Mercury Square Neptune – Unaware Of Lying

Mercury square Neptune. There is no doubt that people knowingly lie and deceive others. But sometimes it’s not that clear cut. For example, an alcoholic with tell you something they may very well believe, because reality occurred while they were in a blackout.  Another person may have lied to themselves for so long, they can no longer distinguish the truth.

Most people know that the use of psycho-active prescription drugs has become commonplace. These drugs have various side effects and a person can simply not have the command of their mind they think they do.

I have been struggling with this a lot lately. I really don’t like liars. They bug the hell out of me! But what I am saying above is true and in at least some cases it’s probably appropriate to be forgiving and compassionate when a person’s lies.

You can easily get in trouble with this. Lie to Elsa, she’ll make up an excuse for you!  But perhaps you get my gist.

Is it a liar, lying or is it a person who has lost their mind or something else?  I don’t think this is necessarily clear-cut.

How do you view this?

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Mercury Square Neptune – Unaware Of Lying — 59 Comments

  1. I don’t like out an out lies, but altered perception is harder to dissect out. Just because someone __________ based on the way they see things doesn’t always make it a lie. Some thing can be untrue without being a lie.

  2. This is always a hard one for me. My ex and I had a Mercury/Neptune nightmare in our synastry. His Neptune opposed my Mercury and my Neptune was conjunct his Mercury. We were like two blithering idiots by the end. Worst of all was we were dedicated to honesty in relationship so it was just untold amounts of head fuckery, not half of it intentional. I don’t think. Jury’s still out on that one.

    I had so many upset feelings, he said things he’d deny 30 seconds later. He’d claim to answer me when he’d been silent. I really felt like a crazy person by the time that relationship was over. BTW he smoked pot and I don’t, so I tended to believe my version of ‘yes, you did just say that.’

    Another one was, can you just repeat back every single word and syllable you just said to me, because you’re soooooo hard to understand. WTF are you kidding me. Did you listen to me at all or did aliens abduct your grey matter?

    GAH! I can’t believe I have 2 interviews next week. I am not going to play up my talents at all. Facts are facts. Hire me or not. I went through hell last month with Mercury Rx, I am still invested but I have CHANGED THE GAME.

  3. Mental illness is a whole other story. My mother is mentally ill and claims not to remember anything about anything. But especially if it means unfavourable press for her, lol.

  4. What if a person does not know they are lying? In this case, how do you reconcile it?

    Example if a person hallucinating, like a schizophrenic says there are snakes under the bed, you are not to bother telling them otherwise.

    But here is the thing: What if a person’s lies, directly affect you? What if they damage your reputation or something? And let’s say it is NOT malicious, but due to some kind of impairment. Then what do you do?

  5. If that was the case, I would forgive them in my heart for the burden they carry is unfathomable to me and distance myself completely to minimize my risk of exposure. It’s unfortunate and potentially hurtful to them, but I’ll do it.

    I also consider the fact, if someone is genuinely mentally ill or impaired, this behaviour (on their part) doesn’t take place in a vacuum. Chances are very high the delusion isn’t solely going straight to me. I take weird comfort in that. Like, if you do it to me and it makes no damn sense, I can’t be the ONLY one who sees this behaviour as potentially damaging.

    I just have to leave those people behind and not look back. It’s like drunk driving, to me. Any which way it’s viewed, I don’t want to get in the car with a drunk behind the wheel because I don’t want to die!

  6. Hard to say how I view this. My ex has Mercury trine Neptune. He was a weird liar – he wouldn’t offer up information freely, but with a Plutonic Mercury, I had no compunctions about asking questions freely (more like interrogating, haha).

    Thing is, he’d tell the truth – usually the bald-faced truth – but even in truth he could bamboozle you. In other words, he’d use the truth to mislead.

  7. Also, I answered that question based on cognizance on my part that the person is not well/impaired. I think most people give clues that allow me to trust my judgement on that one.

  8. Mercury in the 12th house struggles. I have had people tell me I said “this” and I didn’t in my mind. The two people had no reason to lie but to this day I don’t I think I said what they told me I said :/

  9. I have Merc Neptune & don’t knowingly lie – I don’t like liars either. I’m more paranoid (Pluto/Scorp).

    Anyway, I’m not sure what I think 🙂 I’d have to take it on a lie-by-lie basis I guess. It does bug me when people create a bunch of user names on the boards and/or talk to themselves in threads though.

  10. “It does bug me when people create a bunch of user names on the boards and/or talk to themselves in threads though.”

    Whoa! Wow…need attention, much?

  11. The biggest liars I’ve known are people who can’t/won’t take responsibility for their own lives.
    Everything is always someone elses fault.

