I have a friend who routinely give people what they want. If a person likes to be encouraged, she encourages them. If you want to be alone, she’ll leave you alone. If you want to talk, she’ll talk.
Further, if she knows you don’t want to do or talk about X , she will not bother you about X.
So what about the opposite? People who withhold. They know you want or you like X and because of it, you will never, ever get it X from them. It doesn’t matter if they are up to their eyeballs in X, they will keep this from you and observe your suffering.
Further, they will give you exactly what you don’t want and lots of it!
What signs or aspects would you associate with these behaviors?
Well, I’m libra and I’m very much like the first friend you describe. I am reminded that not everyone is like me when, for example, after I’d suffered some losses (loved ones, health, job, in short succession) people up and pressed me to talk about those things when they were still fresh. It wouldn’t occur to me to ask someone blunt questions about a trauma, especially someone I didn’t know very well, unless they provided some obvious clues they wanted to talk about it.
My friend who does this is also a Libra.
Your friend that witholds is also libra? …I heard just yesterday that not all libra suns are nice … but i’m not sure what this ‘shadow side’ is?! It’s kept more underwraps than poor old scorpio’s shadow
No, my friend who gives.
I don’t have friends who withhold.
Libras are good at going along to get along, but you do that enough and you’ll start harboring a lot of resentment, especially if the courtesy is not returned. The dark side of libra is codependence. It’s also an intellectual, masculine air sign that’s ruled by Venus. Definitely met my share of arrogant librans.
Mother a Libran, Son a Libran both with Taurus Moon or Ascendant, also Aunties, friends for a while. Venus can be utterly treacherous: loyalty is political, not personal; -sit on the fence to wait and see whose ship is sailing on the ‘winning wind’ then jump aboard. Recently heard Libra as the sign of peace! It is also the sign of WAR- see Putin, and others.
These two above are really interesting … now i think, i remember an astrologer that was really into venus, not really raving about libra in venus- they were a bit dismissive & just said ‘they like nice backdrops’…and i was thinking surely venus should be fab in libra as it’s venus ruled … i dunno, slightly different track but similar lines maybe.
Withholding – could it be moon in Scorpio? Or Mars conjunct Venus? Scorpio moon in opposition with Mars+Venus?
Aquarius or Capricorn for the second type. Aquarius is naturally contrarian.
Capricorn doesn’t like giving up control, so they may assert their control by not doing what you want. I can see Scorpio doing this as well.
But mostly I see it as a control thing … maybe Saturn square Mars?
shortpants, I’m with you on this one. My first thought was the 1988 generation that have uranus conj saturn, either in late sag or early capricorn. In sag they blow it out of proportion as in they enjoy the chaos it creates, in cap is more like they get avenged by making someone pay.
As for saturn square Mars…id see that as more of an open warfare thing but I guess now you made me think. I’m having transit saturn squaring my (no other than) natal mars/sat opposition when it resumes fwd motion and be exact at 26/27deg.
The thing is, right now tr saturn is actually square uranus AND my nodal axis exact! And RIGHT NOW I’m really enjoying withholding from my boss and abusive clients, AND from corpses from the past (tr SN on natal SN! in scorpio 7house!).
So I guess pluto/scorpio also has something to do with this, but I still think withholding Is uranus/saturn?! because I’ve seen it in action against me an now with myself?!
I’m a combination of both. Out of respect, I will not ask someone to say something or do if they don’t feel like it. I like to respect others’ feelings and the situations they’re in. I don’t want to bother or to be bothered. I don’t have personal planets in Libra, but I’m Cancer, Cancer can be clingy and demanding, but I’m not pushy. But, I also have Scorpio and a packed 8th house. That’s what I withhold sometimes. I’ll give an example. My SIL is a very pushy, almost verbally aggressive woman and she will push you to talk about things you don’t want to, she will drag you into conversations about people just to gossip and if you actually say something good about them, she will attack you. So, as I don’t like this kind of conversation or to feel like s*** after we see each other, I decided to withhold information from her. When she asks, I choose not to tell her even though she wants to know it badly. Withholding information is my way to make a distance from people who can’t seem to give you a break if you don’t want to talk about something. Or they ask questions they have no right to ask. Like, oh, your mother died, you didn’t cry, why is that? So, in my case is some kind of self-defense or protection But Cap and Aqua and Scorpio withhold for sure.
Ok … i’m starting to get it … is it a bit like ‘stonewalling’ in relationship dynamics … it can be interpreted as passive aggression but also as self-defence/ self- protection – depending on your perspective?… this is really making me think!
