Astrologer, CF Perez, is interested in women and Mars. I was writing on her astrology mailing list some years ago. She was attracted how overtly I express Mars energy. We became friends.
We both feel that many women (and some men) have problems expressing their Mars energy (their anger, their hunter instinct, etc) and that it wreaks all kinds of havoc in their lives and in the world. But last night she came up with a new phrase…. “the unconscious Mars”.
“Yes, many women have no awareness of their Mars at all,” she said. “They have no idea how attacking they are. They just haven’t the slightest idea.”
“You mean they are bitchy and they don’t know it?” I asked hoping I had understood her correctly.
“Yes, that’s exactly what I mean.”
“Oh. Well that actually makes me feel better. Some people are intentionally nasty but others are unconscious? They are oblivious about how nasty they are, how biting and what not?”
“Yes. They have no awareness whatsoever,” she said.
“That explains a lot,” I said, as the information filtered in.
I recalled a conversation I had with Satori. “Maybe they don’t know they are a bitch,” satori said. I didn’t understand her at the time.
“So they run around being nasty, no one wants anything to do with them and they have no idea why?”
“I know a lot of people like that. They think they are sweet but they’re horrible. They are horrific.”
“Yes, hon. You would know a lot of then, there are a lot of them out there.”
“And you mean no idea?” I asked, just to be sure. It just seems like a person would know.”
Satori confirmed, “None. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.”
Have you ever wanted to get away from someone because of their attacking / aggressiveness when they would never see themselves as aggressive?
My mother. Mars retro/7th/Leo. She’s a Pisces with Libra moon and would strongly resist believing what a hellcat she is. She does have that Venus in Aries though….
Yes, but I have come to be ok with others unknowing. I stay and wonder what all the anger is about. Usually its either a way of connecting or pushing away. It relates to Transference rather than projection or displacement.
Kingsley now I have to figure out the difference between projection and transference, can you help?
Projection is a kind of blaming another person for ones inner stress or predicament. Vengeful Child, doesn’t really deal with the issues and denial is apparent.
Displacement is about being angry with person X but instead of being angry directly with X, the person gets angry with person Y.
Transference is usually related to aspects of ones unresolved childhood experiences and in the course of interacting within groups or authorities the person “picks” identifies another person who may remind them of a father or mother figure (projective identification) and transfers their difficulty in dealing with that stress onto the other person. Psychotherapists are always working with that kind of transference, thats where the work lays. The counsellor must be ok with themselves so that they can work in that transference and go to supervision/therapy themselves so they keep their countertransference in check.
Passive Agressive is being highly conforming “being so nice” but rebellious at the same time leaving their anger to go off in the other person. Sometimes one doesn’t realise the PA has been angry with you until the next day when you realise their is a “knife in your back” Sugar coated rebelliousness and anger squeezing out the sides. Sometimes all of the above psychological descriptions about dealing with feelings are apparrent
I can see that happening…just like many men aren’t aware of their Venusian side, so they end up projecting their Venus on women. Perhaps these “unconscious”-Marsian women are also projecting their agressiveness on men around them (and other women)…
Huh. I don’t know if I know anybody like that.
What I come across more is people who walk through life with a live chainsaw in their hands, constantly saying, “Why is everybody so mean to me?” without realizing that they are attacking the most innocent gestures.
Not people who don’t realize that they are fighting, but people who think that their fighting instinct is SO JUSTIFIED ALL THE TIME because they never stop feeling beset. (Usually because they went through some horrible time in their lives and never really figured out that it ended.)
Course, I tend to be prone to that, so that may be why I see it everywhere.
Becca – I have had some awareness of you for 5 years or so and I pay attention. Not only are you not aggressive, or mean-spirited, you are quite kind and very reliably so.
but it helps to realize i have done it, too. my entire interaction with my mother was full of that (let alone the girls in school who dumped on me) so it took me awhile to untangle it all out of my head. i’m sure there’s still some left in there.
it helps to recognize that this kind of thing happens, a lot, and can be so easy.
I do this. I have to be very very careful not to unconsciously attack my partner and my coworkers. 10th house Virgo Mars squared my 7th house Gemini Mercury and opposing Saturn in the 4th in Pisces. It’s tricky and it’s taken me most of my life so far to learn to deal with it.