    My brother has painted our Dad as a child beating monster. (we got a harsh spanking for playing with matches..my brother set the bed on fire) He has rewritten history to avoid facing the many mistakes
    he has made. I can’t even talk to him anymore.

  12. CeeCee I have Neptune transiting my 3rd and I’ve experienced that, since this transit began (only 12 years of it to go, lol).

    3 people at work, told me I had said something, and they said I had just said it, too. What they all said I said, felt so weird and out of character for me, I didn’t believe it either.
    3 against one…ugh.

    I sincerely hope I still have my mind when this transit is over. I’ve already seen what kind of havoc it can create, especially when trying to navigate unsavoury energy.

  13. I’ve learned that my definition of a lie differs from that of a lot of people. To me, a lie is when someone tells you something to deliberately deceive you. Or, when someone omits something to keep you from knowing the whole truth. OR, when someone tells you something that is manipulative. In that case, what they are saying might be the truth, but they are telling you to get a certain reaction.

  14. Whether someone is lying maliciously or unconsciously, I write the person off as unreliable. I can be compassionate and forgiving, but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna put my ass on the line.

  15. And as someone with natal Mercury square Neptune, I give a LOT of room for an individual’s rose-tinted version of reality. That’s a natural defense mechanism and I don’t begrudge it. But if goes over the top and becomes a liability, I honestly want nothing to do with the person.

  16. @Namaste “…he’d use the truth to mislead”.

    I have Mercury in the 8th in Leo trine Neptune in the 12th in Sag. I also do this. I’m really good at it. I try not to do it, but I still catch myself. Although what I will be saying is, in fact, the truth, I’m never quite sure if I’m manipulating that truth to get someone to agree with me, or if I truly feel that what I’m saying and how I feel is justified. I try to point out my perspective – and call it as such – and also point out the other perspective to make sure I’m not skewing things my way.

    …but, like I said, I’m very good at doing this… so good, in fact, that I even fool myself.

  17. Someone just recently said to me, flat-out: “Ommission is not lying.”

    I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. OK…is it still deception?

    Uhhh…yeah. We semanticked around until we came to an acceptable conclusion, along the lines of “in the same zoo but not the same animal”.

    Also bug-eyed re: “It does bug me when people create a bunch of user names on the boards and/or talk to themselves in threads though.”

    O_0

    And I thought I was a loon. Sheesh.

  18. In my estimation I think most people lie because they would rather cut their arm off than admit they were wrong, made a mistake, or don’t know something. I always get this vibe of desperation from people who frequently lie…they’re desperately trying to cling to an illusion of control.

  19. “I have had people tell me I said ‘this’ and I didn’t in my mind. The two people had no reason to lie but to this day I don’t I think I said what they told me I said”

    I get this a lot from my mom and sister. I figured out that the problem is they don’t listen to the words someone uses, they read the tone and make up whatever words fit the tone they perceived. *nods* It’s a big problem, because if one of them is pissy it doesn’t matter what you say or what tone you use, they’re going to perceive it pissily and therefore accuse you of being an asshole to them. On purpose. Because they need a target. :/

  20. Yes, sometimes it is tone and not paying attention.

    Plus when people tell me that I said something I didn’t think I said it makes me feel like a crazy person. Communication is such a pain sometimes.

  21. I think as long as one keeps one interests ‘front and center’ a liar’s lies won’t have the same destructive non-detectable impact.

  22. I have Mercury square Neptune natally (albeit a 10-degree separating orb), and Neptune is currently in my 3rd house.

    Sometimes I feel like I live in my own reality.

  23. I think it can be any of the above. People delude themselves all the time. Or they delude themselves to the fact they aren’t fooling anyone with their lies. Which is painfully embarrassing for the person doing the lying. Some people are just pathological liars whose lies flow from their lips- those are the most dangerous. But there are many other people who are not even aware of lying because their reality is distorted so much, for whatever reason. Neptune. Speaking of, I just realized my Neptune might be conjunct my Mercury. That would explain a whole lot! The conjunction would be 10 degrees apart though, would that count?

  24. I had no idea the extent of the prescription drug issue. I googled and just about fell out of my chair. I guess it’s not something I see or am exposed to in my immediate circle and I guess the ones who are in that “use” category also have other drug issues and so I’d never really separated it out!!! wow!

    As for the multiple personalities on forums.. I’ve been watching that for some time, from the inside, dealing with moderation etc. I find that the ones that won’t follow the rules and that have multiple user names etc. tend to be psychologically unstable. They will go off on someone someday, it’s just a matter of when and which name will be used.

