I feel I have a negative “affective presence” at this time. I’ve just learned this term. It means, my presence has a negative affect on the group.
I don’t think it’s always been this way but it’s this way now. I give this to Pluto transiting my first house and perhaps my Scorpio heavy, progressed chart.
I have known this for some time and I have tried to do something about it. I’m still good, one on one, but in groups – forget about it. I’ve experimented and I’ve found that an epic effort on my part, moves the needle about the width of a hair. This is leading me to withdraw, in the interest of all involved.
Pluto in the first house is sometimes referred to as a “lone wolf”. I’ve observed this for decades but now I’m living it.
I get a lot of complaints from people, all the time but as I just told the last person who contacted me, authenticity is a value of mine. If I come across as raw and unrefined, it’s because I am raw and unrefined. I’ll say it again, I don’t have a way to hide Pluto in my skirt.
I also think this is likely to get worse with Pluto in Aquarius. I would not choose this transit at this time, but what can I say, I’m forever, hapless.
How does your presence affect the group?
aw i hope you keep posting and giving your thoughts in the group ^^
many people who know who you are will always want to learn/read what you have to say even if its not towards the subject itself or just posting about cooking and gardening.
hmm for me, i dont know really, i just try to respond to whatever it is that comes to my mind. If the subject is interesting OR if something relates to me or a thought just appears in my head about it. I dont really think about what others feel about what i say lol I mean as long as i’m not offending anyone and i’m posting with good intent and trying to learn/understand others.
well, cherie Elsa , I just want to say that I love you! I think you’re great, you’re right on, and I appreciate you – and all the work you put into your blog.… But then again, I have mercury and Venus and Scorpio. 😅
Thank you! 🙂
“Raw and unrefined” as you say. Or honest and straightforward. I hate it when folks beat around the bush and offer half-truths. Can they be trusted?
I don’t trust them… with my time.
Interesting take on Pluto in the first house, I had this placement as a child.
As for you being raw, I actually like it.
You’re direct and get to the point.
You make me laugh at times…maybe it’s my Sadge sun that finds you honest and true.
Anyway, I commiserate with you for Pluto traveling through your first house!
I love your rawness as well. You tell it like it is and I truly value that over most of the astrologers I’ve heard
I feel Elsa you are one of the Astrologers that tell it like it is. If there are negative slants on this, I find it helps me look deeper-is this occurring in my life-or out there? If it is-I can re caliber or off set things to a more positive bent. And how many times has the way you look at things save me from confusion! I find it interesting to look under rocks. But then I have Moon/Pluto. Please keep up the good work!
What you do here is care for people. You don’t know me but your posts seem to be capture my essence. I’ve been under pressure and walking a tight rope under harsh conditions. I have pluto in 1st house conjunct uranus. Progressed chart shows conj. of jupiter,pluto,sun and uranus in the 1st. Life has been hard. I’ve lived through alot of trauma. My journey has me healing from pain buried deep inside. I’ve had to keep things close to the chest as to not disturb this process which it’s been all encompassing [raw and undefined]. I’ve been helped by you and others through this medium. Is your style heavy, yes but very helpful. Though we have rough aspects or difficult natal chart, we are even greater than them. Thanks for the time and effort you put into this. You ROCK!
Thank you. I do care for people and I’m glad you’ve been helped by this site.
I have natal pluto in 1H also. Ditto on everything you said. Thank you for putting it into words.
Debby in Kansas
I am quite new to this site, but yes l have noticed, Elsa.
I admire your self awareness.
I have done this sort of thing too, when l have felt compelled.
I spoke out about abuse in the church 30 years ago…
And about issues of gender equality too.
Makes me think of Cassandra.
You could try the 3 day rule: write it, sit on it, decide.
My transiting Saturn is getting ready to come out of the 12th. Pluto less than 10 degress from the cusp of the 12.
I feel it too. Strange forebodings.
Thank you, Dianne. I am disgusted with all the false-faced, deceptive people out there. Having Libra, I have moved in the other direction, to balance.
I used to say, I don’t pre-chew the food around here and this site has never been for children.
I get that, Elsa
My son’s loaded with Libra and he has moved in the opposite direction too … to balance makes a lot of sense
Hi there Dianne! Good to see you here…
I’ll keep saying it: Elsa is cool and funny and true!
This ‘affective presence’ is something I didn’t know about myself til I became a hermit…
and was just getting ready to ‘come out’ when covid hit…
Pluto has been in square to my Aries Sun and now moves into my Aquarius 1st house!!
Saturn will conjunct my Jupiter in 2nd house at 29deg…which is opposite my natal Saturn!!!