I’ve noticed some people who slide into mean/attacking but would deny, only when they get around someone they sense is an easy target, a victim, a whipping post, maybe. It’s more like a pecking order thing, I’m not sure, like it’s an opening to vent their internal sarcasm and meaness. In particular, a woman I know who has just about all planets in Leo…
Mari, thanks for mentioning those types.
I now know exactly what you guys are referring to… and I used to work for her. *shudder*
Lupa: thanks for your honesty. It truly rocks my world.
Kingsley: thanks for posting this. I ended a friendship based on this type of denial. It was so painful, but I couldn’t ignorantly wish that my positiveness would transform her attitude.
I recall her sneering and calling a beautiful, cheerful lady a c*** because of her outfit alone (which was quite lovely) and knew the friendship was doomed. It was like being stabbed hearing that kind of vitriol.
Yes she did have unresolved issues stemming from childhood …but to quote her “I never analyze my own behaviour.”
I tried very hard to stay in there but the end lesson for me was, of course, you can’t do someone’s emotional work for them.
ewinbee, I’m just still totally cracking up over your chainsaw (massacre) metaphor. Are you a writer? I think I’ve been the faller for a good part of my life (as in falling trees, here in the NW, a chainsaw wielder).
And speaking of people you have worked for, why is it that just about everyone I know, everywhere, has had to put up with the “psycho bitch boss from hell”? How do they get to torment all my friends and family? The only thing I can think of is that it serves as a function to push someone out of the nest.
Mari, I write. 🙂 Does that mean I’m a writer? I have yet to get paid for anything but proofreading. I so appreciate the compliment though!
On the “psycho bitch boss from hell” phenomenon… and this is actually very topical to this post… I have a theory that our culture doesn’t (yet) teach women how to sit comfortably in positions of authority. Yeah, I’ve heard a lot about women being resented in power just because they are women, but most of the problems I’ve had with female managers have arisen from insecurity in their roles and a seeming need to prove their power OVER and OVER again. I’ve seen men do it too. Just not as often.
Kashmiri, people who know me would say it’s not so but I know the capacity to lash out at people is there. I have to pay very close attention to myself to know if the people around me are being hypersensitive or if I am projecting rage I wasn’t aware of. It’s most likely to come out with my co-workers when I feel they aren’t paying as much attention to detail as I would. (Virgo Mars) And with my partner or family for much more complex reasons.
I worked for a while in a corporate pet store grooming salon. The retail store managers were our superiors in some respects and would come in and do their little checklists to make sure we were following policy. Sometimes they would pick a battle with us and then leave. I would always turn to the girls and say don’t worry, they just have tiny cocks. Which from me meant they have no power anywhere else in their lives and no hope to have power beyond bossing around hourly staff and groomers who made more than they did.
the united nations in me asks what if the pscho bitch from hell was raped as a child.
i have to constantly remind myself to be less judgemental, to walk a mile in their shoes and to ask myself what is behind their behaviour.
i remember working in retail sales one long saturday, it was closing time and I had forgot to lock the door and turn off the open sign. A customer walked in and said to me ‘the least you could do is smile’ He did not know that I would be visiting my father in law, who was dying of cancer right after work.
when i remember that story it reminds me to cut people slack and to not be so quick to judge, and i admit that i am not always good at it.
dear psycho bitch from hell. I am sorry that your life has been so hard for you. I hope that you find peace and happiness
Sometimes. But some of them don’t need to be raped…it’s good ol’ fashion judgmental arrogance.
I used to be that bitch. Cancer mars, saturn conjunct. What I didn’t realize, and now do very differently is that I didn’t warn people when they had crossed a line and so became very unreasonably angry when they did it again and again and again.
I think my head was often elsewhere and so I didn’t have an awareness when I was younger that someone was treating me so poorly that it became extreme but by then I didn’t know how to respond except by pushing back – hard. I was not in control so to speak.
Very often I never expressed that anger to anyone. I turned it inwards on myself. I have injuries to prove it too. Whenever I was angry I would stop caring about my body and end up with a surprise, bad, injury. I was always surprised when that happened.