    As for someone lying that doesn’t absolutely know that their lying ie no self-awareness my first question is how much damage is being done to them and to you? If a lot to you then I’d ask them to stop doing the damage and point out to them that it’s damaging. If the damage is just to them then the question is if they’re asking you, as someone close, for help. If not, then I’d only bring it up if it were my life partner, child, parent etc.

  25. I HATE liars. Nothing has ruined my life more throroughly again and again and again. Not just actual lies but also people who lie to themselves.

    When someone lies to you, they take your freedom away. You can’t make a fully cognizant choice based on a false reality — they know that, you dont’.

    Seems to me the best thing to do is stick with people who have a long, strong history of telling the truth.

    As far as crazy people who are unaware they are lying…usually there are trustworthy and untrustworthy crazy people. The schizophrenic who says there are snakes under the bed is usually not lying, he is talking in metaphor. A sociopath, on the other hand, will tell you things specifically crafted for their effect on *you*. They might not know they’re lying and they might not understand their own behavior, but their ultimate goal is to control *your* reality and because of that, control their own.

    Harmless crazy people are not malicious, and they don’t have this impulse in them. More often than not they want you to understand their own story rather than try to create one for you.

    Huge difference.

  26. 10+ years into my last relationship I had a botched surgery which left me with the possible immediate prospect of a hip replacement. It scared the bejesus out of me and also my then partner who envisioned becoming my caretaker. He said whoa and was straightawy outta there …. after having spent years and years being completely and thoroughly disingenuous about his agenda. I mean he acted like he was in it for the long haul and who the eff draws the line at infirmity when we all get old and grey, right?

    Anyhoo. The botched surgery was a blessing – I recovered sufficiently to samba another day and I’m not in some shallow ass relationship anymore as a result.

    Liars lie but if I hadn’t of been willing to compromise right and left to maintain the stupid relationship I’d have never gotten so lost. That’s my story and I take responsibility for my part in the fiasco.

  27. Hmm…liars bugged me for a lying time as I grew up with very crafty types who could get very twisted with the ‘truth’ depending on who it’s protecting. They know the universe doesn’t condone lying, so they can lie with the truth rearranged. Also omission isn’t lying if it’s very deeply covered. I don’t know if it’s pathological, but they will go to the grave with it because it’s how they live.

    So here is where I stand currently (took me forever, I used to twitch at a lie of any kind as a kid):
    – if it’s a white lie and polite, it’s fine.
    – if it’s a mental impairment – pain, medication, severely mentally ill, then leave it for the professionals, protect yourself, and walk away
    – if it’s a temporary impairment – grief, trauma from car accident, then make a note and don’t believe them unless it matches what’s going on. If they recover, I can accept them.
    – if it’s deliberate, but it’s done to protect someone who is unable to be there themselves, it’s okay. I think this is why lawyers and undercover cops get by. They are lying for someone else and the universe doesn’t register this.
    – lies by omission – depends on intent and possible damage.
    – if it’s to protect themselves, figure out which part. If it’s to maintain a boundary, consider the consequences if they didn’t. If it’s to cover up something, depends on how damaging it might be.
    – If they just lie all the time, WALK AWAY.
    – If they make up lies about you, make sure you have documented trail of your life and keep your head above water. They will destroy your life because some lies sound better than the simple truth. And people will buy a good lying abuser’s story than the crying victim’s truth.

    Now if you work with a pathological liar, just look confused. HAHA. “But you said…nevermind.” If you have to talk to them, stick to facts.

  28. I like dorchid’s explain. I do allow latitude for individual’s reality constructs. At least try to. Ya just never know sometimes.

  29. 11th house Leo Mercury square 2nd house Scorpio Neptune is the most exact aspect in my chart, and every challenging aspect is, in my wandering mind, a blessing in disguise, even if you sometimes have to work pretty hard uncovering the blessing.

    When I was younger, it was sometimes quite a challenge to hold a conversation because the things I’d answer seemed so far from the words uttered just one second ago, my mind had made leaps into outer space and made connections that to me were totally obvious, it was only after having to explain the that row of thoughts it became clear to me that other minds work differently.

    I’ve learnt to speak seven languages fluently without any apparent effort, I remember things that people told me 25 years ago as clearly as if it were yesterday, I connect to undercurrents that evade rational minds. But I also almost can’t find my way to the supermarket..

    The big challenge is not to manipulate neither myself nor others, but to use the gift to show different ways to solve a problem that might be blocked to more rational minds.

    I never give solid advice, when I sense something is challenging, I tell stories about myself that often ring a bell and make a topic less dangerous to attack.

    As an artist, it is a great gift, I can tell wild stories, new angles to a theme come flowing to me, I can see different sides and open new worlds to my audiences.