Been feeling very positive more and more each day somehow this new year!! But been staying away from groups in person…
I relate to the hermit too. I work with Tarot–a daily meditation.
I like the word Anchoress better. I dont pray, but l do contemplate and l have started drawing too…a kind of spiritual diary. A way to make the ‘dark’ and the ‘light’ real in real time and space so it doesn’t muck up my psyche and draw unwanted things to me to play out… I used to write it out…but something changed. Uranus transiting in the 3rd, helped l think.
Thanks for the prompt.
This is interesting. I’ve never thought of it.
I have a first house Pluto (I have a busy first house). I like groups but it can depend on the group. The ones I know, I know where I’m at. Sometimes I can tell a good story, or invite someone to tell theirs (like my husband). But I’m always acutely aware when I start saying something that isn’t adding to the conversation. I don’t like that so I try to err on the side of shutting my mouth (try). I need to know the pecking order of a new group. It seem very Virgo (order).
so true. I have pluto 1H also. The difference where you feel welcome, and when you’re not so sure.
Debby in Kansas
jeez you had to get this on my birthday ?? lol
Is it your birthday? Happy birthday, mick!
Negative affective presence – (NAP) sounds deadly doesn’t it? As is so often the case when talking about the Human Condition,,,things are not what they seem, For me NAP, it is a compliment, those within the group think can’t stand oppositional energy so therefore you must be cast out, Individual, creative thinking that comes from truth and authenticity wins hand down Elsa. Elsa you are a forerunner!
Thank you, Jack. It’s not easy writhing around in public, lol.
Absolutely NAP is a compliment!
Sifting is a continuous and laborious task as of late. Personally I don’t understand why even a drop of energy is spent on anything that doesn’t align with authenticity and truth this includes people, just gotta let it fall by the way side.
Adults have all had had a pivotal fork in the road moment to see the truth…isn’t that what Pluto square Pluto is somewhat about, have all adults not been thru this!?!?!
Elsa you said years ago….(like maybe 10 yrs ago;-)
“Pluto has a repulsion vs magnetic energy” I am a Scorpio ascendant and this has been my story…I love it cause i would not want the so called dust particles, I want the magnetic minerals around me that together builds force and strength.
I understand and I believe that but I don’t personally want these things. That’s what I mean, saying I would not choose this transit. Pluto in the 12th was hard, but it was private for the most part.
I’m not saying other people would feel like I do. I’ve arrived here, loaded for bear. Some would like this but i don’t. I feel like I’m a weed up everyone’s butt. No thank you. This not something I would ever enjoy.
I do think it’s powerfully healing, one on one, but serving as the shadow is tiring and the judgment at this time is so intense and sickening, it’s really pissing me off, when I’d rather relax and use that mental energy to try to get smarter.
@hazel it’s this:
I get it… but all you can do is *own it*….own being a weed up everyone’s butt ;-0…work it and own it as is in its natural state. Wouldn’t that be a way to get smarter somehow!? There is a nugget there 😉
What I’m thinking and attempting to do, is withdraw and do some (difficult) reading. Stuff I would really have to mull. Then, when I came up with something of value, I could post it, then periscope back down.
There are specialized things I am interested in… natally, with a packed 8th. Now I have five planets in Scorpio in the 6th in my progressed chart. I like I’m destined to make my way to the rim of hell, to gather the exotic flower that grows there. That concept comes from astrologer, Michael Lutin, in one of his books from the late 80’s, I think.
What a beautiful visual, “I’m destined to make my way to the rim of hell, to gather the exotic flower that grows there.”…that maybe the nugget or flower. That sounds healthy and balanced in its own way!!
@ElsaElsa Wow, 5! Really.. that’s a lot. Elsa, perhaps you could make a post about that? Fascinating! Interesting to know what life feels like for a person with so many planets progressing through their 6th. As for Pluto in the 1st, you know we all here like you regardless, right? 🙂
:-0 hahaha 🙂
I like things with edges, for me more
Contrasts gives depth, feel and realism
If someone just nods ,I yawn. I crave
Real “ No , no not today, just can’t be a sheeeople today” that’s the one who follows afraid of being unagreeable.
Been on a mad job search,my mind swimming all over the place.
I think I wanna go to this Jamaican breakfast joint that opens at five for job application I mean how many bad people are awake at five? got to be the stronger working group right? I think I can do it.
Raerae at the Jamaica breakfast joint at 5 am
I would wake for that! Elsa’s newsletter and Sammy Davis Jr singing “Keep you eye on the sparrow… when the going gets narrow “ and you applying for that job? Bonus Notions!!