A long bit of a meditation retreat brought me face to face with that behavior. I have since changed. I channel my energy and anger into physical projects – usually around the house (cancer) which helps immensely. I also, try to calmly let people know boundaries and appropriate behavior. Some of my extended family is not easy to deal with…. My friends I can choose and those are much easier to deal with, as I have rare rare occasions to let anyone that is a friend know that something isn’t right.
“I didn’t have an awareness when I was younger that someone was treating me so poorly that it became extreme but by then I didn’t know how to respond except by pushing back – hard.”
I have had a variation of this problem too. People would press me and push me over and over again until I just couldn’t take it anymore. Except instead of pushing back, I would just disappear completely or get really cold towards them. I definitely avoid confrontations. Mars square moon in capricorn/conjunct neptune?
I’ve learned over the years to deal with anger in a more direct way, to let others know nicely when they’re crossing a line (at the appropriate time) instead of waiting till it’s extreme and I’m stewing in resentment.
I wouldn’t call myself ‘bitchy’ but once someone has proven to treat me poorly repeatedly, I do have a tendency to be cold and unresponsive thereafter in the way I treat them. Not quite a grudge, but a low level resentment I guess. Mars opposed Saturn
well.. im not a woman but I have an interesting mars placement.
–in the 12th house of aries.. that’s right, an aries mars in th 12th.. if u would like to use chiron; its also part of a cardinal grand cross.
I don’t find myself to be aggressive at all.. I have a 5th house Sun in Virgo and a Leo Moon that conjuncts my Venus in Cancer..
the aggressive side might be more my Lilith I believe, shes 2 degrees away from my sun and south node conjunction at exactly 14 degrees.
I won’t get into much detail but I believe im pretty darn passive..
my mars semi-squares my pluto in scorpio, it squares my neptune in capricorn and chiron in cancer..
you would believe it to be enough but no, this mofo still has time to oppose my mrcury in libra too.
have no idea if im one of these aggressive people you speak of, but if I am.. please advise me so.
This post makes me think of women who have Mars in the 1st House… How can they be anything but warriors? The sign and placement may determine how conscious they are. Thinking of two that I know: one is conscious of her tremendous anger (mars and jupiter conjunct no less) and the other one has no idea she comes off as a monster. (That was her word actually when I cowered at her aggressivity — what am I? A monster?)
My Mars is in my first (just at the tail end). I’ve been both of those people. 😛 Thankfully I’m far more conscious of my anger these days, and am learning to express it when I feel it and not stew. 🙂
Gosh, I have been wondering about my mars today. Am I agressive when I should not be? I think sometimes. Or weak when I should be agressive? I have mars trine neptune. I just don’t know.
YES. Funny because last night anger induced insomnia forced me into writing a letter to this girl. And first thing I jot down, “I wish you would realize what a bitch you are”
This was just me getting something off my chest onto a paper. I’m not actually gonna give it to her.
Oh, gah! Another flaw I think I just may have.
I know I’m an angry gal. I know I’m aggressive. I try to warn people of this and they don’t believe me. So I tolerate the first time, and the second time I clench my fists and grimace, and the third time I’m vibrating, and the fourth time I snap at the person and then they’re all wounded. “What did I do? Why are you so mean? Do you snarl at everyone that way?”
Um, yeah, I do. Furthermore, I told you this was a problem and you continued doing (whatever it was). Oh, thanks, now I get to be the asshole. Again. *rolls eyes*
So I suppose my counter-question is: if you know you have this tendency, tell people about it, and warn them when they’re crossing the line, are you truly an asshole if/when you snap? Hm….
SaD, but What exactly are you trying to tolerate, that you eventually can’t be Ms Nice anymore?
Mari, I’m not nice and I know I’m not nice.
I had a nice little explanation typed out here, but… nah. Honestly, I feel projected on and attacked by your “tone” and I just don’t need it, thanks.