Yes, it’s self-defense. In my case, it’s protection when I feel attacked or when someone tries to use information against me or even someone else. I was lately writing a lot here about my relationship with my brother or my SIL. They drag me into a conversation about our close relative, and when I say something they attack me or him, even if he’s not with us at that moment. So, when they try to find something out, I know they don’t have good intentions, so I withhold information, tho I know they really want to know it. Because, they don’t want a normal conversation about a certain situation, they use it in a bad way.
“ Like, oh, your mother died, you didn’t cry, why is that?”
This is what I’m talkin’ bout. What makes people think this is okay? Does the SIL have a lot of fixed energy by chance?
Yes! Moon, Mars, Saturn, and Pluto in Scorpio.
Offering is definitely Libran, and they’re very mindful of not upsetting people with words, so would never push for certain conversations.
The withholding seems a vary Saturnian trait – maybe someone’s sun in harsh aspect to Saturn? Perhaps Scorpio/Taurus?
I mean, where do you find these really cute images, Elsa, so funny and nice, congratulations on that. It attracted me to this piece 😅
Yesterday was my birthday so I know what I’m talking about, Libra♎️s are pleasers, it pleases them to please, their pleasure is derived from making others feel pleased. But the way you described would be a function of 💅Venus being on a certain sign, say 🐮Taurus🐂♉️ or 🦄Sagittarius… because if they have it in 🌊🐟🐠🐡Pisces♓️💦 or aspecting Neptune then their need to express love will be idealistic, altruistic, high vibrational, not as mundane, like bringing 🕊Peace🕊 and Harmony to Humanity and bettering the 🌍World, which pushes towards becoming a Healer 😅
The second personality I’m inclined to agree with Plutolover that it likely is 👹$aturnine, they really really really like their 💰💎🏴☠️Treasure☠️💵👽🤑 chests of whatever is valuable in the 🌍World, avarice and stone 💔Heart🖤 is a frequent trait with them and it definitely expresses like that in some way, even if counterbalanced with other more generous traits.
I’d say that, since they’re kind of opposite behaviors and the first is definitely Venusian, then likely the second one, being the negation/denial of the first, likely has 👹$ATUrn🪐 or ☠️Capricorn🐐 afflicting 💅Venus.
well its someone super cheap. it has to do with FEAR so yeah too much saturn. but isn’t it weird that saturn is exalted in libra? probably the light side of saturn due to the exaltation.
To be honest my first thought was psychopath!!! Lol!!! Why on earth would you withold something from someone that you have plenty of and you know they’d like some?! … some sort of sadistic astro line up?! Lol? I’m struggling to even begin to get my head around this one!!! Looking forward to reading people’s answers!!!
Psychopaths do this for sure.
But you see above, there are other explanations like a person wanting to protect themselves. That remark broke this open for me. I just haven’t had a chance to transcribe my thoughts. I just want to tell you, I know more than one psychopath who I deal with, regularly, and they definitely do this.
Psychopaths are pretty easy to read and predict, once you crack their code. I’ve explained this but it’s been awhile… years.
Starting to get it from more than one perspective- thank you!
yup definitely cruel and bad people. they know they are bad doing this and maybe they dont care. but some day they cry so hard, snot coming out and bubbling in sorrow and regret if something bad happen to them. cycle of life and karma
Giving vs. Withholding
I believe this has to do with Jupiter / Saturn. Expansion (giving) and Construction (witholding). My personal experiences though.
^ constricting… not construction lol
Believe it or not… Cancer comes to mind for me.
A lot who commented have mentioned the Cardinal signs quite a few times and that may be a point. I look at Withholding as control in a passive aggressive way. But I think each cardinal withholds in their own way. I also add Scorpio to that. Personal experience…
Anyone whose a parent or someone they love used it as a weapon on them growing up without another love anchor type person for them to act as a safe harbor.
I can see this. Thank you!
I will speak as a Cancer: I absolutely withhold when I feel it necessary. But I don’t like it AT ALL. In fact, it makes me want to cry. I want to be open with everyone, but that is not to be, and it is on a case by case basis, having resulted in the hypothetical person breaking my trust.
My best friends get the opposite at all times. In fact, I thrive on building them up.
To add: I never withhold in order to tear down, just to preserve myself.
The most wicked witch I know is cancer sun and Capricorn moon. She’s a withholder for sure and has a very distinct coldness to her. Her cancer makes her come across as warm to those who don’t really know her and then once you find out who she really is you see it’s all a facade…
Capricorn moon.😑. I know a few. Not my favorite moon I’m afraid.
I’m Sag sun , Pisces moon with a 4planet Stellium in Libra. When I have a choice I give…I give second chances too. But not thirds (except to my sister, but she’s so needy I’m about all she has.)
I like your criteria.