I”ll meet you there, Moki!
Even I, who sometimes stays up reading until 5, would get up or stay up for Raerae at the Jamaican breakfast joint!
Perhaps Pluto new to your first house is palpating your self -identity..as Identified in the group, bringing up a network of habits and assumptions. Pluto asks, “ is this true?”
For me the deep work has spiraled in and out of repeating dynamics pointing ever more intimately into my heart, myself and my ability to love that which I am. Everything and everyone else seems to reflect something that helps me or drives me to exorcise a tattoo in my thoughts of who I learned to be which is not me.
As you emerge from the 12 h work and have healed physical issues ( I have been reading for some time) perhaps the next step is to dis identify or release the archetypal story of the hunchback of Norte Dame offering a first house embodied healing so the soul can drop deeper into being.
“Raw and unrefined” is the dose of strong black coffee or the shot of whiskey we ALL need to jolt us out of the fog. If it’s not thought provoking, why read it? This IS a one-on-one exchange — you’re not speaking to a group here, but to each individual reader. Don’t stop sharing what you find in those deep dives — we’re here and hungry for more!
Someone just commented on this… People Who Want You To Feel Bad About Yourself From 2013! I’ve been dealing with this… awhile, lol.
Born with Pluto in the First… in Leo!
My shadow is out there for everyone to see!
I am right there with you. Pluto in the first and Pluto in AQ scares me it will oppose my Ve at almost 2 degrees Leo… oh well it cant possibly be as bad as pluto in the 12th since 2008, or can it? I run a business and it’s really trying my patience, it’s never going to be a money maker, and I get no respect, just hands out trying to get me to take on even more of others jobs.. We’ll I am getting to the end of my rope, I’m ready to fold up my tent and let the artists field for themselves… Thanks for listening
This is great sharing! Elsa I experience you as a breath of authentic fresh air. It’s all fine. Truth separates the sheep from the goats…as to fitting into groups, after a while, they give off a strong message of ” Go away now” and I go. Don’t know whether it’s natal Pluto opposite the ascendant and natal Mercury square Pluto or natal Jupiter square Sun, but my energy just seems to become too much for them and I have to move on. I paint alone now. By age 60, convinced that I’m an Alien, decided to tell my Homoeopath. He said ” We have a remedy for people who think they’re from another planet.” : (
My whole life I’ve experienced being a weed up the butt of others in groups. I always end up on the periphery of whatever the group was trying to achieve. I’m not much of a joiner anyway, but I would eventually point out the shadow of the group egregore, the entity the group energy creates for good or ill. Like a jinn or genie. I would say things that revealed the dark side, and that people had become what they said they hated. As an old granny now I see it everywhere. I volunteered at the senior center only to discover the level of emotional development of the group was akin to being in junior high school. Catty, biting and judgement ridden old ladies is not a good look. Why would I use my life force to hang out in that atmosphere? Nope, my time is too valuable for that aggravation. I would end up saying something too loudly that makes the whole room go quiet and awkward. So, yes to being a weed, a sticker in someone’s sock, or up someone’s butt if it’s warranted. I love what you bring to the conversation, for your boldness, and all that yummy Scorpio and Libra. My natal Saturn conjunct Mercury in Scorpio square Pluto in Leo digs the heck out of the juicy bits you point out. With Mars and Neptune conjunct in last degrees of Libra in my first, I say Rock on, Sister!
I love this; especially your word choices. Keen observation how people become what they say the loathe. This almost happened to me!
But it didn’t!!
Thanks for commenting! 🙂
Pluto conjunct Sun (and Uranus and Mercury) and square Moon–12th House Placidus, 1st House in Whole House.
Yes, my Saturn in the 5th House (Placidus) is not the only reason I’m a party pooper!
But in my defense, why do people interpret intensity and gravity as a BAD vibe??
I have Moon conjunct Pluto in Libra, squared by Saturn in Cancer. Then, a trine from Jupiter (in Aquarius). I know exactly what you mean about a negative affective presence!! I can light up a room or turn it dark. It’s a difficult energy to control. When I’m in a negative mode, I hide until the storm is clear. I often have to redirect my emotional energy. I’ve come to accept this is how life’s energy works in me.
That is tough! Especially when you want to be social! I hope it manages to lighten in spite of the transits.
I am resigned to time alone. I think the clustered planets are a problem as well. Houses 1-3 for me, mostly. Quite withdrawn.
I am becoming more productive with it though. Reading and thinking and distilling.
I mean, I’d rather converse but people don’t like to talk anymore… or they are just too busy or depressed. So I’m adapting.
*sigh* I hear you.