    Many children still believe that I was abducted by pirates when I was seven, learned the pirate trade thoroughly, until they discovered my singing voice and left me at the Royal Academy of Music because they thought I’d do better there than as a pirate. After all, thinking straight will only take you this far…

  30. I hate liars too. The one I’m thinking of laughs when he is caught out and says I take things to seriously. Tsssk. In most cases I think the don’t give a fk.

  31. I have Merc/Neptune. I used to lie all the time as a child. For me it was about shame and wanting to be normal. 4th/10th axis. As I got into my teens, I learned I had nothing to be ashamed of and stopped lying. Actually a blunt Sadge friend said “you don’t have to lie about your family, people know and they don’t care.”

    So, I do think it’s about shame and control.

  32. I’ve had lies told to me and about me for various reasons. I visualize the people who told vicious lies about me driving over a cliff, like in Roadrunner cartoons. People believe what they hear about somebody. The liars have an audience. I think the liars and those who believe bad things they hear have both got some motivation to want to tear down the person that’s being lied about. Then there are those who tell lies just for fun and get a kick of how gullible people are to believe them. By and large, people aren’t very nice to each other.

  33. This is very difficult, can be emotional draining and is painful to watch depending on the person. Yet, so frustrating, nerve edging that you have to wonder how they keep anything possibly straight. Even what day it is.

    If I am on the other side I have to do everything in my power to keep my sanity.

  34. The truth is hard for some. Fantasy is easy and controllable. I work with someone who literally will say “Oh I don’t do that, see what I’d do is…” and then she catches herself because I’m looking right at her with a face that screams “You just did that very thing yesterday morning.” Some people are looking, constantly, to be seen in a certain light. I’m noticing that if an individual has a strong propensity to seek affirmation, they are the biggest liars. The biggest structural trait that supports lying is seeking affirmation or praise. It’s like the two are almost synonymous. Being ridiculously direct and introverted (and having a bro with drug issues) builds a strong liedar.

  35. @Kashmiri

    “have 2 interviews next week. I am not going to play up my talents at all. Facts are facts. Hire me or not. ”

    Exactly. Wish the best for your interviews. Remember, the potential employer may also not be what they seem or express to you so just watch for that also.

    I just had this convo at the office last week. I don’t like this aspect combo either, it is very much like a Merc rx, and there is something big, with a cert, coming in supposedly next week from a small business that I’ve been having some doubts about their ‘quality control’ on their products. For some reason, this has been bothering me (receiving their product next week) and I think I’m going to have an outside appraisal done separately. Wow, we’ve been hammered with these strong aspects lately. Can’t take it anymore.

  36. My overall view of this is that it’s complicated.

    Walking away is good. But if you are going to go there, it is case by case. What a sticky web. I followed a case once and what lurks at the bottom of it all wasn’t pretty. And yes kr, everybody else knew, but nobody told me because I was a member of the liar’s clan. What kr said about shame and guilt, was definitely true in this particular case.

  37. See, I don’t want to associate with a liar. I just don’t. But without actually knowing the level of awareness, I’m stuck. I am the “if you don’t know, do nothing” mode.

  38. @elsa . . . I can see doing nothing because if it doesn’t exist why bring a monster to life.

    I need to make an adjustment on my earlier entry. My liar was a product of guilt and shame. Not shame and guilt. I think they are two different birds.

  39. I was in a 6-year relationship with someone who told white lies. I put up with him because I knew he had a good heart. I trusted him with my son, know what I mean? But it degrades. Slowly and surely. I’d imagine it’s like dating someone with Parkinson’s. If you stay in it, you’ve gotta be sure what you’re sacrificing. Cause there is definitely a sacrifice to be made by engaging with a liar.

  40. Here’s a weird thought: Could a Merc/Neptune person potentially become a really good fiction writer?

    Think about it. In order to write good fiction, you have to be able to craft a story. Lie on paper, IOW. But it’s a positive use of the energy.

  41. @Mads You just reminded me that I am TERRIBLE at holding a verbal conversation. 🙂

    I’ve had someone sit down with me and explain to me how often I go off on tangents–sometimes ones that have little to do with the discussion! It’s like people are discussing apples and I give an example of….an orange. Where does the orange even enter the dialogue?! It’s like I have this crazy logic to connecting things. I probably do it here too and leave people going…..”Huh…?” It’s crazymaking, for me and for them.

  42. I experienced a devastating lie that lasted 7 years. Someone pretended to be deathly ill and stole my love and kindness. Then another person defamed me at the same time. Since two people who did not know each other did this to me in the same time frame in completely different ways, I thought that maybe this might be a shadow aspect of my own chart and nature. Any thoughts?

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