Uh, so sorry, just curious, as I don’t really understand where you are coming from..and why I got skipped to the fourth time??? No offense intended, glad tidings…
What signs do you think are prone to disappearing without a word? I’ve seen this in a man whose rising I have yet to figure out and he can’t find out. He gets close to people and then when something goes wrong in a relationship he has pursued he just ceases contact. He ceases contact with them AND their friends. And with people I know he misses. I can count 5 women he has done that to just with my limited knowledge. I do know he has Mars in Cancer but without the rising we don’t know what house it is in. Oh and his Mars conjuncts his Venus by 2 degrees. That’s all his cancer without knowing his rising.
He is a Leo sun with a probable Aquarius moon. He seems straight forward most of the time.
I asked him how he prefers to handle disagreements and he said he prefers to communicate through them. But his actions show that he just runs and hides which is contrary to what he told me.
I’ve been called a bitch enough times to accept that I can be one. I’m not always easy to deal with especially if I’m stressed. It would be pretty hard for me to deny this. Its pretty dang obvious when I’m pissed. I think anyone with sensitivity picks up on the undercurrent of raw primal energy in me. The others only see the pretty libra and are shocked when I let it out.
Mars conjunct Uranus in Scorpio sextile Saturn and jupiter.
Dunno but I guess that’s me. Retrograde, afflicted Mars, and I have to deal with it – I struggled with energy expression/anger management my whole Life, I’m afraid I might have more than a little something in common with the character described in this post.
My exx husband has fled from me so many times these past two weeks. I’m so angry at him. I tell him to stay away but he insists on trying to help me. I know, that’s nice but I’m so angry I can’t freakin control it and then I lash out. I think this Aries moon is igniting something deep and fierce in me. I used to reject anger but I don’t think I do anymore. I’m angry, I feel it and it has it’s right to be expressed. Tactfully. Rawr. …and when it’s done, it’s done.
I used to work w/ a crazy bitch. A bitch, but w/ real psychological problems. Deeply disturbed. Almost a double whammy.
I work w/ someone now whose a bitch, but it sneaks in. Smiley face, then bam! A cutting remark, a sarcastic quip… Different, but both not much fun to be around!
Mars/merc/jupiter 2nd sag. I have a warlike, big mouth, when I think I’m right. It’s terrible, but I can own it now. Sometimes I wish I had turned it loose, other times I’m sorry I did. As for folks who can’t see their own natural born killer? I.e. clueless yet deadly narcissists? Still feel sorry and responsible, but aware that I don’t want to give my life away to one of them. So sorry for them, though. And I feel responsible.
I have an exceptionally difficult time expressing my Mars DIRECTLY. (I know why, I just don’t always recognize it when it happens.) This was brought to my attention when I was called for jury duty. The attorneys asked me a question & I could not give a direct answer for shit. Even the judge ended up asking me the same question & I found it near impossible to give a direct answer. Words like “possibly,” “probably,” “likely,” kept spilling out of my mouth & I just couldn’t say “yes,” or “no.” I try to recognize when I do that now but, it’s not easy. When I do attempt to be direct, it’s like I have to gear myself up for it & asking a simple direct question could take me 5 minutes just to figure out how to word it. I know I have passive-aggressive moments but, I hope they don’t happen too often. 🙁
Mind you, I’m talking about being direct when I’m NOT angry. When I am angry, that’s another story.
LOL, Lilly, I grok that. I have Mars in Libra as well as many other planets….I have a hard time taking sides…
Oh, so that’s what it is – an unconscious Mars!
I am one of these women! I can’t help it. I’m just not nice, and it’s getting worse as I age.
But this really is unconscious: for years and years I was shocked at the way people saw me.
„But what did I do? What did I say?!“
Have you ever wanted to get away from someone because of their attacking/¸aggressiveness when they would never see themselves as aggressive?
No, not really – it never bothered me that much. It was like I knew we were of a kind.
(I am NOT talking of evil people).
I have 1st house Mars-Venus in Virgo squaring Jupiter.
And so… all my life it was my unconscious Mars!
Oh, and I just saw the title: with me it’s definitely NOT passive aggressiveness!
It does sound like a transference problem.
And I know a lot of unconscious men Mars. They see themselves as innocent, mommy/daddy’s little helper, ale on to much, make a mess of things and expect a pat on the head aren’t you wonderful not realizing the chaos ans demands that the world acknowledge them. I like to call it the Eddie Haskell syndrome. “Yes Mrs. Cleaver”. No idea how nauseating the contrivance alone is. I find just as many men have unconscious Mars.
