the idea that we aren’t who we think we are or people will find out who we really are. The possibility that we could be “one of them,” or simply aren’t that different for those we fear. We fear even the association, like with homophobia. Even when the fear is simply based on ignorance or bad logic.

    I wonder if there is a way, using astrology, that we can pinpoint of get a general idea of where (but probably not how) a person will play out their shadow. I would imagine there would be multiple components. I used to think that the 7th house (projection) would have something to do with it, perhaps stressed Pluto or Neptune or the house opposite our sun or an empty house sitting across from a packed house.

  36. I work with people like these. Elsa they want to be known as the greatest of something sometime anything they love awards, and accolades, these awards and accolades show that they are accomplished and therefore helps them to climb the ladder, while doing practically nothing. So they can’t do anything but root out whose not with them or who they are questionable about helping them eventually get to the top.They get comfortable and will stay in position for years. I’m speaking of the 1.top culprit because there are different levels. There’s a level below them 2.that have the same title that can’t really stick it to the culprit without being outed by someone in the next level lower than them. So they’ll follow even with doubts and doing most of the work. Then there’s that next level 3. that hope and pray to be as lucky as the culprit and just might if they remain loyal and do it for the company. These are the ones that the culprit use to capture the lowest level. 4. The level of idiots who are weak minded and can be manipulated by the level above very easily. They’ll believe what they are told and do most of the dirty work next to the level above. My dear these are the people that take the wrap when something goes wrong. They will have a letter of recommendation out of this world. If that’s not the case or it doesn’t help they’ll go down thinking that it was because they were sacrificing for the better. That’s how the person on top stays on top and hardly gets into trouble. Money is not as much as power. They want power. They don’t want to really work so they network. Any little work that they do, is like high school with all the meetings and so forth. The people that are next in line same (title) They have all the little cronies doing their work for them. With it comes some perks they might get the days off that they request. Kind of like selling your soul to the devil. So it’s true when people say that it’s as if they felt they were some god. They will be, where they reign if it’s up to them.There are four levels. These levels will stick together and try ant tactics possible. If they stick together they hope to root out any traitor. All the while these same people still have their own issues with the company. Everyone except the culprit that is. They are all laughs. Depending on the amount of people in the department these groups can overlap making as many combination of this order possible.

  37. In my opinion it’s a Saturn thing.
    Ptolemy writes: “if he be not in glory, cosmically, and as regards the angles, he will debase the mind, making it penurious, pusillanimous, ill-disposed, indiscriminating, malignant, timorous, slanderous, fond of solitude, repining, incapable of shame, bigoted, fond of labour, void of natural affection, treacherous in friendship and in family connections, incapable of enjoyment”

    It’s very difficult to believe that people can have a black heart, because humankind generally desire the beautiful and the good, but this is the sad truth.

  38. I have met a couple of people who put other people down or humiliate other people in public and it is always to make themselves feel better. I think insecurity is at the core of it though – none of these people are evil. They have just learned a way of surviving.

    I do tend to see the best in everyone though and on odd occasions I do have to admit that someone is just not very nice – and I am trying to excuse them but they just are not and you have to amputate. I think at that level it is karmic. There is probably alot of astrology to explain it – different with each person. I agree with Elsa that energy is neutral until directed. You can’t just list an aspect and point the finger.

  39. “They do not want kindness from others, they want respect. And they think they have respect if others fear them or do not like them. They think they are very courageous for not needing to be liked, and they will be mean to prove it.”

    In romantic relationships, I have a co-dependency thing. I’ll draw a hard line until it feels like someone might leave me, and then I’ll back off.

    In OTHER relationships, I draw a hard line all the time. I -don’t- need to be liked and I’m not putting up with crap or stupidity or mamby-pamby people. If someone thinks I’m mean because of that, so be it.

    But, damn. I’m high performance. I need to roll with people that can think quick, talk quick, shoot straight from the hip. Sensitivity is reserved for the inner most circle of people that have gotten past the crunchy exterior and deserve to see that side because they know I’ll pull myself up by my boot-straps and carry on no matter how sensitive I am.

    I guess I’ve got a black heart. :/

  40. OH and ANOTHER THING (I’m chatty today!):

    ““Why are you such a bitch?” I’d ask and I’d probably ask it on the first day.”

    ELSA, this has confounded me for YEARS. I do NOT for the LIFE of me understand why people continue to be friends with folks that treat them like garbage or who see them treating OTHER people like garbage. It ASTOUNDS me!

    My boyfriend and I have had discussions about this! You do something off, once, I’m going to forgive you. You continue to do questionable or downright unfair things to me on a regular basis and that’s IT for me.

    Him? He’ll gladly let people punch him in the jaw, so to speak, and continue to be friends with them simply becuase “we’ve been friends for ages”.