I met with my ex bf 25-27 July 2015 on Internet. And last time I fight with him my ex distance bf April 7. And then he didn’t talk or text anything to me. ( he like to do like this always when we fight. And then back to me and explain anything to me again. Last time he back to me in December 30 2015, makes me confusion many times ) and april 26 2016 , he text me and said he don’t want relationship with me again. And I respect what he want. And then may 14. He text me and said still love me and need me. But don’t want relationship. Hmmmmmmm he okay?? Lol. He scorpio and I’m aries (march 22) what happened to me it’s because mars retrograde?
I’m late to this party, but it’s an interesting subject because I used to know a textbook case of a stressed Mars. It was a man, he had Rx Mars in Cancer in the 10th house, on display for all to see. He freely admitted he was passive/aggressive. To add to his lovely personality, he had an exact square between Pluto and his Moon and an exact trine between his Sun and Uranus. Here was a dude who would tear you apart with such a sweet smile on his face you would wonder if you were the criminal.
Projection: “You hate me”.
Transference: “Suzy hates you”
Passive-Aggressive: Sybil: “Nobody learns anything from a governess, apart from French and how to curtsy.”
Countess Violet: “What else do you need? Are you thinking of a career in banking?”
Out and out snark: Sir Richard: “I’m leaving in the morning Lady Grantham. I doubt we’ll meet again.”
Countess Violet: “Do you promise?”
I myself prefer the “out and out snark”. What’s the point in playing games?
Anyway, I have a sister who has a 12th house Mars. She is a walking talking anger machine. However, she is incredibly sweet and kind to people until they utter their first independent thought. If you keep agreeing with her, she’ll keep being nice… she’ll even start buying you meals and giving you gifts!!! But the agreeing gets hard when she starts to let KRAZY out. So you either have to be crazy, too… in which case you’ll be friends with her for years until her Krazy trumps your crazy. And when she blows, she will blow big. No name is too coarse to call you; no retribution too disgusting (she loves to put dog poo on people’s doorknobs). When I call her (very, very seldom) she takes it as permission to scream and diatribe against every family member she currently has a grudge against. She keeps saying “I am a NICE PERSON but my family treats me like SHIT!!!”.
She’s not nice. She buys off people until they can’t take it any longer. Her husband just ran away to another state, after her 150th crazy rant. He finally took her literally.
But I do believe her story is that she IS nice and you DON’T appreciate her. She really, really believes this. She thinks she is completely misunderstood.
12th house 16 degree Mars in Cancer. Mars in Cancer is already feeling cranky. But in the 12th house…. oh lordy.
I remember in my 5th grade class, a friend of mine was having trouble with another friend of ours. Me and my friend wrote many notes about this, her expressing her unhappiness at the situation. I will never forget she ended a note of hers like this “Jennifer is just a butt. Maybe she was just born that way.”
Truly inspiring. It stuck.
I have Mars in Cancer in my 10th house, and yes, I am aware that it’s supposed to be a “difficult” position, but it has worked quite well for me so far, I suppose. I am a freelancer, and while I never ever use personal influence over anyone (don’t need it, thank you very much :-)), I must admit that I often felt that initially, at the beginning of my career, I was given certain assignments because I am very good at establishing a sort of cosy “intimacy” even with strangers – which, I suppose, could be interpreted as Cancer at work. Or not.
More importantly, though, I have my Venus in Aries – and let me tell you, I’ve never ever felt inhibited in love or sex. In fact, it could be argued that I am *quite* aggressive sexually (which tends to surprise people based on my “sweet” and “feminine” look).
P.S. If there’s one thing I despise it’s passive aggresiveness, and I have never acted in such a manner. I am not the kind of person (often women, alas) who hints at things or speaks in the third person to refer to a erceived fault in the interlocutor. I have “cancelled2 more than one person for doing just that. You want to tell me something – spit it out. No need to be shy OR unpleasant; ANYTHING can be discussed with me openly and directly. If not – I have no time for you.