  41. I had a really bad friend once, luci, speaking of why people stay in relationships with blackhearted people. i felt completely stuck until she did something so violating to me it doesn’t bear repeating.

    Another very wise (Pisces) friend said “if you stop being friends with her, what is she possibly going to do to you that she’s not already doing” and TA-DA I found the courage to walk and not go back.

  42. i think that this occurs when someone was born with too many plantes massed together in the same sign, or poles- like masses bunched in sag and then gem- all signs have the potential for the bad energy- but when they are so concentrated it seems to me that it would be harder to deal be nice to others and let the light…all hearts are dark, we struggle to make them good.
    i know alot of nasty bitches- there is a lot of wacky sewsaw action that spins out of control…

  43. Darn it.. I must have had an operator malfunction there… the first post didn’t appear.

    Was telling about my ex husband. Most people would think he was a nice guy if they don’t really know him very well. He would screw anyone over in a heart beat, especially if it had to do with money. He recently remarried and the woman he married was married to a man who beat her, cheated on her, and broke both of her arms when he threw her down a flight of stairs. She is perfect for him because she won’t question him and since he is only emotionally abusive, she probably worships him.

    He is a Gemini, Pisces rising, Sag Moon in the 10th, 8th house Neptune in Scorpio (VERY deceptive). Pluto on his DC opposing Jupiter on his AC.

  44. I am utterly fascinated by this thread.

    I knew a “Black Heart” several years ago, who was hell-bent on destroying me.

    Psychiatric diagnoses came to mind: NPD, BPD, DID… but “Black Heart”? I think that says it all.

    As for the astrology, I only know her sun was in Aries.

  45. i think malice is an energy that can feed. the soul. like love can feed the soul.
    the difference is like the jump between junk food and homemade from the garden scratch cooking.

    they’ve chosen that sort of energy to live on. the fruits of malice. it can be tempting because it can be a lot simpler to break someone down than to life them up. most people have big red buttons that are hard to miss.

    i’m thinking it’s a pluto thing.

  46. From what I’ve seen, people with saturn-pluto / mercury-pluto aspects or with moon-pluto in outgoing signs generally behave like this. I assume their heart is not necessarily ‘blacker’, but they act on the need to exert control in the outer world, not inside themselves. Of course, there’s a lot of projection as well. They generally stop pushing when confronted with their own ‘weapons’ or when reflected back their shadow (by which they are actually controlled, because they find it very hard to look and work inside themselves, that’s why they are so dependent on various (potential) targets around them). An intesifying factor might be a large number of planets in personal consciousness houses, including the sun.

  47. umm, I’m just a teenager, but I do A LOT of reading, and in my opinion, those who hurt others to make themselves feel better are not the black hearted. they only do those things becasue they were abused. They, are the wounded. the black-hearted are those who harm others just becasue they can, not to feel better about themselves, but so they can laugh without pity, mercy, or any feeling beyond pleasure at causing pain, and deriving joy from suffering.

  48. I know one. Sun/Merc in Sag trine Pluto. Completely self-absorbed, there is no one as clever or developed or interesting as him. Pluto in t-Square with Venus in Scorpio and Moon in Taurus. Deep seated hatred/fear of women, to whom he must always be superior. While manipulating, undermining and gaslighting the women he gets sexually involved with, to other women he is charming and extremely likeable, so they don’t believe anything the wife/girlfriend may say about him. Mars/Jupiter in Capricorn – calculating, clever strategist, knows just how to work people – either to get them to like him, or drive them crazy. And he does it SO coolly. Jupiter opp Uranus – always takes and preaches the moral high ground. Neptune squares the Mars/Jupiter – he can find reasons and ways to justify things the ways he wants that leave you breathless. And he doesn’t realise he’s doing it. If he upsets you it is your fault. He NEVER in his mind does anything wrong. He still expects people he has shit all over to be friendly to him. And he loves to sit around and verbally trash people, but dresses it up as just examining the reality of a situation. He speaks very softly, and despite repeated requests from people, has never changed this. It’s as if by making people work so hard to hear him he thinks he’s special (?). I don’t know. He is half-Italian and loves to quote the mafia ‘business is business’, and ‘end justifies means’. All this, while neglecting everyday responsibilities to pursue his’spiritual path’.

  49. Had a supervisor once like this. Sociopathic, vindictive, etc. Had a dirty, foul heart. It was as if a dark, oppressive cloud would enter the room with him. Lotsa bad juju. Met his daughter once and she was a pleasant, truly decent human being. Couldn’t understand how such a wretch could raise a normal child. Comparmentalized life, I guess. All I knew was that he was a Libra yet he was the most perverse, unfair person I’ve ever met (next to my ex gf). Now those two would be a match made in hell!

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